Outlane would be a death save; so yeah, cheating.

On my Rocky & Bullwinkle if you do that it actually says "nice death save" on the screen

If you have your anticheat devices adjusted properly, they should penalize you if you are overly moving the machine.

If you don't tilt, its fair.

In competitive pinball with any integrity, a slide save is illegal. End of discussion.

Tighten the tilt.
But yes an outlane drain is a drain, unless it goes fast enough to come back up of it own volition. And even then, if it auto-launched a second ball via ball save, you are playing a 2 ball MB, during single ball play. Also cheating.

Yes. Can’t have two balls in play during single ball play.

Yes, those that designed the games have for years made it so the tilt will determine who is trying to cheat or not. Anything else is just fake rules.

Your game, you chose how tight you want them.

Doesn’t matter. It’s illegal to play with multiple balls in single ball play. Also bringing a ball back into play from an outlane drain with nudging or sliding is illegal.

But even if it was fast enough that the ball bounced back into play on its own, you still have to drain one.

This....the slide save part is irrelevant. If you are so good you could do it and no one would ever know you would still have the 2 ball issue.
Balls going to outlanes and back in play is pretty common, especially with modern Sterns.

It’s an accepted IFPA/PAPA rule. And in your example you broke two of their rules.

I think its best to say that it is illegal in tournament play, but all's fair at the arcade or in your own home.

Not allowed in competitive play.

Not cheating if you are just playing a game for fun. Operator (or owner) can adjust tilt sensitivity to disallow.

Get rid of warnings is an option. And if you are playing at home or on location, it is however the owner of the game has it set up that will determine if it is cheating or not buy that and the tilt setting.

Again, anything else is just fake rules. I won't play where they make up rules that aren't in the game.

It’s silly to ask if it’s illegal outside of tournament play. There are ZERO rules when playing for fun. Haha

Tournament play sounds like a drag. Are there any other restrictions like no shirt, no shoes, no dice?

That's fine by me, a good bang back has always been an art form.

Well there are a bunch of other rules and things that make it less fun to play the actual game of course; the fun comes from the competition the same way as home.
Believe me, the IFPA can get too nerdy with the rules.

Does your competitor in tournament pay out of pocket for each game you beat him?

I'm still having a hard time grasping at what point pinball became a nerdy thing. Used to be only cool people played pinball.

If IFPA has a ban on nudging, we need to ban the IFPA or create a new organization with a real pinball philosophy. Nudging I consider an artful skill and integral to the game. Nothing will convince me otherwise. Its just dumb that you can can only interact with the machine with your fingertips.

In a home environment there is no such thing as cheating, you can pull the tilt bulb off, put a sock up the middle and lift the machine to save, rubber bands on the outlines, death saves, slide saves, bang backs, hell play with the glass off too. Home scores mean nothing in the whole scheme of things due to various setups. The only way to truly know if you are a better player than someone else is on the same game setup playing competitively within competition rules.

BTW all the above are considered "cheating" if you playing in any type of competitive play.

Tighten your tilt. Problem solved.

If we ban the IFPA does that also get rid of the nerds and their philosophies?

These must be people that were weened on video games where shaking the machine did no good.

All top competitive players in the world not only nudge, but also skillfully use up their two dangers on modern machines every ball. In fact if a machine is setup wrong they will abuse it till the cows come home to crazy scores.

Who said this?

So do these nerds actually add tilt warnings to games that by default setting did not have them?

Do you even play pinball?

The majority of machines made in the past 30 years have default tilt warnings on them normally set at 2 warnings.

I could come up with some that don't. But since you are so smart, I'll let you figure it out.

no and if there is an rebound to get it back you with out death saveing should keep it and yes games do save on outline hit and the game will track both balls.

Your house, your pin, your rules.

However, someone else's pin, tournament play, comparing scores online, then that's a different issue altogether.

I guess that is why the nerd in me said majority. Cool guy.

No, not as a “rule”
And you obviously don’t know how much fun us “nerds” have.
But that’s ok.
Comp. pinball isn’t all about rules, and they rarely really come into play during the course of most tournaments, and to most players in that tournament.
But when they are needed, they are needed, correct?
So it is nice to have a gold standard of rules, and thankfully the IFPA has provided that.
So the answer to the OPs question is obvious, and clear.
And having rules doesn’t kill the fun of competition.

Don't you know that more than a third of household injuries occur while bathing or in the shower? That’s just being downright irresponsible.

A "slide save" is generally done if the ball is heading straight down the middle "SDTM" "sliding the machine from under the ball as it is traveling so as to have it reach a flipper-tip to keep the ball in play. If a leg leveler comes out if a rubber foot it is ruled an illegal move. but if rubber foot remains in place it's considered fair play.

A "Death save" is as the OP described, ball traveling down the right outlane and when it reaches near the outhole an aggressive sliding action will have it bounce off the apron and back into play. Some games will launch another ball during ball save when it hits the outlane switch instead of the outhole switch.

If a "Lazarus" ball occurred and 2 ball were in play as the OP described it would be best to try and catch them both for a ruling to be made. usually the official would know the machine and tell you to let one ball drain, to ensure you were not penalized a ball.

I could only select one of the items in the poll. Q: Is it cheating? A: Yea, of course; Q: should it be done in "practice" at home? A: Yea, of course.

Just for your sake, I checked my High Roller Casino, a modern Stern and 2 tilt warnings is not even an option. Default is 1 and 3 is an option, but no 2.

So I guess a nerd couldn't even set it to 2 unless he rewrote the code. Fortunately, the master already rewrote his code and it is perfect just the way it is.

I'm not sure the history of "tilt warnings" Usually issued 2 tilt warnings per ball, however Jersey Jack machines are set by default 2 tilt warnings PER GAME

As pointed out above the Stern SPI adjustment doesn't even have 2 as an option. 1 or 3 or none. 1 by default. Can't remember how many others in that era are like that because they hit the road so long ago..

Lol... Just for sake of argument they use normally use the default setting for tilt warning in competitive play. Yes, you are right a few machines do have the famous 1 or 3 setting on them. TD’s won’t normally adjust a tilt warning software they will just adjust the sensitivity of the tilt bulb.

I think post 15, 16, and 17. Upon re-reading I think they were talking death save. Good. Cause I get warnings a lot. Love em.

Since we are finally coming up with some technical info in this thread beyond the fake rules, what was the first game with a tilt warning option and what was the default setting on it?

I honestly don't know or remember if I did. I guess the nerd in me now needs to know.

I only know *DANGER**DANGER* on F-14 Tomcat is a good thing

When people like TheLaw came in, that guy is a total dweeb.

In all seriousness, deathsaves are “cheating” in a tournament and whenever the rules are dictated as such.

I’m not gonna name names but at a local league we have ONE GUY who bitches up a storm and literally has IFPA rules pulled up at all times, yet he’s not even an elite player, he’s just one of those “PTA mom” types.

I personally wouldn’t like people to do deathsaves and bangbacks and power plunges on my games, but others don’t give a shit so that’s there call.

If someone SUCCESSFULLY makes a deathsave or a bangback I always find it impressive.
The problem is I watch so many dickheads slam games into walls and still tilt it out anyway.
Thanks for f@$king up my wall AND my game for nothing. Hoser!

The 1 means “Danger” and then tilt.
One warning
3 means “Danger” then “Danger Danger” then tilt. Technically your double danger is 2 warnings. So combined that’s 3 and then tilt.

Isn’t that how it works? I might be wrong on this one, it could also refer to the amount of times the tilt bob makes contact before it tilts out. 1 contact or 3 contacts.

I'd have to check it on the 3, but I have it set to factory default at 1. I'm just not in the mood to monkey with it now. Seems there was some other game with zero warnings by default, but I can't think of it at the moment.

How I set my tilt on all my games including ones without warnings is I have a few drinks and if I tilt the same machine twice in the same session it is just a tad too tight.

Sometimes I think I should just do away with all the tilt warnings on games that have them, set the bob tight, and let it ride from there.