I am wondering if paying thousands of dollars for a high end restoration is worth it to most people. I enjoy shopping my pins and usually the ones I buy are in need of a good cleaning and some repairs. I find this to be a fun part of the hobby. Spending the money to have someone restore it will probably make the pin more reliable, but you will still run into problems down the road.
I enjoy the cleanup and repair side too..... but high end resto is something else. If I had the $$ I would love at least one in my collection. The lengths that these pros go to are well beyond the powers of mortal men.
This thread from a couple of years ago provides some insight that was provided at that time.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-is-full-restoration-worth-it#post-1576515
Gord
When you get your holy grail ( mine is SURF CHAMP ) a professional restore with all the bells and whistles will ensure it's longevity and possible $$$ further down the track.
I left the cabinet as is on this, but EVERYTHING was rebuilt, clear coated, tidied up, cleaned and tweaked within an inch of its life by APR here in Australia. Stunning and very Stoked
This picture will not do her justice.
Absolutely!!! If it is a machine that you truly love why not go all the way and do a high end restoration for it. You have no plans
of flipping it and plan to have it a long time....then I don't see any problem with it. The play a lot better that most beaters or heavily routed machines as well if done right.
I say not. The joy of having a restoration is doing it yourself. Taking a way cheap beat up example and making it look better than new is fantastic. But over the years, they get just as dirty as everything else and time takes a toll.
Quoted from smiley:I am wondering if paying thousands of dollars for a high end restoration is worth it to most people.
Not to me because I enjoy playing pinball, not collecting museum pieces. I have no problem enjoying a pin that has playfield wear or cabinet fade and scratches. But to each their own, not my thousand$ being spent on a restore.
Having done many of these restorations for many different types of people over the years I see it working one of two ways normally but there are gray areas.
1)Financially it is no burden to you at all.These are actors,basketball team owners etc.
2)You really love the game and or want the nicest example you can get taking guess work out of that..This is important to you for some reason in particular.
These are the typical real hobbyist and what truly fuels the hobby.
I always enjoy working with real hobbyist most for that reason.
Unless you have other obligations or kids that you might want to leave some money to some day, why not!? You can't take it with you and you might as well keep the money in circulation.
It's rare that I've played a high end restored game that played as well as most unrestored games, so I say no.
I use the same equivalent income that would have been spent on a high end restoration to buy more machines.
In many cases, we are talking between $4-10K per machine, if you want a true HEP.
You can buy a LOT more machines, anywhere between 6-8 EMs, or 4 SS machines with that amount of money.
Keep in mind as well that the money spent on the HEP can greatly outprice the value of the machine itself, and may take years or even decades to accrue any sort of equivalent value, so don't expect to "flip" the game for the equivalency. The secondary market is already slowing down due to a number of factors.
However, if this is your "holy grail", go for it, as that is not the point anyway.
"A person can fulfill any dream if they have a plan. This includes hobbies like pinball. Why spend money and pay others when you can just do the work yourself?"
I prefer to know I did the job.
Anybody can do it, if they are willing to embrace restoration and not in a rush.
The other benefit is you learn about the title and know its' nuances.
I think the super chrome coin door ,rails, leg new art etc. gives games a whole different feel ... I guess I get in a oooooo shiney haze ... They're just so beautiful I appreciate every little detail .... I've seen really done up machines at some shows and thought I'd love to own that. To me worth it and someday I hope to
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I say not. The joy of having a restoration is doing it yourself. Taking a way cheap beat up example and making it look better than new is fantastic. But over the years, they get just as dirty as everything else and time takes a toll.
I'm guessing most people who use hep aren't the kinds of people who put a lot of mileage on their machines.
for me, no
I like to play, a few bumps, scratches and a little fade does not diminish the fun I have playing a game
Quoted from oldskool1969:When you get your holy grail ( mine is SURF CHAMP ) a professional restore with all the bells and whistles will ensure it's longevity and possible $$$ further down the track.
I left the cabinet as is on this, but EVERYTHING was rebuilt, clear coated, tidied up, cleaned and tweaked within an inch of its life by APR here in Australia. Stunning and very Stoked
This picture will not do her justice.
Hi Oldskool1969 - Were you glad you had APR do your restoration? How do they calculate the fee - is it labour charged per the hour + materials? I'm interested to find out your impressions and experience with them. Cheers.
Quoted from Rondogg:I'm guessing most people who use hep aren't the kinds of people who put a lot of mileage on their machines.
that's true. Remember the old RGP troll (we won't say his name). Every machine he had was HEP. Never played them, just would turn them on to look at them. Every game was plagued with error codes because they were never played. The room would echo with the all too common, bong bong bong. when the whole room was flipped on with one light switch. 
For some reason many many games with screen printed cabinets have been restored and decals then used.
A lot of times because of a few marks and a bit of fade.
Spend 100's of bucks on some stickers, put them on and then watch them wrinkle.
Ok, since the Stern leg protectors were introduced, wrinkling decals are way less common now, but talk about making a game worse.....
'The enemy of good is better'.......
I hate wrinkled decals btw 
I look at it primarily from a financial perspective, so for me it depends not only on the machine but how much you value your time.
I do all my own high end restoration work (cabinet decals, new playfield, chrome trim and chrome coin door et al) and I would never consider doing the high end treatment with that amount of labour and monetary outlay involved for any machine that isn't certified by the community as an A list machine unless I had a client/buyer already arranged who was willing to pay the quoted priced on a B list or below machine.
With machines like AFM, TOTAN, CV, MM and the like you can be assured there will always be a market for an "over the top" ground up restoration so you aren't in essence simply pouring money into a bottomless pinball pit.
I doubt I would go to the same labour/ monetary outlay for a Fish Tales as I would for a Medieval Madness.
Quoted from pinsanity:I look at it primarily from a financial perspective, so for me it depends not only on the machine but how much you value your time.
I do all my own high end restoration work (cabinet decals, new playfield, chrome trim and chrome coin door et al) and I would never consider doing the high end treatment with that amount of labour and monetary outlay involved for any machine that isn't certified by the community as an A list machine unless I had a client/buyer already arranged who was willing to pay the quoted priced on a B list or below machine.
With machines like AFM, TOTAN, CV, MM and the like you can be assured there will always be a market for an "over the top" ground up restoration so you aren't in essence simply pouring money into a bottomless pinball pit.
I doubt I would go to the same labour/ monetary outlay for a Fish Tales as I would for a Medieval Madness.
Nice work. 
Quoted from CaptainNeo:that's true. Remember the old RGP troll (we won't say his name). Every machine he had was HEP. Never played them, just would turn them on to look at them. Every game was plagued with error codes because they were never played. The room would echo with the all too common, bong bong bong. when the whole room was flipped on with one light switch.
Was that the douche with the kong? Landscaper?
Quoted from Rondogg:Was that the douche with the kong? Landscaper?
"blown out"
Quoted from Rondogg:I'm guessing most people who use hep aren't the kinds of people who put a lot of mileage on their machines.
If I had a game restore by hep I'd play the ___ out of it. But I only have a pf of his. And when It goes in I won't be just looking at it.
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:It's rare that I've played a high end restored game that played as well as most unrestored games, so I say no.
I respect your opinion of "no" but how can you possibly say high end restored games don't play as well?
Quoted from Rondogg:Was that the douche with the kong? Landscaper?
not it was the other douche with satellite TV.
Quoted from Multiball1:I respect your opinion of "no" but how can you possibly say high end restored games don't play as well?
They do seem to take a bit to break in .....
I have owned a number of HEP games and for me, a big part of owning these games is that it is like getting something that is brand new that you simply cannot buy brand new, and for the most part, they have far fewer problems than just a shopped machine because everything has been gone over (especially the boards) with a fine toothed comb.
Having said this, if you do decide to do a non "top-tier" game like, for example, JY or NGG, you will definitely take a hit when you go to sell because the market is so small for a high end restore of these titles and if someone wants one of that caliber, they will most likely just have one restored so they can have that "brand new" experience.
If it is your grail game and it isn't ever leaving, then I think it it absolutely worth it.
It is irrellavant if paying for a high end restoration is worth it to most people. It only matters if it is worth it to the person who is paying for it. If not, don't do it. I have several HEP restorations. To me they were worth the expense and I enjoy playing them. As funds become available, I'm sure I will have several more machines restored. And some of them will never return the dollar investment, such as my black nickle CFTBL. But it is not necessarily a financial investment, but rather an investment in what one enjoys.
Some may prefer MMr over a HEP MM. Others may prefer a player's machine. But why be concerned over other people's preferences?
By the way…HEP does beautiful work.
For me its the journey,therapy and finally the achievement. I have always enjoyed making thing better. I remember tearing apart bicycles as a kid. repainting them,steel-wool on the spokes.finding the banana seat or long front forks. I remember building that three level tree-house. Any building inspector in his right mind would have condemned it but who cares it was awesome.
Some of us just enjoy the process of making old shit new again.
Quoted from Magic_Mike:I wouldn't recommend doing a high end restoration on a B or C title, but that's just me.
In the midst of restoring a Bally Atlantis, I love it. not sure if I will play it much but what a work of art.
First the hunt,Playfield check,plastics check,ramps,if available,check .Then the pin, I know its out there. Make the deal.Play it a bit.If it works, tear it down to the bones. Begin the process.Scrub,polish ,buff,repair,replace ,clear it,add new crisp art. Then tweak it,get every switch to work ,every mech to preform.
A beautiful piece of American art.
Then play the SHIT out of it! 
Quoted from PinSinner:Hi Oldskool1969 - Were you glad you had APR do your restoration? How do they calculate the fee - is it labour charged per the hour + materials? I'm interested to find out your impressions and experience with them. Cheers.
Fixed price, I believe Nino has a bit of a wait at the moment though.
I was always informed of updates and if you have patience ( due to long lead times, mine was a year and a half in the making ) it is WELL worth it and this beauty is now a family heirloom.
Quoted from oldskool1969:Fixed price, I believe Nino has a bit of a wait at the moment though.
I was always informed of updates and if you have patience ( due to long lead times, mine was a year and a half in the making ) it is WELL worth it and this beauty is now a family heirloom.
Thanks for the info.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:For some reason many many games with screen printed cabinets have been restored and decals then used.
A lot of times because of a few marks and a bit of fade.
Spend 100's of bucks on some stickers, put them on and then watch them wrinkle.
Ok, since the Stern leg protectors were introduced, wrinkling decals are way less common now, but talk about making a game worse.....
'The enemy of good is better'.......
I hate wrinkled decals btw
Sometimes you don't have a choice. I just got a mystery castle last week. Cabinet has multiple chips that could be easily filled and touched up. No need for decals there. The left side of the cabint and the front left of the cabinet had paint run. The left side could be wiped down and left. The front? I have a inch to inch a half wide path from top to bottom. At some point unless you want to airbrush the majority of the cabinet a decal is the better way of dealing with it.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:I use the same equivalent income that would have been spent on a high end restoration to buy more machines. In many cases, we are talking between $4-10K per machine, if you want a true HEP. You can buy a LOT more machines, anywhere between 6-8 EMs, or 4 SS machines with that amount of money.
But this argument doesn't really work if you're out of space. Most collector's only have a finite amount of space dedicated to their pins. Once they've reached their limit, they continue to enhance their collections by upgrading to nicer examples.
Yes for grail pins, I speak from experience as I'm about to do a complete restore and I will be using pro help for stuff I'm less confident on and want a professional finish on, cabinet is trashed so I'll have a cabinet made to as close as possible to an original SEGA cab (I'll be adding Stern lollipop rails that's one change I'll be making) with HD decals I've got made and in hand, plus all the powder coating.
I'm a huge Bond fan so I brought a SEGA Goldeneye years ago because it was Bond, so for me it was a grail theme, the fact I love the game just made it even sweeter. Goldeneye isn't worth a huge amount on the market but I've probably spent twice its value buying up NOS parts - playfield, decals, plastic set, ramps, satellite dishes, new boards, all new mechs and mechinacal parts, translite, literally everything will be new except for the wiring harness 
Will I get my money back not a chance! But will it be "worth it?" Yes, to me and that's all that matters imo.
Absolutely, and absolutely not at the same time. For some games it's worth it to me. I think smart people purchase them on the secondary market when they pop up and save several grand though.
Quoted from J85M:Yes for grail pins, I speak from experience as I'm about to do a complete restore and I will be using pro help for stuff I'm less confident on and want a professional finish on, cabinet is trashed so I'll have a cabinet made to as close as possible to an original SEGA cab (I'll be adding Stern lollipop rails that's one change I'll be making) with HD decals I've got made and in hand, plus all the powder coating.
I'm a huge Bond fan so I brought a SEGA Goldeneye years ago because it was Bond, so for me it was a grail theme, the fact I love the game just made it even sweeter. Goldeneye isn't worth a huge amount on the market but I've probably spent twice its value buying up NOS parts - playfield, decals, plastic set, ramps, satellite dishes, new boards, all new mechs and mechinacal parts, translite, literally everything will be new except for the wiring harness
Will I get my money back not a chance! But will it be "worth it?" Yes, to me and that's all that matters imo.
Such a great game and worthy of a premium restoration - what color are you powder coating the ramps?
Quoted from Rondogg:Such a great game and worthy of a premium restoration - what color are you powder coating the ramps?
GOLD
I need to workout what will hold up better, plating the ramps or powder coating them? I'm open to experience and suggestions.
I believe when the pin came out of the factory the wire forms where plated gold, they certainly look that way and I want to get a real bright shiny gold finish which I'm not sure powder coat will give me? So I'll probably go down that route as I want to restore it as close to factory as possible with a few upgrades along the way like lollipop rails and custom toys to replace the crappy factory ones.
Quoted from J85M:GOLD
I need to workout what will hold up better, plating the ramps or powder coating them? I'm open to experience and suggestions.
I believe when the pin came out of the factory the wire forms where plated gold, they certainly look that way and I want to get a real bright shiny gold finish which I'm not sure powder coat will give me? So I'll probably go down that route as I want to restore it as close to factory as possible with a few upgrades along the way like lollipop rails and custom toys to replace the crappy factory ones.
I'm having my wire forms replated this winter myself. I did mine in as much amber as I could find. Golds and reds fit that theme perfect.
If you haven't already, check out the club here. Also, excellent restoration here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sega-goldeneye-restoration
Just an awesome underrated machine. Perfect for that slot in your lineup that needs a game with a lot of ramps.
Quoted from J85M:GOLD
I need to workout what will hold up better, plating the ramps or powder coating them? I'm open to experience and suggestions.
I believe when the pin came out of the factory the wire forms where plated gold, they certainly look that way and I want to get a real bright shiny gold finish which I'm not sure powder coat will give me? So I'll probably go down that route as I want to restore it as close to factory as possible with a few upgrades along the way like lollipop rails and custom toys to replace the crappy factory ones.
Definitely go the plating route, rather than the powdercoating for the ramps. It will look much more high end and the finish will be far superior to anything you can achieve with powdercoating. I use genuine 24k gold for ramp plating which are then hardcoated for protection and durability. Looks great but costly due to using genuine gold so I typically only use this material when plating items with small surface areas (e.g. wireform ramps).
If you don't want to do genuine gold plating you can also look into coloured (or candy) chrome plating which are available in a variety of colours. Lower cost than genuine gold and slightly more costly than regular "silver" chrome plating, but well worth it and unlike powdercoating it still maintains the reflective metallic finish of plating.
Here is a comparison shot between the two types from various machines. Wireforms and the IJ idol are genuine gold plated, whilst the siderails and lockdown are candy gold chrome plated.
Good luck with whatever route you choose.
Cheers pinsanity for the advice and it's really helpful to see a side by side comparison. Either option looks stunning but the 24k gold certainly looks a step up from the coloured/candy finish, I think I will probably enquire about genuine gold plating and see what the guys say.
I have attached some images showing the finish/colour I had in mind, no idea if it's a coloured candy finish or real gold but it looks pretty good on the wireforms in the playfield.
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