(Topic ID: 233080)

Is it OK to level games on location?


By pinlink

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 63 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by sven
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    Topic poll

    “Is it OK to level games on location?”

    • Yes 59 votes
      46%
    • No 60 votes
      47%
    • Other 8 votes
      6%

    (127 votes)

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    There are 63 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 6 months ago

    What do you think?

    If you are at a bar/arcade/show and a game is noticeably un-level, is it OK to crawl under the game and try to level it out yourself?

    I have done this a few times at our local arcade, and never saw the harm in it. But recently I witnessed someone do this, and another league member went on for a while about how you should never "adjust" someone else's machine. It was debated for a while and would like to hear others' opinions on the subject.

    11
    #2 6 months ago

    There's always a lot of back and forth on these questions as some people are very "don't touch anyone elses stuff" and some other people are more "set up your game correctly."

    At a bar/arcade I do if it's really bad.
    At shows, it's kind of another thing because people have gone out of their way to bring them and probably don't want people dicking around with them.
    If it's someone's house I would do it every time they left the room to fuck with them.

    #3 6 months ago

    no

    #4 6 months ago

    I'm more in the camp of, "If it's not yours don't touch it". I think most here know what they are doing, but if some random person sees you doing that then they might be more open to adjusting a game themselves. Report it to the owner of the establishment and move along. Having said that, I've done it on occasion.

    #5 6 months ago

    Not your game. I'd leave it alone. Complain to the location or game operator, yes. Let them check.

    And unless you can take the glass off and have a level, there is always the chance you are wrong. Or someone else is. And with everybody playing with it, it will only get worse if everybody adjusts it to their thinking.

    LTG : )

    #6 6 months ago

    The problem with just letting the operator know, is that nothing changes...ever. Some of the games on location will be un-level for months and we let them know about once a week and nothing changes. Sooner or later you just have to take it upon yourself to improve their games. Otherwise, a lot of us just wouldn't play. It's that bad.

    #7 6 months ago

    I played a WOZ that was legit on 3 legs. I was applying constant pressure to keep it level. I wanted to adjust it so bad. I would say the answer is "no", but if I am putting in quarters I would shim up one of the front legs with a coaster or something to even it out if there was one around. I wouldn't really crawl around under the machine. I am also not too picky so if it is bugging me it is pretty bad.

    #8 6 months ago
    Quoted from pinlink:

    The problem with just letting the operator know, is that nothing changes...ever...

    The issue is with the timing of this conversation.
    Pinsiders now think location games are games lovingly brought in from an owners home to help the pinball community Well that isn't true, and not every bar is going to have LTG running the place. There are still old school ops out there that just collect cash, it's a business, and I'm helping myself to a better playing game to get my monies worth.

    Quoted from QuietEarp:

    but if I am putting in quarters I would shim up one of the front legs with a coaster or something to even it out...

    Exactly, throw the schnapster bottle cap under there. Act liek you dropped a quarter, give the leg a couple rotations. I don;t mean be a pretentious prick and level each leg back and forth

    #9 6 months ago

    I'm in the "No" camp as well. Having a number of games on route I realize they can get un-leveled at times but a quick call and we take care of it. We've had it happen a few times where someone "leveled" the game by taking the back legs all the way down. Lame.

    #10 6 months ago
    Quoted from u2sean:

    We've had it happen a few times where someone "leveled" the game by taking the back legs all the way down.

    Yeah I thought it was ASSumed that's not what we were talking aboot. Pitch of a game is up to the Op just like other difficulty settings.

    #11 6 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    the schnapster

    The Schnapster!

    #12 6 months ago

    Poll Added

    #13 6 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Yeah I thought it was ASSumed that's not what we were talking aboot. Pitch of a game is up to the Op just like other difficulty settings.

    When someone else levels games on location all bets are off. If one rear leg happened to drop down you can't ASSume they're going to level it out by raising it back up.

    #14 6 months ago
    Quoted from u2sean:I'm in the "No" camp as well. Having a number of games on route I realize they can get un-leveled at times but a quick call and we take care of it. We've had it happen a few times where someone "leveled" the game by taking the back legs all the way down. Lame.

    Well said!
    OP, Not all operators ignore the requests and needs of their customers. Assuming all operators let all issues go that unnoticed is offending to those of us which take great pride in our craft. Unless you’ve lived the life, it’s hard to illustrate how difficult and trying being an amusement, music and vending operator is.

    #15 6 months ago
    Quoted from pinlink:

    The problem with just letting the operator know, is that nothing changes...ever.

    Quite supporting operators who don't care about their customers.

    LTG : )

    #16 6 months ago

    Sure, just make sure someone is watching out and/or blocking the staffs view beforehand

    #17 6 months ago

    I’ve been tempted too before but most the time it’s minor enough to notice and affect play, however not bad enough to really get me down on the floor to fix it. I played a Beatles, deadpool on location, perfectly level. Then a Guardians literally touching Deadpool that had a mean left lean to it. I left it alone seeing as the others were perfectly level and great condition, so that gives me the impression that the operator cares and will probably take care of it/notice it next time around.

    #18 6 months ago

    I've been known to grab a beer coaster to balance a game when it's off significantly. If they're that poorly balanced, the owner/operator don't care much about it, and giving feedback is a waste of time.

    I've been at places that should know better (Seattle Pinball Museum) and politely told them when game is badly off and receive stupid excuses like, (chuckle) "Yes, the floors in here are pretty old and uneven" as though 4 independently-adjustable feet can't address that.

    #19 6 months ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    I've been at places that should know better (Seattle Pinball Museum) and politely told them when game is badly off and receive stupid excuses like, (chuckle) "Yes, the floors in here are pretty old and uneven" as though 4 independently-adjustable feet can't address that.

    Not so much - if the floor's that wacky, moving a machine a couple of inches one way or another can significantly alter the level. I owned an arcade like that once; we wound up (subtly) marking the leg locations, so we could move them back to their proper (level) places when they got shoved around.

    #20 6 months ago

    I voted yes. If nothing else, we are all part of the extended community, and if taking five minutes to level out a game is going to be good for your experience, and all the other people after you, then go for it.

    So while I think its ok to do, I would never care enough to do it. The bigger concern I have are operators who don't care enough to maintain their games or do things so obviously basic. There is a poor Monster Bash at a pizza parlor with a black play field and about 25% of the lamps out. Then at this retro bar there is another Addams Family all LEDd out, but the upper right flipper lacks the power to get the ball up the left ramp. Needs a rebuild.

    #21 6 months ago

    If the game is off balance then 100% I'm fixing it, if the game is set to such a bad pitch that it plays slower than old people fuck then yes I'll adjust it. If the OP is that much of a douchebag that he doesn't set his pins up correctly and still wants to take peoples money well then The Hell With Him. Oh yeah.

    #22 6 months ago

    I’ve been tempted, but crawling on the floor of a barcade/bar...I’ll pass. It sucks, but I usually just don’t play it. If it’s always bad, I might say something, but I doubt the guy behind the bar passes along the message.

    #23 6 months ago
    Quoted from JWJr:

    Not so much - if the floor's that wacky, moving a machine a couple of inches one way or another can significantly alter the level. I owned an arcade like that once; we wound up (subtly) marking the leg locations, so we could move them back to their proper (level) places when they got shoved around.

    Good for you at least you tried to address it, but don't know what that has to do with my experience at a different place: are you familiar with the floors there too? It was clear to me when I was talking to them, they just didn't care. IE. used it as an excuse to not make an effort.

    #24 6 months ago

    I would say no. It not mine however, if something in the machine is being damaged I will turn if off then tell someone.

    #25 6 months ago

    either call the operator, dont feed the game, or use coasters

    i would not adjust the levelers

    #26 6 months ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    If the game is off balance then 100% I'm fixing it, if the game is set to such a bad pitch that it plays slower than old people fuck then yes I'll adjust it. If the OP is that much of a douchebag that he doesn't set his pins up correctly and still wants to take peoples money well then The Hell With Him. Oh yeah.

    Then it’s probably good that you’re in Canada, because if you come to Oklahoma and touch this douchebag’s route machines, you’ll probably need a wheel chair to board a plane back...

    Seriously, that’s uncalled for. As operators, we do our best. We can’t level every game every day. Sorry that if you call our service line we don’t send someone or come out personally while you’re there to level the game for you. I know it’s frustrating but we have other locations, other equipment and other issues to resolve.

    #27 6 months ago
    Quoted from dnapac:

    I’ve been tempted, but crawling on the floor of a barcade/bar...I’ll pass. It sucks, but I usually just don’t play it. If it’s always bad, I might say something, but I doubt the guy behind the bar passes along the message.

    There’s a good point being made here...rarely do all issues reported to bar/location staff get passed on to the operator. We tend to not schedule anything for Friday because we’ll receive 2-3 calls first thing Friday morning saying “....it’s been down all week and we need it for the weekend.”

    #28 6 months ago

    I’d say generally no .. but I have been in a couple locations where the games were so off, there was one or more leveler not even -touching- the floor. That seems bad. So I fixed it

    #29 6 months ago

    Our local operator is the best and very receptive to feedback but I vote no as well. If it's not mine I don't touch it. If it remains bad after I tell someone I don't feed the machine anymore end of story.

    #30 6 months ago

    Level it!

    #31 6 months ago

    In my experience, the ones who complain about games not being level, are the same ones who yank the machine all over trying to save an outlane drain, double danger and all.

    Hey jackhat, the machine was level until it got moved 18 inches to the left by your failed attempt at saving your 3rd ball and your 3 million score game on MET.

    The floor was poured in 1968. Probably used an eye level and called it a day.

    #32 6 months ago

    In my experience, the ones who whine about having to level their machines are the same ones who are too lazy to keep their machines in good condition. They're usually filthy, broken switches, rotting rubbers. They could care less about their customer's experience, they just want your money.

    Hey punk, machines need regular attention, cleaning, and leveling. But these operators only know how to empty a coinbox, nothing more.

    Who knew this is such a volatile topic! Pinside rumble, woohoo!

    Ha, just playing along...

    #33 6 months ago

    Hell I can't even move a game to the other side of the room at home and make it play the same. I can put the level on it and adjust all day and never get it "just right" again. I definitely ain't crawling on some nasty floor.

    #34 6 months ago
    Quoted from Crashnburn:

    I would say no. It not mine however, if something in the machine is being damaged I will turn if off then tell someone.

    Ahhhh shiiiiiiit. THat's apparently like way worse!

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/do-you-think-it-should-be-shutdown

    Quoted from ryanbrooks:

    because if you come to Oklahoma and touch this douchebag’s route machines, you’ll probably need a wheel chair to board a plane back...

    Wow, tough love for the 10 people in Oklahoma I mean at least in your little scenario you let him live; too kind.

    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    Who knew this is such a volatile topic! Pinside rumble, woohoo!

    I did It';s a classic Pinside anger-fest; it's great

    #35 6 months ago

    Unmentioned point here: If there's a league or tournament event running while you're fiddling with the game, that's really unfair to people competing to have it suddenly change. I voted other because I have no shame asking the location if it's okay. If they say yes or offer to do it for me, then great...otherwise, I don't want to put myself in a liability situation for damaging the game, and there's freakin' cameras everywhere now.

    #36 6 months ago

    ... did you hear about the guy that damaged the new Beatles machine over there? Apparently he was trying to level the game....and to top it off, the whole thing was caught on tape...

    #37 6 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Ahhhh shiiiiiiit. THat's apparently like way worse!
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/do-you-think-it-should-be-shutdown

    Wow, tough love for the 10 people in Oklahoma I mean at least in your little scenario you let him live; too kind.

    I did It';s a classic Pinside anger-fest; it's great

    There’s only 9 of us here and 4 of us are kissing cousins

    #38 6 months ago

    I’ve done it - but I wouldn’t be offended or surprised if someone got super pissed at me.

    Fact is you almost always need tools to level a game on location anyway so it’s usually pointless (tight bolts/rust). You can do the drink coaster thing too but that’s usually a dumb endeavor also.

    #39 6 months ago

    I put nuts on both sides of my leg levelers so they don’t move from tournament players throwing a hissy fit and shoving my shit around

    All that does is teach bros in the bar that they can do it, too, and then everyone is being an ape.

    #40 6 months ago

    You can’t properly level a machine with the glass on for one. Secondly, not your machine, don’t adjust it. Third, if an operator is to lazy to fix it, stop supporting his location.

    If I were to speculate, I’d say a location that had unkept pins probably wouldn’t care or even notice is somebody adjusted it, if that’s the case though, why pump money into garbage wagons? On the other hand, if the pins are super clean/well maintained etc., the operator is probably going to loose his shit over it. Either way, it’s not worth messing with, either advise and move to another pin or location.

    #41 6 months ago
    Quoted from ryanbrooks:

    Then it’s probably good that you’re in Canada, because if you come to Oklahoma and touch this douchebag’s route machines, you’ll probably need a wheel chair to board a plane back..

    Thats highly doubtful and one way to avoid any of this is to take 2 min and make sure the game is set up properly. Believe me sir people in Canada do not fear the Oklahomans.

    #42 6 months ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Thats highly doubtful and one way to avoid any of this is to take 2 min and make sure the game is set up properly. Believe me sir people in Canada do not fear the Oklahomans.

    I wasn’t trying to make you fear me or act like a bad ass. I was using the same reckless wording you did in stereotyping all operators as lazy, inattentive assholes that could care less about their customers. So, please don’t call me “sir” now to show any respect, because your prior statements showed none. You know, for contininuity purposes.

    #43 6 months ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    Thats highly doubtful and one way to avoid any of this is to take 2 min and make sure the game is set up properly. Believe me sir people in Canada do not fear the Oklahomans.

    giphy.gif
    #44 6 months ago

    No. The levels on Stern games are not tested at the factory and unless you have a level and a key to get into the game to level the okay field , unless the game is unbalanced leave your grubby hands off of my games. I often take the level off

    #45 6 months ago

    Go for it. I have people “level” my games on location all the time. Usually some combination of back legs jacked all the way down, front jacked all the way up, leaning hard to left or right... Id love it if they actually were lvld correctly when i get to my locations

    #46 6 months ago
    Quoted from QuietEarp:

    The Schnapster!

    Stoned age?

    #47 6 months ago
    Quoted from ryanbrooks:

    I wasn’t trying to make you fear me or act like a bad ass. I was using the same reckless wording you did in stereotyping all operators as lazy, inattentive assholes that could care less about their customers. So, please don’t call me “sir” now to show any respect, because your prior statements showed none. You know, for contininuity purposes.

    What? Listen if you set a pin properly on day 1 unless someone else screws around with it then it should maintain a good level, at no point did I say all operators and the few that I know who have many many pins on location keep them in excelent working order with good playability but thats not always the case, you and I both know it. By the way I fear no one and whats wrong with being a bad ass, I hope u are.

    #48 6 months ago

    Nope, not yours..play it crooked or move on.. Do you clean the dirty taps at the bar, restock the urinal cake in the pisser? No

    #49 6 months ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    What? Listen if you set a pin properly on day 1 unless someone else screws around with it then it should maintain a good level, at no point did I say all operators and the few that I know who have many many pins on location keep them in excelent working order with good playability but thats not always the case, you and I both know it. By the way I fear no one and whats wrong with being a bad ass, I hope u are.

    Since I’m in a battle of words with a bad ass, I’m going to just tap out now before I get hurt.

    #50 6 months ago

    NO! As an operator, when people tell me items are not working we fix it. If they don't fix it, take your business elsewhere.

    The Playfield is often a different level than the cabinet, so it is not always a good indicator of game level. I have been to places, where I marked the legs on the floor. An inch to the left and the game was out of level one way. An inch the other way it was sloping the other. Before each league night, I would move game back to the marked location.

    I would also have people tell me the game was not level, because of the slope "bubble" was not in the middle and try to adjust legs up or down with coasters. Very annoying to have people moving a pinball machine worth thousands of $$!

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