Let's actually look at your scenario from a different manufacturer.

Gottlieb...Company is long gone, yet we the enthusiasts are adapting and making the parts we need for our machines.
Power supply, mpu and driver boards have all been reproduced.

Your concerns should only be what is the best price I can purchase Hot Wheels at and how much fun can I have before I rotate it out of the lineup.

-Mike

Many of the common wear parts are made to W/B standards. Common parts will be available.

Nah.

Even highway game owners haven't been completely left in the lurch. There's a small dedicated group of folks supporting those games, despite the collapse of that company.

My theory is it’s always best to buy “low”. AP pins are underrated. They are also getting better with each release, but the spread on the quality with each release isn’t as great as say Spooky. In other words, Houdini is an excellent pin whereas AMH was clearly a good first pin. Tight shots with Houdini but that’s a matter of preference and for $5000 you get a ton of pin. At the end of the day, don’t overthink it and just get what you want.

PS: We are both in Minneapolis and should connect sometime.

I agree. It won't be your last anyway

Gottlieb is a poor comparison. Alvin g is a better one. Gottlieb was around for decades and made hubdreds of thousands of games. Alvin g made it a similar amount of time to ap and made a couole thousand games.

Even then can still maintain an alvin g, but restoring one is near inpossible due to lack of game specific parts.

will the upcoming aimtron announcement be that they are shuttering their pinball division?

I deliberated for a long time on a HUO pristine Houdini here for months. Worried it might have issues that some have had. Josh was a great support and offered very helpful advice and I’m a second hand buyer. That says a lot. Also that they are still investing into their first game. Beta code in test as we speak. Again this says a lot. They are in for the long haul.

All i can say is I’m very happy to have gone ahead and purchased this pin. Great game great build quality. I’ve had no issue with power supply or milk can shot 99.8% accurate to date. Tweaked a couple of switches to get it spot on. No different to what I do to current model Sterns. This game is really quite deep. Can’t thank Josh enough for his availability and input. Buy AP with confidence I say.

No. The announcement is referring to the Hot wheels legends tour. American Pinball has produced 3 quality games and backed it up with many code updates. They back up their games with good tech support as well.

Funny, your post outlines the reason why I'm planning on picking up Hot Wheels next. It looks like a really solid game and I'd love to support AP.

The answer to your question is,... NO!

No ... buy the game and have fun!
Just played HotWheels today fun game,nice flow on the ramps. Love that Williams build feel that they have.
People keep buying the door stays open. Customer service is beyond reproach!

Your entire post is speculation. Has there been an announcement or news report stating that AP is in any sort of financial trouble? I haven’t heard a thing. To be quite honest a lot of companies are struggling because of the pandemic impact. Seriously, has there been any credible reports mentioning financial trouble at AP?

No dude. All 3 of their games are outstanding and they have a long term plan to do contract builds, plus they are backed by a huge company doing other manufacturing. I’d feel confident

No worries here either, pulling the trigger on HW in the next week or two. As it stands now AP is about the only company I trust to deliver a product that won’t disappoint with maddening quality deficits (such as playfields and under-engineered, cost-cut mechs). I sincerely hope they are wildly successful and force Stern and JJP to seriously up their game in this regard (SO disappointed to see playfield issues with GNR, was almost 100% certain it would be my next game but potential quality issues with something as vital (and hard to replace) as the playfield makes me hard-pass at this time.

In my observation, AP has exhibited nothing less than consummate professionalism. What I really appreciate most is the refreshing absence of any bullshit! While just about every other company (except maybe Spooky) was floundering with widespread QC issues, grandiose announcements followed by vaporware and excuses, and ongoing decontenting and cheapening of the products AP appears to have been quietly kicking ass and taking names.

Buying a $$$$ high-end toy should be anxiety-free pure joy, NOT an exercise in bravery!

The only worry is resale value, quality and parts is a non factor. AP pins seem to take a more significant hit and have higher immediate depreciation than other titles by my math. I think that will correct as their name gets better and more titles come out. Love their originality and themes but they need a big title/license under their belt in the next couple of years IMO

good news is, it is made in the USA, so common parts are used and can be found
not like a game that was built from the ground up in china using no pre-existing parts

Over the years, I must have owned (literally) a hundred or more games, from all manufacturers.

I currently own a Houdini (purchased NIB) and I have to say that the build quality of this game is as good, or better than any game I have ever owned. Build quality has to be a 10/10. Stunning to look at and incredible gameplay, also, despite what the naysayers have to say.

To those of you who have never owned an AP game but wet your pants every time a new JJP or Stern game is announced, you don't know what you're missing. And, yes, I currently own a DI LE (great game) and have owned many Sterns.

Also, as others have said, AP tech support is legendary. After many games, a switch stopped registering. I called Dave in tech support and he diagnosed the issue in a few minutes, went out of his way to tell me an easy route to install a new switch and shipped a replacement switch to me, same day. It does not get any better than that.

Even if I thought AP would be going out of the pinball business (which they are not) my Houdini would not be going anywhere.

Roger

For what it’s worth, I’m planning on getting a Houdini after the first of the year when my bonus money comes in. I know there are naysayers but I’m pretty sure that those that have spent a material amount of time on it, think it’s a great and underrated pin. I don’t mind tight shots. Not the worst thing in the world for home use.

If people can keep their Atari, game plan, and zaccaria games running I don’t see why you’d worry about your AP game.

AP also has the ability to build games - an actual factory - and pinball demand is way up. Don’t see an issue, if you like an AP game buy it.

I have a subscription to Credit Risk Monitor (am a Chief Credit Officer for a fund in the Bay Area).

Trade payment data shows that the parent company (Aimtron) is paying its bills on time and has an index score of 9 out of 10 (10 being the best).

Also, the probability of the parent company to file for chapter 11 BK in the next 12 months is ranging between 1.2% and 1.6%.

full disclosure: I don't have the audited financials of this company since its privately held and am unable to give a personal opinion on the viability of the company.

I love my HW!! Just played a couple games on it, great flow and many ways to attack the scoring. All the shots feel really good

Owned a Houdini...loved it
Currently have an Oktoberfest...love it
Will own a Hot Wheels someday...sure I will love it

AP get's shit on way too much in IMO, shame really but you can pick up some great games for good prices.

Glad to hear that about Houdini, have you encountered any trouble with under-rated PS, lack of flipper EOS switches, or the stage mech? I seem to remember reading about these issues, but couldn’t really get a good “read” on how troublesome they were in the real world.

I really like the game, and definitely noticed the good quality feel even though I’ve spent less than an hour total on one. I have been set on HW, but Houdini is so unique and packed with goodies that I am very tempted, I just have slight reservations given the above (but I am more than willing to be talked out of my anxiety ).

I think you should wait until tomorrow...

If you are “taking a bath” on stern games you’ll take a bath on anything.

If this is a problem for you don’t buy new games, stick to used stuff.

If financial considerations are paralyzing ALL your pinball purchase decisions, this is probably the wrong hobby for you. Pinball not always a great investment portfolio.

If you are referring to your TWD, I just think you had bad luck. I had a TWD Pro that I payed $4500 for. After owning it for a year or so, I sold it quickly for $4750. A lot of it is just timing and luck, so I wouldn’t let a bad past experience dictate your future.

What a waste of time this thread was... asked for opinion if AP was going out of business then still won't commit because of depreciation!
Don't by a new car ....

Very satisfied owner of all three of their games here. Great tech support -- they're easy to reach on the phone and also are all over these forums. Very solid build quality. And they also make really entertaining, unique games. All three are quite different from each other in both theme and play. Houdini is a tight shooter requiring your "A" game with a black humorish theme, Oktoberfest is more wide open with ramp spaghetti everywhere with a festive beer and food and cheeky innuendo atmosphere, Hot Wheels is an easier shooter but very fast with a lot of flow with a fun cartoon theme, like eating four bowls of Lucky Charms during Saturday morning cartoons.

Also, I think some pinball people frequently overrate repair difficulty, and this is coming from someone who may have been playing pinball for 40 years, but has only owned them (and therefore, fixing them) for just a few. Difficult is finding one-off parts for old EMs, or with small early SS makers like Allied Leisure and GamePlan and Atari who's stuff breaks a lot and you either have to wait months for some dealer to get the part in stock and then charge $25 for a 50 cent piece of plastic, or rig something up yourself like MacGyver, or learn 3D printing, or buy non-working machines for parts. *That's* a pain.

Last I checked Bally and Williams were out of the pinball business and selling better then ever. Like B/W API uses all stock components off the shelf from PinballLife or similar. IF your only looking to buy games that don’t depreciate there are NONE!

I've owned a Houdini for about 2 years now, and it's not leaving anytime soon. Still the wife's favorite pin. Build quality is excellent, support is beyond great.

Also, keep in mind that Aimtron is the parent company of AP (they make PCB assemblies), so there is a bit a diversity in the financial aspect of it.

It also uses some of the P-ROC boards, so that's reassuring too.

That wouldn't be a 'new and exciting' announcement.
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Dude is deffo in wrong hobby

Of the massive influx of noobs, I’d guess at least 20 percent are in the wrong hobby.

They believe their new games should magically protected from depreciation, unlike anything else they buy.

They don’t think pinball is exciting or innovative enough. Yet they want to buy pinball machines. Doesn’t make much sense.

They think pinball is an investment.

They just don’t understand this hobby or pinball.

OK, let me talk you out of your anxiety:

I didn't mention that I have owned 2 Houdini's! The first was a couple of years ago and I, foolishly, sold it. I missed it so much that I purchased a new one NIB. In all my pinball years, I don't ever remember buying back the same game in such a short space of time.

I have never had a power supply problem, flipper problem or stage mech problem on either machine. Having said that, my newest one had the upgraded power supply from the factory and I added the cap kit for the flippers, not because it needed it but because everyone here said that it was a must to do. The cap kit was cheap enough, so I did it anyway, just for insurance. I also added a shaker motor, which is great.

Hope this helps you make a decision!

Roger

I never buy a pin with the goal of maximizing resell value or investment. I buy for the enjoyment.

The lack of EOS switches is a non-issue. I have them installed 'just because'. Makes absolutely no difference. I had one of them accidentally disconnected for a month and didn't notice. Reinstalled it. No difference.

AP did screw up on the original run of their power supplies. They provided an upgrade, games made in the past year or so (I'm not sure exactly) have a completely reworked power supply. There aren't many out in the wild that don't have either the upgrade or the new one.

There is a cheap upgrade to the flippers which *does* make a bit of difference. IT helps with extreme cases where there are magnets going, multiple balls flying, and the flippers get a little weak for a split second. IT is kind of noticeable (depends a lot on your house's power situation), and this helps. I'd call it an almost-must-have. But it's like $20 and takes 9 seconds to install.

The other issues are nonsense. The flippers are great 99.99% of the time, the power supply is a notable but not really that "noticeable" upgrade (again, depends on your house's consistency of electricity). The layout is very unique, it's hard without being punishing, and there's no game like it. PLUS THE FRICKIN CATAPULT IS COOL EVERY SINGLE TIME. Still. Also there's an update coming out hopefully soon...

Ditto here Rdoyle, never even bothered. I did get the power supply upgrade even though I have great power and didn't need it simply because they offered a $150 credit (that I really didn't use much of).

Might get the cap mod, just for the heck of it.

Ill also echo what many have said. I own several games, and houdini is hands down my favorite. Brutal game play, that will always challenge you. Amazing toys and tricks, and really cool code. Build quality is amazing. AP has also always been top notch when/if you need them.

You should worry less and try not to compare to other collectors. Everyone's case is different.

If you worry about taking a loss, maybe you should try trading machines and not just sell. If you have a good paying job or career, then what's the issue?

You can't buy game specific parts for even old Sterns from even the early 2000s.

This whole 'my company is no longer here' concern is a poor marker of ease of ownership in the pinball hobby.

When purchasing a Collectable you intend to keep its always a good idea to go ahead and get replacement parts for it while they are available.
After 10 years it will be great to pull out those replacement ramps or a new power source and not have to worry about it.

I sincerely thank both of you for taking the time to write those excellent responses; you did, in fact, successfully talk me out of my anxiety!

I can acknowledge that I’ve probably been a bit of an OCD control freak all my adult life, so the reassurance offers a little sense of the “control” I guess I crave. (Anxiety sucks, but it IS a damn powerful motivator, and honestly I probably wouldn’t be in a position to do things like write a check for a NIB pin without at least a little of it!)

AP is making the best pins outside of Stern and CGC, and definitely the best bang-for-buck. Long live AP!