I think you're talking about the clingy plastic long rectangle piece they have leading up to the scoop to protect that ball path. It's *almost* invisible, but you can see the edge.

Mirco has better wood (way less dimpling than Stern) and a beautiful finish, but they need to use slower cure clear because the finish is VERY brittle at edges. The Dialed In we got chipped within 50 plays at the SIM hole, and many other had this experience, too. If Mirco fixes their clearcoat process they are the perfect vendor. It's the only thing holding them back.

Quite a few of my Stern machines have the ribbing, but there is no playfield wear or chipping on any of them.

I notice the ribbing on the following games when using a flashlight - SM, SMB, FG, Monopoly, CSI and LOTR.

I wax the playfield and change the balls around every 100-200 plays which I consider to be excessive.

And how often do you notice this issue when not using a flashlight?

If you can't FEEL the ribbing there is no issue. You'll see wood grain under the clear on a lot of playfields if you look hard enough.

It has come to my attention that playfields that have small ribbing, usually have less problems with dimpling.

Never.

I only checked because of this thread.

You cannot feel it.

So should people now buy Paint Thickness Gauges to determine the thickness of the clearcoat on their games within a +/- of x amount of microns, over say 100 small areas?

"My Clearcoat of off by 20 microns" the horror!

Give it a rest people.

Its a pinball machine not a Lambo.

This is getting ridiculous

To answer your question, this hobby has many people that want things for their machines and do not want to pay for them. Claiming a playfield defect and getting the manufacturer to give you a new playfield (or populated playfield) is a way to make money at the manufacturers expense. Creating BS about it on this site gets manufacturers to sit up and listen.
Everybody needs to play more Pinball!

And some have legitimate concerns and truly defective products.

Has anyone noticed all the orange peel in their brand new car's clear coat finish? This used to not be an issue with a quality experienced sprayer at the nozzle (or robot for that matter in the factories). However in the last several years EPA has been forcing everyone to change the chemical compounds in paints and clears to the point it is near impossible to lay down without some orange peel effect. Especially in a production environment. Unless of course the piece is able to lay level and flat during the spraying and drying process and you can thin the heck out of it its pretty acceptable you will have orange peel. Also I've noticed I've had to start holding my sprayer closer to the object being painted to get less orange peel. The droplets actually dry midair before hitting the surface not allowing them to spread out and level and this causes the orange peel. So the CC quality and composure has changed possible affecting the strength of the CC taking a beating and adhering to inserts. Clear coating has many issues that weren't there for a sprayer years ago. We adapt and try to catch up but the industry isn't there yet.

As to the wood ribbing, yeah I've noticed it in new games. None of it in my Williams and bally games. Let's remember this; wood sources are different than they were 20 years ago. Wood is being sourced from younger and younger crops. Kiln dry the wood all you want but that's not going to change the fact that the wood just isn't as dense as it was years ago. The land gets stripped and a new crop is planted. 20 years later the pine is cut and replanted. The pine grows quicker because the land it grew on is wide open - leading to less dense wood. Stratovarious violins are the perfect example of how wood grows affects the outcome.

I have no issue with the ribbing on my Stern machines. I don't mind the look and there is no wear on any of those machines.

However, I still feel pretty bad for the guys who took one on the chin from CGC. That was just plain wrong.

Mirco can source premium wood blanks for AP that don't dimple, but the CGC ones do still, and the Stern ones dimple MUCH worse than they used to (worst of all the manufacturers now). It's not a problem with GETTING the good blanks, it's a problem with PAYING what that costs. PF and cabinet wood is just another cost reduction area now for most pin manufacturers.

If it even happened...?

I agree 100%. The costs might be enough to justify getting the less expensive ones in terms of passing it on to the customers. Perhaps Stern could look into this and offer premium playfields with their collector edition models. I'm like others that don't mind dimpling and ribbing so long as the game is reliable and play isn't affected. Others who want art get to pay more in the collector editions. Nothing wrong with either approach in my eyes. I'd be willing to pay less and incur some dimpling and ribbing possibly. Others willing to pay more for less likely of this happening. Stern are you listening?

I often wonder if some people actually play their pins anymore.

I think playfields are made with maple not pine but we get your point.

I’ve purchased several NIB and HUO Sterns, and the only game where I saw this type of ‘ribbing’ was TWD. It wasn’t a huge deal, but it was very noticeable.

At the end of the day, I wasn’t bothered by it, but I can see how some would have an issue.

Not the first time I've spoken before getting my facts.

If they're going to own their cheapening of Stern wood that's happened over the last few years, then the LEs, at the VERY LEAST should have the better playfield wood. Make LE actually MEAN something again, value-wise.

Has any manufacturer ever dabbled with synthetic wood for playfields?

This is complete BS!

Is that from the same factory as vegan leather?

You cannot be serious? These pinball companies are charging Premium prices right now, thats why customers are demanding premium quality, as they should.

Yes, but not in a long time.

It didn't go well back in the day.

The veneered wood is Baltic Birch plywood, although some playfield veneer have been made of Maple (BTW American Hardwoods "Mapletop" is a brand name not exclusive to materials so avoid the confusion with Churchill). Pine is not used due to water absorption, dry split during compression, and cracks during CNC routing. It helps to understand materials, if a person wants to be concerned with the quality of their pinball machines. The advantage of Baltic Birch plywood is it resists warping better than other plywoods due to its cross banded layering, uniform, and less voids. All critical when you cutting holes in wood for inserts and overall strength and being level. If manufacturers were using variations of the pine species, this thread would be exploding due to true "planking", insert lifting, and all sorts of problems after only a few months or years, instead of a decade of use.

"Why" Baltric Birch is good for playfields, and "why" it has been used for a very, very long time (50+ years).
https://forestplywood.com/blog/all-about-baltic-birch/

If you are a woodworker, this will be educational as well:
https://www.woodworkerssource.com/blog/woodworking-101/tips-tricks/your-ultimate-guide-to-baltic-birch-plywood-why-its-better-when-to-use-it/

If a person wants to know the history used for synthetic playfield materials, I provided some research of the past. Both chemical compound, metal, and plastic have been used. Creating a playfield from plastic requires retooling the industrial production line of a manufacturer, because you have to use different types of fasteners, and you cannot fix mistakes, because it severely weakness the structural integrity of the sheet. Could it done today? Absolutely at higher cost.

Higher quality commercial wood is available by manufacturers for cabinets as well as playfields, but there is no interest in paying the costs. If there are enough bored wealthy people that will spend $15K on a BM66LE with same crappy BoM materials as the BM66 Premium, and do not care, would you bother?
Evidence from the recent past. This was not meant to be furniture like stereo and TV sets from the 1960s built in custom cabinets. Solid hardwood boardfeet sheets are ultra expensive, this is not flooring materials.

Essentially today, people continue to pay more for less, and less, and less...
An expensive piece of overpriced "Milton Bradley" tech that will turn to junk faster than in the past.
About 2-5 years is the present lifecycle on board sets for electronics, 10 years maximum for the rest at best.
It is not just materials, but the CRAFTSMANSHIP using the provided materials, not just tools.
Knowledge is power in this world.

Some thought and observations:

In 1982, I bought a 1960 Corvette with the original paint still looking good. However, there was a flaw in the paint on the trunk lid. The factory painter got the paint on too heavy and the paint gathered in a thick glob at the edge of the trunk. The defect measured 6 inches long by 1/4 inch wide and had bubbled. Whether the car was produced as a normal factory run or special ordered will never be known. But either the factory, or the dealer sanded the bubbled area down and sold the car to its original owner. Either that owner was given a discount or never noticed the defect or just did not care. The defect was there but to the casual observer it was a flaw that would never be noticed. When I got the car it drove like a bat out of hell and that was 80% of what mattered.

The point here is that this type of defect would not be allowed to pass a factory level inspection at today's standards. Back then, cars had a 12,000 mile/12 month warranty and then it was all on you. Cars did not last that many years so people did not make a big deal about minor stuff.
**************

Here is a copy of the Data East warranty from 1989. You got a 60 day warranty on circuit boards. No nothing more. There was no warranty for cosmetic issues. Everybody knew the pins were going to get beat to shit. All that mattered is did the pin make money. As Vid said some time ago, they were designed to last for 3 years; Not 30 !.

Screen Shot 2018-03-22 at 9.59.33 PM (resized).png

In my short time in the hobby I have seen a Stern Seawitch and a Bally Strikes & Spares with play fields that are in real nice condition. But neither of these two play fields are worth restoring due to the keylines/registrations being off center by at least 1/4" and perhaps at least 3/8". Nobody cared at the time; the bars were dark, the players were drunk, and the operators made money.

Nowadays, somebody wants a pretty pin to sit in the garage next to his Mercedes that possesses that quality German engineering (Volkswagon does not count, anymore ) and the pinball makers are sort of stuck trying to make game that is affordable, looks good, does not cost a fortune to make, doesn't fall apart, and deal with a lot of picky buyers, named Joe Suburb, that are PO'd because they seek the level of perfection that is not possible to make at a price that Joe can afford.

Better yet, there were manufacturers that made playfields out of materials that were not wood.The Spanish companies made playfields out of a plastic material. Jolly Park and Verne's World from Spinball.

I would say cost is the main deterrent, plus purists wanting wood.

But Stern did that - at half the price, less than 10 years ago. Spiderman is a great example. They could be had new for $3300, and their build quality was SUBSTANTIALLY better than what we have now at more than twice the price. Materials inflation accounts for some of that, but not a 100%+ increase in 10 years, while simultaneously cheapening the build materials used.

Guys most of crappy wood and playfeilds were coming from Churchill which is Chicago Gaming Company. Rumor was SW was last game by Churchill for stern. Can anyone confirm or who the new manufacture is? JJP gets cabinets from them but playfeilds overseas.

Here is the article
http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/churchill/index.html

If mirco would just make sure they used the better clearcoat method they used to use that NEVER had chipping problems, they would be the perfect vendor to supply these. The ones they did for Houdini are beautiful, and so far no chipping, so maybe AP paid more for a better CC process?

My new MET Premium has the ribbed look a little bit on the playfield. Its the only one of my games that i have noticed this. It doesn't bother me too much because you have to be in the right light to see it and you have to be looking for it.

Do i think this is ok and acceptable for a 7k pinball machine? No.

Am i gonna ask for a new playfield? No but if it was worse i might.

Am i disappointed in the quality? Yep a little bit i am.

You are incorrect. The Churchill playfields supplied to Stern are the ones that have the least issues. It is very easy to tell which playfields are Churchill and which ones are not. Churchill playfields have more than 4 colours silkscreened and you can see this on the colour tracer under the Apron. The sticker is also a dead give away as the Churchill playfields have batch numbers on them. I do not think Churchill has supplied any playfields to Stern since Ghostbusters. Stern are keeping tight lipped about their playfield supplier only saying that they have a few options.

I agree with everything you said the only thing you didnt factor in was the level at which the price of pinball machines have risen compared to quality in a short span of time. Thats where the real problem lies. If you are going to inflate the price people expect the quality will follow. Some manufacturers understand this better than others.

This! Is my experience as well.
The ones that have this grain, going back to LOTR when I first noticed it, seem to be a harder wood. They dimple less and last a long time, in my experience.
I just got a TWD premium that shows this trait, and was rather glad to see it.
My Star Wars is like glass, or was, but now has serious dimpling.
They both play great!

That is all hearsay I want to know who knows for sure. To say they are the least is different than many distributors have told me. CGC playfeilds were the bad ones on ghostbuster as only supplier in the beginning. I was told SW LE/Premium was the last game that stern was usung Churchill by a distributor. Someone has to know. You are correct on the 4 color but the CGC many were 4 color for stern nearing the end. Someone has to know who is manufacturing as can’t be a secret. Is stern making their own playfeilds now? A game like Metallica they aren’t going to another manufacture at nearly the end of production as has to still be CGC. My Metallica’s and Star Treks were awesome but were softer wood than my older games. The poor playfeilds is something recent. That said stern does fully honor warranty and replaces with a populated playfeild unlike CGC.

I have had six LOTRs. The playfeilds do look different based on year made. All though did not show dimpling as much as new games. Must have been a harder wood. Interesting your thoughts. Does TWD seem to be harder wood? Ribbing is just poor preparation of the surface.

As a heart attack. Maybe you thought I was suggesting they charge more than what they charge now for the better quality wood. Nope. I'm suggesting they include the better quality wood for their LE's. Use the "ribbing" wood for the rest or some sort of pricing tier as this. Maybe this would justify the extra cost of the LE a bit? Of course we'd all rather see them use the best wood on all tier games. I definitely don't care to see NIB prices go up more than they are now. But prices will continue to go up justified or not as long as people pay.

I agree. I have owned both Star Trek and Metallica pro/premium and le. Star Trek LE in my opinion is what a LE should be. Cureentky LE just stands for Latest Edition to charge a higher amount. Extra features and quality are better. The Star Wars LE I bought was disappointing when next to the Star Trek. LE should have special features and best quality of materials.

Only problem with that his that some manufacturers use two different playfields pending on the tier of game you are buying. In Stern's instance the Pro playfield is different from Premium and LE's. This method could be used on LE's and then buyers could chance it on premium. But on the pro side, you would be pulling straws. Either way, interesting concept.

Ditto for me. My TSPP built in 2007 has light, barely noticeable ribbing, which never occurred to me could be a problem until reading this thread. The playfield looks perfect otherwise, with no visible dimpling. In contrast my GB playfield is super glossy with no ribbing but dimples pretty easily. Either variety is fine with me as long as the basic integrity of the playfield remains intact.

I also think you are incorrect. We know the ghosting issues with GB largely went away starting around Sept 2016 (although a few remaining defective playfields seemed to pop up occasionally, perhaps from leftover stock that was used). We also know for a fact that CGC/Churchill were the ones making the playfields after the issue was solved based on photos from this article published in Oct 2016:

http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/churchill/index.html

I followed this very closely as I had a nib GB Premium on order and was understandably concerned about it. My machine was delivered in Dec 2016. The playfield was made by CGC/Churchill and was perfect. CGC has been in the playfield business for decades. It’s highly unlikely they would change their process since it’s already generally proven. It would make more sense that Stern tried to go with a different playfield producer early on once CGC announced they would be manufacturing their own games and would therefore be a competitor. This argument is supported by others who at the time claim that FUN was the manufacturer producing the faulty GB playfields (different from the TX company that sells games and are great).

This is not true at all. Very few populated playfields have been issued by anyone to anyone.
It is very individualised as far as service as its a very expensive option.

But then very few games have needed this drastic of a repair.

However insert ghosting will get you a replacement playfield in all cases, from all manufactureres, just ask them or send in a ticket.

The Distributor will help with installing the replacement playfield in most cases, if they are worth their business.
Most distributors really want your repeat business and will work hard to insure it.
The distributors generally handle the warranty work issues for you as part of their agreement with manufactureres, much like car dealers.

A car manufacturer will not send you a replacement car if the paint has lifting or bubbling issues.

The statement "unlike CGC" is complete hogwash.

CGC distributors are apparently handcuffed by CGC. It is fairly well documented in the AFMr Owners thread.

The distributors I talked to will do whatever work is needed on their end as required by the manufacturer.

If you contact the manufacturer they will ask you if you talked to the distributor on whatever issue you have first.

If the distributor is a piece of crap, and will do nothing to help you after the sale, then the manufacturer will try to help you out if you have a little patience.

We will all know if the distributer isn't worth dealing with on this forum

As far as Onwallst issues with his game, Im skepitcal if it ever happened at all. He has not shown any proof that his distributor wouldn't help him out or that he even sent in a ticket to CGC to get any resolution at all.

If his distributer wouldnt help him on a new game, I would like to know who it was and never deal with them.
CGC does not sell direct.

He could have gotten a replacement playfield blank any time he wanted, just send in a ticket.
I would very much like to see a capture of the ticket he sent in, if he even did it at all.

The issues that were fully documented have all gone up in smoke under even the slightest scrutiny.

So Im skeptical that any of the issues mentioned in that thread ever happened at all, and might just be mindless trolling.

So again, a lot of all of that was just hogwash in my view of it.

By your statement here, you obviously have no idea what your talking about and you obviously did not read the AFMr Owners Thread. He posted his ticket number! Why is that you guys continuesly post BS on this site about that issue. If you really want to be informed on what really happened, try reading the thread, learning how to read or PMing him before posting false staements.

I dont know of any distributor worth dealing with that wouldnt resolve any issue I might have and I have had plenty.

I have great empathy towards guys that have been screwed by distributors. It happens.

But this is not an entirely accurate reflection of a manufacturer.

There will be several once in a lifetime problems that are hard to resolve, but generally can be in time.

CGC doesnt deal direct unless they have to intervene due to a bad distributor. Its amazing that they as well as others have even attempted to deal with the public! Im not sure that I would.

Not too long ago NO manufacturer of any item would ever "deal direct" and refer all calls to a distributor nearest to you. End of story. It was considered the distributors job to handle the public.

If the distributor is a bad guy it will become well known and documented and they might lose the business of a manufacturer.

If you dont know who's who, ask on pinside and everyone will chime in on the good, bad, or ugly.

In my experience all problems and issues can and will be resolved with a little good will and a willingness to compromise by both parties involved.

I have been in business a long time and nearly all issues that have come across my desk have had positive outcomes.

However nothing is perfect, nor should I think it would be.

I have noticed this ribbing effect on some games (not mine) and having an eye for these things I would not be happy if a NIB purchase I made came with it.

I have basically sworn off buying NIB anyway at this point, much better to see the game before you buy.

I did recently buy a TNA sight-unseen, but that was a bit of a different situation. Spooky's impressive TNA playfield test video gives me some reassurance that they are doing their playfields right. I also noticed that the clearcoat on my TNA seems to have a similar milkyness to it as older Bally/Williams games from the 90's. Hopefully it will hold up as well as most of those did without chipping issues seen in many new playfields from current manufacturers.

The world must be a wonderful place when looking through those CGC Diffuser glasses.