The repetitive argument is horseshit, like IM doesn't get repetitive or any pinball machine for that matter. MM has to be one of the most repetitive games out there, why so much ST hate? I think its from mostly STTNG owners, but why? I love that game and IM and STLE but I'm not bashing any of them, please fella name me a pin that doesn't get repetitive and playing STLE on site is a far reach from in house with dark lighting and loud volume.

I knew it Taylor34 is a STTNG owner, now I get it because that game doesn't have repetitive modes its just different every time you play it (heavy sarcasm).

Excellent detective work there, Chief Wiggum.

The difference is Stern Star Trek gets repetitive from mode to mode. Each level 1 mode is (or seems) exactly the same right now. Layout is good, sounds are good, the ship toy is good, but it desperately needs a code update.

Well, the code's not finished on Stern's so that particular comparison (one I wasn't even making) is on hold.

The comparisons I was making involves the physical game itself. Stern's Star Trek is much faster, flows better, has a substantially better light show (LE/Premium), has a superior interactive toy (Vengeance vs. lame Lore Borg ship) and is less of a drain monster.

IMO IM is one of best games ever. ST not even top 10 Stern. But there are plenty of each in the wild, so go find them and play them and then make a decision. Used ST's are probably starting to show up more frequently, so you can get a deal on a HUO most likely.

"Crush" is an absurd word to use in comparing any game with IM. No game "crushes" IM. IM crushes you.

On the dimples topic, my 1 year old AVLE came to me with very few diples. 500 games later and they are everywhere. Therefore I don't think clear coat cure time is the key. If you play them, I think it is inevitable until they start using a harder Playfield surface.

I could see how people aren't very good players, and whose mpression of a game is influenced primarily by how "bright" a game is could feel this way.

Skilled players learn to work with the drains on the far superior, better flowing STTNG, but certainly ST is better for beginner players. [hint: don't miss, don't flail, and learn to control the ball, and the "monster drains" aren't much of an issue.]

What I don't understand is how someone who is that impressed by light shows and brightness would prefer the do-nothing Vengeance ship (IT SHAKES!!!!) to the borg ship, which actually shoots the ball at you in three dimensional fashion.

It just goes to show there's a game for everyone! That's why pinball is so fabulous.

Get an AVLE. You won't be disappointed!

How did pinball survive for so many years without the glassy smooth ultra clear?

I had a hulk
I found this very frustrating game
ramps are extremely narrow

Yeah, we can only speculate, I guess...but for instance my FGY got dimples when I first got it...but they never got worse...at some point it just stopped dimpling. Same with my STLE....but my friend's STLE looked like it had eczema after a few weeks. Maybe SOME dimpling is always inevitable ...but I think the level of dimpling has some dependency on cure time.

That's what I heard. Cure time and there's someone on here that buys a NIB and waits 6 months to play it and swears by this.

I do not have the patience or ability to let a NIB pin sit for more than a day - if even that long.

I would just like to volunteer that FGY is the worst pinball abbreviation in history.

Yeah, same here...but - I've owned Iron Man before...so it's not like it's NEW new new....I might be able to wait a week or two...maybe...hehe

We started with FG, but all the Flash Gordon fans got confused.

I opened an XMen LE over a year after the tag on the back of the cabinet said that it was made and it still had a helluva lot of dimples. Even more so than my Tron which I opened a month after the born on date.

I can't read FGY without thinking "Faggy!"

But then I'm a raging homophobe.

It also would appear that ignorance of a rulesheet automatically means that the game is set up for novice players. But hey, it's pinball and that's what's so great is that ignorance is bliss. Unfortunately those people may miss out on how fun 5mil warp ramps are. Or how cool the story lines of going 3 deep into missions are. Or how cool the Klingon double jp is and it's call out. Or how difficult the Klingon super jp is to achieve. Or how awesome it is to hit a left orbit, warp, left orbit combo in destroy the drill. Or how fun the 3-way and 5-way combos are in Nero 1 and 2. Or how awesome the sound effects and call outs are in Klingon battle 3 and space jump 3. In any case, it's no secret that the level 1 missions are lacking in ST, so stop trying for kobayashi every game and maybe try focusing on other aspects of the pin that is enjoyable on the out of the box code. My 2 cents.

Your reply makes little to no sense.....which seems to be a pattern.

When I've commented on lights, I'm only commenting on that aspect. I've never said it makes the game play better, only it's an aesthetic that I really appreciate. But I guess you read what you want to.

To state STTNG flows better than Stern's Star Trek is laughable. It's a widebody for Christ's sake! And the cannons kill the flow. The damn thing was originally going to be "Under Siege ", which is why the cannons are there. Stern's Star Trek was designed from day one to be a Star Trek game.

Vengeance a "do-nothing toy"? The Borg ship is a do-nothing toy. First, it's the lame Lore/Borg ship instead of the iconic cube. Seconds, it acts as a scoop and shoots a ball out in one mode. The Vengeance acts as a scoop, shakes when hit in combat, rapidly returns your fire back at you, and collapse when defeated. There are three different Vengeance modes where this combat takes place, not just one like STTNG. The Vengeance is a vastly superior toy to your lame Lore/Borg ship.

the STTNG borg ship is totally lame. i'm a ST pro owner, and i'd say as it stands right now i'd go for MET. haven't played much of IM, but if it's like BSD as someone mentioned earlier, do not buy for your first pin. I had BSD earlier in my pin life and it was just too damn hard. Second time around with skills and experience it's a much better game.

Hmmm, I was under the impression that they evened out over time and couldn't tell any more after years and years?

Maybe on route - but HUO? Not sure if it gets enough play to "even out". The "first few months" dimples on my FGY are still there...they haven't evened out. I have a HUO NGG with a couple dimples...they're still there.

Chief who?

All pinball is repetitive, STTNG owners sometimes have a heavy duty bias towards STLE but who cares is just interesting to me. I agree code needs to be tweaked and I think it will be over time.

All this talk of playfield dimpling kinda makes me miss RGP, just saying. If you can't stand some dimples on your playfield, maybe Beanie Babies are your thing.

How do the cannons interrupt flow any worse than the dumb drop target lock on ST? That thing takes just as long or longer than loading and shooting the cannon on STTNG. Also, if you are constantly hitting the cannon on STTNG you are playing it wrong.

They flow about the same if you ask me. A properly set up STTNG plays really fast and the ramps ALL return to the inlanes, unlike ST where the warp ramp just goes to the upper flipper. Your argument doesn't make sense to me. Again I own a ST, I am not a hater.

Maybe I haven't played a sttng that is polished up but ST has it soundly beat in the speed dept. I do prefer TNG theme a little more.
The shots on ST are very satisfying, if the code comes through it will be solid top 20.. or higher. If left as is, I think more like top 50.

I spent some time worrying about what pin to get. Then I realized I would probably trade out whatever I got in a year or so anyway. Get what you want, enjoy it and if you get bored trade it. Unless you are rich, then keep them all and invite me over.

It's really hard to know if cure time has much to do with dimpling. There are people that I respect who say that it does, but I'm not convinced based on personal experience.

I had a sweet HUO NGG that had very few plays on it. I could see some dimples on it when I bought it. After a week of playing it, the number of noticeable dimples had increased a lot. The clear coat on that pin had cured for nearly two decades!

Save money ST PRO.

Well f*ck....*throws hands up* it's just a crapshoot!

I'll make a challenge. Grab a flashlight and try and find dimples on your METLE or MET Premium. I'll be waiting.

Well obviously, I wrote it in my post, lol. Like Jayhawkai said, nice work Sherlock (maybe you'll get that reference since you didn't get his Simpson one).

Yes, the modes are the same on all games, but the reason that IM gets away with it more is a) it's all about stacking everything and b) the game has much much shorter ball times. I feel like with ST I'm just playing one long mode after one long mode, and the games are pretty long overall since you get through most or all of the first round of modes most games (or at least I was). Any game I fire up with IM I know I have a chance for magic to happen in under 5 minutes, with ST it's going to be a long drawn out thing where I'm likely to get tired of playing the game before accomplishing anything.

I can't comment on ST's wizard mode since I've never made it there, but part of the genius of STTNG's ruleset is the artifact aspect...there is a huge reward for completing as many missions as possible, or holodeck, or reaching warp 8 again, etc. Then beside the missions there is the borg multiball, romulan, ferengi, and cardasian modes, warp 9 mode, holodeck, etc. The missions are also choreographed so it feels like you're making progress, maybe that's happening in ST as well but I sure don't get the same feeling that I am. The shots are much easier on ST as well. ST is definitely way faster and looks better, that's not even close honestly. The software on ST just needs work, that's the main aspect by far that's holding it back to me personally.

ST could totally turn things around. I didn't buy AC/DC initially because the software wasn't great to begin with...now that game is one of my favorites. So it could be just one major release from becoming a top 10 game.

Your argument doesn't make sense to me. How is the drop target any different from any other scoop on any other game? Same delay. Cannons are slower.

If you are in a mode on St, and the vengeance shot is lit and also lit for lock, and you hit that shot, it takes the game up to 5 seconds to recognize both shots then release the dribbling ball back to the playfield. STTNG preloads the balls on the up kickers for the cannons so as soon as you hit the shot the ball is loaded into the cannon and I usually have my shot away on the first pass, all of which might take 3 seconds. I have played both games hundreds of times at this point.

I didn't see that you mentioned you owned STTNG in the post, sorry. I have owned STTNG and loved it in fact looking for another one to complete my ST pin collection, picked up a 25th ann a few months back. Anyway I agree on all counts, except I find Stern ST modes to be fun, and in contrast to IM need a deep pin as well other wise both get stale quickly. I just dislike the whole ST isn't as good as STTNG they are both good and different which is what we want isn't it. Shouldn't be compared at all. I don't watch The Simpsons.

TNG flows better but it's got its own flaws.. biggest being imbalanced scoring (20B GC and 16B of it was artifacts) .. TNG was the first Ritchie game to encourage timing out modes, and that's still a valid strategy (after getting those precious artifacts), and the Romulan mode is broken and useless. Good game but not perfect. The new ST ship also fires back at you. It only does so in response to a direct shot (whereas the Borg fired unexpectedly), but new ST shoots much faster, so overall the toys are a wash.

I dialed down mode 1 times to 15 sec except for jump and directive. Makes the game much more fun, at least til they fix the code.

That's cute that you've played both games hundreds of times. You're very manly.

STTNG plays slower than Stern's Star Trek. Period.

Forget the talk about Metallica - the game just isn't very good, IMHO.

I own a STLE, and I like it, but I have to say I don't love it. It's fast and there is nice flow, but the rules just aren't very deep at this point. I keep hope that the Karl Urban update will fix that, but so far it's MIA. To be honest, if you like the layout of ST, Spider-Man is similar, but is an overall better game.

Iron Man took some time to grow on me, but I really like it. It's not fancy, and the toys look cheap, but the flow is great, and getting to high-scoring modes is very challenging. Right now, if I had to choose, I would choose Iron Man.

That said, for NIB right now, there is no better choice than a AC/DC Luci.

That sums it up perfectly for both IM and ST.

So you are talking about speed instead of flow now?

Yeah cAptain Kirk seems confused.

Now think I know why he keeps saying "that argument doesn't make sense to me."

From what I can tell, if you're looking for a game that's good for the family, probably ST overall since it's not as brutal. And most (almost all) casual players like kids or guests don't understand rules or stacking or whatnot just want to keep the ball in play and make ramps and loops and IMO the ST is probably better for that and IM probably better for the more seasoned players.

Met is not family friendly with curse words and also AcDc not family friendly but both are great games.

Currently, I'd give the nod to SM over ST but would hope the newer code on ST would close the gap.

My 4 year old disagrees. She loves it!

photo3.JPG

Since the new code of Star Trek came out can this debate be rehashed. IMVE or ST Pro?

The code changes are not major - some depth details yes but as far as I can tell fairly similar. I don't think anyone's opinions in this thread would be much different.

And yes, while it's nice to have some original speech in the game finally, it's kind of weird that Bones has suddenly taken such a hands-on role on the bridge of the Enterprise. I don't remember him being so enthusiastically involved in every aspect of engineering, manuevering, and everything else.

IM is very tough, unforgiving if you miss a couple of shots and is intense to play, but extremely addictive. ST is easier and deeper than IM with longer game times. ST is very fast with great flow.
Both have great universal appeal. My wife loves IM even.

You have FT, so do you want another tough game? Get IM. Want to play longer and deeper? Get ST.

Edit one more thought -
Also since I bought IM my WCS and T2 have become incredibly relaxing and fun to play! I like the balance of toughness with IM and fun with others. I have also put up new high scores on all my games since IM showed up. Even if you are so so at IM, like I am, it will make you play pinball better. I just got ST recently so I can't indulge you with stories as much on that one.

ST is really the safer choice, new codes will make it better and it is beautiful, but if you are brave and have the guts IM is one heck of a challenge you will fail at most of the time, but always some back for more.

I elected to go with the Star Trek Pro, ( hope to get it over the weekend) and have my wife's blessing. Actually I was considering ST Pro, SM or Addams Family. Decided the ST pro for now (may look at these others down the road). I have nothing like ST, we tried IM and wife hated it and I didn't like it as well as the other options. On IM I miss the upper right flipper and the ball magnets were not my cup of tea.

If I got TAF I would probably have to give up RS which we all like. ST reminds me a little of SM on some shots plus ST next gen which I have always liked. To mix it up I plan to play the modes level 1,2 & 3. I realize I will never beat the game. I have a Indy 500 doubt if I'll ever beat it and it's my favorite pin I own. In summary play them extensively and you decide, nice problem to have.

Sorry for the old thread revive but when this thread started I didn't own either....now I own both (ST Pro & IMVE). Also a buddy of mine has Met Pro and I've spent a fair amount of time on it as well.

Honestly I don't think you can really go wrong here. I think they are all great games. Gun to my head I would go IM>ST>Met. But I could certainly see arguments for any order (personal preferences).

I like fast difficult games and IM is the king of that hill. It really is pure adrenaline and it really does "fight back".......love it. That being said it is also the newest to me and that can still be weighing in on my order of preference.

ST - much deeper and great flow. Even though it got a code update since this thread started.....it still needs another one to bring out it's full potential.

Both ST and IM have great sound and great light shows.....shaker motor highly recommended for both.

The secret to IM is setting it up correctly. Little things like setting the Monger start to "hard" and disabling the back post can make a very big difference in how it plays.

With ST it's all in how you play it. There are so many ways to attack it and you really should have a plan on what you want to accomplish and how you want to go about it. 18 modes plus 3 wizard modes and various multiballs gives you tons of options.