Hello,

First I am a French guy (sorry for my english) and today I solicit the international community.

To date, after more than 3 months of investigations, waiting for deliveries, revisions, modifications,... Well, my Gottlieb Tag-Team Pinball (SYS80B) still doesn't work!

I expose here the current symptoms (which seem to be stable and do not evolve any more):

- When turning on the pinball machine, the T.A.G target set rises twice but not the T.E.A.M target set
- In solenoids test mode, the tests of SOL5, SOL6 and SOL7 raise ALL the T.A.G target set (and only this one)
=> Note that SOL5 = T.A.G ; that SOL6 = T.E.A.M and that SOL7 = is not supposed to be used !
To see this, I suggest to watch this Youtube video :

- At the start of a game...
- the T.A.G target set rises twice but not the T.E.A.M target set
- the pinball machine acts as if (at least sonically) it were starting two games in a row (the game start sound sequence is heard twice)
- lowering targets does not produce any sound
- the sounds are (sometimes) not adapted to the action
To see this, I suggest to check this Youtube video :

Obviously, and as is, the pinball machine is not functional. I've been looking deeper for more than 3 months now (problems discovered on March 19, 2022; globally following the dismantling of the cards from the backbox to take pictures of them) but I can't find the cause.

So I did some things on the pinball machine. I expose here all that has been undertaken:

- Replacement of all the fuses of the pinball machine
- Complete overhaul and "refurbishment" of all the backbox cards (by a pro)
- Purchase of a new power supply card (with a small 5V display)
- Measured the 5V output of the power card: 5,08V
IMG_3680 (resized).jpg
- Measurement of the 5V at the CPU : 5,00V
IMG_3681 (resized).jpg
- Measurement of the 5V at the level of the driver: 4.94V
IMG_3682 (resized).jpg
- Change of all the pins of all the connectors of the backbox (except the bifurcated; black connectors for the moment cause I don't have them)
- Test without black connector (A3-J3) of the driver
- Test with another CPU <=> Driver connector (A3-J1 -- A1-J4)
- Complete overhaul of the backplane's mass holders / "nipple cards"
- Change of all the ground connectors' pins but also those around
- Disassembly of the TAG target set, checked coil, etc.
- Check (but not replace) the connectors of the TAG and TEAM target blocks
- Checking the fuse holder of the bottom plate. Cleaning the supports.
- Measurements at the terminals of the large capacitor of the bottom plate (12.86 / 12.93 depending on the mode because in "attract mode" the flipper alternates between yellow illumination / red illumination equivalent to the multi-ball mode in game).
IMG_3678 (resized).jpg
IMG_3679 (resized).jpg
Rem: I didn't change this big capacitor (I only have to change this one, I think) but this one is not the original one.
- I checked the small plates with the diodes. All the diodes seem to be good. They block well in one direction and give a value (multimeter in diode mode) in the other. However, the values are not identical between the diodes (I do not know if this has an impact)?

At this stage, I really ask for help, tracks, suggestions or any element which can help me because there, I really do not know what to do...

"PLEAAAAAASE HEEEEEELP" (to quote Leeloo, in the 5th element)

Hi all,

Sorry for the delay, I'm a bit overbooked at the moment.

So, to respond to @forceflow...
- drop target coils have diodes on the lugs => Yes
- Have you tested the diodes? => yes and no ; see below
- Checked the playfield wiring? => yes, it seems to be good
- Drop target coils wired correctly => yes, furthermore the pinball worked very well before (the trigger is I unmount / remount cards from backbox in March to take them in photo. After that, (I suppose it was the trigger) the pinball has stopped working properly...
- do they trace back to the correct place on the connectors, and lead back to the correct drivers on the driver board => yes + read below
- Connector pins clean (and not corroded)? => yes and no, I will change them but it is not the cause
- Wires have continuity through the connector pins? => yes + read below
- Photos of the wiring for the coils on the drop target assemblies
IMG_3699 (resized).jpgIMG_3700 (resized).jpgIMG_3701 (resized).jpgIMG_3702 (resized).jpgIMG_3703 (resized).jpg
IMG_3704 (resized).jpgIMG_3705 (resized).jpg

Then, I got some other leads to explore today...

So given that (globally and to make it simple) SOL5 (TAG) activates (in TEST mode) whether it is during the test of SOL5 (TAG), SOL6(TEAM) or SOL7(NOT ATTRIBUTED), the hypothesis of this morning's tests is to discriminate the fact that something other than a command (e.g. a little ghost under the playfield) could activate the coils.

Sub-hypothesis (among others): If SOL5 (TAG), SOL6(TEAM) or SOL8(GONG) are unplugged then none of the coils should activate in TEST mode

Procedure: Disconnect the control wires (in fact I just masked the dedicated track(s) of the driver) associated to the coils SOL5 (TAG), SOL6(TEAM) on A3J4 and SOL8 (GONG) on A3J5. Then launch a TEST mode of the coils.
Note that I could not disconnect/mask SOL7 because on the TAG-TEAM SOL7 is not supposed to be controlled and besides, SOL7 should be on A3J6 which does not exist on this pinball !

The results are shown in the table below.
How to read it?
>> The rows and columns correspond to the wire(s) that has/have been disconnected on the driver
>> So if we take the box SOL5:TAG / SOL5:TAG : it corresponds to disconnect ONLY the wire which commands SOL5:TAG
>> the box SOL5:TAG / SOL6:TEAM corresponds to disconnect the wire that controls SOL5:TAG but also the wire that controls SOL6:TEAM
>> etc...

How to read the results ?
>> For each coil I indicate if it has been activated (1) or not (0) or even if it has been activated several times (in fact, this concerns only SOL5:TAG)

tableau (resized).png

How to interpret the results?
>> Well, overall our hypothesis that an external element activates the coils is not validated (Cool!!)
>> In other words, when SOL5 (TAG), SOL6(TEAM) and SOL8(GONG) are disconnected, nothing happens (Phew !)
>> So yes, this result is not in the table but I did the test to disconnect the 3...

So well... It doesn't solve the problem and I'm not (finally) more advanced.

So, I started another test this morning.

Hypothesis: one (or more) diodes of the concerned coils (SOL5:TAG, SOL6:TEAM or SOL8:GONG) is dead...

Approach: I didn't take the time this morning to desolder the diodes of the coils, but each of these coils (SOL5:TAG, SOL6:TEAM or SOL8:GONG) can be easily connected/disconnected under the playfield by dedicated connectors.
So I thought that if I disconnected the coil(s), then the diode would not enter the circuit anymore allowing to discriminate the coil/diode combo at first.
Note that I proceeded to exactly the same tests as the table above. I unplugged, I launched a TEST mode and I watched which was activated (or not).

So, what are the results?
>> Well... Exactly the same as the table above! (So I don't paste it here) No DELTA!

In fact, according to me, my problems do not come from the coils concerned or the associated diodes. (Stop me if I'm wrong).

Well, as a general conclusion, I'm not much further ahead...

Nevertheless, I'd like to come back to one point: my problems involve the coils but also some sounds (in game mode) which are not the right ones at the right time.
>> For example, shooting the targets does not produce any sound anymore.

I found (unless I'm mistaken) that the only driver connection that links coils (SOL8:GONG) and sounds is A3J5.
However, I am not able to say to which number corresponds which sound... (for example, I would like to know to which number corresponds the sound associated to the shot of a target).
I summarize here the A3J4 connector (8 rows)
Row 1 : Sound 4
Row 2 : ///
Row 3 : GND
Row 4 : ///
Row 5 : Sound 2
Row 6: Sound 1
Row 7: Sound 8
Row 8: SOL8:GONG

That's also why I added SOL8:GONG to my tests (I told myself that SOL8 was the problem. However, even unplugged my problems remain there...)
I don't know if I should be so hard on this connector or not but it can give you some ideas.

connecteurs (resized).png

Then, this afternoon I made two others tests :

As my problems concern SOL5:TAG and SOL6:TEAM (and I haven't seen the latter activated for a long time) I tested the activation of SOL5:TAG and SOL6:TEAM directly from the A3-J4 connector. In other words, I bypassed the CPU / DRIVER.

For information here is the A3-J4 connector (15 rows) for the TAG-TEAM
Row 1 : L36
Row 2 : L37
Row 3 : L39
Row 4 : L38
Row 5: GND LAMP
Row 6: SOL5
Row 7: SOL1
Row 8: GND SOL1 and 9
Row 9: GND SOL6
Row 10: GND SOL2
Row 11: GND SOL6
Row 12: SOL6
Row 13: SOL2
Rank 14: GND SOL5
Row 15: ///

Test 1 : cable between rank 6 (SOL5:TAG) and any ground of the pinball machine ==> SOL5:TAG is activated !
Test 2 : cable between rank 12 (SOL6:TEAM) and any pinball ground ==> SOL6:TEAM is activated !
Test 3 : shunt between rank 6 (SOL5:TAG) and rank 14 (SOL5:GND) ==> SOL5:TAG is activated !
Test 4 : shunt between rank 12 (SOL6:TEAM) and rank 11 (SOL6:GND) ==> SOL6:TEAM is activated !

So the coils work correctly. The control cables are OK and their associated grounds too...

Even though my CPU has just been checked (by a pro), I wonder if the problem isn't coming from there anyway...

This time I have no way to compare / test this.

And to respond to @shogun00, here the photos of my cards (all freshly checked) :

IMG_3695 (resized).jpgIMG_3696 (resized).jpgIMG_3697 (resized).jpgIMG_3698 (resized).jpg

Hello all,

Tests of the day :

- Added a 3K resistor between TC1 pins 7 and 11 => Nothing new, problems still there.
- Test by disconnecting all the switches of the CPU (basically disconnecting A1-J6) => Nothing new, problems still there.
- Test of the "big condo" => 9993uF / 10000uF ... So it's not him either!

Now it's clear, it's starting to be complicated, very complicated !

So, my problem being persistent after many checks and modifications, I put my pinball machine in the trunk of my car and took it to an expert.

Well, believe it or not, my problem was related to "a tiny metallic dust" that was touching two Z29 legs on the CPU and that was causing these problems.

Unfortunately, on the test bench, it was not detected...

Anyway, today the pinball machine is working perfectly again. I really thank all the contributors of this topic