Frontier would be a good one. Fathom is good but not great. More of a collectors piece. Gameplay is just a bit repetitive. Looks and sounds great though.

I've had

Ebd
Centaur
Seawitch
Big game

And owned a ton of other s.s.

Fathom has always eluded me cause of the price...5k is alot for an unrestored fathom. It's just so much money for a s.s. I just can justify it. Sure it's fun to play but I dont believe it's better then Q.S. or even star gazer even though star gazer did leave. If you could find a 3k fathom I'd scoop it up for sure but 5k is too rich for my blood on a s.s.

Yeah frontier is awesome and way cheaper

When it comes to some of those older titles that fetch big money, personally I think it's mostly collectible factor driving the price on those, rather than the gameplay factor. So don't get fooled by thinking more $$$ = more fun with those titles.

Yes, some of those titles play well, but for instance, compare Fathom in the $4k+ range against The Shadow in the $3500+ range. The Shadow is mainly driven by gameplay value, rather than collector's pricing. TS is not too difficult to find, but a lot of people enjoy playing it. And then compare that against Congo ($5k+) where the gameplay isn't quite as good, but they're much more difficult to find, and a bit more collectible.

So, would I like to own a fathom? Sure! Do I want to pay $4k+ for one? Oh heck no. I have more fun with other games around a similar price point, that to me, offer more bang per buck and have a higher replay value.

Fathom definitely gets extra points for its art, but it's not like it's a bad game otherwise. It's a very good game in my opinion, but because it costs more than similar games of the time, it also attracts extra criticism. Lots of people eager to say "it's not *that* good," basing that off the price.

These just appeared at the bottom of the page...yikes

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I used to own a Fathom back when they were 3k not long ago. Although I still wish I had it, at the same time, I don't miss it terribly.

This is a solid line up. Perhaps something like Medusa may be a good alternate. Looks like you got an '81 thing going.

Cant go wrong with classic Stern either. Although there are some Stern classics that are asking similar (or more) $$ like Fathom so the same question may come to mind.

Frontier is on the average to boring side for me, it's just another "light spinner, shoot the spinner, shoot the inline drops" Bally game of which there are a million. I never really get the cult around it when there's so many other Bally games just like it that have better art and themes.

If you are going for a game with that "wow" factor - which it looks like you are into with your collection - Frontier isn't going to provide that, while Fathom certainly will. There's a reason people pay the big money for Fathom.

If you are looking cheaper how about Skateball? That's a really fun game to play, super cool art, and different than the usual Bally fare (I mean kind of. Four flippers!). It's got a nice fast layout that was stolen from Flash with some magic added.

Another option would be Stern's Ali or Stars, both great games to play with a cool factor to them.

I own Paragon and Centaur and let my Fathom go a couple years ago. Beautiful game, but for me the gameplay got old. Was also a bitch of a game to dial in. Mine was a restoration which probably made it harder to dial-in, but the inline drops up top were always tough to hit. The star rollovers were a tad wonky because the heavy clear coat used by CPR made them rub and therefore were little speed bumps.

For me Paragon is a classic.

I think the appeal of Frontier to some folks is that its not a very common title. It's another George Christian design that is very similar to other Ballys of that pre '81 era like Levi mentioned.

In my opinion, his best game came out in '81: Eight Ball Deluxe.

But... If you do like those late 70s GC/Bally layouts, I recommend Future Spa. Its a widebody loaded with good features: 6 upper lanes (with a skill shot), 2 spinners, inline drops, horseshoe shot, kickback, outlanes that force you to knudge, and a deadly pop ala Paragon on the right.

And the artwork is magnificent.

Great line up. Have you played FBII? Xenon? Stern Nine Ball is awesome but comes up rarely for sale.

Consider Stars or Paragon.
Actually you could purchase both with money to spare compared to Fathom

Going by your Pinside avatar I would say Bally Star Trek is the game you need to complete your line up.

Definitely worth it.I don’t get why some worry about value.If a game is in your area and they are hard to come by.Why waste time waiting for the right one???? If it’s in the ballpark value wise.I always just get it.These machines hold their value extremely well regardless the titles.Fathom is a good one.

We had Fathom in our lineup at the co-op. It was fun and interesting, but it wasn't a game I was going out of my way to play. Most others weren't either. They would be intrigued because of it's rarity and cost and what-not, but games like EBD and HG got far more love than Fathom did.

To each their own, though. If you like the game, get it. If not, find whatever else. I bought a 1k game and I find myself playing and loving it more than my 9k game. The cost should say otherwise, right? Oh well!

It's a fucking chunk of cash, and it's a lot of unevenly balanced spinner points, that's sort of it's drawback.

It's 'better' than Embryon, Centaur, Galaxy & F2K for me...and add Seawitch* on there.

Add another "boy I wish Beatles was a normal release remake."

Wrong thread, but since this thread has a bunch of SS Bally enthusiasts in it...

Is it possible to upgrade the flippers on all these old Ballys? I have a whole row of them, and I love them, but all the flippers are so mushy. Supposedly changing the linkages was supposed to help, but I swapped them out and the flippers don't feel any different. I actually think my Paragon feels better than all the others. Are the flippers in that game supposed to be different and can they be ported to all the '81 Ballys? I'm just looking for a way to make the Bally flippers feel snappy.

To answer the thread, I think Fathom is worth it. Paragon is my fav, but Fathom is really cool and fun. Centaur may be the one I feel is overrated.
SO. MUCH. MULTIBALL.

Check vids flipper rebuild guide !

Always get rid of linear plungers, they suck ass because they weigh 2x as much as the normal ones.

I went through a similar Bally SS phase and I'd like to think I'm now over it. Fathom is incredible and worth it in my opinion. That being said the other games mentioned are great as well. Future spa is in my top 5 games I own and will never leave .

Nice lineup. If that was my lineup I would consider a Skateball or Meteor.

+1 on this whole post, and I own/have owned them all on this list.

Restored skateball and sold it a month later. Frontier and Viking if you’re looking cheaper. Fathom is amazing but it is high priced for sure.

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I was fortunate enough to buy a reasonably priced Fathom a couple years ago and restore it to my liking.

For me the appeal is as much visual as anything else. The artwork draws my eyes to this game -- even the cabinet art. This is a game I would put on display in the living room if I still had a bachelor pad. I've always liked blues and greens (especially lime green) and this game has those covered.

If I'm being honest on the gameplay it falls somewhere in the middle of good and bad for me. I love inline drops and spinners and Fathom has that covered. It has multi-ball, lively pop bumpers, and reversed inlanes/outlanes to keep things interesting. Building the bonus is a double fun challenge having two colors/goals two work with. One of the biggest negatives for me is a bit of a dead area below the right pop bumper -- I seem to send the ball there all too often.

Fathom will probably be one of the last games I sell from my collection. Not because I think it is such a great player, but because it is a good player and has an aesthetic quality to it that appeals to me. For what its worth I'd also have a restored tractor and possibly a car on display in the living room of my bachelor pad.

I'd honestly have to say the gameplay value may not be worth the high price this game holds, but having an interactive work of art (that I consider this game to be) is.

Other Classic Sterns that I play more often include Nine Ball and Cheetah. I find Paragon to be a good challenge and also like Frontier quite a bit but that has a lot to do with the crickets.

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I’d recommend:

Nine Ball
Stars
Meteor
Paragon
Skateball
Viking
Xenon

VIking is another one of those shoot up the middle for the hole all the time games like Mata Hari.

If you like Mata Hari, you'll like it. If Mata Hari bores you, you probably won't.

Let’s get this straight Fathom is an incredible game, however, bang for buck there are better choices. Stars, Nine Ball, Harlem Globetrotters, Paragon all better bang for buck choices. If money is no object Fathom all day for me.

Viking rocks. Mine is never leaving.

Have you played Barracora? If you like drop targets, check it out.

Agreed, Fathom is a great flip-control machine, with those incredibly fun long shots up the left side to drop the top in-lines, the right in-lines, great extra ball feature, fantastic flip entrances, and the ultra cool dual bonuses, huge DT bank, man I can't see why you wouldn't want that in your line-up. Not only that, the sounds are nice and the artwork is arguably one of the best that Bally has ever produced from that period. I have one in the restoration queue following a customer's Quick Draw restoration.

Fathom is a very good game. The rules are fantastic.
Evel Knievel
Frontier’
Harlem Globetrotters
Voltan

Quicksilver
Star Gazer

Skip Viking, it's a bore. Skateball is as well.

Fathom is one of the better of the old Bally's. Frontier and Centaur are great too. None of them are like the best classic sterns in terms of gameplay, but they have their appeal.

I think when it comes to questions like yours, rcbrown, the answers are usually fun and interesting to read. This is no exception. Count me amongst those who rarely tire of these aesthetic debates on Pinside.

Full disclosure – I just turned 54 last week. So, the games you are asking about are games that have extraordinarily strong pull for me. I played them on location in their day. I remember the chatter as they arrived in local arcades, pushing technology and rule sets to places they had not been yet. They still connect me with my youth. I am a sucker for them. For example…

Flight 2000 will never leave my lineup. Why? Because I was there right at the time it came out and there was SUCH A BUZZ surrounding it once it was slotted into the long side wall at Walker’s Pinball Place in Warren, Michigan. Everyone wanted to play it. It held people’s attention even in the face of the growing wave of video games that were stealing quarters away from the cult of the silver ball.

Anyway, Fathom. From my perspective, this is one of the most iconic tables in history. Art package is absolutely gorgeous and really well integrated. To this day, when I see a Fathom in the real world, it makes me smile. To me, that is EXACTLY was a table was all about in that heyday before video games took over. Cool, sexy graphics. Great sounds. Challenging gameplay. Do I understand why others say it is not worth the money usually asked for it? 100% yes, but I also understand why it will likely always hold good value. So many great little tweaks, like the inside out outlane configuration. I got into the hobby six years ago and Fathom has gone up in price by about $1,000 since then. I don’t ever see it sliding back down. It is iconic, fun and timeless. But then, I am kind of getting older and the tables of the mid 1970s to the mid 1980s will always hold that special place for me.

Love ForceFlow’s comments here:

To me this is spot on. It is all about where YOU are with regard to the balance between rule set sophistication and aesthetic quality.

Whatever you decide, good luck. I personally don't think forking over the $$$ for a Fathom would be a mistake of you have it to spend. That being said, I also understand that undercurrent about a dubious rule set and an over-inflated price. I just don't see that price changing anytime soon, unless it goes up even higher. Bravo early SS!

My people!

I've had a bunch of classic Bally and Stern games. Had Centaur for a long time, decided to sell it and keep Fathom. Fathom is the most gorgeous SS game ever. Period. Well, I had a Stargazer too. Tough call. Game play on Stargazer was kinda boring though.

Future Spa was another one I loved and just sold. Really underrated. Artwork is love it or hate it.
Quicksilver is never leaving. Killer gameplay and just weird enough art.
Embryon is never leaving. So many ways to score on that game and artwork is funky.
Paragon is probably never leaving. Just great gameplay. Every time.
Stars is great bang for the buck. Getting all the targets then playing hunt the 100K target is great fun.
Had a few Harlems and sold them because Paragon.
Viking is pimped Mata Hari with inline drops. Didn't stick with me. Cool sounds though and great theme.
Nine Ball is really cool when the ball lock works.
Loved Frontier because of the different bonuses but it didn't stick.
Seawitch was really fun but got old quickly.
Skateball is one I wish I had back. Goofy art and great bonus action.
Meteor is still fun. Going for max spinner and not hitting the last target is fun. Bonus countdown will bore you to tears though.
Eight Ball Deluxe was one I said I'd never sell but I finally got bored of it.
Big Game has great scoring rules and cool theme.
Eight Ball is fun but missing a spinner.
Flash Gordon is another one I wish I had back. Great gameplay. Bonus collect ftw!
Hotdoggin you just have to own if you've had the other Bally widebodies.
Cheetah is cool if you can find it. People want too much for it now.

It's so subjective. Some games I remember from back in the day so they're permanently imprinted on me. Some games just hook you with great gameplay. Some games are just pretty to look at. Can't keep them all. I tried.

Never liked Fathom. Overrated and underwhelming. Money aside, I’d rather own a Strikes and Spares. Not much on that game, but fun as hell, and a spectacular backglass.

Hard to find game, but it's we'll worth the money.

John

IMG_0016 (resized).JPG

I have owned a couple Fathoms over the years. It is fun to shoot and is one of the most beautiful games ever made. If money was no object I would get another. Just like many have already said in this thread there are better options for your dollar. My top SS games for value would be.

Flash Gordon
Centaur
Eight Ball Deluxe
Medusa
Skate ball

Had a frontier and loved it but it had to go before I’d let either EBD or fathom go. Now if I had to choose between one of those games idk I feel they are definitely up there as far as Bally SS games go. QS is only other game I thought that was on par with those two. A lot of other choices and bang for the buck but money aside fathom is up at the top

Awesome game, not sure I would pay $5500 for one that's not restored. My friends love to play the hell out of it more than any other in my collection.

The classic Bally’s and sterns have been a sweet spot for me for many years. I have owned/restored most of the poplular ones and have spent a great deal of time playing them.

My current Bally’s are
FG
skateball

My current classic sterns
Meteor
nineball
Stars
Seawitch

I have had centaur fathom and eight ball deluxe. Fathom is beautiful to look at and fun to play. I got to the point where I could put 5 million on it and just stopped playing it. Of these games the only one i truly miss is EBD. The rest I had my fill of.

I find I enjoy the gameplay of the classic sterns more. The best bang for the buck is Stars. That game is just pure pinball fun chasing specials. Nine ball is very good and worth its reputation. Stargazer I didn’t enjoy the gameplay as much as meteor. So I sold it because of the value and added the nine ball. I have no regrets there.

I would choose nineball stars or quick silver over a fathom any day for gameplay. If pretty is the goal then get a stargazer and a fathom and put them side by side. But I think there are better pins for the cost of fathom.

Mike

Someone told me that Fathom is the only game depicting a murder in the artwork and I cant think of another.

The mermaids ripping off the diver's mask and air while showing the bottom side of a distant boat floating at the top in the back glass is spectacular. Then that same boat with his girlfriend floating at the top of the playfield helplessly looking down into the water matches so well. And having the diver stripped of his gear and drowning in the outhole at the bottom is artwork magic. Greg Freres nailed it.

I love the sounds, enjoy the game play and would worry about never getting one back if I were to sell it.

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Really? I thought they were pulling him to safety....back to his boat.

In a collection like yours, I'd say Fathom 100% would be worth getting! To me it's got everything, art, playability, nostalgia, early speech. And I know this is subjective, but I find it to be super fun to play and I love the code/gameplay on it when it's dialed in.

I guess those that say "it got old' just played the living crap out of it.. but in a lineup of old games like you have, it just fits and you have variety so you're just playing Fathom over and over. Any game gets old when you have a small collection and have a game a long time IMO.

Sure prices are high, but have you seen the prices on JJP's and Sterns lately? Seems to fit in line with pinflation, unfortunately.

Good luck on your search!