(Topic ID: 217498)

Iron Maiden issues

By rvdv

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 9 months ago by Skinner
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#1351 5 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

Has anyone had the vertical back panel off a premium/LE playfield? If so, how difficult was it?
Rob

Not too difficult really.But taking the left ramp with it makes it easier.
Raise the pharos tomb gate first in the service menu and leave it open.
Makes life easier. 4 screws at the back of the board and 3 screws at the bottom of the playfield going vertically into the board hold it on.
Also remove it together as one with the left ramp.
Because of the pharos tomb gate it can be quite frustrating trying to remove it from that left ramp on its own.
When you put it back together it's easier to set it with the left ramp outside the game then drop it back onto the playfield.

Hope that helps

#1352 5 years ago
Quoted from Sutol:

Not too difficult really.But taking the left ramp with it makes it easier.
Raise the pharos tomb gate first in the service menu and leave it open.
Makes life easier. 4 screws at the back of the board and 3 screws at the bottom of the playfield going vertically into the board hold it on.
Also remove it together as one with the left ramp.
Because of the pharos tomb gate it can be quite frustrating trying to remove it from that left ramp on its own.
When you put it back together it's easier to set it with the left ramp outside the game then drop it back onto the playfield.
Hope that helps

Hmmm, I wanted to do it without removing that left ramp. I'm just trying to get at the GI which is a PITA in that corner.

Rob

#1353 5 years ago

Yes it is a PITA. And the bummer is it's the only one that doesn't screw in from underneath, they stapled it in place so you can't get to it from the back side.

#1354 5 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

Hmmm, I wanted to do it without removing that left ramp. I'm just trying to get at the GI which is a PITA in that corner.
Rob

It does sound worse than it is. I've had mine apart twice now and taking the left ramp off certainly made it a whole lot easier and quicker.

#1355 5 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Yeah, but then every time you clean the game it will be screwed up. I'd rather just keep it clean. I don't need to wax each time. I just give it a quick wipe down.
As for your lights, I'd test the voltage from the sockets to get a clear idea of what you're feeding the bulbs.

Unfortunately, I'm not an electrician and haven't used a multimeter, though I am willing to try. Though even if I did check/know the voltage...it wouldn't tell me why the ablazes would work in the backboard but not in the inlane slots? And...the descriptions for the ablazes on PBL have no indication of needing a particular voltage. They just say they should work on a modern stern.

Basically...the $.89 ablazes work fine in the inlane slots, just not the cheaper ones, though the cheaper ones work in the backboard. Neither LED version on PBL describes voltage requirements...

Anyway.....as an update for my plunger. I did go ahead and add a washer to underneath the guide wall. And....it totally worked. Though....I don't think my wall was torqued/twisted...but I could be wrong. It did move my guidewall 'up' (closer to the post behind it), which is what I needed since balls were moving faster (hitting the bottom post on the other side), which is fine (and could explain the success), and I'll just have to bend the guidewall down later when balls move slower as it gets a bit dirty. But....happy for now!

#1356 5 years ago
Quoted from Gogdog:

Unfortunately, I'm not an electrician and haven't used a multimeter, though I am willing to try. Though even if I did check/know the voltage...it wouldn't tell me why the ablazes would work in the backboard but not in the inlane slots? And...the descriptions for the ablazes on PBL have no indication of needing a particular voltage. They just say they should work on a modern stern.
Basically...the $.89 ablazes work fine in the inlane slots, just not the cheaper ones, though the cheaper ones work in the backboard. Neither LED version on PBL describes voltage requirements...

The reason I suggested the voltage check is to see if you have a problem with the board sending the incorrect voltage. Knowing how to use a meter is handy as it takes literally 20 seconds if the socket is available and powered.

If cheaper ones that run on the same voltage work fine, it sounds like an issue with the bulbs. Maybe they are physically different in size (the bottom bit) and the socket isn't connecting well?

Strange issue. Warm white sounds like the better choice for that GI zone anway!

#1357 5 years ago
Quoted from Gogdog:

Unfortunately, I'm not an electrician and haven't used a multimeter, though I am willing to try. Though even if I did check/know the voltage...it wouldn't tell me why the ablazes would work in the backboard but not in the inlane slots? And...the descriptions for the ablazes on PBL have no indication of needing a particular voltage. They just say they should work on a modern stern.
Basically...the $.89 ablazes work fine in the inlane slots, just not the cheaper ones, though the cheaper ones work in the backboard. Neither LED version on PBL describes voltage requirements...
Anyway.....as an update for my plunger. I did go ahead and add a washer to underneath the guide wall. And....it totally worked. Though....I don't think my wall was torqued/twisted...but I could be wrong. It did move my guidewall 'up' (closer to the post behind it), which is what I needed since balls were moving faster (hitting the bottom post on the other side), which is fine (and could explain the success), and I'll just have to bend the guidewall down later when balls move slower as it gets a bit dirty. But....happy for now!

Did you try turning them around? Some of the LEDs want specific polarity. Most don't care.

#1358 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Did you try turning them around? Some of the LEDs want specific polarity. Most don't care.

I mean....I put them in quite a few times so I'm sure at some point both directions were tried...but no, not specifically.

The factory ones have 'Stern 6.3VAC', and the ablazes are 'PB 6.3VDC', so...there is a DC/AC difference though on the PBL site it makes no distinction between the two, and the ablazes still work on the backboard.

I'll just call PBL tomorrow and see if they have an answer.

#1359 5 years ago
Quoted from Gogdog:

I mean....I put them in quite a few times so I'm sure at some point both directions were tried...but no, not specifically.
The factory ones have 'Stern 6.3VAC', and the ablazes are 'PB 6.3VDC', so...there is a DC/AC difference though on the PBL site it makes no distinction between the two, and the ablazes still work on the backboard.
I'll just call PBL tomorrow and see if they have an answer.

Ok, turning them around definitely didn't work. PinballLife said that most likely the wiring in IMDN was reversed, the cheap LEDs do not have a bridge rectifier in them, so they only work in 1 direction. He said I could swap the wires on the socket or put in LEDs that have a bridge rectifier in them like the ablaze ghost premiums. Of course...if they only work in 1 direction, I'm not sure why just turning them around to the other direction didn't work...but...whatever.

I'm not going to start messing with swapping the wires under the playfield just to get the cheap LEDs to work, so fortunately PBL said I could just return them for a refund and get new the premiums shipped. (as per their LED guarantee...if they don't work, I can get them swapped out).

#1360 5 years ago

For those still having problems with the Sarcophagus gate not opening ("Load Ramp" switch #42).

Here is my fix, which was caused by a clear plastic riser installed by Stern (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-maiden-sarcophagus#post-4685240). Curious if other folks have this riser installed...

snaroff

#1361 5 years ago

Originally auto launch was fine (make loop easy) for about 30 minutes. Then it would get lazy after the game warmed up.

After checking mech a finding all appeared to be okay, my distributor send me a new launch coil.

I replace the coil and sleeve and its worse its crap even when cold now.
Coil at factory default 255 Max power.

Ball is resting on prongs fine.
Mech appears good.

The game sucks when ball wont make loop !

Any ideas please guys ?

#1362 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

Originally auto launch was fine (make loop easy) for about 30 minutes. Then it would get lazy after the game warmed up.
After checking mech a finding all appeared to be okay, my distributor send me a new launch coil.
I replace the coil and sleeve and its worse its crap even when cold now.
Coil at factory default 255 Max power.
Ball is resting on prongs fine.
Mech appears good.
The game sucks when ball wont make loop !
Any ideas please guys ?

So if you manually work the plunger on the launch coil (with the power off - thanks, Spike2!), does it move freely?

If it does move freely, what does the power at the coil measure (power on) with a ranging multimeter when it launches a ball?

#1363 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

So if you manually work the plunger on the launch coil (with the power off - thanks, Spike2!), does it move freely?
If it does move freely, what does the power at the coil measure (power on) with a ranging multimeter when it launches a ball?

Thanks Vic.

Yep complete plunger mech works freely.
300mv drop on launch 48v drops to 47.7v.

Did the washer mod even though there is no issue with trajectory, re-checked prongs ok
Manual plunge is controllable and acceptable.

Auto plunge just doesn't have the balls to make the loop, I'm gonna put the old coil back in and see if it goes back to the old ways of being fine for 1/2 hr before fading.

Yes there is a shooter lane protector, not sure how this could impede launch power ?

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#1364 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

Thanks Vic.
Yep complete plunger mech works freely.
300mv drop on launch 48v drops to 47.7v.
Did the washer mod even though there is no issue with trajectory, re-checked prongs ok
Manual plunge is controllable and acceptable.
Auto plunge just doesn't have the balls to make the loop, I'm gonna put the old coil back in and see if it goes back to the old ways of being fine for 1/2 hr before fading.
Yes there is a shooter lane protector, not sure how this could impede launch power ? [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Set your multimeter to ohms and check the resistance of the new coil. Maybe it's just a bad coil?

#1365 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

Originally auto launch was fine (make loop easy) for about 30 minutes. Then it would get lazy after the game warmed up.
After checking mech a finding all appeared to be okay, my distributor send me a new launch coil.
I replace the coil and sleeve and its worse its crap even when cold now.
Coil at factory default 255 Max power.
Ball is resting on prongs fine.
Mech appears good.
The game sucks when ball wont make loop !
Any ideas please guys ?

Well, that is some feeble auto plunge - it should blast round that loop.

100% faulty but wonder why?

Cold solder joint somewhere?

#1366 5 years ago

I checked impedance of coils, both at 4 ohms.

Put the old coil back in and it will make loop now,,,, only just at times. funny that most times it makes the drop for inner left loop to upper left flipper for skill shot. lol
Manual launch, orange spring still fine.

Narrowed gap on launch bracket prongs a little has helped, prongs look a little ordinary....had a great test game made GC... got Madness mode for the first time, Wow ! game lasted about 25 minutes and launch did not fade remained lazy though

Would really like to get a stronger auto launch, as voltage is good I'm thinking of trying another coil ?

Factory Coil is 23 800 any suggestion for stronger replacement ? I will request a new main bracket.

Thanks,
Ando

20181115_140050 (resized).jpg20181115_140050 (resized).jpgCapture (resized).JPGCapture (resized).JPG
#1367 5 years ago

Presume you checked the coil stop? Maybe broken or missing?

#1368 5 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Presume you checked the coil stop? Maybe broken or missing?

Thanks for suggestion, yep stop appears to be fine.

#1369 5 years ago

Really strange.

Looks a simple mech really.

2 pics - plunger in and out.

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#1370 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

I checked impedance of coils, both at 4 ohms.
Put the old coil back in and it will make loop now,,,, only just at times. funny that most times it makes the drop for inner left loop to upper left flipper for skill shot. lol
Manual launch, orange spring still fine.
Narrowed gap on launch bracket prongs a little has helped, prongs look a little ordinary....had a great test game made GC... got Madness mode for the first time, Wow ! game lasted about 25 minutes and launch did not fade remained lazy though
Would really like to get a stronger auto launch, as voltage is good I'm thinking of trying another coil ?
Factory Coil is 23 800 any suggestion for stronger replacement ? I will request a new main bracket.
Thanks,
Ando[quoted image][quoted image]

Make sure the ball isn't hitting the tip of the upper right flipper as it launches.

Rob

#1371 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

Thanks for suggestion, yep stop appears to be fine.

Maybe a slow-mo phone video of the launch would help. Have you made one?

#1372 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

I checked impedance of coils, both at 4 ohms.
Put the old coil back in and it will make loop now,,,, only just at times. funny that most times it makes the drop for inner left loop to upper left flipper for skill shot. lol
Manual launch, orange spring still fine.
Narrowed gap on launch bracket prongs a little has helped, prongs look a little ordinary....had a great test game made GC... got Madness mode for the first time, Wow ! game lasted about 25 minutes and launch did not fade remained lazy though
Would really like to get a stronger auto launch, as voltage is good I'm thinking of trying another coil ?
Factory Coil is 23 800 any suggestion for stronger replacement ? I will request a new main bracket.
Thanks,
Ando[quoted image][quoted image]

Have you also pushed the auto plunger all the way forward RA77 and made sure that the prongs are touching the ball in that position also?

#1373 5 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Have you also pushed the auto plunger all the way forward RA77 and made sure that the prongs are touching the ball in that position also?

Yes, Thanks.

The manual plunge tip was pushing the ball about a mm off the prongs, I added an extra washer on the plunger rod to stop this but it made no difference.

Slow

Normal

#1374 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

Yes, Thanks.
The manual plunge tip was pushing the ball about a mm off the prongs, I added an extra washer on the plunger rod to stop this but it made no difference.
Slow
Normal

Dunno. Nothing jumps out at me as abnormal unless there's friction on the launch assembly that chews up some of the energy, which we wouldn't be able to see. I'd see if you can get a launch assembly swap. I'm out of ideas.

#1375 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

Yes, Thanks.
The manual plunge tip was pushing the ball about a mm off the prongs, I added an extra washer on the plunger rod to stop this but it made no difference.
Slow
Normal

So basically your problem is that your auto plunger just isnt striking the ball with enough power to make the ball go up into the loop right? The only questions that come to mind at first is, what is the incline of your playfield and is the ball rattleing around in the shooter lane after it launches and slowing the ball down? Also did it do this before you installed the cliffy? I know that shouldn't matter but sometimes the shooter lane cliffys really mess with your auto plunge.

#1376 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

Yes, Thanks.
The manual plunge tip was pushing the ball about a mm off the prongs, I added an extra washer on the plunger rod to stop this but it made no difference.
Slow
Normal

Here's the alignment of mine. The plunger tip and prongs touch the ball at the same time. I did re-align the shooter rod and I also slightly tweaked the shooter lane exit ball guide. It doesn't take much to throw things off, that's for sure!

20181115_214421 (resized).jpg20181115_214421 (resized).jpg

#1377 5 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

So basically your problem is that your auto plunger just isnt striking the ball with enough power to make the ball go up into the loop right? The only questions that come to mind at first is, what is the incline of your playfield and is the ball rattleing around in the shooter lane after it launches and slowing the ball down? Also did it do this before you installed the cliffy? I know that shouldn't matter but sometimes the shooter lane cliffys really mess with your auto plunge.

I can confirm that. Shooter lane cliffy caused so many problems on Metallica I had to remove it.

#1378 5 years ago
Quoted from MJW:

I can confirm that. Shooter lane cliffy caused so many problems on Metallica I had to remove it.

It had to have been installed wrong. It's so thin I can't imagine how it can interfere if properly installed. Did you use clamps when installing like you're supposed to?

#1379 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

It had to have been installed wrong. It's so thin I can't imagine how it can interfere if properly installed. Did you use clamps when installing like you're supposed to?

Didn’t know you had to use clamps. Missed that. Installed them in other games with no issues....

#1380 5 years ago
Quoted from MJW:

Didn’t know you had to use clamps. Missed that. Installed them in other games with no issues....

Yes, you need to clamp the spring steel one for the outside edge of the shooter lane before you tighten the screw(s) on the outer rail or it will be non-stop problems over time.

#1381 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Yes, you need to clamp the spring steel one for the outside edge of the shooter lane before you tighten the screw(s) on the outer rail or it will be non-stop problems over time.

Well that explains it. Never knew that.

#1382 5 years ago
Quoted from MJW:

Well that explains it. Never knew that.

Cliff really needs to include a little piece of paper with the kits that says this. Most people I know learned the hard way.

#1383 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Cliff really needs to include a little piece of paper with the kits that says this. Most people I know learned the hard way.

Yeah I don’t see it on his sites install instructions.

#1384 5 years ago
Quoted from MJW:

Yeah I don’t see it on his sites install instructions.

Most of the youtube videos have it right. Here's one that includes the clamping step:

#1385 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Yes, you need to clamp the spring steel one for the outside edge of the shooter lane before you tighten the screw(s) on the outer rail or it will be non-stop problems over time.

Why does it cause problems Vireland if you dont clamp it?

#1386 5 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Why does it cause problems Vireland if you dont clamp it?

Because it moves around over time or still has a slight angle on it that affects the ball rest in the shooter lane.

#1387 5 years ago

Wish I would have known that. Mine kept moving on GOTG Pro, so I ended up drilling a second hole and putting another screw in to hold it in place

#1388 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Because it moves around over time or still has a slight angle on it that affects the ball rest in the shooter lane.

Hmm....I figured the rail smashed it down when you tightened it. Thanks for the tip!

#1389 5 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Hmm....I figured the rail smashed it down when you tightened it. Thanks for the tip!

Yeah, the action of screwing the screw in without a clamp causes it not to set right.

#1390 5 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Well, that is some feeble auto plunge - it should blast round that loop.
100% faulty but wonder why?
Cold solder joint somewhere?

.

#1391 5 years ago
Quoted from RA77:

Yes, Thanks.
The manual plunge tip was pushing the ball about a mm off the prongs, I added an extra washer on the plunger rod to stop this but it made no difference.
Slow
Normal

Looks like the plunger is dragging in the video.

There is a very slight hesitation half way thru the stroke, could be a bad coil sleeve.

Maybe its firing crooked. Get a replacement mech or examine yours for looseness or binding when actuated.

If it fires at a very slight angle internally, it will rob all the power from it.

If all else fails, un-wind a couple rows of wire from the coil to make it more powerful. "Speed Mod" etc.

#1392 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Looks like the plunger is dragging in the video.
There is a very slight hesitation half way thru the stroke, could be a bad coil sleeve.
Maybe its firing crooked. Get a replacement mech or examine yours for looseness or binding when actuated.
If it fires at a very slight angle internally, it will rob all the power from it.
If all else fails, un-wind a couple rows of wire from the coil to make it more powerful. "Speed Mod" etc.

Thanks, Yep I'm going to request new mech.
I didn't like the look of the look of the kicker arm, It was kinda bent before I got to it.
Mech moves freely, no binding at all

Both coil and sleeve were replaced and seemed to have less power, back to original coil now and its a little better.
I may try modifying 1 of the coils.
I would like to find out what the actual cause is. Will let you guys know what solution is.

Appreciate all the feedback from all trying to help

Many thanks

Cheers,
Ando

#1393 5 years ago
Quoted from MJW:

I can confirm that. Shooter lane cliffy caused so many problems on Metallica I had to remove it.

I also removed them from my metallica. Couldn't skill shot anymore with them

#1394 5 years ago
Quoted from KnockerPTSD:

I also removed them from my metallica. Couldn't skill shot anymore with them

Did you use a clamp when installing them?

#1395 5 years ago

An X target insert light is out on my Iron Maiden (super jackpot). Just want to make sure that getting a new single led board will fix it? Should I contact stern to see if they will send me one?

#1396 5 years ago
Quoted from ktrain315:

An X target insert light is out on my Iron Maiden (super jackpot). Just want to make sure that getting a new single led board will fix it? Should I contact stern to see if they will send me one?

Depends on which one. I know some of them are integrated with other lights on a multi-light board. The left loop jackpot ones are single boards, but the X on the target skill shot is on the same board as the Eddie cards. I'd try wiggling connectors and see if it's a loose connection, first.

#1397 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Depends on which one. I know some of them are integrated with other lights on a multi-light board. The left loop jackpot ones are single boards, but the X on the target skill shot is on the same board as the Eddie cards. I'd try wiggling connectors and see if it's a loose connection, first.

It’s definitely a single led board, ill try jiggling

#1398 5 years ago

Don't modify coils. Having anything except the correct coil is not fixing the issue, and probably won't work anyway.

When my game was having issues, the ball was too hitting the top part of the rail too far to the left, you want the ball closer to the right so it comes into contact with the rail right at the start of the bend. If the ball hits the rail after the bend, it will take momentum off.

Just as a test, bend the left and right side of of the auto plunge forks both left a little bit. unfortunately, with he angle of your video, you don't show where the ball comes into contact with the top of the guide very well so I'm not sure if this will work or not, but since it seems things are pretty bad maybe it's worth a try.

Also, don't forget about the ball hitting the rail too hard. Lowering the power of the coil in the menu can help, it can change where the ball hits the guide, which can actually add more "power". When My games was close, I started playing with the power and it's down about 20 from 255 and makes it around every time.

Quoted from RA77:

I may try modifying 1 of the coils.

#1399 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Don't modify coils. Having anything except the correct coil is not fixing the issue, and probably won't work anyway.
When my game was having issues, the ball was too hitting the top part of the rail too far to the left, you want the ball closer to the right so it comes into contact with the rail right at the start of the bend. If the ball hits the rail after the bend, it will take momentum off.
Just as a test, bend the left and right side of of the auto plunge forks both left a little bit. unfortunately, with he angle of your video, you don't show where the ball comes into contact with the top of the guide very well so I'm not sure if this will work or not, but since it seems things are pretty bad maybe it's worth a try.
Also, don't forget about the ball hitting the rail too hard. Lowering the power of the coil in the menu can help, it can change where the ball hits the guide, which can actually add more "power". When My games was close, I started playing with the power and it's down about 20 from 255 and makes it around every time.

Wanna hear something weird? Ive had my game auto plunging with 100% accuracy for a long time now and i got it that way by bending the prongs on the auto plunger.

2 nights ago i raised the playfield to put on a mod and i didn't even mess with the auto plunger at all, and now my game is not auto plunging 100% anymore lol. There's an explanation for everything but this sure has me scratching my head here.

#1400 5 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Wanna hear something weird? Ive had my game auto plunging with 100% accuracy for a long time now and i got it that way by bending the prongs on the auto plunger.
2 nights ago i raised the playfield to put on a mod and i didn't even mess with the auto plunger at all, and now my game is not auto plunging 100% anymore lol. There's an explanation for everything but this sure has me scratching my head here.

See if shifting the PF to the left or right fixes the issue. I had a BH that would shift and go out of whack. I put a screw in one of the hook slots so the PF had to sit in the same exact place each time.

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