(Topic ID: 212796)

Is it normal to have a new PF have planking?

By Fordiesel69

5 years ago


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    There are 224 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
    #151 5 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    The world must be a wonderful place when looking through those CGC Diffuser glasses.

    Stern, JJP, CGC, I dont have any favorites or any favoritism intended.

    I have dealt with all of them.

    I think for the most part they all do a pretty good job in a pretty rough world.

    Dont get me wrong, I sympathize with the 1 in 1000 or 1 in 1500 guys that have serious problems but, again its unfair to make it seem that 100% of all transactions are troublesome or bad.

    This would be from any manufacturer be it a pinball machine or a any consumer level item.

    #152 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    This is not true at all. Very few populated playfields have been issued by anyone to anyone.
    It is very individualised as far as service as its a very expensive option.
    But then very few games have needed this drastic of a repair.
    However insert ghosting will get you a replacement playfield in all cases, from all manufactureres, just ask them or send in a ticket.
    The Distributor will help with installing the replacement playfield in most cases, if they are worth their business.
    Most distributors really want your repeat business and will work hard to insure it.
    The distributors generally handle the warranty work issues for you as part of their agreement with manufactureres, much like car dealers.
    A car manufacturer will not send you a replacement car if the paint has lifting or bubbling issues.
    The statement "unlike CGC" is complete hogwash.

    Not hog wash as it is true. Please let me know of one populated playfeild they have sent. My experience was horrible. Stern has been great. I never have had a major with JJP but on woz light boards they have been great.

    #153 5 years ago
    Quoted from JJHLH:

    I also think you are incorrect. We know the ghosting issues with GB largely went away starting around Sept 2016 (although a few remaining defective playfields seemed to pop up occasionally, perhaps from leftover stock that was used). We also know for a fact that CGC/Churchill were the ones making the playfields after the issue was solved based on photos from this article published in Oct 2016:
    http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/churchill/index.html
    I followed this very closely as I had a nib GB Premium on order and was understandably concerned about it. My machine was delivered in Dec 2016. The playfield was made by CGC/Churchill and was perfect. CGC has been in the playfield business for decades. It’s highly unlikely they would change their process since it’s already generally proven. It would make more sense that Stern tried to go with a different playfield producer early on once CGC announced they would be manufacturing their own games and would therefore be a competitor. This argument is supported by others who at the time claim that FUN was the manufacturer producing the faulty GB playfields (different from the TX company that sells games and are great).

    I believe Churchill made all the GB playfeilds. They made mine it was August 2016.

    #154 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    The distributors I talked to will do whatever work is needed on their end as required by the manufacturer.
    If you contact the manufacturer they will ask you if you talked to the distributor on whatever issue you have first.
    If the distributor is a piece of crap, and will do nothing to help you after the sale, then the manufacturer will try to help you out if you have a little patience.
    We will all know if the distributer isn't worth dealing with on this forum
    As far as onwallst issues with his game, Im skepitcal if it ever happened at all. He has not shown any proof that his distributor wouldn't help him out or that he even sent in a ticket to CGC to get any resolution at all.
    If his distributer wouldnt help him on a new game, I would like to know who it was and never deal with them.
    CGC does not sell direct.
    He could have gotten a replacement playfield blank any time he wanted, just send in a ticket.
    I would very much like to see a capture of the ticket he sent in, if he even did it at all.
    The issues that were fully documented have all gone up in smoke under even the slightest scrutiny.
    So Im skeptical that any of the issues mentioned in that thread ever happened at all, and might just be mindless trolling.
    So again, a lot of all of that was just hogwash in my view of it.

    Lol I posted my ticket number and all was documented even phone conversations. I was also a MMr LE orginal owner and big CGC supporter. My distributor was great but can only do so much as warranty through CGC. Water under the bridge as they don’t have honor as game was sold only manufacture that warrants on the orginal owner. All I did was state the facts. If it was replaced that would have posted to as would have been acceptable. Are you a lover of their work including their first title?That game was great? . Looking through that difusser kit lenses some wear. Someone has to know where the current playfeilds for stern or being made or where the wood is coming from? Not hearsay but facts.

    15
    #155 5 years ago
    Quoted from maestro:

    As a heart attack. Maybe you thought I was suggesting they charge more than what they charge now for the better quality wood. Nope. I'm suggesting they include the better quality wood for their LE's. Use the "ribbing" wood for the rest or some sort of pricing tier as this. Maybe this would justify the extra cost of the LE a bit? Of course we'd all rather see them use the best wood on all tier games. I definitely don't care to see NIB prices go up more than they are now. But prices will continue to go up justified or not as long as people pay.

    All playfields should be top notch quality period. The playfield is the main part of a pinball machine that should never ever be compromised when it comes to quality. You are acting like a Pro model pinball machine is not expensive or something. These games cost over 5 thousand dollars, that is a shitload of money! When you buy a Premium or a LE model you are paying for add on features and one of the features should never be a higher quality playfield. For you to even suggest that is just not a good thing at all. All playfields on all models should be top notch quality period.

    #156 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    All playfields should be top notch quality period. The playfield is the main part of a pinball machine that should never ever be compromised when it comes to quality. You are acting like a Pro model pinball machine is not expensive or something. These games cost over 5 thousand dollars, that is a shitload of money! When you buy a Premium or a LE model you are paying for add on features and one of the features should never be a higher quality playfield. For you to even suggest that is just not a good thing at all. All playfields on all models should be top notch quality period.

    Well said.

    #157 5 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    he world must be a wonderful place when looking through those CGC Diffuser glasses

    Holy Shit thats funny! LOL

    #158 5 years ago

    As posted on the first page:
    Spooky owners, any playfield issues??
    Crickets!!!
    If there was, Spooky would make it right.
    Stern is quantity.
    Spooky is quality.
    Your money, spend it as you wish.

    #159 5 years ago
    Quoted from gjm:

    As posted on the first page:
    Spooky owners, any playfield issues??
    Crickets!!!
    If there was, Spooky would make it right.
    Stern is quantity.
    Spooky is quality.
    Your money, spend it as you wish.

    I agree spooky seems to have it. Kudos to them!

    #160 5 years ago
    Quoted from gjm:

    As posted on the first page:
    Spooky owners, any playfield issues??
    Crickets!!!
    If there was, Spooky would make it right.
    Stern is quantity.
    Spooky is quality.
    Your money, spend it as you wish.

    Spooky doesn't make their own playfields so it could happen to them also just as easy. Stern, CGC, and JJP all three have had some playfield issues. This time next year Stern could have awesome playfields and Spooky could be having problems. When you have to rely on another company to give you quality materials alot of bad things can happen to your business in a hurry.

    Also you must remember that Stern produces far more games than anyone else so you are naturally going to hear more complaints about them. That still doesn't make it ok but its just the truth.

    #161 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Stern, JJP, CGC, I dont have any favorites or any favoritism intended.
    I have dealt with all of them.
    I think for the most part they all do a pretty good job in a pretty rough world.
    Dont get me wrong, I sympathize with the 1 in 1000 or 1 in 1500 guys that have serious problems but, again its unfair to make it seem that 100% of all transactions are troublesome or bad.
    This would be from any manufacturer be it a pinball machine or a any consumer level item.

    Well said and what really matters in the end is if the company does the right thing and replaces whatever is defective.

    #162 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    Spooky doesn't make their own playfields so it could happen to them also just as easy. Stern, CGC, and JJP all three have had some playfield issues. This time next year Stern could have awesome playfields and Spooky could be having problems. When you have to rely on another company to give you quality materials alot of bad things can happen to your business in a hurry.
    Also you must remember that Stern produces far more games than anyone else so you are naturally going to hear more complaints about them. That still doesn't make it ok but its just the truth.

    I agree stern produces more than probably the others combined in one year. The point was taken spooky doesn’t seem to have the issue. Who is doing their playfeilds? I believe JJP is Mirco. Who is doing spooky? All the other manufactures though charge their suppliers back for the defective playfeilds. That is the advantage of not producing your own. You can also reject before installing in new manufactured games playfeilds deemed below standard. There is double quality control you hope.

    #163 5 years ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    I agree stern produces more than probably the others combined in one year. The point was taken spooky doesn’t seem to have the issue. Who is doing their playfeilds? I believe JJP is Mirco. Who is doing spooky? All the other manufactures though charge their suppliers back for the defective playfeilds. That is the advantage of not producing your own. You can also reject before installing in new manufactured games playfeilds deemed below standard. There is double quality control you hope.

    Its hard to say what is happening really and im not even going to pretend that i have a clue because i definitely don't. I think it will all get figured out though because the customer demands that it does.

    #164 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    Spooky doesn't make their own playfields so it could happen to them also just as easy. Stern, CGC, and JJP all three have had some playfield issues. This time next year Stern could have awesome playfields and Spooky could be having problems. When you have to rely on another company to give you quality materials alot of bad things can happen to your business in a hurry.
    Also you must remember that Stern produces far more games than anyone else so you are naturally going to hear more complaints about them. That still doesn't make it ok but its just the truth.

    The question everyone should be asking is where do Spooky have their playfields made?

    At the moment their playfields are way ahead of anyone else.

    #165 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    All playfields should be top notch quality period. The playfield is the main part of a pinball machine that should never ever be compromised when it comes to quality.

    What do you consider "top notch quality"? Is it realistic to expect zero variation in production? If some variation in production is normal, what is acceptable?

    Manufacturers usually hold there suppliers to certain standards that for pinball probably includes some level of ribbing, dimpling and chipping, because you see these things on playfields from the big manufacturers.

    Problem is, no where is it stated to what degree these defects become unacceptable. In their defense, it seems like it would be difficult to put a hard specification on these types of issues.

    My first NIB experience was an early WOZ. It had some ribbing on the playfield and the top of the back edge of the lower cabinet was shredded, like from a dull saw blade. I didn't think these defects were bad enough for JJP to toss the playfield and cabinet out, so chalked it up to unfortunate but acceptable levels of production variation.

    I learned that if those kinds of things bother me, better not to buy anything sight unseen in the future.

    TL:dr
    Some variations in playfield and overall game quality is normal. Don't buy sight unseen if you're concerned with imperfections.

    #166 5 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    The question everyone should be asking is where do Spooky have their playfields made?
    At the moment their playfields are way ahead of anyone else.

    Their playfields may be better. It may also be that they don't get as many airballs, have as many exposed wood edges, have balls being shot out of kickers, etc.

    I'm not familiar enough with their games to make a comparison.

    #167 5 years ago
    Quoted from Jvspin:

    What do you consider "top notch quality"? Is it realistic to expect zero variation in production? If some variation in production is normal, what is acceptable?
    Manufacturers usually hold there suppliers to certain standards that for pinball probably includes some level of ribbing, dimpling and chipping, because you see these things on playfields from the big manufacturers.
    Problem is, no where is it stated to what degree these defects become unacceptable. In their defense, it seems like it would be difficult to put a hard specification on these types of issues.
    My first NIB experience was an early WOZ. It had some ribbing on the playfield and the top of the back edge of the lower cabinet was shredded, like from a dull saw blade. I didn't think these defects were bad enough for JJP to toss the playfield and cabinet out, so chalked it up to unfortunate but acceptable levels of production variation.
    I learned that if those kinds of things bother me, better not to buy anything sight unseen in the future.
    TL:dr
    Some variations in playfield and overall game quality is normal. Don't buy sight unseen if you're concerned with imperfections.

    Thats kind of a tough question to answer but I’ll try to the best that i can. Obviously there shouldn’t be any ghosting or clearcoat chipping or imperfections that affect gameplay or the amount of time the playfield should last etc. Truthfully i dont think there should be ribbing either. Like i said, my new game has some ribbing but its not so bad that I personally find it unacceptable. I do wish that it wasnt there though and i feel that it shouldn’t be there on a 7K game. I can live with it and im going to, but at 7K should i have to? There is also a little bad spot in the clearcoat that I definitely dont like and I documented it with my distributor in case it causes me problems down the road. They are charging premium prices for these games so i expect Premium quality and nothing less. These games are in my home and i am proud of them and i want them to look nice. I realize that if i play them alot that i am going to cause wear to them, but they should stay looking really good in a home environment and they certainly should be beautiful when i pull the game out of the box to set it up.

    The other thing is, i seen these imperfections immediately out of the box so why didn’t the playfield inspector or inspectors? I would think that these games get looked at more than once to ensure quality before being shipped out. I realize that everything doesnt get caught but i feel that there may be too many things that arent being caught. Its either that or its workers that dont care maybe or someone in management saying......ship it! Ive worked in manufacturing for 34 years so i know how things work and believe me, ive seen some stuff that just makes me shake my head.

    #168 5 years ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    Lol I posted my ticket number and all was documented even phone conversations. I was also a MMr LE orginal owner and big CGC supporter. My distributor was great but can only do so much as warranty through CGC. Water under the bridge as they don’t have honor as game was sold only manufacture that warrants on the orginal owner. All I did was state the facts. If it was replaced that would have posted to as would have been acceptable. Are you a lover of their work including their first title?That game was great? . Looking through that difusser kit lenses some wear. Someone has to know where the current playfeilds for stern or being made or where the wood is coming from? Not hearsay but facts.

    Stern has their PFs cut by The Fun Company in WI. They route the board, install inserts and base coat. The boards are then sent for digital printing and then finally are sent somewhere else for the clear automotive top coat. I know that is one supply source. I am not sure if they have a second.

    Contrary to earlier posts, Spooky does make their own playfields.

    #169 5 years ago
    Quoted from WillSmuz8999:

    Stern has their PFs cut by The Fun Company in WI. They route the board, install inserts and base coat. The boards are then sent for digital printing and then finally are sent somewhere else for the clear automotive top coat. I know that is one supply source. I am not sure if they have a second.
    Contrary to earlier posts, Spooky does make their own playfields.

    That it interesting. During the GB ghosting ordeal a lot of people were saying the defective playfields were made by The Fun Company. Stern switching from their longtime provider CGC/Churchill may explain some of the problems.

    #170 5 years ago

    This is what fueled the decline in quality --

    hurry-up-and-take-my-money (resized).jpghurry-up-and-take-my-money (resized).jpg

    #171 5 years ago
    Quoted from JJHLH:

    That it interesting. During the GB ghosting ordeal a lot of people were saying the defective playfields were made by The Fun Company. Stern switching from their longtime provider CGC/Churchill may explain some of the problems.

    And, how long does Fun company age/cure their stock of plywood?

    #172 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    Spooky doesn't make their own playfields so it could happen to them also just as easy. Stern, CGC, and JJP all three have had some playfield issues. This time next year Stern could have awesome playfields and Spooky could be having problems. When you have to rely on another company to give you quality materials alot of bad things can happen to your business in a hurry

    I think Spooky has higher quality controls than the other guys. Charlie personally inspects every single game before it ships out. Gary and Jack have never claimed to do that to my knowledge.

    Higher quality inspection means you won’t get ghosted or planked playfields shipped to customers. Spooky does quality control right, they want us to have a great expirience.

    #173 5 years ago
    Quoted from scott_freeman:

    And, how long does Fun company age/cure their stock of plywood?

    Great question. And how does digitally printing the playfield compare with traditional screen printing? I'm ignorant regarding all this but find it fascinating and would like to learn more.

    -1
    #174 5 years ago
    Quoted from JJHLH:

    Great question. And how does digitally printing the playfield compare with traditional screen printing? I'm ignorant regarding all this but find it fascinating and would like to learn more.

    I am not sure how long Fun cures the wood they cut. I do know Spooky, Mirco, and Stern's printer, all use the digital printing process. I am not sure about CGC.

    #175 5 years ago
    Quoted from WillSmuz8999:

    I am not sure how long Fun cures the wood they cut. I do know Spooky, Mirco, and Stern's printer, all use the digital printing process. I am not sure about CGC.

    CGC uses the traditional screen printing process done by hand. Maybe they are the only ones left doing this?

    http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/churchill/index.html

    "Once a playfield is checked and passed it moves on to the screen printing room where the individual inks are applied by hand, one-by-one.

    The artwork is traditionally printed using a CMYK process which has additional layers added to print white or other specific colours not adequately reproduced by CYMK inks.

    Each ink requires a separate screen to be made. A screen is a semi-porous sheet which allows the ink to pass through in varying amounts in specific areas. Churchill don't make the screens themselves, so before a screen is used it is verified in the screens room."

    IMG_2547 (resized).JPGIMG_2547 (resized).JPG

    IMG_2548 (resized).JPGIMG_2548 (resized).JPG

    IMG_2549 (resized).JPGIMG_2549 (resized).JPG

    #176 5 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    I think Spooky has higher quality controls than the other guys. Charlie personally inspects every single game before it ships out. Gary and Jack have never claimed to do that to my knowledge.
    Higher quality inspection means you won’t get ghosted or planked playfields shipped to customers. Spooky does quality control right, they want us to have a great expirience.

    That's exactly why they are growing and will continue to grow. They "get" it.

    #177 5 years ago

    And I think others will too in time. The market drives the product. If customers demand quality play fields (no ribbing, planking chipping, gauging, cracking poor color and matching ect...) then the companies that step up will be the ones to prosper. The PF for me is the most important part of the game in appearance and structural geometry.

    #178 5 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    The question everyone should be asking is where do Spooky have their playfields made?
    At the moment their playfields are way ahead of anyone else.

    That is what I asked. Any idea who and where?

    #179 5 years ago
    Quoted from WillSmuz8999:

    I am not sure how long Fun cures the wood they cut. I do know Spooky, Mirco, and Stern's printer, all use the digital printing process. I am not sure about CGC.

    CGC does not use digital as Doug was ripping on the ones that do as inferior. Said theirs is 13 step process and every playfeild has “artistic characteristics while be printed on a natural product.” Others are only 4. That is why they claim the flaws color, planking, clear coat issue and ribbing are alright.

    #180 5 years ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    My HUO LOTR with about 800 plays. No dimpling and only one spot of ribbing about the size of a quarter. My HUO MET Pro with about 800 plays has dimpling and ribbing all over it. So what changed since LOTR?!?!?!

    WTF you own a HUO LOTR and in all those years have put 800 games in 15 yr's sell to someone who will enjoy and play the game

    #181 5 years ago

    I was still told by a few distributors that Stern switched playfeilds after GB issues from Churchill and SW le/premium was the last one done. They are very adamant that switch was done after not before like many are posting. You can also see in the article they are testing ghost buster clearcoats. I was told by stern it was an issue in ingredients that were in the clear that was changed without anyone knowing due to EPA recommendations. It appears many believe FUN is the new manufacture. Are they doing Stern’s new cabinets to? Any issues on Guardians of the Galaxy playfeilds?
    Is this them? http://www.funcompanygamestore.com

    #182 5 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    WTF you own a HUO LOTR and in all those years have put 800 games in 15 yr's sell to someone who will enjoy and play the game

    CGC focused on making complete games and quality control goes down. More importantly I believe it is different wood that was grown using heavy fertilizer. This “green” renewable wood hurt the baseball bats industry as a major failure as they were softer and breaking more. I think in 2007-2010 we started seeing more of this soft wood.

    Here is HSA on it.

    http://www.hsapinball.com/HSA_PINBALL/Playfield_Restoration.html

    #183 5 years ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    I was still told by a few distributors that Stern switched playfeilds after GB issues from Churchill and SW le/premium was the last one done. They are very adamant that switch was done after not before like many are posting. You can also see in the article they are testing ghost buster clearcoats. I was told by stern it was an issue in ingredients that were in the clear that was changed without anyone knowing due to EPA recommendations. It appears many believe FUN is the new manufacture. Are they doing Stern’s new cabinets to? Any issues on Guardians of the Galaxy playfeilds?
    Is this them? http://www.funcompanygamestore.com

    Yep, that is the Fun Company, in New Lisbon, WI

    #184 5 years ago
    Quoted from gjm:

    Hey Spooky owners... having playfield issues???

    I don't.

    But to be fair I've never had any issues with my NIB Sterns also.

    #185 5 years ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    I was still told by a few distributors that Stern switched playfeilds after GB issues from Churchill and SW le/premium was the last one done. They are very adamant that switch was done after not before like many are posting. You can also see in the article they are testing ghost buster clearcoats. I was told by stern it was an issue in ingredients that were in the clear that was changed without anyone knowing due to EPA recommendations. It appears many believe FUN is the new manufacture. Are they doing Stern’s new cabinets to? Any issues on Guardians of the Galaxy playfeilds?
    Is this them? http://www.funcompanygamestore.com

    Could you tell us the distributors who told you that?

    The photos I showed a few posts back demonstrate GB playfields being made by CGC. They were published October 2016 (click on the link to see), about a month after the issue was finally solved. Stern realized they made a mistake and went back to CGC as their playfield supplier for GB. This is solid proof that the non-ghosting playfields were definitely made by CGC/Churchill. Everything else is hearsay unless it can be validated with photos or other evidence.

    FUN Industries was responsible for the defective GB playfields, not CGC, as shown by these posts from the “Hey Stern are You Serious?” thread:

    Quoted from Aurich:

    Nothing official announced that I know of (and knowing Stern never will be) but for what it's worth I've heard the same thing from sources that are usually very accurate.
    http://www.funindustries.com
    I'm not shit talking Fun, don't know a thing about them. Could be an upgrade for all I know. But probably something to pay attention to in case it's not.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    may want to get your facts straight. things have changed.
    FUN industries appears to be making current junk. Stern appears to be bringing stuff in house and is somewhere in transition.

    Quoted from rubberducks:

    They're likely to exhaust existing supply of 'Fun' pfs, and there's also no information yet that Stern will return to using Churchill exclusively.
    I would wait. There's absolutely no reason not to.

    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    All of these problems have been Fun!

    Quoted from Phbooms:

    it only matters because people think that if Churchill makes the playfields that there wont be any issues and people are thinking they are getting Churchill playfields from Stern now but from what ive seen and heard Sterns still dealing with FUN who created this ghosting inserts, cracking clear in shooters and drain area situation within a few plays of brand new out of box games.

    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    so via Martin at Pinball News he posted a picture that I thought was interesting. Churchill are indeed now making play fields for stern again, when they are assembled into machines who knows but apparently Stern used a company called Fun and thats when the problems started. Here is a picture Martin took at Churchill with a well known play field Lets hope this is the beginning of the end of this shit.
    So we know there are atleast two suppliers now.

    Quoted from pindude80:

    Thanks for posting, I think I am going to hold off on getting a game until the "Fun" brand PFs are gone and all are Churchills again, but that means waiting for current stock to run out and my dist getting a "fresh" order. It may have been discussed before, but does anyone know how to distinguish a Churchill PF from a Fun one, other than the obvious ghosting and chipped clear

    I could go on and on but you get the idea. FUN=“bad”. CGC=“good”. I went to the effort to post this because I don’t want Pinsiders to make purchasing decisions based on false information. That’s not fair to them.

    -1
    #186 5 years ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    I was still told by a few distributors that Stern switched playfeilds after GB issues from Churchill and SW le/premium was the last one done. They are very adamant that switch was done after not before like many are posting. You can also see in the article they are testing ghost buster clearcoats. I was told by stern it was an issue in ingredients that were in the clear that was changed without anyone knowing due to EPA recommendations. It appears many believe FUN is the new manufacture. Are they doing Stern’s new cabinets to? Any issues on Guardians of the Galaxy playfeilds?
    Is this them? http://www.funcompanygamestore.com

    Planking all over on Gotg

    #187 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    The other thing is, i seen these imperfections immediately out of the box so why didn’t the playfield inspector or inspectors? I would think that these games get looked at more than once to ensure quality before being shipped out. I realize that everything doesnt get caught but i feel that there may be too many things that arent being caught. Its either that or its workers that dont care maybe or someone in management saying......ship it! Ive worked in manufacturing for 34 years so i know how things work and believe me, ive seen some stuff that just makes me shake my head.

    I don't think I stated my point very well, let me try again. I work in an industry where we make products and guarantee their performance.

    We will charge one price to guarantee a product works from say 7 to 10. Most parts will work from 9 to 10 but a 7 will pop up sometimes, maybe even a batch of them. If a customer wants guaranteed performance from 9 to 10 they have to pay more. Sure, everyone wants to get a 9 or 10 and pay the price for a 7 but it's the luck of the draw.

    To me, getting a game with ribbing is like getting a 7 to 8, depending on how bad it is.

    #188 5 years ago
    Quoted from Jvspin:

    I think you misunderstand my point. I work in an industry where we make products and guarantee their performance.
    We will charge one price to guarantee a product works from say 7 to 10. Most parts will probably work from 9 to 10 but a 7 will pop up sometimes, maybe even a batch of them. If a customer wants guaranteed performance from 9 to 10 they have to pay a lot more. Sure, everyone wants to get a 9 or 10 and pay the price for a 7 but it's the luck of the draw.

    No I understand what you are saying. I am just saying that all playfields should be a 9 or a 10 because we are paying alot of money for these games, even the pro models and they just keep going up and up in price. I guess it would be ok if they had a game with a low quality playfield and they sold it at a discounted price, but we all know that is never going to happen in a million years. A pro model from Stern should not be any less quality than a Premium or an LE. It’s obviously not going to have the bells and whistles of a Premium but the quality should still be there.

    I think what you are saying would be like walking into a Toyota dealership and buying a new Tacoma and you look at it and the paint job sucks on it and the salesman says “if you want a showroom paint job you have to buy the 50 thousand dollar Tundra instead of the 35 thousand dollar Tacoma”. That would not fly with customers buying a new car and it wouldn’t fly with customers buying a new pinball machine either. If i buy a Toyota Corolla, i expect the paint to be just as nice as what is on their Tundras.

    And before anybody says anything, sorry for the cargument.....i hate carguments too.

    #189 5 years ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    CGC does not use digital as Doug was ripping on the ones that do as inferior. Said theirs is 13 step process and every playfeild has “artistic characteristics while be printed on a natural product.” Others are only 4. That is why they claim the flaws color, planking, clear coat issue and ribbing are alright.

    Any defect/QC that would cost them more than $100 is seemingly "artistic characteristic."

    Any truth that the toilet paper in their office has their warranty printed on it?

    #190 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    I am just saying that all playfields should be a 9 or a 10 because we are paying alot of money for these games, even the pro models and they just keep going up and up in price.

    Yes, these games cost a lot of money but if the current standard gets raised, someone has to eat the cost of the rejected playfields.

    Do you think the manufacturer or the supplier wants to cut into their profit margins, unless someone stops buying?

    I think LEs should come with flawless playfields. Of course that means better QC, storing separate stock and risking a supply shortage if they don't get enough yield to the higher standard to meet demand.

    Nothing is free though and I expect they would try to pass these costs on to us. They could use it as a selling feature and the collector LE buyers might go for it.

    #191 5 years ago

    My Star Wars this effect as well, Not as bad but noticeable. My friend has this on his Metallica Prem too.

    Quoted from Monster_Bash:

    Here's our replacement sw playfield
    Pretty much all the inserts are raised also

    #192 5 years ago
    Quoted from Jvspin:

    Yes, these games cost a lot of money but if the current standard gets raised, someone has to eat the cost of the rejected playfields.
    Do you think the manufacturer or the supplier wants to cut into their profit margins, unless someone stops buying?
    I think LEs should come with flawless playfields. Of course that means better QC, storing separate stock and risking a supply shortage if they don't get enough yield to the higher standard to meet demand.
    Nothing is free though and I expect they would pass these costs on to us. They could use it as a selling feature and the collector LE buyers would probably go for it.

    We as customers are not asking for a rise in playfield quality though and thats the part that you are missing. People just want a nice playfield that is free from defects like they used to have no problems at all making. Its not my problem or my fault either one if ever who makes their playfields does shitty work, why should the customers pay for those mistakes? Ever who makes the playfields should be paying for those mistakes, not Stern and not the customer, and if Fun or whoever it is can’t make a quality playfield then you gotta go find another company that can, its that simple. When my company sends a customer bad product, the customer rejects it and sends it back. Guess who has to eat that loss? We do, not the customer!

    Pinball playfields have been being made for 75 years or whatever, why all of the sudden cant we have nice playfields?? All people want is a damn playfield that looks nice lol. I don’t think the customers are asking for too much when they ask for that. Another thing that you seem to keep forgetting is that Pinball manufacturers are pricing their games at unbelievably high prices so why shouldn’t the customer demand great quality? These are not cheap ass games that everyone is just throwing on route anymore to make a shitload of money on. Most of these games are being bought by collectors to go in their homes. The pinball market has changed alot in that regard and pinball companies must adapt to their customers wants and needs or they will fail. Pinball prices are so damn high right now that its hard for someone to route a game and make any money on it.

    #193 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    Pinball playfields have been being made for 75 years or whatever, why all of the sudden cant we have nice playfields??

    People are blaiming the EPA for not being able to use the same chemicals in a clear coat. Or they are blaiming the wood supplier for using tree farm wood for not being hard enough.

    Perhaps it is both those problems, perhaps it is neither and just bad craftsmanship. Who can say but there is certainly an issue seemingly everywhere but Spooky.

    #194 5 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    People are blaiming the EPA for not being able to use the same chemicals in a clear coat. Or they are blaiming the wood supplier for using tree farm wood for not being hard enough.
    Perhaps it is both those problems, perhaps it is neither and just bad craftsmanship. Who can say but there is certainly an issue seemingly everywhere but Spooky.

    I know and there are people that get paid good money to figure issues like this out. Im also confident that it will get figured out in time and this problem will be a thing of the past.

    #195 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    We as customers are not asking for a rise in playfield quality though and thats the part that you are missing.

    I guess we just see things differently.

    I maintain that if you look closely, you will be surprised at how many games have playfields with ribbing. The playfields I have with ribbing do not wear more than those without, so it hasn't been a problem other than cosmetic.

    Asking a manufacturer to throw away all those playfields is asking for a rise in quality.

    #196 5 years ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    I know and there are people that get paid good money to figure issues like this out. Im also confident that it will get figured out in time and this problem will be a thing of the past.

    We agree , but what should the manufacturers do until that happens? I guess they could shut down all production.

    Otherwise, for now it's the new normal, live with it, protect your machines accordingly (chipping) or stop buying until they figure it out. Just my opinions, of course.

    #197 5 years ago
    Quoted from Jvspin:

    I guess we just see things differently.
    I maintain that if you look closely, you will be surprised at how many games have playfields with ribbing. The playfields I have with ribbing do not wear more than those without, so it hasn't been a problem other than cosmetic.
    Asking a manufacturer to throw away all those playfields is asking for a rise in quality.

    Any cosmetic defect is a problem at the prices pinball companies are charging period. My newest playfield has a small amount of ribbing and i have chosen to accept it. I dont like it but im going to accept it and move on. I have seen some playfields though that have awful looking ribbing and it is not, nor should it be acceptable to anybody. Ive seen some ribbing so damn bad here lately on some games that i would have been embarrassed to have shipped them out to the customer. Im also not saying that every little blemish warrants getting a new playfield, i dont believe that what so ever. Cosmetic defects though are still defects and should be treated as such and if they are bad enough the customer should get a new playfield, cabinet or whatever. If i am paying five or ten thousand dollars for a game, i expect it to have excellent quality and I believe that 99% of all customers probably feel the same way. You can settle for mediocrcy and poor workmanship if you want, but im not going to.

    #198 5 years ago
    Quoted from Jvspin:

    We agree , but what should the manufacturers do until that happens? I guess they could shut down all production.
    Otherwise, for now it's the new normal, live with it, protect your machines accordingly (chipping) or stop buying until they figure it out. Just my opinions, of course.

    I guarantee if sales drop off due to poor quality that they will get the problem figured out and resolved immediately. Im done arguing about though and for the record, i dont even think the playfield quality is all that bad for the most part. I just think it could and should be a little better at the prices they are charging.

    #199 5 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    People are blaiming the EPA for not being able to use the same chemicals in a clear coat. Or they are blaiming the wood supplier for using tree farm wood for not being hard enough.
    Perhaps it is both those problems, perhaps it is neither and just bad craftsmanship. Who can say but there is certainly an issue seemingly everywhere but Spooky.

    Spooky has made what?... under 800 games total ? Not many to really get a good sampling from imo. Stern sells that in weeks sometimes so obviously they will have more issues.

    #200 5 years ago

    Stern has the ribbing issue for a long time. Some more than others. My brothers HUO Lotr wich he bought NIB back in 2009. Has the ribbing issue as well. His game is on of the last 2006 run. So at least some games out of 2006 do have this issue as well...

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