(Topic ID: 238792)

Alien Pinball - CONFIRMED!!! - Pinball Brothers Remake

By pcprogrammer

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 4,086 posts
  • 435 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 21 days ago by Roostking
  • Topic is favorited by 148 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“Will Chicago Gaming manufacture Alien pinball?”

  • Yes, I believe it will happen 133 votes
    34%
  • No way, not a chance 253 votes
    66%

(386 votes)

This poll has been closed.

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

nuke.gif
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
Leads? (resized).png
EB4A6F5C-3841-4A37-A525-5A85CD6AE6D6 (resized).jpeg
0D453659-6484-4511-A593-253625DBEA24 (resized).jpeg
F83D81CD-11E7-4602-BA75-9A6253DA488A (resized).jpeg
20210620_104344 (resized).jpg
20210620_101106 (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20210619-123810_Chrome (resized).jpg
20210619_113041 (resized).jpg
20210618_183039 (resized).jpg
20210618_171449 (resized).jpg
CDF9C8FD-E9E3-4624-8F8E-BA76DD881231.jpeg
alien pinball (resized).jpg
A9F4C5E8-5E36-44E8-8A8D-0B47B8CB785F (resized).jpeg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider flynnibus.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#116 2 years ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

Obviously I'd want a mechanically revised and refined Alien put back in the market; it would mean money for me, finally. But the confirmation point would be a deal made concerning my design rights to the game, since the work is not paid for. This has not happened.

I hope your looking for a good lawyer

#141 2 years ago
Quoted from Coz:

Gossip and rumors are what keeps pinside interesting. Could the rumors be true? Sure. Not many people know the truth and we won’t know for a while. I hope the rumors are true, I hope the guys screwed by Dutch pinball can get their pins. I hope alien is remade so more people can enjoy it.

You don't have enough hands to count how many times he said "100% confirmed" and its happening.

#195 2 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

True but it does give you a pretty general idea of how popular games are. I don't agree that MB is the best game ever or MM is second best but no denying those games are extremely popular. If given time, maybe Alien could of established itself more as a solid top 10 pin in the community. Reality is that it has not.

That's because most people haven't been able to spend any time with it. Very limited exposure at shows.. and it's not the type of game that you figure out right away because it's geometry is significantly different from the cookie cutter games.

Play the game where you can hear it, put many games on to get dialed in, and have someone to explain the bigger things going on... and you'll be hooked if you're a player.

The fact many people don't know that... really doesn't matter

Edit; yes to your point its harder to market vs a 'known hit' - and I agree that's a reason for CGC to stick to the known commodities.

#307 2 years ago
Quoted from hAbO:

Very entertaining thread to say the least
[quoted image]

That gif sums up pinside as a whole

#308 2 years ago
Quoted from chooch:

Kaneda was confident on his podcast. ICE is just betting he is correct.

FFS he bet a case of beer. Really sticking his neck out there if he is wrong.

Accuracy or real commitment isn't really on the menu for any of that list of characters. More like dodge, deflect, pivot....

1 week later
#334 2 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

to change to a Williams esq style setup so much would have to change:
1: CGC need a wide body cabinet - not hard for them considering they make cabinets
1: complete new playfield that would mount properly with the holes in the right place, and would it have the screen in the playfield?
2: CGC game platform, assume the code can be ported but can the CGC platform play lots of live action video with an overlay?
3: complete redesign of all the electronic boards, where CGC go for a large main board which would be huge for a widebody
4: backbox redesign to take computer and a large screen.
So pretty much all you would take is the play field design in what ever cad package its in and then try to overlay/import it into CGCs system adjust it so it worked with the Williams style cabinet...
or the pinball brothers supply all the parts and CGC do assembly. Feels unlikely to me.
Frankly if the pinball brothers try to do anything with the assets of heighway limited I'll personally refer them to companies house, the fraud squad and the administrator of the outstanding liabilities, lots of folks are owed money and the pinball brothers need to put those people right.
Neil.

Alien uses a sliding PF design now. Sure the mech is different, but no reason to believe it would take a 'whole new PF'
Alien code already runs on a generic PC - no need to port it. Biggest change would be if they were to re-design the I/O boards
The interface boards could be reworked - but that's a choice. You can buy them directly from China right now if you needed to... Most would say they should fix some of the shortcomings of the electrical design of them.. but that's a revision, not a whole new design

Other topics could be more impactful like... do you continue to use the inductive switches? Because if you didn't, that would be very disruptive to the playfield and require a lot of changes.

#357 2 years ago
Quoted from wesman:

Does anyone know of a good gameplay video? I watched the SDTM assisted unboxing finally the other night, and gameplay there felt a bit clunky.
Also, are the assets used as/even more trimmed than POTC? I'd read Sigourney was a no go, but I didn't see much else, heard some familiar voices though....

The game is full of video from both movies. It just doesn't use sigourney.

Game play will look clunky from people who are new to the game because of the non-traditional geometry.

#378 2 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Are you a debtor? If not I don't know how you would know that. The pinball brothers company probably has no liability, but the individual directors for sure have, and their actions in transferring the assets will be critical.
Regards,
Neil.

It’s been nearly a year... and no one has gone after them or challenged the liquidation even tho clearly they have assets and revenues. It sure looks like it’s in the rear view mirror to me....

#487 2 years ago
Quoted from Oneangrymo:

I just don't understand why come back to Alien? There are so many other great things that could be made, why waste resources.

all projects (even old ones) would take significant efforts to get them to production. Old or missing drawings, tooling, NLA components, modern requirements, etc. Its not like they can just pick a WPC title and say "ok, we are ready to order parts and build it!"

Alien on the other hand is a recent build with (presumably) all the materials known and accounted for. You only have to rework what you want to change.. instead of from old stuff you can't even use anymore.

2 weeks later
#590 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Even assuming it worked that way I can tell you right now the lawyer would cost more than what they never paid me in royalties the first time around.

and the question of if you retained ownership/rights to the work and licensed it.. vs simply doing contract work and accepting deferred compensation in the form of royalties for your compensation (in which.. the work would have been the property of HWP and thus able to be transferred to others).

2 months later
#702 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Weren’t / aren’t alien specific parts showing up on Pinball Life? I think I remember reading that somewhere.
If so, would make sense.

Terry noted they were from pinball brothers and his supply was spotty with no garunteed future. They were probably just liquidating parts at that point.

I can't help but think the new 'interest' here is simply because Kaneda replayed his old podcast.. and people think it's new again?

#705 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Did he update his listeners on the ass-tattoo pledge?

You missed his break through announcement...

Broken Clocks are correct twice a day, so he's claiming he's right and doesn't need a tatoo now.

(ignoring the fact his claim TBL was going into production... which it isn't yet). But hey, 'he was right!!' lolz

1 year later
#885 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Agreed..must remember it was Heighway, not PB that attempted to get Alien out in production form (PB was only part of the puzzle).
CGC (per Lloyd) directly stated they had no interest in remaking.
The "new proto" has been circulating for around 2 years - W/B wide body, side art, no center screen, etc....probably just gauging interest, but need a legit manufacturer w deep pockets to make it happen.
JJP almost tanked, then an investment group apparently jumped in.
Heighway was not that fortunate. I look at my original invoice on my LE from Heighway....they would still be selling them if he could have got it across the line.
The problems w early Aliens is they were built from crap to try and fill an empty $$$ tank
The final run was relatively trouble free, and bugs would have been long worked out if he could have kept the company afloat. Didn't happen...is what it is
Looks like an effort to gauge interest. That's about it.

JJP burned too much and couldn't afford to run things at the levels needed to get to the black. The money was the bridge to span them until they had the titles and volumes. They made mistakes, but for the most part were running as a business you'd expect.

HWP was cheating everyone trying to bubblegum his way to a final release. It was a house of cards. HWP was closer to a JPOP then anything like a JJP. HWP tried to rob peter to pay paul, etc.

One company would have failed due to lack of success... the other failed due to bad leadership.

#895 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Nah, they both fail in similiar fashion, imho. People were circling JJP's building back in the day w the "WTF" and people were in deep. The game came out virtually unplayable, w monsterous problems. They were chewing their share of bubble gum as well. Had to lose crazy $$$ getting the game right. They were fortunate, staying the course.

Not my recollection. Besides the lighting board revisions (try, try, try again..) and the limited Mirco playfield issues it wasn't a basketcase at all. 'unplayable'?? Never. Lighting boards being out.. yes.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Heighway was circled, but mostly dark stateside. Hell, the US team (one of the best assembled) didn't even know what was going on. A much, much different audience, however. No one knew what was really happening. When they ran out of money, no where near the avenues of relief. No bridge for them, so the scramble turned into deception and desperation. Truth is - how many pinball machines are actually made overseas as opposed to the US?

The problems had little to do with being in the UK - and everything to do with bad leadership choices. From bad choices to try to do stuff in house that didn't need to be, to the scamming of his employees, to the labor law issues, to the unqualified engineers, to the mishandling of relationships, to the deception, the lies, etc etc etc. The US team were compartmentalized and weren't 'feet on the street' to see what was happening behind what they were told. So they were held at arms length and weren't able to end-around what Andrew was doing. Alien is an example of bad engineering combined with horrible leadership at both the project and corporate level, lies, and consequences of things running the ship into the rocks. The bank account didn't sink Alien - Andrew and the sum of their output did. The game woefully needs an overhaul.. and hopefully this new release will go in and fix those things.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

This is a story of $$$, or lack thereof, pure and simple.

No way - listen to the insiders. From his manipulation to try force people to work for free, from his decisions to build a factory first, from his decisions to bring stuff inhouse that they really couldn't do anyways, from the decisions to not properly staff to QA and hire the right engineers, to the mishandling of the licensing, to the lying to is employees, to the lying to the customers, to the fraud to try to sell games to get cash now... These were all things Andrew poisoned the company with.

There is a reason the money folks intervened and basically took the assets away from HWP - instead of just putting more money in and letting it ride.

#896 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

So is that the actual playfield schematic? Are they really removing the playfield screen? That seems dumb

There's still a big rectangle there for the screen... but maybe its no longer a big housing?

That looks like the APC targets on the (reversed) left side and the flipper near the saucer on the lower third of that diagram

#898 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Your recollection fails you. Playfields were actually fine back then (hmm), but there were many issues beyond the lightboards....this is not a JJP bash post, I love the company, especially after they got staffed proper. But acting like they didn't have near death blows getting things going is just silly.

They had playfield issues... the notorious delamination in the pops area. But it was a short lived problem. What other things are you trying to point to?

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Heighway's failure had everything to do with naive leadership and poor choices. Nothing $$$ couldn't have fixed

Money doesn't change leadership - that's why the problems are ultimately rooted and unsolvable until Andrew was not part of the picture. 'Nothing $$$ couldn't have fixed'? Sounds like the deeproot strategy with jpop

Quoted from MK6PIN:

The final build of Alien is not "woefully in need of an overhaul". Far from it, and plays as reliably as any of my other games. Facinating shot geometry, and an A/V package that hasn't been approached by any other pin I've seen. You cannot be in tune to the game with that statement.

I was right here when our friends did much of the work documenting and sourcing parts. I've had my hands inside 7 different alien games... including 2 that were the 'late builds'. There are still 2 of those in our close circle. I've been close associates with the lead programmer for 25 years. I think I'm qualified to make my statement.

From the plastics, to the xeno, to the IO boards, to the lights, to the cardboard cabinet... the game needed an overhaul before anyone should have attempted to build it again.

#1014 1 year ago
Quoted from dung:

The bar for rampart speculation is so low. After 2 years you see jack all and salivate. No whitewoods. No information on how they plan to fund this. Just a couple hours work at most. Jpop put more work in.

Yes, but one has to consider... why?

These guys aren't doing this themselves... they are enlisting others. Why?
Why bother drumming up interest in a project you aren't trying to do?

The bigger question is always 'how' and the feasibility of their plan - not the money.

There is no payoff in getting a few facebook likes. So one has to root out their motivation and explain it.

You think they are just trolling because they are bored?

#1020 1 year ago
Quoted from dung:

Why? Because they want an angel investor. They don't have the funds to relaunch the company. They don't even have the funds to redesign the game. If they were serious they would at least have built a prototype and be showing it off

I think you're wrong there. I believe they have been shopping for a partner/buyer... not an investor. Which is why they were dealing with CGC, etc.

#1053 1 year ago
Quoted from mbeardsley:

Yes, but most places have rules against "company stacking".
For example, Fred starts "Company One" and goes into business building up both assets and liabilities. Then after a year, he sells the assets to "Company Two" (also owned by Fred) for 1 dollar. He then declares "Company One" bankrupt (after all, it now has a bunch of liabilities and no remaining assets).
Company Two now has ownership of a bunch of assets and does not owe anybody anything.
Depending upon how (and where) this is handled, it can be legal or illegal.

In a very general fashion... that's what happened here. When HWP was struggling, directors raided HWP for the goods, restructured, then turn around and treated the resulting HWP as a child entity with a finite amount of resources to deliver salvage the business and deliver to customers. When the HWP resources ran out... they wrapped up the child entity, wrote their losses off.. and kept the assets to try again later.

It was a inside job to restructure HWP to protect what they wanted, minimize their future outlay, and have their cake and eat it too. They let what was left of HWP try to make a final run at making it work... saving face... while not having to watch it all goto liquidation when it inevitably failed.

#1069 1 year ago

here's the catch... it's a virtual pinball release

#1129 1 year ago
Quoted from PinBalt:

The answer to this forum appears to be Yes...
[quoted image]

giphy (3).gif

Good to see them acknowledge it.. but now let's hear their actual plan...

#1153 1 year ago
Quoted from scruffypinball:

however pinball people clearly don’t give a rats ass as long as the game gets made and they can get it.

This is pretty much the same across all history in the hobby. "Rip off another product? - No problem..." "Unlicensed repos? - No problem...". People just want their stuff.

#1156 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Stern 1977. No one gets bent out of shape they bootlegged bally. Then they did it again in the 80s as data east. Rampant in the vid industry too.

Well... WMS did get bent out of shape ... but yes, customers today don't care

Everyone talks a big talk... but then will chase the cheapest product that does what they want at the end of the day.

#1198 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Yes old vs new. That is an OG Heighway playfield. New is pictured in the quote.
Point is I'm looking at beneath the apron area. We know the screen is gone already as pictured up the page a bit.

Yeah but look at the coindoor and trough area too... this looks alot more like traditional cutouts for wms style coindoors and bill validators.

#1226 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

I kinda wondered why it was that Back Alley Creations would come out with a variant of the pop bumper egg which is open, but matches the standard all closed egg tops. A new mold, to sell 50-100?. Well after the bust. The original eggs are from the same maker afaik, both available. I'd say we will see pop bumpers with a mix of closed and open pop bumper eggs.

I believe both egg styles were done for tge original project. Memory is foggy on this one...

-4
#1313 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

When people can come to grips w the fact that Alien's problem wasn't the machine itself, but rather the company (or lack thereof) stepping up and supporting it, working out the kinks, etc. then clarity is achieved here.

Nah, the product (and not just the shell of a company behind it) was still a problem. 'working out the kinks' as you put it is the elephant in the room. Choices made, platform designs, and others needed to be thrown out and redone. These were largely mechanical, electrical, and management choices that were all made in the UK and the US team had no control over. They had to work with what they had.

That's why I'm still hopeful they have purged their demons - because failing to do so won't let the title flourish as it should be able to.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Maybe I'm missing something, but would rather see posts/ pics of a factory for assembly, support structure (name dropping), etc. than what is being shown now.

Well that's why they are teases... When they launch the product hopefully they acknowledge more of that.

#1319 1 year ago
Quoted from dts:

My LE #001 had the following issue: plug in a usb cable to a connector. Way more problems with two JJPOTCs, IMDN, BM66, etc etc.

I'm happy that the game you just got two months ago has been great for you... but you're one of the luckiest if you've not dealt with

You never had disco lights
You never had 48v shutdowns leading to intermittent flipper stops
You never had cracked plastics
You never had any xeno jaw issues
You never had any xeno tongue issues
You never had any display connector issues
You never had ball launch issues

There are many issues with the mechanical and electrical design of the HWP product that many faithful just dismiss as either solved after the fact or just live with... like disco lights, xeno reliability, etc.

#1325 1 year ago
Quoted from dts:

Guess I'm lucky, I don't even know what you mean by disco lights. I did replace the DVI cable to the playfield screen. The early run games you worked on had a lot of problems, the later ones not as much. I hope Pinball Brothers has more consistency.

The early run games had more mashup of parts and assembly issues... but really are essentially the same as the late builds with a few changes like the scoop insert. In my circle of friends there was everything from the show prototypes, to returns, to late buys from PBs. The efforts to get those games up to snuff have been documented plenty in other threads here.

Disco lights refers to the unintentional flickering of the game inserts due to EMI and vibration. It was attempted to be minimized in software, and there are tricks like trying to position the LED wiring in certain ways to minimize it further. Ultimately it's a hardware design issue with the controlled light driver system.

The game has a lot of weaknesses in its engineering that people would want to revamp if they were to repeat.

#1446 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Common code or not will be the clincher. Either two different code builds for each version, or the same code build for both with option settings to suit which physical game version it is applied to. The later would seem to be the most sensible and cost effective, keeping one lot of code updated rather than two lots. Alot hinges on whether the code is shared between versions or not.

Packaging is the least of their software worries for what you are talking about.. the code can easily branch internally or be built separately. That's just grunt work. The real extra work is in living with the extra validation and troubleshooting of everything being done in two different environments with different constraints. It's that ongoing overhead that drives the software cost up over time. As your common game code advances, you still have to validate all work on both environments. That's the kind of stuff developers hate.

There is no money in PBros investing in supporting the old game's code... especially if they've redone the hardware. But it would be interesting if they sold new code for the old games.. that could maybe make it worthwhile.. but you still have that dog of old hardware. Maybe they built with upgrades in mind... to make in place hardware swaps possible.. or maybe they just focus on selling new games. Really depends on how much they committed to that concept early on...

The problem with all of these concepts is the market is finite and limited. Can you charge enough to make it worth it? Is the goodwill worth the opportunity cost and expense? Those are business decisions they would have to make and live with. It's a hard sell to say "make 200 games work...and it will only ever be 200 games..' vs investing in something you hope will sell 500+ games and have much more upside.

#1448 1 year ago

I'll enter the office pool with a bet at 8500k base model... trimmed upwards of 10k.

Second guess is 7800 base model.

#1721 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I'll enter the office pool with a bet at 8500k base model... trimmed upwards of 10k.
Second guess is 7800 base model.

Nailed it...

#1810 1 year ago
Quoted from stevenb28:

I want to see what the LE has before I get one.

Crazy talk!

10
#1833 1 year ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Why?
Taking the theme out of it, does it shoot well? What’s the code like?

Unique geometry... very good rules for both fun and strategy choices. Best in class media and sound.

It takes a number of games to find the shots but is addictive and once you get a game going strong you want more and more

-2
#1863 1 year ago
Quoted from Yipykya:

Wait what? Are there sirens or speakers contained inside the beacons? Or do you mean it's noisy via the code when the beacons are active?

Cheap sloppy plastic gear noise. They sound like a grinding mixer

#1988 1 year ago
Quoted from Lethal_Inc:

Are there any electronics in the head to access other than the lighting for the art and display?

The original has all the electronics in the lower cabinet. The head was more for form factor... It only had the display and speakers and strip LED lights.

#1999 1 year ago
Quoted from rai:

IIRC GGC sold a crap ton of MM remake sold a thousand LE on first day not sure if they had flippable pins at announcement.

They had a flyer

#2008 1 year ago

Pre-ship - all hype... everyone can't find their wallet quick enough
Post-ship - people talk about their hands on experience

Maximizing the hype period is natural and desirable for the company. Hype is cheaper than actual marketing.

#2047 1 year ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Does anyone know what the new Aliens platform will be running on?
PC?
PRoc?
OS?
Also what did original game run on?

for the original game, lots of content out there for those that look

Original game included a standard small form factor PC and drove custom I/O boards that connected to larger interface boards that then connected to lights, switchs, etc. Game runs linux for an OS

I don't think they talked about the new platform in detail yet. Because of that I'd speculate it is similar to the old design but with the boards themselves being redone to get rid of the b0rked I/O boards that were full of conflicting design issues. Maybe new I/O boards with the interface boards simply being broken up into smaller boards to make them cheaper.

#2050 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

I wonder if the reliability issue of OG Alien is overblown? I mean there’s quite a few B/W and Stern parts that are to all intents and purposes unobtainium now, what would an owner do if one of those gave up the ghost? What about the aforementioned node boards - are they all still available to buy in the event of a failure?

You are mixing things up a bit. The reliability comments are not about parts availability- but the actual reliable operation of the game and components performing as intended. Design flaws — not so much dying parts. Some parts were unreliable because they were crap quality or how they used... but those were more off the shelf things that you can replace. Servos, display cables, etc.

Parts were available because people literally just went to the china suppliers that heighway used and bought the same parts... including the heighway PCB boards, pcs, etc

#2054 1 year ago
Quoted from ORF:

Something IS going on conserning "old" HP pinballs and parts availability:
https://www.gameroom.no/2020/12/need-parts-we-got-it/
IO Board 1.4C sounds good to me as a OG Alien owner...

That is great news... even if it just confirms ambitions. Someone going in and correcting the issues (like the over voltage circuit) on the i/o boards for old games would be a huge help. If people could retrofit some upgrades on old aliens that could be best of both worlds (even if its at a cost). The i/o board cost wasn’t insignificant at low volumes.

#2063 1 year ago
Quoted from razorsedge:

Is there debug or log info produced by the code, that can be accessed or downloaded from the game? ... or will this only happen by running in some sort of "debug mode"?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-official-game-thread/page/359#post-4041771

#2105 1 year ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

I really doubt the two codes are interchangeable especially since PB claimed that they reworked the machine from the ground up. You can't use a stern pro code on a stern premium machine despite being 95% similar.

That is simply a choice by stern - not really a technical constraint.

Alien game code is designed to be abstracted from the hardware. One thing HWP did do right was develop their simulator tooling so that devs could work independently of having a physical game. Alien was developed in large part WITHOUT the actual hardware but running on a simulator. Think VirtualPinball.. where you have game code running and a separate hardware emulator below it.

In the simulator you substitute an emulator for the hardware but run the real game code. In the real game, you have a platform layer that facilitates all the code that actually drives the hardware components and provides a a service layer or set of APIs to the game code. So the game code simply say "turn solenoid A1 on" to the hardware/platform layer... and that layer says "oh that means send 0x1110 to address ABC" or whatever. The point is the hardware/platform layer is the one that bears the brunt of changes to the new game. You can change hardware with very minimal changes to the game/app code.

This is how they can rewrite the platform drivers without having to rewrite the game code. And the platform was mostly done by Brian.. who is also working with PinBros Any tweaks that are needed to the game code can also be done without really starting over.

Then it only becomes a question of if you want to support both hardware configurations going forward... The game code could simply operate with flags that steer its behavior "if rev1, do X, else do Y"... or you can compile builds to target one config or the other... or you can maintain separate branches all together and only the new one contains code for the new platform, etc. This is all choices in how they want to develop their software and you make those choices based on your requirements, constraints, and how you prefer to manage your work. This is all very basic software design constructs. Brian is a stud, I doubt any of this is worrying him at night They already demonstrated they built Alien this way originally. There shouldn't be any reason they can support both - it's simply a question of if you invest to support both targets... and force yourself to maintain at least some of the old one.. or simply focus only on your new one.

TLDR - Hardware is abstracted away from game code. They can pick if they want to maintain code for both hardware platforms or not - it's just a question of do they want to invest to do so.

#2109 1 year ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

I assume the computer will change too?
Assuming the original is no longer made. I am sure OS changes, drivers, compiling code on new computer all has impacts to some level.

This is where a 'closed system' is to your advantage. Unlike a desktop/laptop... the system doesn't run anything you don't put into it. The system doesn't do anything other than you ask of it. Thus, as long as the requirements don't change, the system can keep doing what it does without having to change anything.

What the vendors have to consider is
1 - availability of the parts to keep building the product as long as they want
2 - availability of the parts to provide spares/service
3 - software support for any future needs or defect fixes
4 - headroom for future needs

#3 is less of an issue the more mature something is as change is less frequent and you hope it's polished by then. You also consider if its things you can 'fix yourself' or if you rely on others. Same with #4 - if your product is mature and understood, your requirements are less likely to change

For isolated embedded systems... change is low probability. Mainly what they want to avoid is getting stuck where they can't get new parts to keep the assembly line running and the availability of replacements (so again, you avoid being forced to swap before you want to)

The motherboard alien uses is quite old by computer standards (almost 8 years?) but is still available to order from the china vendor. I wouldn't be suprised if they simply push PC updates down the road as a future refresh as long as the vendor could give them a reasonable End of Sale forecast. Since it's a closed platform, and they have all the existing binaries... they can keep using old stuff.

If they didn't get reasonable pricing or availability forecast.. they'd change and be forced to face more extensive regression testing to ensure the new hardware didn't have any unexpected differences in behavior.

It's more of question of supply chain management and then being forced to face software work just to maintain compatibility. There are a lot of reasons to 'not rock the boat' if they don't have to...

1 month later
#2405 12 months ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Playing Devils Advocate - if you look at the OG Alien thread you can find people posting misgivings who got downvoted on principal by “true believers” in the early days of that too, because they didn’t want to entertain any other reality than the one they’d accepted, and we know how that ended up.

It’s the same in everyone of these “futures” threads. The people who have thrown their support and money at something don’t want to hear anyone questioning or doubting. It’s why they even have “club” threads for pre orders... trying to insulate themselves from reality that doesn’t suit them. Objectively is not embraced

3 weeks later
#2657 11 months ago
1 week later
#2734 10 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

Yep - all speculation. No inside information. Time to get the snow out of your ears.

So the Tucker Carlson defense?

#2833 10 months ago
Quoted from earetz:

Mechanically complete, but software could be the the challenge. My hopes where that they where still producing physical pins whilst working on software issues before shipping. Porting from the original game to their new hardware platform would probably a bit if a hurdle, and more so if if the programmer hasnt done a pin before.

The game is being done by the same guy who built the original platform software... and has done multiple games. They are changing small amounts... this isn’t really a big concern.

Their biggest challenges are the opposite... getting things built with parts... not concerns about software

1 week later
#2922 10 months ago
Quoted from delt31:

Video itself was terrible. No video of the alien eating the ball? The alien mouth was open as well yet they show alien MB ambush which happens after it eats the ball. I love the “professionals” take on this first look. Cointaker deserves better. Btw - of course CT delivered, as expected. Don’t doubt them people.

Podcaster celebrities not knowing the subject matter... call me shocked

#2934 10 months ago
Quoted from Coz:

I recently chatted with Joe Schober (original programmer) and he was not involved in adding additional code for the remake with Pinball Brothers.

Correct - but the other half of the programming team, Brian, has been Considering they were changing the platform, and not the game rules, modes, etc.. it's the exact fit one would expect.

#2970 10 months ago

Gotta say - the cabinet does feel pretty amauterish in this form. Lots of visual 'holes'

#2987 10 months ago
Quoted from dts:

The original takes a lot of heat for the cabinet, but it is a thing of beauty in my small collection

I never had a beef with the looks of the old cabinet... just the build of it. The fragile material, the floppy sides, the redonkulous key setup, etc. The lit sides were nice, but not a 'must have'. It was 'innovation' but not better.. but it looked good. The new cabinet looks like it takes the necessary 'just make it functional' choices.. but the art really should have been reworked to better fill in the available space. And the BG really is a step back IMO.. maybe the speaker/lighting differences will make up for it.. but give me the bigger screen.

#2990 10 months ago
Quoted from dts:

That's strange, because one of the things I love about the original cabinet is the build quality. If anything, it makes other cabinets look fragile.

I wouldn't confuse boxy with sturdy. It was made of pressboard/MDF. The shoulder of the lower cabinet is routed so thin for the side panels it can be broken with your hand. I've personally dealt with two smashed heads. The lighting is literally ebay level strip LEDs stuffed into corners.

The heighway concepts for the modules look sturdy vs just wood cutouts in other cabinets... but the cabinet itself is a bit of a diva.

1 month later
#3398 9 months ago

The wiring of the pf screen was a high failure point too

#3401 9 months ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Nope....connectivity issues=100% fail point and agreed. Issue was brought up....again, easy fix. Mini ribbon cable.

Which is a fail point. It wasn’t just falling out but the cable was fragile, the casing/mounts did not support it and the junctions well... and many people had to replace their screens in part due to it.

High failure item due to how it was integrated.

#3420 9 months ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Integration is my job as you're aware, as I'm aware of yours to degree...the thin lacquered ribbon is commonplace ( JJPPOTC apron, etc.) not just to pinball.

I'm not saying it can't be done - I'm addressing the people doubting the failures the PF screen had in the prior build. They were real.

The mount and cable integration done here was a high failure point. Could it be done differently? Of course. But those that continue to doubt screen failures are just whitewashing history.

-1
#3425 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

That is a symptom of tight sandals!

Seems like a lot of us have zero problems with this one. I replaced the DVI cable for minor glitches, made sure the plastic window was level, like on Congo/Lebowski/Creature, and put some mylar over the edge. No problems at all.

Congrats - you win the phrase of the day - 'anecdotal evidence'

Your experience does not define everyones.

#3435 9 months ago
Quoted from dts:

Likewise, your experience does not represent us all. My one experience is good, as are many others. Perhaps this is an early build versus late build issue, not sure.

Dude the threads are there if you looked or were here for it all.

#3442 9 months ago
Quoted from Dee-Bow:

which owners' are you referring to? I notice you don't and never have owned an OG

Just because its not in my collection?

Don’t assume.... some of the biggest save alien efforts were within my immediate circle. How many aliens have you had your hands in or setup? I can count at least 7

#3447 9 months ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Was there for all of it. Screen failures were minimal and easy fix. Why you insist on bashing the game is beyond me.

da faq are you on about? I'm not bashing anything - just correcting the falsehood that the screens were never a problem. Yes they were and yes it was an easy fix in the field because the parts were easily sourced - never said otherwise. Yet some people insist on saying they were never a problem item to start with - that's what instigated the reply.

Some people just insist on acting like nothing was ever wrong with the game - even after they spent countless hours fixing them or stocking up on alternate or spare parts, etc.. and then act like none of it happened. That's bullshit... and so when same people keep doubting the reasons for change it's comical.

I look forward to seeing the guts of the new alien and how they hold up. It's such an amazing game that has been held back by its past engineering. I want to see Alien that we can play without worrying about it all the time and even put on location. I want my friend to get the recognition for the amazing title he created. But I'm not going to whitewash history to make that happen.

#3452 9 months ago
Quoted from RETROCENGO:

Hi guys, i hope its okey, that i share my youtube video here, unboxing and a quick review:

Awesome - great video! best view of the guts so far!!

#3457 9 months ago

So...

Ramps look super polished...
The new light channel guides in many places to boost lighting. But interestingly they also seem to be in direct contact with the ball in some places. That's a new concept to see how it plays out. plus the target bodies.. clearly they really put lighting near the top of the list to tweak and invest in.
The board redesign.. looks like we have a chained data bus with rj45 (but some strain relief now) with separate molex power to the boards like before. But of course the interface boards are completely redone.
Interesting to see that, what looks like some sort of power distribution box attached to the bottom of the PF.
CPU is behind the monitor now
the lack of a lockdown reciever is an interesting choice... just small tabs where the lockdown bar slides through and double as the PF mounts.

No EOS on the flippers at all? Guess all software controlled... we've seen others continue to struggle with that idea.

I know the poster was disappointed with the Audio, but I think the HWP was a bit of an extreme with audio itself. Good news is audio is alot easier to fix than things like I/O boards! Hopefully running the audio to your own amp + speakers gets it back to where some want it.

I wonder where all the driver board stuff is... in the box on the PF or the box in the lower cab? Seems like the box hanging on the PF

#3463 9 months ago
Quoted from ezeltmann:

Thanks for the video!
Can anyone make an educated guess as to why the sound seems so bad?
I know it's probably easy to fix , but is it speakers or something that cannot be upgraded ; like they reduced the quality somewhere .
Everything else seems pretty good , but sound is very important to me as well.

well alien used a full dedicated amp.. and different speakers. We don't know what they are driving these speakers with yet.

I think it's the least of concerns - except for the continued speaker placement behind the plexi. The rest is easily improved upon as long as there is a line level somewhere.

#3476 9 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I like the minor artistic changes they made to the front.
I find it interesting he keeps bringing up the lock down bar locks. Is anyone even using the old style williams locks? I haven't seen one in years.

Look at it though - it's not just the locking reciever vs clips... there is no reciever at all!

So no adjustments for the lockbar, no steel bar supporting front of cabinet face, lesser brackets supporting the playfield itself.

What I thought was interesting as well was it looked like the right clip didn't have clearance to flip up when the PF was down.. looks like it may have to be fiddled with to get in the lock position.

#3478 9 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

They seem to be exactly the same as R&M.

Unfortunately - not the greatest standard to be chasing...

#3482 9 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Its different, no big whoop. IF we have to lift the playfield every day then Maybe a concern otherwise a non concern. Way better to me then the original design lifting that 50 pound glass rail assembly off. That design I did not care for personally.

Concur - the glass cartridge model is a neat idea - just horrible in most practical senses.

#3498 9 months ago
Quoted from HeadNZ:

What is ‘XV’ version? Look on box.
[quoted image]

Boxes printed before they settled on what kind of models they were going to make

#3505 9 months ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Chrome ramps is an interesting choice. I feel like it’s something that has probably been considered before by other manufacturers but dismissed for whatever reason?
Given it’s a contact surface I wonder how it’ll hold up to scratched balls etc. Ball trails are a problem on worn plastic ramps, on chrome I have to assume that effect will be magnified?

Could just be polished vs chrome. SS era had plenty of plated stuff.

#3508 9 months ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Fair enough, thanks. I have next to no knowledge of pins from that era. Does it hold up ok?

It gets dulling tracks - like all metal. But they weren't particularly a weak point. The advantage of the stainless stuff that is popular now is it's super easy to refinish stuff and get back to a factory finish.

#3515 9 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Yes plastic has never worked before. Except, you know, ramps. And bash toys, entire and partial playfields, drop targets, stand ups, my cheaper pair of flip flops...

And how often do you deal with broken metal ball guides vs us replacing ramps, bash toys, drop targets etc?

#3517 9 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Both the wire ball guides on the Flash Gordon I'm restoring are busted off, more common than you would think.
Not a deal breaker either way, its pinball and stuff will inevitably get broken despite your best efforts!

Those wires fatigue after many decades and like to snap above the bur. I think we can all agree after nearly 40 years we can say they served their full tour

#3551 9 months ago
Quoted from digitaldocc:

On a side note can you show the purpose of the sentry guns and how the player can interact with that feature. There has got to be a reason why it's there instead of the playfield screen. Besides the obvious reason.

Sentry gun multiball qualify status. Switch hits (?) work towards qualifying the multiball... the light bars should track that progress

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider flynnibus.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside