The code is fantastic. It's some of the best code ever written for a pinball game. Who cares if the cannon inserts don't do anything? The game designer never considered VIP pass (no inserts for it) and that was implemented instead along with a ton of awesome things. The game has wizard mode, massive strategy, polish, and a ton of things to do. Lyman owns the game personally and will anyways have more to do on it and may release those enhancements in the future. In that sense, Lyman would probably say the game is never going to be complete and he always has more ideas. But I think the stern provided code time is not only done on this title, but also we don't really need more.

Software by definition is almost never complete. There are always bugfixes or improvements that can be added. I think ACDC is as complete as it needs to be and is fantastic as-is. I know people complain about the cannon inserts not doing anything but maybe that is Lyman's intention. The playfield was laid out and designed before he had a full vision of how he wanted the rules to be designed. It's quite possible that adding cannon modes would make the game worse instead of better. Who really wants modes designed around a dangerous cannon that will probably be avoided anyways? I know I wouldn't risk taking deadly cannon shots unless the risk were worth the reward. Unless they tie them in meaningfully to the Song Jackpot rules they may just seem like a tacked-on add-in. My vote is to leave the software as/is and work on updating other games that need it like TWD.

I've read so many complaints about the cannon modes, but I seriously think the game is probably better off with out them. As it is now people ignore cannon shots in favor of ball safety, so why would we want modes that force us to use that thing?

The only issue I have with the game right now is the slight imbalance with the Hells Bells strategy. Once that is tweaked I think the game could be considered complete.

I agree with this. The only other thing I would like to see is another MB that utilizes both playfields at the same time. That could be fun

The cannon is the main toy in the game. I welcome any update that increases its use, importance and fun factor. I much rather seen Stern enable the player to use the cannon more if they want to earn a higher jackpot or unlock a certain mode then not at all. Using the cannon in a cannon type mode or to collect a huge jackpot sounds far more fun then ball safety.

Code is complete. Game is great.

Strobe multiball

To me ACDC kicks ass and has become Sterns flagship game (at least in sales), and as such deserves the code to be perfect. Some will say it is perfect, I tend to disagree. I don't care for there being inserts on the playfield that are meaningless. What I mean by that is if I play the game and never look at the status if it, (the insert) than it has little or no value to the gameplay. That's the cannon inserts. Make cannon chaos a multiball, so you have something to strive far, or have one of the cannon modes to shoot the roving thunderbolt targets. Have the lower playfield achieve more than points. A series of combos, that could result in an extra ball or VIP passes or light the jukebox. These are minor of course, but are the aspects that feel somewhat thin to me.

Lyman himself told me in an email from March 2013 "I think most people are happy with the game at this point but I feel it is missing a few things" and that he plans to add more as long as its fun and balanced. He also said that there is no set schedule for future updates as he's been busy with other things at Stern for a while now.

That email reply was roughly two years ago. Hopefully with the new Spike system now complete Lyman will be able to revisit ACDC. I really appreciated him replying to my question about future code updates. He's done a great job with the code for ACDC.

Amazing game. Really is, from top to bottom. As beautiful as it is delivered, there are a lot of tasteful mods that can really kick its aesthetics into high gear.

A+

The Magnet and bell saucer are way underutilized. I would wager that most non-owners don't even realized that it has a magnet.

A roving cannon shot would be cool, though anything that increases the required use of the cannon should also come with a (at least optional) cannon ball-saver.

The other thing is song balancing. Not only de-valuing Hells Bells, but improving the risk/reward ratio to incentivize other songs and balance the risk of really risky ones line Back in Black.

Agreed.

Live tracks are not currently being used, so allow player to select either version during song selection. Probably original intent has been abandoned but at least make use of the songs.

Add meaningful goals for lower playfield, otherwise it is pointless to play. Multiball with both playfield active would be welcomed.

Add cannon modes.

Number version 2.0 and put a fork in it.

Dude, the cannon does TONS. Of the top of my head....

-Spell FIRE to light Cannon, fire at lit target to collect award (and these DO light up the Cannon inserts...no one ever said an insert has to be a mode)
-Load the Cannon to start Multiballs, fire at lit target to collect award and to start
-Load Cannon to shoot the Bell for Super Jackpots during Multiball
-For Those About To Rock IS essentially "Cannon Mode"...every ramp shot loads the cannon (and then you have to hit a different ACDC target each time)

I'm sure there are more nuanced cannon uses...but the cannon is constantly being used - to say it's "incomplete" because the cannon inserts aren't modes is BS whining.

Sure, AC/DC could use some more tweaks and that would make it even more insanely awesome....but what's there now is amazing - and there's nothing in the game that doesn't do SOMETHING, there aren't any bugs (as far as I can tell). It's polished, deep, fun and exciting!

AC/DC has great code - no doubt. But anytime there are titled, lighted inserts on the playfield that essentially do nothing does qualify as "incomplete" -> and that's no BS

One of them is in Encore at least.

The worst, most boring track that could have been used for that as well.

Speaking of the code, is it worth upgrading to 1.68? I have 1.65 and some high scores I'm quite proud of. Would like to avoid it if possible but if there are some changes that make the game better I'll make the switch. The write-up made it seem like the changes were incredibly minor.

It is not.

Whether it ever will be 'complete' is up for debate but I know for a fact it is not considered complete.

We agree.
Changed it out for the Studio version of "It's a Long Way to the Top".
My son has made it to Encore twice and just one time for me, but it sure does sound good.

We need a dozen or more threads about wether or not ACDC code is complete.

There's a big difference between ACDC "incomplete" (subjective) and the clusterfuck code issues other games have. It must be known that ACDC is not in that zone.

Hark! The all knowing has spoken!

It's a question that will be answered with a lot of different opinions, as mine was, but I'm glad to see that we have someone on this forum that has all the answers.

As long as this website stands, there will constantly be those who are not pleased enough with what they have and complain.

It's sad, really.

Hmmm....I'm not sure that this is all complaining as much as it is discussing. I do agree that some people post in more of a complaining spirit, but I feel most are engaging in open discussions about pinball, and code happens to be one of the big topics. In zero cases do we all agree unanimously on any one thing, but certainly in no way should that be construed as complaining.

Excellent attitude. I bet you're a hit at parties.

My answer has nothing to do with opinions. The programmer has explicitly stated to me he doesn't consider ACDC complete. My apologies for presenting this to counter your baseless proclamation of the game being complete, which was obviously based on something much more concrete than my evidence of the contrary.

I'll show myself out now.

Oh, well I'm sorry I didn't know you were in cahoots with Lyman. My bad, pinside.

Of course even ACDC could be improved upon, but people suggesting that the code is incomplete (which to me, suggests there needs to be more to it in order to enjoy the full game) are nuts.
I also am under the impression that maybe one day Lyman will have a little time to give it one last boost to perfection, but the Folks that use ACDC as evidence that Stern isn't completing code have probably not put much time on the game.

I'd be pretty surprised if Lyman didn't push out another software update for ACDC in the near future like he has for his previous games when he finds the time to do it. His track record speaks for itself.

I agree and I think the inserts could be put to a simpler use other than completely new modes that would make most people happy. They could be used to indicate what types of jackpots are lit which would be helpful feedback to the player. I would suggest something along these lines:

Cannon Fodder - FTATR Mode Shots, Super Mode Jackpots, Collect Bonus
Cannon Volley - Multiball Opening Jackpots, Triple MB Jackpots, Super Jackpots
Cannon Chaos - Song Jackpot

Lyman simply must bring more balance to the force to correct the Hells Bells strategy which is sweeping the nation as the only real song worth playing. If this gets corrected, Id buy this game. If not, I won't. Scoring 400 million in just 4 minutes is silly to me. I'd even settle for not allowing player to stay on the same song again at the jukebox which is just asking for trouble. Easy enough fix, no?

Those things are not related, and your conclusion is silly.

If someone says that the code is incomplete, to me that means that there's something missing.
Right now, you can enjoy ACDC (which includes the wizard mode) without ever feeling as though there needs to be more to it.

I have 4 other close pinball friends who live nearby. That's 5 ACDC owners.
Not once has anyone of us said: "Man! This game will be great WHEN... ____"

I've owned the game for over 2 years. I still can't tell you all the rules. Even if I could, you'd have to play the Hell out of it (see what I did there?) before you could come up with a strategy of your own, because there are so many options.
THAT is a complete game.

OK, I can see how this is going to go. You love your game, and I'm happy for you.
To say the game is complete, because you think it's a great game and you cannot imagine what could make it better even though that thing might exist, is a position that cannot be 'argued' against.
We'd just be disagreeing over definitions of words.

Luckily we can all go play some pinball and half a good time

You should try making some arguments as to why it's not complete. Not "I wish that...", or "It might be more fun IF...", but "It NEEDS...".
"Cannon inserts"? -agreed. But that doesn't affect the game right now is the thing.
Yes, it could be better. No argument. (Under playfield activated while upper playfield is going would be nuts for example) But if the game had 2 less inserts, I don't think there would be any reason for Pinsiders to say that the code is incomplete.

A game like StarTrek or Walking Dead is incomplete. They're not where they need to be.
ACDC doesn't "need" anything. If it did, I highly doubt it would be Sterns best selling game.
God knows it didn't sell because of the amazing artwork on the playfield.

I agree with the rest of your post.

I don't argue as to "what is needed" because I'm one of the few non-pinball designers on Pinside. I let the pros handle that. Lot's of people dream and spend a lot of time on here saying what a game needs...I just play'em