*Looking up length of drive to Oklahoma*

Ping!

What these threads honestly tell us the most, is how many ops there are out there; which is great.

No, but I go get a wet and a dry paper towel to clean the little shelf where we set our drinks. Don't want T's hand to get dirty.

I'm going to side with no... It's up to the op to decide how they want it set up.

I get the arguments against leveling games on location, but goddamn sometimes it's so bad that it would be impossible to make it worse. I have on occasion gotten on my hands and knees and leveled a game. It has to be pretty bad though.

have you met my friend?

https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/bangerjay

Anymore I play very few pins on route that need to be leveled. There is 1 place I play out of town that has all of the new sterns but they aren’t well taken care of. I only go for the antique Weller for ~$10 a pour and great burgers or dogs. The last time I was there GOTG was literally on 3 legs. I did what I could to at least get it stable between adjusting the levelers and adding some napkins.
As long as a pin is stable I will adapt my playing style to how the pin is sitting.

If it's really bad, I'll adjust it and if the glass is really dirty, I'll clean it. If I can tell the machine is from an operator who takes care of there stuff, then I probably won't mess with it and just tell the location. There's a lot of places out there that don't touch or maintain they're machines at all. In those kind of places you are only helping them, because they don't know any better.

Depends on how badly unlevel the game is. I was at Blainebrook recently and the Metallica was horribly unlevel. After a few drinks my give a shit really goes away and I couldn't help but fix the damn thing. I'm very meticulous when it comes to my games and if a light bulb is out it will drive me nuts. So playing on location is tough for me. But if its a simple thing like throwing a coaster folded up under a leg to help out? I'm going to do so. Metallica is too good to be unlevel.

I'm an operator, I do it for my operator customers and occasionally for other operators out of habit.

I've had someone do this and it made the game super wobbly, kind of pissed me off. I started taking those bubble levels out of my games after that, since I prefer getting at or around 7 degrees.

on the other hand I have been tempted to fix other ops games, but then concluded its not my business and stopped going to that location.

The main thing is it's a liability, whether you get hurt some how or you break the game, chances are it won't be right anyway.

Smart move, Sir.

Not of it's too steep our not steep enough to my liking, or it's a little too the left or right.
I do however help when it's so unlevel the operator can't possibly be happy with it , and the game would get damage sooner because the game mostly rests on only 3 legs.

How about those rubber feet that go under the legs to prevent them from being slid? I've thought they would be good on location to keep them in place, i figure most level issues arise from slide saves or death saves. I host a tournament at a location and i do level the front legs from time to time because the techs do not even play pinball so they don't get it. I had to diagnose star wars' bad opto sensor on the hoth shot recently, he was ready to pull the game from location and replace a board.. Im like dude its probably just this opto sensor. Game works fine now

At a show, no. At a bar, put a couple of those paper bar coasters under the low leg. Just don't bump the cabinet into anything while doing it.

At SFGE this year I had someone constantly adjusting Spaceballs, and they were intentionally leaning it to the right, a lot. I adjusted it back 3 or 4 times then just gave up.

Was also amazed at the number of people that think it's ok to power cycle someone else's game at a show.

I’ve done it a a handful of times and it was to simply put the front on the game on my knee and give one leg leveler a few turns one way or the other.

There was exactly one instance where i got under the game and messed with the back legs. It was an Addams family where all 4 legs were so bad that it was impossible for all 4 to be touching the ground at once.

At ReplayFX yesterday, there was a Cyclone that was insanely out of level. It had an out of order sign that said, "whomever leveled this, is a moron". A bit extreme, but the next time I went past it, it was leveled.

Do you know why they were doing it?

My league location is a place that cares about the silver ball, and they have as many or more pins than vids. There's a logbook of pinball issues you can report and they get fixed.
As a photographer who sometimes plays pinball, I might carry a camera tripod hotshoe with a small bubble stick (like in a straight edge) that I can set on the glass near the lockdown bar if I suspect a table is off level.
As for trying to level games myself, probably not, at least where the games are cared for, and if they're not they're probably unplayable for other reasons.

Saw this so many times it pissed me off. Actually asked one guy if it belong to him. He said no and i told him to leave someone elses shit alone. He actually got upset and went to another game.

Not sure. Usually a problem I guess? I saw it several times where it was because a ball was stuck and the people thought power cycling might help or something?

Oh i meant power cycling. Now that I think of it, it was probably because of Jackwagons pumping 4 player games.

Hah I just realized that and edited my post. Could have been because of 4 player games for sure, but most games have the "hold start for reset" function right?

You are supposed to level a game from the playfield. So people are leveling other peoples games from the glass?

I’ll level a game on location if it is bad enough, because I am paying money and I want the full experience. I’ll complain to management if the pitch is off. Won’t adjust any show games or those in private collections.

Pinball is built for public play. Someone adjusting a leg leveler shouldn't rise to same level of offense as assault and battery. Can’t be worried about whether leveling the occasional pin is right or not. I’ll continue doing it until shot dead, and then God can judge me.

No touchy-touchy of others machines.

i fix that shit if i wanna play the game.

I hate it when OPs don't level machines correctly on purpose to try to compensate for some defect, like a scoop that tends to shoot SDTM, or because the game plays too long.

To actually change the leveling, that is wrong. If the machine rocks and you are just making it steady, then that is fine. It is just about impossible to play a game that is rocking on you.

I don't know how off level a machine would have to be to get me to crawl under it at a bar.

Level that sob!

My games on location would never be so far out of level side-to-side that anyone would try to fix them in that direction. And if they were, please do fix it!

But, I removed all the bubble levels because occasionally someone would come jack up the front legs to center the bubble, and then it would play slow, flat, and terribly. Dear person: you've made it worse and are not the People's Hero. I've seen someone walk up to a game, look at the bubble level, and then say to their friend "this isn't level" as a way to brag.

PSA: YOU CANNOT TRUST THE BUBBLE LEVEL. If you center the bubble on most NIB games, your game is now way below the pitch at which it was designed for.

Anyway, I have steepened games on location that were unbearably flat. I justify it by telling myself that the operator set it up correctly but some other person came in, looked at the bubble level, and made a stupid adjustment on their own.

I've be doing that since I first hit the arcades in the mid 70's.

I don't mind doing the arcade owners job that should have been done during initial set up.

I just do the side to side levelers though mostly. Unless there is no pitch at all on the game then that's another matter.

I use the matchbook cover trick instead of adjusting the levelers most times though.

I've leveled a game on location more than once. When a game is leaning left or right significantly, it can usually be improved with a couple twists (if it's not rusted up). I'm not going more than that because it's not worth my time, but I also do not trust any of the operators around here to know what level means when they don't even know what a software update is.

As far as power cycling goes... I'm also surprised by the "hands off" advice. I power cycled Skateball on Saturday at ReplayFX. The game was in a Tilt state and wouldn't resolve because the ball was trapped under the upper flipper. The flipper can't be moved because it's in Tilt, so the ball will not reach the drain. I power cycled the game, started a new game, raised the flipper and skillfully nudged the ball out from being stuck.

Do it all the time, guys throw our games around a lot on location.
Almost every week a game needs an adjustment.
We have our tilts set up to discourage it mostly.
But when they lose a ball they rage tilt anyway (losers) Lol.
Sometimes moving a game just an inch or two is enough to throw off the side to side movement of the ball.

Owners are always told before hand, usually don't care cause they are busy already.

Do not adjust another man's game. Just like in golf "play it as it lies".

If it’s the front legs that need adjusting then yes I will level them. If it’s the back legs then I call or leave a note for the op.
Also want to tank who ever leveled my game at the York show last year. It was a bit wobbly but had to leave. Came back and the game was spot on level.

Leg levelers should be locked down with the nut so that that game can't be messed with or go out of level. I'm amazed how many ops don't do this.

To all the ops out there, especially if your games are on a hard surface, YOU HAVE TO LOCK DOWN THE LEG LEVELERS WITH THE NUTS. If you don't, the games go out of level when they are shoved around. The levelers spin when the game is shoved. Try it and watch.

I lock down all my games tight. I have never, NEVER had to go back and readjust a game due to it being shoved around. Only time I've ever had to readjust is when I blew it when setting up the game and didn't get it level.

I'm an operator.

Do not adjust leg levelers - it's not your fucking machine.

Something not to your liking? Report it, play another machine, go somewhere else, or buy your own. Those are your options.

Some other things I wish "helpful" people would stop doing:
Turning off the power - that just delays a fix because I won't know about it
Power cycling - it can damage the machine
Putting tape or handmade signs on a machine you think is broken - this just delays a fix because again I won't know about it
Physically lifting up the machine or nudging so hard the machine moves from where its legs are - now I have to RELEVEL it, yes one inch to the left makes a difference on a worn wood floor

This should be common sense, people.

Make your fucking tilt tighter

Do you put a napkin under a wobbly table at a restaurant? I sure as shit do.

Someone stole one of my leveling feet at TPF. I saw people playing the game the whole show, so I assumed nothing was wrong with it. That was until we took it apart and found one of the feet missing. So they took the leg leveler off and releveled the machine somewhat so it wasn't teetering.
It's stuff like that, that makes me not want to take anymore games to shows for public play.

unreal! Seems like a lot of work for a few dollar part. People are so fucked!

Since when can power cycling damage a pinball machine?

Can happen. Especially at power up is when things can happen.

On my original AFM I had a customer win a bunch of games and went to cancel them off. Started the games. Turned the game off. Turned it back on. Blew a few fuses.

I prefer that my customers leave me do anything that needs doing. Then I won't blame them.

LTG : )

Gotta be honest... I'm firmly in the "don't touch my stuff" camp.
That said; I have been known to be so exhausted or constrained for time after setting up my machines at TPF (I bring them all - at least 5 machines) ... that I simply forget to check for levelness. Usually; I do play at least one game after setting them up and if there is a gross level issue I fix it.
That said; I would really be ok with an attendee taking matters into their own hands - so to speak.
As long as the Attendee is willing to take the risk of liability. That is if they damage the machine; they have some 'splainin' to do.
That said; its just wiser to leave me a post-it-note... or tap me on the shoulder.

That said; Turning off a malfunctioning game is the only "real" way to let the owner know it's broken beyond use. IE a stuck ball which prevent continuing game play... or non-functioning flippers. I check on my machines regularly; but do not play them. An "off" machine is the only way I know for sure there is an issue.

Put a sugar packet underneath it
Lol

Personally I'd rather the patron turn the power off, at least then I'd know something is wrong with a particular machine. When staff doesn't report it, it can get frustrating. I usually rely pretty heavily on payouts and regulars.

Yep, me too.

I'd rather have the game off and I don't know about it, than have it turned on and stealing quarters from people as an unplayable game. The latter is much worse for your reputation and customer service.