I really think it depends on the person. Time, family, work, cash flow, space, etc... Ive fluctuated from 1-5 pins since starting this hobby in 2004. I have 3 pins right now; and feel 3 has been a perfect fit for me as i have a wife, 2 small kids, a job, and a few other hobbies. Finding balance within moderation is the key IMO. That said, i will soon have #4 in the lineup and believe that will be a perfect fit

Yeah, I'm a bit burned out. Buying new is like buying a first year car model change. You get to pay full price, work the bugs out, and take a hit when you want to sell a year later.

I fired up my Pinball Pimp restored TZ last night and remembered why I am not buying new pins. I have the same $ in my TZ as a new Stern LE and the TZ will always be worth what I paid and truly has just as much, if not more, features than anything that has been produced since then. I no longer like to house and maintain 10 machines and have found that older video games are fun to collect also at roughly 25% of the cost.

I guess it just matters how much you like a theme and how bad you want to be the first one to play that machine. I definitely am not paying $12k for any pin. When the Batman 66 expensive edition came out I could not believe they actually sold them. I see JJ is now seeing CE editions for big money also. More power to them if they can get it - it is a great economy now. We might have to revisit these thoughts in a few years if the economy changes.

Until people get fed up and stop paying exorbitant prices for these shit pins the prices will stay the same.

I actually agree that 3 is the perfect size collection in a sense. You just have to rotate them in and out a lot...which I don't like doing.

I'm up to 19 now, but I'm generally only playing 3 at a time. I mix up the 3 I'm playing, so I never really burn out on a game.

Well come on now.

If a new AFM was $3500 back in 1995 (not sure but I’m guessing) a new AFM CE is $6000 that’s spot on the same price after inflation.

If anyone thinks a Stern pro is as good as AFM CE they can buy one for less than $6k.

I’m not a fan of Munsters, Beatles etc,, but some people like them enough to buy.

Price is whatever the market can bear. If they’re too expensive they won’t sell.

I’m not sure why you need to be upset about the price. For gosh sakes let’s all get upset cars are too expensive while we’re complaining $50K for a pickup truck or minivan. Honda Civic is now starting at $20K let that sink in, $27K for a Civic Touring. Old man shakes fist as sky.

Point being glad they are making as many nib pins and they are and glad people are buying them, not every game will be great but the more pins made the more chances we can have of getting the next TAF or the next xyz greatest pin.

Well come on now.
If a new AFM was $3500 back in 1995 (not sure but I’m guessing) a new AFM CE is $6000 that’s spot on the same price after inflation. [/quote]

But hobbyists weren’t paying that... nor were they buying nib. The market was carried by operators paying that. They are different. Hobbyists were buying games for nothing to 2k. That was a completely different market.

But the flood of new buyers has chases all prices up... combined with the buyers who are willing to pay for nib which skews average prices too.

The number of buyers out there now has changed everything so dramatically

But the pinball market has changed because operators were getting less and less and home market has been more prominent lately. I bought a PotC new 12 years ago and it was $4K iirc. It still looks brand new, in old days when I got a 10 year old T2 it was off route for $1800 and it didn’t look brand new. People spend a fortune to bring an old game up to brand new looking or can buy a brand new game like AFM remake it’s brand new and costs less than some CQ older versions.

Stern was not going to charge less because you are a home buyer not an operator. A sale is a sale, if no one buying nib they will go out of business that’s clear as day. No one is paying Stern anything unless they make pins new (or remakes).

2018 for me really burned me out quick on Stern NIB games. Especially Pro versions. They have whittled them down so much that they just don't feel complete to me. Iron Maiden Pro lasted 4 months and I was upset I didn't get the Premium version. Then Deadpool just didn't do it for me again after playing the Pro version at local Barcade.

Munsters came out and really got me excited again about Stern games. Loved the ruleset. Got to play the LE at 1up Greenwood and fell slowly in love with it. I can't walk by the game without plunking quarters into it. Checking out Barcades over last couple months Logans and 1up and others while I traveled and realized that Premium and LE games really felt better.

My current issues though with NIB games are quality.
#1. Dimples ( Stern, CGC ) they all dimple now. Cheap materials . Consider an alternative quality material
#2. Retheme / Repurpose . GOTG/MET come on guys. Primus / PBR / Melons game. Please stop. Shrek / family guy all over
#3. Licensed games ( Hope Black Knight sells hotcakes as I'd like to see more creative freedom )
#4. No Open Source - User maintainable code - ( I'm sure I can fix many of these mistakes / bugs given a chance to contribute, or tweak it the way I want it )
#5 Complex rulesets that make games no fun to play in tournaments. I don't have time to learn a ruleset like Magic the Gathering or Pokemon to play. Stop this and make games like 90s

While NIB games have the above issues. It hasn't stopped me from getting on bandwagon of new games. BKSOR has given me some hope that Stern can move in a better direction. I've owned most of the classic Williams and Bally's titles and know what games keep me coming back or hold nostalgia value for me.
Hopefully the NIB purchases I have slated this year will keep me happy for awhile. Selling some of my games to make room for these.
Haven't had to inject to much money into hobby, selling off some of classics. Just like a BOAT really.

I like the idea of the new Black Knight coming out. I am honestly kinda tired of the old rock theme formula, and generally I like all the bands that have been remade. With so many out there now it kinda takes away, IMO.
As far as collectible. Unless people really value unique originals there is no more collectible pinballs out there. As soon as the value is higher than you can make the game there is a good chance you will be able to buy NIB again, and always.

I have a lot of unique, what I consider collectible games. I don’t see most NIb games today like that. Buy them because you like them. IMO very few will be collectible in 20 years.

Another thing. When selling a game that is out of the box and not collectible, it should sell for LESS than what it was new. People talk about getting burned. Come on, if you buy something new, take it out of the box and use it. Then want to sell it you should get LESS money than you bought it for. If you call this gettting burned by losing $500 you need to get a new hobby.

I am more than satisfied playing all the great games that have existed and proven themselves as great games. None of the new games are bringing anything to the table I can't find in established older games.

I dunno, i kind of disagree with most of this. But i can see your points, and there's all sorts of things in this hobby that lure us in.

I used to be an LE/PREM snob, so on the subject of Stern Pro's: I have seen the light and think they play fantastic and more fun than their counterpart premium - in most cases. Now pro's do play faster, and are typically more brutal, so maybe that's the appeal that lure's me in for home enviroment?

IMDN Pro is a total package. I get the love for the premium, but it can be a long time game and the premium plays even longer which is why im more drawn to the pro. Another fantastic thing about IMDN that gets overlooked is while it can be a longer player, the software settings alone can be setup to make the game harder and faster while at the same time balancing progression. Then you can make it even take it to the next level and make the physical nature of the game harder all while keeping that balance of progression. Keith and his team did a stellar job at giving us owners so many adjustment settings.

As for DP; there isn't much difference on the surface between pro and prem models; but the differences do seem to be huge. And i agree; the premium might just be the way to go on that title. But, have you played it on 1.00 code? DP is one of those games where code saved it. Big Kudos to Tanio Klyce and his team for getting that game to where it is today.

Munsters: I havent even played the pro, but i love the LE gameplay and the premium package looks sweet. Im a fan of FGY Stewie mini pf so naturally, i loved playing grandpa's laboratory mini pf. Ive heard mixed reviews on that mini pf and i think people are onto something with the power settings of the mini pf need to be tweaked for it to be a better, more inviting experience. That all said, the simple ruleset has me wondering if this game has any kind of lastability in a home enviroment.

Speaking of rules (and tournament play): It's funny, i pick up on modern day rules fairly quickly. It's older games that intimidate me to play in tournaments and competition. I feel like i could hold my own against some of the best pinball players in the world if we were sticking to modern games. But, tournaments always throw in a mix of older pins that ive never seen before which imbalances the playing level. Too bad the stern pro circuit didnt end up being Stern Pro only machines with no ranking requirement

Dimples....Really?

Theme: Stern turns around so many games a year, they're not trying to please every demographic with each release. Talk to distributors; for the most part they have different groups of consumers who typically gravitate to the same themes. Stern is really trying to reach all sorts of demographics with their themes and titles. The drawback is, they cant please everyone. But if they keep the wheels going and the games pumping out, then that cant be such a bad thing. I mean look at the past couple years...SW, IMDN, DP, Beatles, Munsters, Jurasic World (Rumored)...these themes are all over the place and not targeted at one specific audience.

Rules gone wild: deep rulesets are great for home enviroment. But deep rules can be overrated and misunderstood; i.e. deep rulesets don't always equal a good thing. Rulesets need to match game layouts and designs. So to me, what's more important than depth, is a little thing we like to call "breadth". Breadth gives you variety, and different ways to attack a game - it allows diversity while keeping a sense of depth. SW is a perfect example of a ruleset matching its layout with very breadth-like rules.

Too expensive? Yup. But it wasn't the price, it was the drop in value. What's the lowest price possible on a Munsters Pro? 5600? That's a lot of cash for an unproven game. So it takes longer to buy now. A game needs to prove itself to be stunning before that kind of cash gets spent. I had said this would happen for me once a NIB Pro went over 5k.

Too many games? Yup. A game needs to be something special. Granted, I've bought 6 games in the past year, but they had something special. I'm a lot more fussy now. And I usually try (and fail) to push a game out the door when a new one comes in due to space.

I like my games too much? Yup. So say I want to buy a NIB game that looks good... am I supposed to push Metallica out the door? That won't happen. It's too good a game, and I still like playing it. I'm having this issue with too many games now. It's causing a logjam in the house.

I'm not experiencing fatigue from it. but I've also changed my buying habits.

The new Stern pros (and most games) have color display. I always put $410 color DMD in my pins (great mod) so that every last one of them IM Vault, Met pro, TWD pro, Tron pro while they did cost $4600-4700 the real cost of NIB plus Color DMD was $5K-5100 fairly close to the new Stern pro cost (which may now have play field supports and LEDs which many people added to the 5-7 year old pins). Not saying LEDs cost any more than incandescent but when you need to put 100 bulbs in a machine vs one that comes with full LEDs the price is not much difference.

However, I have not found a Spike game that made me want to buy it (not even Maiden) and my last Stern were SAM (ST and TWD).

Not all new games are super complex (GOT, SW, PotC, TWD) but there are some like that and many people enjoy them. I don't see that as a bad thing, in fact its one of the better things to me (TWD for example). Course I'm not a tournament player so just for fun, but the complex rules (AcDC have had for years and I'm still learning new things). But most games like TWD or AcDc will give some easy rules for novice players and more complex and nuanced for players who want to dig deeper.

There are quite a few games that have not complex rules like AFM remake and TNA so it's not like every new pin is super complex.

The complex rule issue for tourneys is interesting. In my experience the way games are typically set up, the deep rule aspects do NOT come into play. What is important is knowing a few key, safe, efficient scoring strategies and being able to execute them under the game setup.

Watch any number of twitch streams of tourneys. Look at the DTM scores of games in the quarterfinals, semifinals and final 4. (I like to screenshot these to remind myself of tournament reality versus what people post online about things they've accomplished at home).

Most of the time finals scores do not reflect blowing up games, reaching wizard modes or even getting that deep in the game.

It's knowing where the *upfront points* are and being skilled enough to earn them. The problem is when rules are not intuitive, and if a player has not been exposed to the game, they are not going to figure out too much the day of tourney.

I *want* to buy new games...

But after numerous issues with my last NIB & several unanswered emails from Stern plus high prices I'm in no hurry.

It helps they haven't had a title in a while that checks enough boxes for me. As pricing increases so does my checklist.

They appear to be taking code very serious so I'm equally very optimistic I will get something soon. Just wish they'd do more themes that appeal to Gen X buyers.

My efforts to make road trips to play pinball in general are experiencing NIB fatigue...

Sometimes I do roadies to larger cities and sleep in my car specifically to get a good day/nights worth of pinball, beer, and grub in. I've noticed lately, however, that more and more locations are running the same 5 latest Sterns with some featuring the odd ball Williams in there.

Kind of an off topic weird problem I guess

I tried telling myself that too.

Fatigue haha lol!

This is the only influence in current Pin pricing. Manufacturing costs have absolutely nothing to do with the current sales pricing structures.

Manufacturing costs set floor price. If you can't sell them for that, you stop making them.

Sales price is determined by demand. NIB hype is an indicator of growing interest in the hobby. As long as that interest continues to grow, prices will rise until they reach that saturation point.

Sterns increased cheapness ! Thanks for pointing that out I thought I was the only
One who noticed ?

exactly this, I sold everything last year and do not miss a single one. I occasionally think about getting one game to rotate in and out, but lose interest pretty quick. The entire scene is overpriced and full of empty promises by Manufacturers and vendors.

I am seeing this more and more and from people that thought I was full of shit years ago. Im sure everyone burns out after a while as it seems every pinhead goes into full batshit crazy mode after their first one and then burns out like a meteor down the road. Now that prices are so high and quality so low and all the games coming out are the same shit different theme Im sure burnout happens faster.

my issue had always been space, now that I have a legit game room my issue is the prices nib vs open box HUO and the savings involved if you just wait. I can't see ever buying an LE from stern again, they just don't have the luster to me like the MAJOR upgrades a tron le had. I also have a slim collection as I have sold off a few games that got boring to me. The amount of companies, games, remakes, and people selling 1-3 month old games is crazy now. I remember when I waited 8 months to find the 1st Scared Stiff that popped up for sale. Not sure how many games Chicago Gaming is going to sell in the next release, they remake a great model but after the big 3 I think interest at a mass level will drop drastically. Now you can find anything basically in a month. I think the bubble will burst soon on the super LE models as well. I will never drop 12.5+K on a nib game. It's a great time for the hobby with the amount of choices we all have, however it sucks to pay almost 6K for a Pro & and stick with it.....at least in my home. The tax thing also puts a major damper on NIB sales for me.

I'm kinda in the same boat, Woody, but if I sold the games, I don't know what I'd do with the third of my basement that's always been a game room. I keep them more because they're my favorites I've collected over the years. Most are ones I've restored. I certainly don't play them much anymore.

Maybe I'm saving them for my kids. I've got 4 at my daughter's house and 3 at my son's, along with the 10 I have here. At least for now, they enjoy playing them.

As for new games....no interest whatsoever....other than Lebowski. I'd love that game but no way I'm going to spend the kind of money the hostage ones may get if/when they ever get sold.

The last new themed game I bought was an AS Pro which I still like and still play. Since then I have bought the remakes (love em, classic and just a lot of fun) and AC/DC Pre VE (my wife wanted that one). I have that rush of adrenaline for all things shinny when a new game comes out but recently only Munsters and BK have interested me. Munsters I almost pulled the trigger on a Premium but that giant target in place of drop-downs just bugs me. BK I wish there was more action on the upper PF. So, will play them at Allentown and see how it goes, but probably won't add either. I'm retired IT and I like getting the older games to work on. I restored a TFTC and a Grand Lizard and it was a lot of fun. Looking for another project. Turning the basement into a horror themed game room (to appease my inner 12 year old) has been a constructive hobby and it gets a lot of use when I have pinball night with my friends from league and the local pinball community. But otherwise I play my pins for about an hour most nights. It's just relaxing. But I'm no longer jumping on new releases (I think the curse has been broken!) and no longer feeling pinball poor. The only thing I have in the pipeline is an ACNC of which I have been in line since day one, and should get around July of 2029.... (sarcasm!). Maybe a game will come out and WOW me again, but it's been a while. I'd be up for a TAFr but I don't think that's going to happen.

Quite true. (I was about to type "just keep telling yourself that" when I read your response post.)

I have four and play them all about equally. There are a couple of new ones that interest me, but I'm just hung up on growing the collection...or not growing it. That's the biggest part of NIB fatigue for me.

I'm fatigued on machines that aren't MECHANICALLY innovative.

Past several years exciting to see more sophisticated LEDs and LED orchestration. And I'm one of those guys who think LCDs have added a lot. Much better sound and more creative use of music has reenergized the rock band theme.

I'm glad these new elements are here to stay.

But I feel like otherwise, we've seen a bit of a rut. Of the past several new releases, the only one that really seemed interesting to me has been JJPs POTC because it seemed mechanically to do things I hadn't seen before.

I have hopes for BK because the original is what got me into the hobby. But to be honest, I don't see it as mechanically interesting. Same with Willy Wonka: I just don't consider an intermittent reveal of a drop hole and small magnet distribution to be all that. But that's just me.

So pins then just become vehicles for the theme/license without the mechanical innovation. And if I wanted that, I'd just go videogame, which does the same thing but cheaper and with less maintenance.

I like my collection. It's got a mix of games that I consider mechanically interesting. But for me to even consider another NIB purchase, the game needs to do something MECHANICALLY that I haven't seen before at this point.