I don't believe there was ever a reproduction made for Flip Flop. For some reason though it seems Bally back glasses from that era held up better than others. Happiness is a nice back glass, repro or original.

My understanding of the stars/no stars on the backglass on the Captain Fantastic is a late/early run variation, and not necessarily a sign of reproduction or original.

to "me", a repro bg done by the usual suspects adds value to a game over an original that is wasted...

as far as "how can you tell"... let's put it this way... if i saw a perfect backglass (no fading, no flaking, no crazing, no nothing) in a 40 year old machine, the first thing i would ask the seller was if it was a repro/nos... because very very few backglasses are perfect after 40 years... i'm also told that those with a sharp eye can pick repros out...

a big AMEN from the choir... you know how i feel about backglasses...

Love me some flipflop. I really want one. Would be my grail of the EM era, other than the Gay 90s.

shay and web put "reproduced SOMETHING SOMETHING gottlieb LLC " on the backside and is screened on so it can not be removed. some others that were done that didn't have anything stating it was a repro
nothing like finding a game with a mint bg, doesn't happen to often most have atleast a few issues.

ironically... I bought both in deal from a guy! totally random! the gay 90s has a repainted backglass and cracked glass tho

eastky.craigslist.org link

Gotta love a $100 machine.

1: A good eye with the Backglass out of the machine can usually tell if it is original or reproduction 95% of the time.

2: An original Backglass in fantastic condition will always be the most valuable and sought after. However a quality reproduction glass will never detract or be less desirable to a collector who is not looking for the perfect machine with all original parts.

I myself would take a quality reproduction glass over an original flaking POS glass any day of the week.

Ken

If condition is equal, original is always going to be worth more, in my opinion.

If the glass is Not flaking then I would Not use Triple Thick or any other sealer, just leave it alone.

Ken

Yes, as Ken says, if your glass has no issues no need to seal it.

If there's no flaking or lifting of the ink, I wouldn't seal it. Sealing is really best for glasses that need saving, not so much for just preserving (if the ink is already OK).

There used to be (like 15-20 years ago) a premium placed on the original 'no stars' version of CF backglasses, but as EM values have retracted/leveled off in the last few years, and with the availability of quality repros, I'd say that premium is now gone.

as others have said, don't seal it... "sealing it" doesn't really "protect it", it merely slows existing peeling... in a home environment, if the backglass is currently "good", it should "remain good"...

true... that being said, if the "original" is equal in condition to the repro:

1) it would be very unusual...

2) there'd be no reason to buy a repro...

i have 2 bg's from the webb's... i also have another machine that has a very good original backglass... however, that "very good" backglass is noticeably flawed when comparing it to the repro...

it's not just flaking, crazing and so on... it's the frikken fading... especially on gottlieb's, it seems like anything "red" has very little chance of not being "pink" now...

A cosmetically good looking backglass is a state of happiness. Few care if its original or repro.

I hear we are very close, technology wise, in being able to inexpensively reproduce a backglass. Probably something laid down on plexiglass.

There is a thread on here about the long term affects of Triple Thick. After several years it ruins the backglass. Soooo, I would most definitely NOT seal it.

yup, true dat... i can generally deal with ratty cabinets and a bit of pf damage... but man, i LOVE pretty backglasses... i have moved heaven and earth looking for a "good one" for my pro football (to no avail)...

i hope so... now all that has to happen is for people to get licensing...

I think Triple Thick is fine in a temperature controlled environment. I have glasses that have been sealed for years with no signs of any problems. I have heard it does not do well in the cold? Or maybe it's quick temp changes, but then ink doesn't like that either.

With that said I only ever seal a glass that requires touch-ups or ink stabilization.

If it is a high end game, then original vs reproduction probably means a lot

For a game that you own for nostalgic reasons , you are just happy to have the game, who care if it is original or not

That's not been my experience. I have glasses that have been sealed for several years with Triple Thick with no issues. They don't get exposed to super cold or hot temps though either.

I have no concern in using it to seal a glass that really needs it (i.e. to prevent further ink from being lost that has already started the process).

i did a test this winter, i had a domino bg that had some lifting 25% i sealed it with triple thick a put it in the garage
i would heat the garage one or twice a week to 65-75 deg F and the other times the garage would go down to almost outside temp. this is se pa area and this winter was way below normal very cold single digits at night and only 20's in the for a good part of it.
the glass had some quick temp changes and i don't see any issues. i did this because i split my collection between in the house and the garage/work shop. i always pull the BG out ofthe pins in the garage in OCT and put them back in in April. the domino glass was replaced by a webb glass so i wanted to see how bad the glass would get in the cold with big temp changes.
i seal even good glass, because if pulling the out from time to time it is easy to scratch the and the triple thick gives it a little more protection
over 14 years i have never had an issue with any glass that was sealed

It's very easy to make backglass replacements. Either on tempered glass or plexi. Hard to get people to do or supply art files. Most rights owners are open to new vendors producing. Gottlieb LLC & Planetary Pinball will likely ok it if that title isn't assigned to a vendor.

www.greatpinball.com

I'm always looking for projects & have glass for sale on Ebay or private. Licensee of both companies & do Stern & custom work.

My new tempered glass is printed on a OCE, 2 hits color, 2 hits white, blocking gray (lush black Bally/Williams), & Gottlieb LLC glass gets license text to bottom back. I use correct thickness size of glass!

Here is a example of a latest test for Planetary Pinball.

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I agree, but there are some, even on here, who get their panties in a wad about repro backglasses. They want "original" even if original looks like absolute crap.

yup... that is true...

treading gently here...

i look at it this way... we aren't restoring the mona lisa here, and my home isn't a museum... i have pins to play and to tinker with... if an aftermarket bg/part/modification makes it prettier/easier to deal with, any thought of "originality" goes right out the window...

but that is me, and i understand that others come at this hobby from a different angle, and i freely admit that i am a heathen... however, even those who insist upon "everything must be original and the way it came from the factory" do not hesitate to replace broken/worn targets with repros, replace metal sleeves with nylon ones, doesn't use lithium grease, and so on...

imo, everyone draws their line in the sand in a different spot and exercises "selective originality"... some may draw that line more severely than others, but they are still drawing it...

hopefully that doesn't get me evicted from the em club...

Neo had at least one bad experience with Triple-thick. I think he stated a cold environment caused the ink and the Triple-thick to all come off the glass.

As everyone else is saying here, our experience has shown that with proper application and avoiding high humidity and extreme cold or hot to cold variations in temperatures, these treated glasses hold up well.

The same argument was said for Cover Your Glass years ago from what I had read so I think most of us can agree it is still beneficial to use Triple-thick only to save a glass where the paint has started lifting. The odds are in our favor.

Not at all. But there are some who don't even want touchups on the cab, playfield etc. However, they'll re-rubber games, fix broken stuff, etc. At what point isn't it "original" any more?

Backglasses with flaked off ink, bulbs showing through etc are awful. Now, you don't want something that looks like a kid with a crayon did it but most of the guys doing repros now are way better than that. So insisting that you want a repro that is done exactly like the factory did it, to me, is silly, because techniques have changed and mostly for the better. And I'll say that I've seen repros that are supposedly factory original like work, and the colors are off from the original, sometimes by a wide margin.

I've had people turn down a great playing game, with well done touchups and a repro glass, simply because it wasn't original. Well, I have the original glass and it's junk, if you want, I'll put it back in and then do we have a deal?

If you pull a game out of a damp basement that looks like it sat dormant for a while, you may want to seal it before firing it up!

I found a beautiful Slick Chick in such an environment. Purchased and brought it home to my heated garage, (forced hot DRY air). After repairing and jamming on it with a few friends about 5-6 hours, the glass no longer looked the same. I also found a Race Time with a nice backglass in the same element. I brought it home and without plugging it in, sold it to a friend some 3 hours away. A month later when he finally arrived for pick-up, it wasn't the same either, (even without exposure to the dry heat of burning #47 bulbs). The glasses weren't ruined, just noticed a few minor changes.

Not necessarily disagreeing with the above captioned statement, but when I saw differences, I've decided to give backglasses a shot of triple thick before I fire them up. If they still deteriorate in some way, I probably won't be as disappointed.