Just buy Bally Williams and Data East. Problem solved.

Running out of room and not wanting to sell current pins.

I was really meh on everything Stern had made since Spike (even Maiden) but BK has me very interested.

Everything you've said I agree with. This is what has caused me to only own one pin now and consider giving up the hobby entirely. I was thinking of getting another game recently, but changed my mind. The one thing you left off your list is how quickly pins get boring. So in our house, my kids played WOZ like crazy for about 2 weeks, then they pretty much gave up with it. I played it for a few months, then stopped turning it on at all. This has been the story with every pin we've had. It wouldn't be so bad except the prices are so high on them it just makes me want to sell them vs letting them sit and not get played. There are still a few pins I am pursuing, but for the most part 99% of everything I have no interest in anymore. Black Knight is the first Stern in a long time that has me excited, the price is just a bit too steep for a Premium though.

I'm not judging anyone and how they spend their money. Really don't care, you do you. But yeah, I'm fully out now. People settle for some pretty dumb stuff for what they pay in my view. I'll pass.

I've been slowly whittling my games down, only have 4 now, might be time to make it 2. Not hard to find pinball if I want to play more. Shadow will probably stay, the other three might have to fight to death to see who's left standing.

No fatigue in terms of excitement about all the new games.

But, certainly thinking long and hard before buying anything NIB, due to increased costs and decreased overall quality.

Am interested in BKSR but will wait and play it a lot and see how code develops and then probably pick up HUO.

I think your first post hit it spot on. Location play has been key for me. I collect the games I can't play/find(especially in good shape) on location.

I enjoy playing pretty much every modern release especially IMDN, Deadpool, Guardians etc however we're lucky enough to have multiple copies of each around town. I play those games more than my home games honestly for the variety and atmosphere.

Finally yes you're totally right about pricing. Black Knight is the first game in a while I am really interesting in buying. However for ~$5500 for a pro I feel like I'm downgrading doing an even'ish trade for a robust game like TSPP or Spider-Man from my collection. Pricing has gotten prohibitive value-wise for me.

No, got my first last month and bk3 is looking tempting. Nothing interested me that much to pull the trigger In the past. I was lucky with maiden for tweaking but generally I realized I was tinkering, cleaning, and modding my games more than playing them. Maiden has been a blast.

It probably is the chief flaw of pinball for me -- how quickly a game can get stale versus how expensive they are. I got bored of my first pin in about six months (I did play it a ton). I still had fun when I played it, but the urge to turn it on was pretty small. After 10 months without a pin, I've decided to give a two(maybe 3) pin collection a try and see if it helps to have some variety -- the tentative plan is to enjoy them for 12-18 months sell them and then decide if I want more pins. We shall see . . . It does help, though, that I have a TNA and I can play co-op with my wife, it really changes the dynamics of playing pinball at the same time. Of course, we're in the honeymoon stage with the new pins and both of us are having a great time, I'm curious to see where we are in six months.

On topic, no fatigue for me yet on NIB. I'm trying to create some artificial fatigue to keep myself from spending more money. Now, I've only purchased three pins in my three years of being into the hobby so I might have a ways to go.

I'm not fatigued because I'm not buying anything however, seeing all the releases sure is exciting.

tumblr_lp2epd7QrL1qbhtrto1_500.gif

If it's something I'm REALLY, REALLY, REALLY interrested in I wouldn't want to wait, no matter what.

But the excitement to buy something NIB just for it being NIB and not for the game itself is something that has worn off... a bit.
Not nearly as much as I would like to be honest.

I as well have now a pinball Location near with all the latest games so I'm very happy that I can Play games there where I ask myself "How could I've even thought about buying this?". And by playing it the urge to have it mostly left (like it did now with The Musters).

BUT the opposite can happen. So I've played a lot of Maiden and Game of Thrones and I'm intrigued to buy them, even NIB, because they are games I know will stay a very, very long time in my collection and I want to support that and will enjoy it more.

Is this true? Did Borg really want 4 drops?

i cannot afford NIB games, and I dont have the space for more games anyway

I'm glad to see new games being produced, and hope that a friend will buy one so i can play it

Great conversation and good points. I feel like some of the points you bring up have been allowed to happen so easily because of pinball's popularity and surge of new money. I also feel that it is not sustainable. When the Johnny-Come-Latelys and whim driven obsessive types start heading for the door, reality may start to creep in on some of these manufacturers. I am still in for now, but my patience is wearing thin. The sales tax thing isn't gonna help these price increases. You would think that there is a breaking point for what the market will allow. I feel we are closing on it, fast.

BTW, I loved the Franklin Mint Coin manufactured rarity metaphor. That is classic.

Whenever a vet gets "NIB fatigue" seems like there's always one to take his place. PLenty of new people continue to get in the hobby, and the bubble continues to not burst after almost 20 years.

That's one resilient bubble!

Q: How do you know you have more money than God?

A: You're experiencing NIB "fatigue".

When I first started collecting it was all about quantity and having those certain must have pins, then it changed to 80's stuff then NIB Sterns 10 to 15 pins on average. In the last 2 years I realized I'm player first and collecting just didn't work for me. Since I went to a 2 maybe 3 pin set up not considering any purchase a long term keeper I'm enjoying myself much more. Thus its no big issue to buy NIB. I've played TWD Pre a few hundred times now and nothing left to do so I'm selling it to buy BK3. Maiden will go in the same way to fund something new down the line and theres never a lot of loss not that I care about that anyway. So as to ur question, Nope, now luckily for me theres only maybe 1 release every year more like 2 years that actually appeals to my taste giving me ample time to get tired of the pins I'm playing.

When I started collecting it was whatever was cheap and looked good. This resulted in a lot of ebay impulse buys and 6 hour drives to pick up ratty $200 Funfests. I see this happen with lots of new collectors, regardless of what kind of game they are buying and their budget.

Once you've been at it a while you tend to get more selective.

Selective and wiser. For me one of the biggest issues is selling, I hate it. People coming by and then nit picking looking for a deal. With 2 pins and no problem waiting on a new release I want to mature for a year I can sit back wait for that buyer who says I want it at my asking price, nice and easy. Like anything I just got tired of the whole process.

So what, Listen I've had all the greats and none of them lasted, now with the exception of being very wealthy and keeping every game you buy which I would most likely do in that case, jesus I'd love to go to my giant pinball room with 150 games in it, I'd enjoy just looking at them but well you know. Point is stop looking at it from a collectors stand point, once I did that I started enjoying it much more, loss the obsession aspect to this hobby, I used to have zero patience, had to have the game right away. Just a thought. One of my favorite things about pinball now is coming on to this site and aggravating the JJP fanboys it never gets old.

Thanks, sincerely.

I gave up NIB about 5 years ago...STLE was my last, and I was hesitant to buy that one due to the price increase. Almost bought GB due to love of theme, but the QC issues and horrible gameplay caused me to cancel. From them to now, the only games I've purchased were HUO Hobbit & TNA. Much easier and cheaper to just wait, KNOW I like a game, see it in person, then take it home.

Munsters & BK3 really really tempted me...I like Munsters OK after playing the LE, but I don't need it. Maybe if a used Premium shows up, I'll consider it. I need to play BK Pro & Prem/LE before deciding if I like it & which I like....so, just waiting to play - and again, I'm probably OK just waiting till a used one pops up if I like it.

Post #1 I fully agree with.

The endless hype train is getting old for me. Full credit to Stern though they have it down and are cashing in.

I am being a lot pickier with what I buy these days. I may still pick up another NIB but it would have to be an absolute dream theme for me along with excellent game play. Metallica is about the only game that ticks those boxes for me. Otherwise I will let someone else take the depreciation hit.

But if you pick up a new game and enjoy it that is sweet and what it is all about so who cares if some people are a bit jaded.

Part of me is just bummed because I've wanted an awesome NIB experience for a long time and the value proposition dropped off sharply after the GB era price hikes. I don't have any space left to add to the collection and I can't see the value in trading a full featured premium feeling game like Spider-Man for a clearly cost cut pro-level game. If I pay up for a premium it better be damn good!

I’ve only bought 2 NIB games in the 5 years I’ve been doing this. I’ve always had the itch to play the new games as early as possible, but luckily so far it hasn’t led me to buy lots of new stuff right away. That can turn into an expensive cycle. I’m glad I appreciate all eras.

I know lots of collectors don’t like tournaments, but I’m glad I got into that scene too as it has opened my eyes to so many awesome games.

I started out buying old non-working machines, fixing them, play them for awhile, and then either sell or trade them for something newer. I eventually worked up to newer Sterns which was all I had for a few years. I did not have to spend a lot of time fixing them, all I was doing was cleaning and some light maintenance. I recently traded a couple of the Sterns for older 90's machines and fell in love with their simpler gameplay and non-licensed themes. I then ended up with a non-working Cyclopes with alkaline damage, dusted off my soldering skills, and fixed it. I now have rediscovered how much I enjoy bringing a machine back to life, and how much fun an 80's machine can be. I currently have no desire to buy a brand new pin when I am having so much fun with the older ones.

I totally agree, but I bet it's a hell of a lot more expensive and involved to do 4 drops as opposed to a straight target with 4 sensors in the back. Again, I agree - for the price of these games, don't cheap out on some targets.

I think you pretty much nailed it on the head; especially on items 1, 2, & 3.

For me, i am a bit NIB fatigued, but i've become a much pickier person on what i buy now so that is a good thing. Having more location pinball to play has also helped; again thats a good thing. In the past i was all ready to buy an NIB strictly to own it for a few months then sell for minimal loss and buy the next release; 1. because it was hard to find games on location and 2. the losses were minimal. Now, not so much. Price hikes have played a factor.

Not only is the price hikes a big factor, but taxes are now a thing. I budgeted out $7500 for an NIB this year; the wife wants munsters and i wanted deadpool. However, I am not completely sold on either at that price point which is what's been holding me back on pulling the trigger - not to mention code is a much much bigger issue at these prices now ever than before. Plus, i dont see a lot of titles holding value as well as they used to so i just keep waiting on the sidelines, fatigued. Then, BK3 got announced and it sparked some life; i convinced myself to flex the budget to $9k, put in 3 calls to distributors and thats when i got the news of a new mandatory sales tax on pinballs increasing the price another $500-$700. Am i supposed to keep going over my budget and bend backwards for these fuckers? F*ck that shit, F*#k these prices. Good thing too though honestly, it brought me back to reality so i can wait and see what the rules & code will be like as well as deciding whether the pro or premium model suits me better. Shame too, as i was in a blind day dream thinking about how cool it would be to have Black Knight LE. Who knows, i may still get the LE but christ people, $9500 for a pinball...what the hell is wrong with me/us; and i am still trying to convince myself it's worth it...

I also had my sights on a new YBR WOZ with its rumored release (at the time). Thinking again to myself, ill try to flex my budget to $9500 for one of these and hope JJP figured out a way to reduce price (remove monkey mech) and maybe it'll be $8k and compete with stern. Nope...$11.5k, ugly as F*ck and the monkey mech is still removed, what a kick in the monkey balls if you ask me. OK, ill go with JJPOTC...oh wait, $9500 is still $2k above budget and when i convinced myself to flex that budget, i got told shipping would be another $450. Prices for these pins seem to be all over the place and not as written in stone as they used to be. I used to be able to call up a distributor and get the best price available no matter who i called. Now i have to play games and call 3 or 4 people, get quotes, find out who's shipping is least expensive all while keeping a good rep so they'll help support with any issues. And then someone posts that they get $8k shipped quotes for standard edition JJPOTC's, but they wont give me the source and when i ask distributors they tell me to F* off. It's very draining and seems like a lot of hoops to jump through now just to get a pinball. It was so much easier years back. But, Maybe it's just me?

As for the used market; i still believe used market is all about timing and location. Whenever im in the market to sell, prices are soft flat and low as shit. When im ready to buy; either they are way overpriced or no one wants to sell. I dont think the used market is as bad as a lot of people think, at least not in CA. But it will be interesting to see what happens in this next year with all these titles. At some point, something has to give...at least that's what we've been telling ourselves for the past 5 years haha.

Last tidbit of a story regarding used market and timing. As i convinced myself to flex the budget to $9k a used JJPOTC did come up for sale and i had first dibs. The seller would have been a 13-14 hour round trip drive for me and im so fatigued from all the releases and hobby i just couldnt come to making that long of a trip for a game that has been slowly going off my radar.

Well that's my rant. Im still looking forward and excited to buy an NIB this year, but i do want (need?) to stick to my guns in keeping it within budget because prices do seem so scarce and unpredictable.

That also sums up my thoughts.

rd

I think it's total bullshit that Stern is pumping out machines with these giant single stand up targets. Can you imagine what the old Bally and old Stern drop target games would look and play like with these stupid jumbo mono targets?!
It's really total crap. All I use to buy was LE's from Stern. Not anymore.
Take a look at your old games Gary! I don't mind companies trying to save a buck but there's no way in fucking hell im buying another game with another jumbo single target.

I agree, total bullshit and all the designers think that too. I will never buy a pinball machine where what is supposed to be an entire bank of drops is replaced with a super long spot target. It’s embarrasing(!) and a slap in the face to the pinball gods. This is why my interests lie mostly in 70s-90s pins now.

Plus, you’re addicted to Splatoon 2 now. $60 for unlimited addicting fun....certainly puts pinball in perspective.

My wife and I have NIB fatigue. We have 10 NIB games (deadpool LE and Iron Maiden Premium were most recent). We are blessed to be able to afford these games, but nothing at the Texas Pinball Festival excited us enough to buy another. Munster's was interesting as was Pirates of the Caribbean. I thought Stern cheaped out by simplifying the drop targets on Munsters with a single wide target, for example; this seemed to be penny wise but pound foolish.

My wife always wants something new after these shows (me too) but not this year. We have enough variety that our expectations are higher as is our experience as to what to expect in terms of rules, design and art. Stern also has to finish the code on games like GB before I consider another, we know better now than when we were new to the hobby. JJP also seemed to take a step back with the new Yellow brick rode WOZ. We have a Dialed in CE so we can splurge on extra bling, but taking out a major feature seems counter intuitive.

We expect more innovation not less in our next purchase. Perhaps we are not representative of the typical new pinball machine buyer...

NIB fatigue, similar to Star Wars burnout. Not as exciting when they come out every five months.

For me I'm at the point that I can play 100+ machines for 50 or 75 cents maybe a dollar within a half hour drive from my house. Why bother spending thousands? Sure it would be nice to walk downstairs and play the latest and greatest, but it just doesn't make sense anymore.

You mentioned collectability, but didn't mention remakes. Those were a kick in the nuts for me. Really "sucked the special" out of certain aspects of the hobby/market.

I think there would be a strong leasing customer base if a distributor decided to go down that route. I would pay $100 for a month of unlimited play in my home.

Hah this man speaks truth!

To be fair, Pinball is more relaxing and stress relieving than splatoon. But hot dam, value + Adrenalin wise, splatoon is da bomb!

This exactly. I bought every new game that came out around your same time period. You hit the nail on the head with all of your reasoning for the personal NIB slow down. I feel the same way. Well said.

Brian

I'm actually getting back into the NIB swing after taking a 4 year break.

The fun part is.. your points basically ring true for people who got in the hobby earlier. Those points pretty much apply to anyone who got in at some point during the last 20 years... minus the dip leading up to Stern's near implosion in 2008.

1) Price, why pay 4-5k for games when you are used to paying 500-2000 for games? We were also used to games falling in value relatively quickly.
2) People had collections, or knew where to go to play. Even if not local, people knew when/where they'd travel to see/play stuff
3) Old blood never bought into the LE theory... tho many tried to capitalize on the speculation market as people would overpay for NIB availability
4) Old blood had no problem buying used games vs people who used NIB as a shield to get 'known good'

These days you can see the trend repeat itself over and over on pinside with New titles. There is more energy and hype about titles BEFORE they are available than once the games are available in volume. People are addicted to 'whats next' and 'whats new' more than they are the actual game. Now with titles coming out so fast... it's like people eating too much candy. They can't take it all and still enjoy it.

'what can be revealed' is actually higher traction and more to post about... than what is actually in hand.

That is hard to maintain when there is so much going on and multiple streams to distract people.

This is great advice - however most of these games turn out to be close In price to a NIB Stern pro’

TWD was the last NIB Stern I bought.

The latest games are really great, but new prices are stupid high and perfect HUO games are available six months after release.

Doesn’t make sense to buy NIB anymore.

I totally agree with this as well.

Ain’t this the truth. Watched it happen time and time again - the anticipation level is off the charts - then the release of pictures, everyone is jizzing themselves, by the time games are going out the door the thread is dying, two weeks later ... crickets. Bring on the next one. It’s only a few weeks away ...

Rinse and repeat.

rd

My last two nib were met pro then st prem. Soon after acquired a beautiful
restored mb at a high cost and then the remakes happened. That was my kick in the nuts
and a hold on any nib pickups. So after st my fatigue pretty much set in with nib.
I have a hard time trying to let go any of my true premium featured Stern pins for what’s out
there now nib. Space is always an issue but the cost has just got out of hand.
Yes I’m feeling it for BK now and it’s certainly tempting. It’s a nice change from playing
around a tv or movie theme. Yes a used DI has been tempting too as they seem to be popping up
all over since folks are preparing for Willy to appear soon. But having numerous home projects
going on within the last year certainly keeps my cash safe at least from nib.