I've been in this hobby a long time and one of those grizzled olde
farts that has helped others learn how to fix their own machines in the past.
But there seems to be little interest in people doing their own work
anymore. Its all plug-n-play displays, supplies and CPU boards.
Too bad because with a little effort the originals can be repaired
and made reliable.

This hobby has changed a lot. Most of the chatter now is NIB, software
and quality complaints and speculating about the next over priced
machine. Not necessarily bad, just different.

Personally I enjoyed finding dead but restorable pins of all vintages
in the wild, fixing them up and either adding them to my collection or
swapping for something interesting. Feel like I'm in the minority.
Steve

For the doubters, there are STILL great people on here, check out this post, then go back and read the entire topic, WAY out of (seemingly to the rest of us) left field a hail Mary...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/future-spa-father-and-sons-second-restoration/page/13#post-4655044

pasted_image (resized).png

Just to repeat some of above:

- Pinwiki is a really good source for info.
- RGP (rec.games.pinball) is still a great place for info... .the amount of tech help that is out there is incredible (hopefully all of the old posts can still be found). Last year, I went to RGP for help when I could not find answer/help here.... and RGP came through with help . Still some great people there as well.
- Pinside still has some great tech help.

I think someone said above, what really helps is when posting tech type topics is if the subject heading is clear so people can find it later while searching.

You could start a new Pinside thread and copy what you found out on RGP. I can't stand the format on RGP so I never liked reading on there.

Pinwiki is great, but many people are still not aware of it unless links are quoted in repair threads. I try and link to it much as I can but there are still many things that are not covered there, especially game specific problems.

If you encounter a problem & solution, feel free to add it there

I just added some more info about the exploding tantalum caps on WPC pre-DCS boards since I encountered that issue this week.

I would not be anywhere near where I am now without help from Pinside. I feel confident that if I need help on a new problem, I will get it.

I spent a lot of time learning about my few 70s vintage Bally EMs. In return for all the help I received, I am willing to help anyone who has similar machines so that my meager knowledge will apply. I also have been pretty busy lately so time is always tight, but still, I will find the time to help someone with their stuck EM. I don't need money or a reward or anything, I do it just for the satisfaction period. Plus I get a perverse thrill from looking through schematics and trying to deduce what is causing a problem. Someone has a problem, I looked through it it, put together some info, they took that and got the problem fixed!.... DAY MADE

All that said, to reiterate what was posted several times above...if someone has a problem, especially when they are new and starting out, they need to slow down, be concise and clear in their communications, and be willing to go in and try things as instructed then report back so the next step can be decided. Sometimes things are not just simple and clear cut, you need to go carefully and logically go through a series of steps to get to the root of a problem. It does seem that often the OP disappears in the middle of the process so you never know what happened. Could be that they just gave up which is a shame. But I am willing to fight as long as it takes to get it working if they will work alongside, like others did for me.

What I find funny for me personally, is I received 3 emails this week for Bulb help.

I respectfully took the time to be of help, but 1, did not even reply with a Thank you,
and 2, starting disagreeing, arguing with me.

Politely, I referred them to Ryan, Melissa, Terry, etc....I mentioned I was retired.
After the help, after replying to disagreements, after the referrals, came Snarky replies...
.
They reminded me of the political social media posts of today.

I think I wont reply anymore to these.....

I've found the exact opposite to be true in my (relatively) limited time of 3 years into the hobby. Pretty much every game I have up and running was due to help here either in real time or researching old posts, and then taking what I learned and applying it next time so I end up asking less and less with each problem and can start to help other people that were once in my position. I read through some of the threads on games I own just to see what problems other people have and how they resolved them in case it ever comes up.

I'm actually consistently impressed at the number of people with these skills that are willing to give their knowledge and time away for free to try and help someone they don't know get a game working - in text format no less - just because they want to help. I certainly don't think anyone owes that to me so I am always very grateful for the help and commitment from people here and am trying my best as I go to pay it forward.

I have noticed a few threads where the person asking gets some good ideas from an experienced person here, and then proceeds to tell them why they are wrong instead of listening. Even to the point of arguing to convince the more knowledgable person why they are wrong If you aren't willing to listen then don't ask!

Pinside is WAY less helpful than it used to be. I used to get answers to my pin questions all the time, so I decided to come here with ALL my questions.

My cat was having trouble peeing, and nobody had any ideas. "Were the fuses good?" WTF?

I couldn't decide what paint color to use for our bathroom remodel. "Is it an LE or a pro?" Gee, thanks.

Pinside sucks now.

Still a lot of good knowledge in here, but frankly it is buried under a massive steaming pile of crap. Club threads have really really good info, and thousands of posts that are worthless. I get people want to gossip before a game comes out or about potential updates later on, but when you are trying to find technical information you know exists, scrolling through hundreds of posts because they contain a keyword, sucks.

Or the thousands of "What should I buy next" threads...

or the every other day, what's the next Stern machine... aren't we now at the next, next, next one.

Considering the PM thread I have going right now, there are some absolutely stellar people on this site whom I owe greatly.

Club threads with key posts are amazing. Club threads without them are a slog.

Just you, I enjoy this site.
For the most part, they people here very nice and willing to help with issues and enter friendly debates

Just like real life, there are a few jerks around, but they are easy to ignore

This. I put a lot of value on my time, and more and more I find that people don't value my time...they either want me to hold their hand through something, or tell me why they think I'm wrong, or ask me more questions that may not even be related. It's one thing when this is someone that I've sold a game to and I feel committed to helping them (whether obligated or not), but it's another when I'm just volunteering my time to help someone. It's especially insulting when that person just wants to fix a game to then sell it for top dollar, because it comes across as thinking my knowledge and time should be free but it helps make you more money. And as Art said, most of the time you don't even get thanks. I've fixed and sold a ton of games over the years but there was a lot of trial and error and money spent in the process which many don't appreciate. I would love to work on/sell more games but I'm always short on time, plus now everyone is looking for non-working games because worst case they can ask Pinside for help. Anyway, that's my rant for the day

Another answer to this, is I think you have more and more new people in the pinball hobby now. The ratio of that compared to the old hats with lots of knowledge/experience is changing, especially as the latter leave the hobby (or the world).

Language is important! Learning the language of pinball repair takes time. Doing so using written words and photos is much harder than learning in person.

I'm no seasoned pinside veteran...but from my experience, there are always people willing to help lend a hand, give advice or troubleshoot.

Before asking a question ill always use the search function to see if my question has already been asked and answered in a previous thread. Usually 3-4 key words and search by thread (not by post). This usually helps me with my problem. If that doesn't work I scan the club thread and ask there.

I don't know much and my expertise in regards to pinball is very limited. But I like to help when I can or direct someone to a thread that has the answers they need. I even got a backglass for a pinsider who accidently broke his.

I'm a big fan of paying it forward

^This^
Sadly, this is our world today and what you experienced is just so typical. Rarely do you get even a "thank you" much less anything else. People have become terminal narcissists. No, I'm not only seeing it in younger people, but just people in general.
I used to be a "pay it forward" type of guy, but not anymore.
I won't get into detail, but I recently did some pro bono work for a client of mine's daughter-decent enough person, made a few really dumb decisions and got herself in some deep financial trouble. Helped her out (on my own time, mind you) and normally this would have been around ~$2200-$3000.00 bill for her. I took care of the problem(s) and she's "financially reset" if you will. Do you think I got a "thank you" call or maybe even a small card with a note in the mail? Nope. What is really disappointing is that her mother, who is my age, has not even chimed in. I do not know what happened to common courtesy.

I do find Pinside less helpful to me personally than in the past.

Because I've learned so much the last 5 years and can now fix, or at the very least, correctly diagnosis a problem. So it's not often that I need to create a thread asking a specific question. I find the best help for a game is in the owners/club thread for that game. Asking in that game specific thread is guaranteed to grab the eyeballs of people who could assist vs a new thread that will quickly be buried.

I've never had any trouble getting help or information. I think less and less people are working on pins. I know in my neck of the woods the good deal, needs work pins are super hard to find. Even the imports are not really that good a deal unless you get lucky. I just think less and less pins need work.

A friend asked me about that once. He'd helped 2 people and never got a response. He asked me if it didn't bother me when you don't hear back. I told him no. Their game is going. I don't need my email doubled.

Though on Pinside I would like them to post what fixed it, to help others.

LTG : )

My answer, May surprise a few but here is my take.

I have another 2 weeks to go on a Xenon full restore with a new playfield swap.
Replace every light socket and rebuilt every pop bumper, slingshot and flipper assembly.
Replacing all the missing caps on the switches and many switches as well.
Adding plasma bumper tops, lighted flipper buttons, under cab lights, all posts get internal led's.
Repaired cabinet & back box wood, repainted and stenciled.
Speakers replaced, and parts on hand to rebuild known issues on sound card.
I started this on memorial day weekend. Like I said a few more weeks and I will be done.

point is I bought my first pin in February this year. Read all I could on pinside to do this. So if that means this place is going down hill or newbies are a menace I dont get it. Wouldnt have bought the xenon to restore if this board was not here.

Ok thats my 2 cents.

Worth 10K. Now.

LTG : )

Wow. If worth $10K now, then how much by Christmas?

This thread has really changed. It was soooo much better yesterday.

Arent you talking about tomorrow?

nice to see him get out and smell the roses.

Terminal narcissists. Interesting phrase.

There is a cohort of men in the world who are making the case elsewhere online that the so-called fourth-wave feminism has groomed women to view men as utilities, more than ever before. That, while women demand freedom to choose anything they want, they expect that somewhere there is always a man whose job is to rescue women from the bad choices women make, thus no gratitude from them is warranted. It's an expectation. To the extent this is true, it may be a factor here.

As a man, if you did that for me what you did for her, I'd be all over you with gratitude and also I'd at least offer you a gift of your favorite bottle of scotch.

C'mon man, even the drama sucks these days.
I haven't grabbed for popcorn in weeks......

While you're up, can you get me a beer hun.

Same, I don't mind helping people learn how to fix an issue. But I don't want to be a tech for that person, while they are drinking coffee and watching the news. They have to WANT to put the effort in and you can usually tell when a person just wants an easy answer.
I've asked my share of questions, so it seems right to pay forward when I can.

I have dozens of "Todd's Tips" videos on my channel on YouTube....and a number of before, during ,and after videos for various pinball machines. Just search on my channel for Todd's Tips. Todd

I blacked out on Trappist ales & “fixed” my TSPP but unknowingly reversed the polarity of the switch diode

Weeks later I noticed the game doing weird shit. I spent FOREVER trying to figure it out. FOREVER! Damn near sold the game as-is just to buy a new one.

A fantastic Pinsider or two helped me trace it down to the switch. Once I looked at it closely I saw the worst solder job with melted plastic & a backwards diode lol. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Like the adrenaline shot scene on Pulp Fiction. I gasped & remembered what I did. Now my TSPP is a champ again!

Bought my TWD from a local forum member

Members of this forum (and errbody else) talked me out of a WWE when it was first released

Code & QC issues are shared here to save us all heartache

So IMO this place is very helpful

It’s a great place to bicker too!

What about the third person?

I forgot to add, to what I said earlier. As a newbie I realize everything you probably need is here if you just look and search. But you have to take the time and THINK! I understand what you all are talking about as I see requests posted by some that are seeming like they have a problem but they didnt do a thing to work the problem prior to posting. Perhaps they had not ever been on a BBS forum before. I have from my days building a race car and engine building. I will spend more time doing the homework than It takes to fix the problem.

So let's see last time was my 2 cents , so this time I will throw a nickel in.

I'll be happy if you donated to Pinside since this forum is what brought us together.

Done! And thank you!

It helps.

Remember a person new to pinball and not much experience fixing things may go into full blown panic mode over their first issue.

Walk them through and help them learn and get more familiar with their game so next time it's easier. And they'll learn to search and study.

LTG : )

In the time I spent browsing this thread, I could have helped at least one person solve a problem.

If you want Pinside to "become more helpful", take action, right now.

-mof

Would it help for this thread to become a sticky?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-properly-ask-for-pinball-repair-help-vids-guide

Would it help to point more people there?
-mof

I fear common courtesy and common knowledge are not as common as they used to be.

I have gotten a lot of help here. But sometime I find that help offered goes over my head somewhat.

I think it is important to remember that when giving help, don't just say "take a jumper wire and test the curcuit", the person asking for the help may not even know where to put the wire to start with.

I have read Vid1900's how to ask a question, but maybe there needs to be a post on how to correctly anwser the question as well.

I do always try to say thanks and that I appreciate their help. I have been able to fix quite a bit of stuff with the help offered help.

Thank you for that!

That is the hardest part, trying to figure out the persons skill level or abilities.

Sometimes you have to go back and forth a bit to get them on a path that helps.

LTG : )

(This may not be a great example, but at least I'm doing what I can to guide the helper) -- your idea to prep helpers ain't bad -- perhaps you can start a thread on that...

When I ask for help, I try to remember to give context and share my skill level in that specific area. That way I can help guide the helper to talk across or down to me to be most helpful...

"Hi Pinside Helper, I am wondering if you have time to help me out with a problem <abc>...

1. I have never fixed an <abc> problem before, and so feel free to lay it out for me step by step, or send me some links to study -- I have also never <xyz> before, but I have the tools to do (xyz), but I am unfamiliar with using those tools... (like a strobe, for example)

or

2. I have fixed 10 of these problems before, and I've never had an issue like this before -- does this new problem ring a bell with you?

thanks!
-mof

It's you.