Ghosting is usually from not using a matching adhesion promoter or improper surface prep like allowing oil or wax or mold release agent as a containment when the inserts were made or installed.

Its true that a slow cure might eat off the contaminant and raise it to the surface and adhere well enough. But it might take months to harden fully.

In that case you couldnt put the game into service right away.

So it is what it is these days.

TnA pf holding up really well

Im not entirely sure that automotive clear is appropriate to apply on a sheet of plywood ever. But thats what we are attempting with fair to acceptable results over time.

My auto body shop said I was nuts when I had them clear a playboy for me.
I told them not to worry, I would assume all liability in writing.

Dialed In is WAY brighter than WoZ, which is easily the worst-lit JJP game for a dark room. Inserts are beautiful, but GI is AWFUL. Dialed In's GI is WAY better than WoZ.

I cannot believe Stern even let a playfield that bad out of the factory....let alone populating it and putting it in your game. I feel for you, and therein lies the basis of my policy of not buying any new Stern games anymore. My Houdini looks awesome and I look forward to more of their games being in my collection as time goes on.

My original run HUO Spiderman had ribbing from the factory.

My HUO Iron man VE has ribbing. But it still plays amazing!

Stern is kind of notorious for it, and their machine since at least Monopoly have issues with actual planking if not kept in a temperature-controlled environment. But CGC jumping on the bandwagon is an unwelcome development. All the AP Houdini PFs I've seen look great, though. No idea who they're using or what base PF blank wood they're using. I'd be interested for that person with the wood hardness meter to test a Houdini PF and cabinet. It *seems* harder than the crap Stern is using now.

It may just be a bad adjustment on the particular one that’s on location near me. Barcade just added it, and it’s much darker than the Champion Pub and Metallica on either side of it.

I saw a few rough patches on the GOTG games at TPF this year.
None of it affected game play and with the constant playing going on they seemed to hold up normally with no abnormal wear or dirt accumulation.

So I think its a non-issue for the most part.

Ok so what I am getting here is that if it's a routed game the ribbing/planking is ok. No player really gives shit. Got that.
I can agree to that. If it is a collector game..... well it SUCKS!

It's darker than Metallica Prem for sure, but if you think Dialed In is dark, WoZ looks like a (actual, not the pin) black hole by comparison.

Is anyone actually making collector games?

Kinda. ..

Slow rolling balls actually bounce off the inserts and change direction.

I guess that's normal nowadays on a NIB machine that already had a pf replaced because of 16 ghosting inserts?

I’m just tired of the nonsense. But everybody else thrives on it so let’s keep at it.

Couldn't agree more.

It certainly is nonesense...

Chris and a few others:

http://www.highendpins.com/

But with any type of a collectible be prepared to pay up.
Otherwise assume that your game is standard from the manufacturers, or a regular to good example.

That will be very sad if CGC/PPS has the same shitty Stern wood problems

And that’s just it. Factory pins will never equal what someone my HEP or Kelly can do. The only crime is expecting that since you paid X it should be perfect.

And that SW playfield above looks awful. I would fight to fix that if it was mine.

My HUO LOTR with about 800 plays. No dimpling and only one spot of ribbing about the size of a quarter. My HUO MET Pro with about 800 plays has dimpling and ribbing all over it. So what changed since LOTR?!?!?!

the

the price of new stern pins!

That's a single game issue I'd be willing to guess... DI is bright as hell.
EDIT: at least just as bright as my GOT & SW

The wood is much crappier. Someone took a gauge to it and it's definitely much softer (cheaper) wood now on the Stern PFs. Cabinet wood has been cheapened sometime after KISS, too. I have a KISS LE with much better cabinet wood than the current stuff Stern is putting out.

Complete opposite experience for me. My 2004 LOTR has poor color registration, and the ring insert popped out when I cleaned it a little from the bottom. My 2013 Metallica Pro’s playfield still looks like the day I brought it home.

It seems like Stern is still using different playfield suppliers, or one supplier is buying multiple grades of wood because some current Stern runs have less dimple-prone (read:harder wood) playfields than others. I wish they still stamped the sides with more information.

I had a HUO BDK from 2007 and it had really bad ribbing, so this has been going on for way more then the past 4 or 5 years. That being said if the playfields clearcoat is nice and smooth to the touch i don't really care. You don't notice at all when you're playing, and isn't that what we are supposed to do, play them not inspect them with a fine tooth comb? If the clear was bumpy too, that would probably bug me though.

The simple answer, if a playfield exhibits true "planking", no it is not.
I cannot evaluate as there are no proper photos of this planking I could review.
Insufficient wood drying prior to manufacture and CNC routing can cause premature cracks.
This can also be found in playfields that have improper storage conditions prior to assembly.
This happened in the past with other titles from titles from Bally/Williams/Gottlieb as well, but these playfields were sold as seconds and not often used in game production.

"Ribbing" as described can be commonly found in playfields that were improperly prepared/sanded prior to screening and coating. This can also be caused by the application of the clear coat itself. All the photos I have seen on this thread have some form of ribbing.
There is a difference as noted.

Stern games had ribbing problems all the way back into the early 2000s, so new members need to stop saying this a "new" problem, if that becomes a separate argument. It is not. I remember unboxing multiples of LOTR and TSPP, that all had this evidence, but not "planking". They also had ink screening problems as well with things being misaligned, which has also been brought up in the past.

I have certainly seen some 40-50 year old NOS playfields with planking due to improper storage, mostly out of the wood warping with age.

If a person wants a "perfect" playfield game, look to past for examples to acquire, although there is no guarantee you will find them without substantial work. Very few games unless stored in correct climate controlled conditions are going to be "perfect" anyway after 20-50 years, but they do exist.
Today, manufacturers often cut every material corner they can to be able to make games quickly as the pinball revival is not guaranteed for longevity.
They are also working with market of customers that are not versed in the industry or past standards.

The trend will not improve until people stop buying games or refuse the present standard of construction.
I have not seen substantial improvements in a forward direction in nearly 15 years in this area alone, except JJP with their QC efforts in materials and features within the designs themselves.
I don't understand why people believe this will change presently with words, as manufacturers are not going to change as a result of PinSide comments.
The pinball market remains tenuous as a medium of entertainment, as it has for nearly 40 years after closure of the EM era.
Most people that buy games are not here.
Those are here that are informed get told they are wrong, and those that are wrong, seem to get cheerleaded to the front of the line.

There is nothing wrong with a bit of skepticism on quality of materials used today for pinball construction which have degraded, as enthusiast suspicions are accurate.
Pinball machines today are built with the mindset of "an industrial disposable coin operated device being sold for limited private ownership".
They are not built to the same level of quality of motorcycles or automobiles today, as they were in the past decades.
Operators know it, even if private owners might not, and are accepting the realities as well, as they hold no upper hand now in the market, but would MUCH rather owner ANY game made BEFORE 1999 than today in terms of long term reliability and durability (including playfields), unless able to profit from general interest of a new title.
In my region, lots and lots of people want to have pinball on route locations including business owners, but they do not understand they simply are not profitable for the operator themselves and simply an "add on" to route against AMI Jukeboxes, Big Buck Hunter HD, Megatouch, redemption, cigarette dispensers, or even photo booths!

Keep Flipping.

I have a Fish Tales that has what looks like ribbing. Good news is, other than the ribbed look when viewed at just the right angle, the playfield hasn't worn abnormally after 25 years.

Also have an LOTR with slight ribbing on the playfield, again, no abnormal wear.

This is what is not happening IMHO. This whole thing amounts to QC. All these companies can produce nice beautiful play fields, that's a fact. Crappy quality play fields are being put into these games. So I guess people have false notions of a NIB game. You are not guaranteed a nice pristine play field for 8k and above. OK so anyone that doesn't like, that just don't buy a NIB game! Pretty simple to me.

You raise an interesting question here marc. IMHO yes when you produce an LE game! Otherwise why buy an LE? For a player, LE makes no sense. A complete waste of money, as long as the game plays the same. If your a player, why would you care about body armor, a number, topper, pretty lights ect...? If you care about the collectability of a game then you spend the extra money for the LE. When you (as a manufacturer) offer a numbers matching LE game you are reaching out the collectors not the players. Wouldn't it make good business sense for at least those games to be as nice as you can build them? The Play field for me is the most important part of a game in game play and how it looks. (artwork, color, quality ect) I want that artwork to shine. Therefore I think that the quality of the playfield determines the long term collectability and value of the game. (something a player could care a less about)

A lot of the new stern star treks were wearing through really fast. Some of them were routed ones though.

That is butt ugly. Was that a Bronze play field?

I'm seeing ribbing and what looks like the start of a major crack forming from the bottom of the picture to the middle of the insert.

My TSPP playfield is hard as freaking nails with very few ball marks even after a thousand plays. KISS LE, not so much although I don't have woodgrain showing.

The bottom line is you pay a supplier for certain tolerances (quality range). That supplier delivers product based on what you pay for.

Most don't notice or care. Game plays the same. Some replacements may be made on a game-by-game basis. Overwhelming majority won't be.

This is where we are.

business (resized).jpg

nope, TNA is the current industry standard for quality playfield!

I was told by one of the American Pinball distributor at Louisville Arcade Expo that American Pinball currently uses Mirco for playfields, which is why they look awesome, but were probably going to switch to another supplier soon. I was disappointed to hear this. My Dialed In has a Mirco playfield and I've played it a pretty decent amount for HUO, I would say 500ish plays and the PF still looks pretty nice. I will say it never cratered deep like Stern's did/do and it's smoothed out nicely with a very light "orange peel" texture to it and is still very glossy.

Who appointed you Czar of the industry?
Look, I'm a fan of Spooky also and I look forward to receiving my TNA and I buy from them with confidence. That said, TNA is an unfair comparison with its lack of ball drops, concentrated high wear areas and its newness on the market. And how you can overlook Mirco Playfields is beyond me and seems unfair.

Spooky Pinball makes great playfields but I wish you'd consider your thoughts before making such bold, over confident statements without stepping back from the cheerleading.

This must’ve went over my head...

it is a self appointed position. I was going to try for old and grumpy czar but that position is taken

Reality is that whatever new thing Spooky came up with for TNA is simply amazing. I have the experience of lots of games I maintain at home and on route that get substantially more plays than the majority of home collections ever will. In those experiences, TNA playfields are obviously a cut above the other options.

The new Mirco stuff is better than the old, but I still dont like the softness of the wood they are using and overall it is not on the same level as TNA.

TNA actually has repeated and heavy use of both ball scoop kickouts, orbits, and the drop from the shooter lane skip ramp always hitting the same place.
Aside from that, go look at their TNA test rig at Spooky that is still running with over a million ball hits/cycle to abuse the playfield and that should show you all you need to understand.

At this point, it is not a bold statement. It is factual with both test rig evidence to observe and real world experience (my own and other operators that have even super busy locations; 1 location in particular has a TNA with over 12,000 plays already and the playfield looks amazing!)

I wish you would consider your comments before understanding the experiences and worth of others opinions rather than attempting to invalidate them with silly comments liek saying they are cheerleading...

The worst thing about this thread is that we’ll have “no ribbing!” (or “no ribing”) on every other FS ad now.

Maybe, maybe not.

This one seems to have failed to capture pinside’s imagination like the ghosting and cab separation epics.

It’s almost as if it’s not a real problem, or something.

Its Stern, they are not responsible for providing you with a quality playfield.

Its been less than a day... Don't give up yet.

Yep, I've seen enough games with ribbing to consider it within production tolerances. It will probably lower the value of a game to some collectors but I haven't seen a problem with unusual wear.

It would be interesting to see if there is a difference in wear on new games that have the ribbing versus those that don't.

If anything, I would think if the ribbing is due to more grain in the wood, it might help the clear adhere to the surface better.

Nah, some of us have just abandoned ship and truly don't give a shit about it anymore because we went elsewhere with our money. In my view this so called ribbing is a cosmetic issue and doesn't affect the integrity of the playfield.

I wonder if ribbing will be a problem on the playfields tested with a sledgehammer.

Yes but they will call it Sledging

Anyone believe the guy with the anti Stern avatar truly doesn't give a shit aboot Stern anymore?

Anyone... Hello?

It's a work in progress. Thanks for reminding me about the avatar. Need to purge that too. I've had no motivation to buy Sterns in the past year at least. Star Wars was the last nail in the coffin for me. I'm not saying i'll never buy Stern again but until I see improvements my money is going elsewhere. I haven't posted anything about #wheresthecode since Nov '17. I've also sold all my Sterns (not related to the current issues, needed a change) and got Dialed In and Houdini. My TWD, Star Trek, TF LE, Tron, Ironman VE, LOTR, ACDC, Mustang and X-Men LE were all purchased knowing what flaws they had (if any). Before GB, I only had to worry about code, which was ok because I purchased most of my games once the games and been 90% finished or more. And then ghosting is normal came along and everything else, snowballed from there. I choose to put Stern in my rearview mirror now and I just need to have more productive posts. Baby steps.... I do relapse once in a while.