(Topic ID: 171050)

Is greed finally going to kill pinball?


By hardware

2 years ago



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  • 105 posts
  • 72 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by cooldan
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 105 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 2 years ago

I believe we are getting closer. Less and less people are buying in at these prices.

26
#2 2 years ago

I have no idea what's going to come of these inflated prices but one things for sure, this hobby has officially gone Bonkers!

#3 2 years ago

Short answer - NOPE!

#4 2 years ago

It's disgusting---- the prices...There's gonna be 12 rich people just selling to each other!

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from Lefman:

It's disgusting---- the prices...There's gonna be 12 rich people just selling to each other!

Haha that's what we said aboot BM66 and that shit sold in seconds. I'm reading the car threads here everyone seems to own $100k+ cars...these folks don;t seem to hard up for cash.

#6 2 years ago

My top that I can purchase nib is around 6500... heck. Used even. I can't justify higher priced pins... no matter how cool they are.

#7 2 years ago

I'm hoping trades become more the norm. We both can pretend they are worth 6k when swapped, but guessing mine will always be worth 3k to his 6 lol.

15
#8 2 years ago

"GREEEEEED..." *door creaking*

#9 2 years ago

These crazy prices will eventually hurt pinball manufactures! Game sales are going to drop and their going to blame it on the theme when in actuality it may be an amazing game just to pricey for home owners and vendors. After two or three new releases raising prices hoping to make up for their losses they'll eventually figure out what's really going on. By then it'll be too late causing another chain reaction within; job cuts, game design fatigue (quality) etc. This could take years to fix... I can see some manufactures going out of business because of it. Certainly hope to see some price cutting moving forward...

#10 2 years ago

Doubt it. It hasn't killed the people I work for....

15
#11 2 years ago

What was the most anticipated day I have seen in pinball the last 5 years has turned into the most disappointing and depressing for my view of the hobby. The greed is disgusting and will tarnish the historical record of those involved in the management of the pinball manufacturing companies.

#12 2 years ago

I stopped buying NIB a few years ago because of the ridiculous/constant price increases with no true improvements to the games... but it seems like I was in the minority when I stopped buying, because Stern kept getting massive pre-orders and LE sell-outs even with the higher prices and crappy code.

I have my collection and I'm going to enjoy what I have and play the newer games on location or at someone else's house. Good for them for dropping $30K and ending up with 3 games.

18
#13 2 years ago

I place a value on things. If they are priced above that value, I don't buy them. If they want to price above what I want to spend, then they don't want me as a customer. I was just buying Pros mostly anyway. I spent 8k on a game, but never felt it had 8k worth of value to me. So they have priced me out of NIB because they feel a single overpriced SLE is better than my minor stream of Pro games. Fine.

#14 2 years ago

No, don't be silly. Nothing can kill pinball.

We might see a couple of companies go the way of the Dodo though.

#16 2 years ago

Where do I sign up for this greed?

#17 2 years ago

Zzzzzzzz...

Pinball manufacturing is a BUSINESS. The companies EMPLOY people. If the product doesn't SELL. Prices will ADJUST.

RELAX...if you aren't comfortable buying new games at current prices wait until they are in your pricerange and be happy with the games you deem affordable.

Ughhh, I sound like a dick but the price complaining is getting tiresome.

#18 2 years ago

New pinball machine sales will be one of the casualties when the U.S. economy collapses sometime in 2017 (after the election of course). The national debt is getting way too large. People will still have existing machines in their collections, make trades (temporary or permanent), bring machines to regional festivals and expos, hold local league and tournament events.
Hope it doesn't happen, but seems to be staring right at us.

#19 2 years ago

Hang on to your britches. It could be a bumpy ride. And we get a new president to boot.

-1
#20 2 years ago
Quoted from Spitfiren8:

Zzzzzzzz...
Pinball manufacturing is a BUSINESS. The companies EMPLOY people. If the product doesn't SELL. Prices will ADJUST.
RELAX...if you aren't comfortable buying new games at current prices wait until they are in your pricerange and be happy with the games you deem affordable.
Ughhh, I sound like a dick but the price complaining is getting tiresome.

I couldn't agree more.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-is-great:

New pinball machine sales will be one of the casualties when the U.S. economy collapses sometime in 2017 (after the election of course). The national debt is getting way too large. People will still have existing machines in their collections, make trades (temporary or permanent), bring machines to regional festivals and expos, hold local league and tournament events.
Hope it doesn't happen, but seems to be staring right at us.

Could you ensure the economy collapse happens before July next year please ? I am going to Florida on holiday and the pound is currently very weak against the dollar. Thank you.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Hang on to your britches. It could be a bumpy ride. And we get a new president to boot.

But will he be a pinball player?

Would a trump pinball sell?

#23 2 years ago

Collecting Pinball machines is like an addiction. I think people will continue to pay these crazy prices to get their fix. For example, a pack of cigarettes in Australia currently costs between $25-$30 per pack. That doesn't seem to stop people I know from smoking multiple packs per week.

Prices will stay this high while people are willing to pay. For now I'll just have to go hunting to find one of these new pins on site somewhere. Fingers crossed.

#24 2 years ago

The end is near...

#25 2 years ago

This doesn't just affect owning the game. Location prices will rise also. A local operator mentioned a 3 games for $5 possibly becoming the norm. I hope not. Location games were how I was able to play the newer pins.

#26 2 years ago

I'm not complaining about price. It's simple, I don't pay if I don't see the value. Even if it excludes me I hope people are enjoying new pinball machines in the years to come.

-2
#27 2 years ago

No,because AP will take over from the titans.
And sell cheap games

#28 2 years ago

I won't even buy a used old game at a price that I feel is inflated, let alone new. If it's too high I'll watch them sit on CL or EBay and rot. I'm watching a crapload of these right now. Ridiculous asking prices and they sit. If new pins manufactured are priced too high then they will go out of business. Who cares?

#29 2 years ago

Prices may be going up. But why do you think mere greed is the reason? If you think hard or do some research you will probably discover greed is not the reason.

Jack

#30 2 years ago

You all wanted everything, companies built it and now want there return on investment. boo hoo
Careful what you wish for hey! ha ha

#31 2 years ago

Take your blinders off people.

The same whiny hypocrites are part of the crowd that caused what's going on!!!

There is a large faction of pinball buyers that are in it to try and flip a GBLE for $9500 while paying $8k

Have you seen how many RZ pins have been up for sale from the "greedy" pinball people?

If there wasn't a buying frenzy this wouldn't be happening!

We just hit a brick wall with the ridiculous JJP $9k pin at 6,999 LE's. Flip that.

#32 2 years ago

10k by Christmas used to be funny now it's just sad $9000 dollars even for an operator how can the cost be justified? Start charging $2 per play? No one will line up. I was excited for JJP #3 but 7000 LE's for 9000 ($13730 CDN) and CE's for 12,500 ($19078 CDN) that is just crazy talk. And then Stern follows suit with their BM66. They've just killed 85% of the collectors market in one sweep. $7k CDN was my ceiling. Guess no more NIB games for me. Oh well.

#33 2 years ago

Wish I could see the marketing reports and analysis that shows how they derive demand for $9000+ Nib pinball machines. What demographic do they think will put down that much money in significant quantity?

Given that dialed in will have an initial production run of up to 7k units, which is a massive amount, pretty sure you'll be able to get the game a year or two (maybe even sooner) after release for well below 9k, even if the game is a success, which I hope it is.

#35 2 years ago

Biggest bargain: $4350 for Alien playfield kit.

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

10k by Christmas used to be funny now it's just sad $9000 dollars even for an operator how can the cost be justified? Start charging $2 per play? No one will line up. I was excited for JJP #3 but 7000 LE's for 9000 ($13730 CDN) and CE's for 12,500 ($19078 CDN) that is just crazy talk. And then Stern follows suit with their BM66. They've just killed 85% of the collectors market in one sweep. $7k CDN was my ceiling. Guess no more NIB games for me. Oh well.

Quoted from Geocab:

This doesn't just affect owning the game. Location prices will rise also. A local operator mentioned a 3 games for $5 possibly becoming the norm. I hope not. Location games were how I was able to play the newer pins.

$2/1 credit or $5/3 credits is the standard for most pinball machines out in the wild here in Australia...

#37 2 years ago

There is no such thing as "greed". The marketplace won't allow any given price to exist...if more people (like all the ones reading this thread) buy, the price goes up. If fewer people buy, the price goes down.

These JJP prices strike me as the equivalent of Ebay "Buy it Now" prices. Some people will buy it now, and a lot more people won't. Personally, I can't believe the 7,000 piece production number at these prices. And if it was really announced by JJP, that would be the dumbest marketing move ever. It screams "No rush, take your time, you've got years and years to decide", it suggests that the early adopters have zero "investment" upside and a good bit of downside, and it puts JJP in a spot where they will be selling most of those 7,000 games in the in competition with the used, mostly HUO market.

Stay tuned for the JJP financing deal...no money down, 3% interest, just $250 a month for the next five years.

#38 2 years ago
Quoted from JoeGrenuk:

Stay tuned for the JJP financing deal...no money down, 3% interest, just $250 a month for the next five years.

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#39 2 years ago

Come on guys... let's be honest. The vast majority of people that are upright and walking around on this planet don't care about pinball.

Perhaps my sample is unrepresentative, but all of my friends (and my kids friends) that frequent my home could really give two craps about pinball. Perhaps for 5 minutes while they chimp the flippers... but then it's OVER. They walk away and want to get on with life.

How in the world does JJP expect operators to pay $9K for a game that is going to be out-earned 100-times over by a claw machine full of 5-cent stuffed animals.

These companies have lost their minds.

Thank goodness we have decades of cool machines to repair and play with.

#40 2 years ago

I'm going to greedily collect all of the early Bally's that I can while I watch fools pay 9K for games with no soul. Not sure if my greed will kill pinball though.

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I'm going to greedily collect all of the early Bally's that I can while I watch fools pay 9K for games with no soul. Not sure if my greed will kill pinball though.

I don't think your greed will kill pinball. JJP and Stern will hopefully get the hint and prices will come down eventually. Either that or (political statement removed by Mod )and the stock market will crash. Everything will come down then.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I'm going to greedily collect all of the early Bally's that I can while I watch fools pay 9K for games with no soul. Not sure if my greed will kill pinball though.

IMG_0532 (resized).JPG

#43 2 years ago

In my opinion, the Super LEs are here to stay.

Take a theme like Star Wars. 700 LEs will easily sell out at $8,500. Add in another 100 SLEs at $12,500, which should easily sell out. That's an additional $400,000 in revenue for probably no more than $15,000 of extra cost to build the SLEs.

I can assure you that successful companies, tend to be really good at math.

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from jackd104:

Prices may be going up. But why do you think mere greed is the reason? If you think hard or do some research you will probably discover greed is not the reason.
Jack

I'll bite.

Let's ignore the 9K DI for now. DICE is $3,500 more and they don't even know what will be extra compared to DI??

I personally think JJ is doing an experiment to see how dumb people are. How can you magically come up with a price when you don't know the BOM?

#45 2 years ago

I am sure that all the people that work in the Stern production lines have had huge pay increase since the games keep going up.

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I'm going to greedily collect all of the early Bally's that I can while I watch fools pay 9K for games with no soul.

This kind of sparked my attention. What does it mean for a game to have "soul"? I'm serious. I understand what you mean, but it's hard to put into words. Among the new games, I think Dialed In comes closest...maybe?

#47 2 years ago
Quoted from Russell:

This kind of sparked my attention. What does it mean for a game to have "soul"? I'm serious. I understand what you mean, but it's hard to put into words. Among the new games, I think Dialed In comes closest...maybe?

Maybe Dailed In will have some soul. Unfortunately I have to spend a lot of time on a cell phone for work and a lot of time responding to stuff at night on one. I have zero desire to play a game with one in it as the primary feature. I play pinball to get away from that crap.

As far as soul it is hard to put into words. I find it's more about games that are complete packages. Meaning well designed shot map that shoots correctly, artwork that fits the theme and pulls you into the game, sounds and callouts that are diverse and build the atmosphere of the game and change to build pressure and suspense, code that fits the theme and is balanced between risk and reward.

#48 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

How in the world does JJP expect operators to pay $9K for a game that is going to be out-earned 100-times over by a claw machine full of 5-cent stuffed animals.

as an operator I have no intention of buying a $9k game for location play, no way... and you have no idea how close you are with the claw machine comment... when I look at how much the claw machine earns vs the pins I wonder why I do this... but then I see some kid and his dad playing pinball and I remember...

#49 2 years ago

I don't think greed will kill pinball. I think the companies will react to what we do. I do hope the market response is that the demand dwindles.

Then, I think/hope that companies like Stern/JJP would adapt to stay in step with what their consumers are telling them with their wallets.

It really depends on what the consumers do.

#50 2 years ago

This question was already asked....On RGP in 1999 and every year after. Then on Pinside in 2011 and every year after. Somehow there is no end to the supply of people willing to pay more and more until one day there is an end.... and then... see the bubble thread.

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