We have sold and delivered thousands of sheets of INVISIGLASS TM all over the world.

Our information is that the other glass is Schott Glass and the manufacturer of it firmly states that it is only to be used in a vertical application, not horizontally. We have written proof of that from Schott in Germany.

Roman's post may stem from him telling me to "go make your own" after I tried to have him supply us with his glass, so we did.

His is better, ours is better, you decide. Either way we are using it on our LE games and our Anniversary game and it's available for sale, in stock ready to ship.

Live and let live is what we say. Go have fun and buy what you want from whoever you want to buy it from.

I have customers with both the PDI glass and Invisiglass and I see a significant difference in the products ,with the main 2 being these;

With the PDI glass it really truly looks like there is no glass in the machine and there is almost zero glare at all most angles (and I am 6' 3") The only time the illusion was ruined was when a neon light was on the wall right above the machine. To those that have never "seen" a piece of this glass, you really have to see it in person to appreciate how invisible it really is.

The Invisiglass however looks like a piece of glass on the game, less glare than a normal piece of glass, but I can always tell it's there. Also another noticeable feature on the Invisiglass is that any fingerprints appear as a rainbowish smear on the glass (like oil on water) and I don't see that occurring on the PDI glass.

I have no stake in either product and just wanted to post my observations as I get to go into many peoples game rooms I get to see tons of different games and mods in all sorts of different lighting.

+ 1 I've also both (and no stake in either product) and that's exactly my experience. Invisiglass is thinner than PDI, but you notice that there's a glass. + PDI is easier to clean.

Agree with Kris and Wizzard. I have both, side by side. The viewing angle in the PDI glass is superior, especially side-to-side. Also the PDI glass "feels" like normal glass, where as the Invisiglass has some resistance to it when cleaning. Invisiglass is definitely more prone to finger prints, and they're harder to remove than regular or PDI glass. As such, I can't confirm but I believe the Invisiglass is ultra-clear glass with an anti-glare tint where-as Roman's glass has the anti-glare technology formed right into the glass itself.

Both products are good choices though for making those playfields POP, and one is generally cheaper than the other. So it's up to you as the consumer to decide for yourselves.

We are discussing and comparing the differences between the two products and not the sold quantities.

It isn't.

Eli, a glass manufacturer and a "good friend" of yours around the block told you when we were sitting together, that you won't find that quality (like my glass/PDI glass) in the US. I told you the same and that you can try to find a source in the US on your own. Something you couldn't accept. My offer enabled you to add more value to your game, but you weren't allowed to sell the glass separately due to my agreement with PDI.
You didn't accept my offer and now you blame me ? Saving money is equal to making more money. That's business isn't it ?
What happened with your $200 glass ?
For what I've seen now, it would be a reasonable price.
(16:30)

Quality has it's price, you should know that by now.
I agree, that the customer/market has to decide if they have an objective base on how to do that.
The comparison pics from your website are misleading and suggestive.
It would be highly appreciated if you would provide facts without using marketing techniques.
With your WOZ, you're setting new standards no doubt, with the glass not.
Being in your position I'd complain and talk to my supplier. They can do better, you can do better.

Bob's Ultimate Glass is in your neighborhood, do you have any experience with it? It is a lot cheaper, I wouldn't expect it to be in their class--just wondering if it is significantly clearer than regular glass.

All I know is Schott makes nice glass decanters for Bosch and Krupps coffee makers.

His glass is white Starfire glass. It has no green tint and is very clear but it does not have any anti-glare properties. It has a nice added touch that the glass is 1/4" thick and the edges are bevel cut to get them down to 3/16" to fit into the channels, so the sides have a jeweled faceted look.

Cool, thanks for the info, I just may try a sheet next time I'm out that way with a truck.

I have 2 sheets from Bob...one for standard, one widebody.....beautiful stuff ( especially the beveled edges) but once I tried a sheet of PDI, that was it.......Bob is a great guy, however, and the price is much less.....

I have both side by side. Both work well but PDI is better. More invisible and invisiglass shows a bit more reflection.

When I bought one sheet of invisiglass I had to buy (4) more for my other games. This stuff works and my other games look like crap without it. PDI vs Invisiglass? I would not be able to make a decision unless I had them side by side in the same light conditions.

Planetary should make invisiglass on their remake games available as an option in the game from the manufacturer. It would save all of us a ton of money on shipping it later and would probably be cheaper than buying a single sheet of it at a show anyway.

If they were the same price at a show to get around the shipping costs I would buy PDI for one machine so that I could equally compare it to invisiglass under the same light. Hopefully some PDI will be selling at the Michigan Expo in the spring. Shipping prices on this stuff chase many of us away from it, but that is understandable.

+1

I have Invisiglass on several machines and am very pleased with it. Your video is pretty convincing though. If you ever have a BOGO PDI glass sale like Jack has for his Invisiglass let me know. I'd buy a few!

Jack only had a BOGO sale *once* and that was when he got flack for the "large" JJP logo that was on the first batch. JJP has had additional sales since then, but none of them have been BOGO.

Somebody ought to PM Planetary about making it an option. He is working along with JJP on MMR anyhow so why not? It sure beats paying top dollar for it and paying the shipping, as well as adding another piece of brand new $35 glass to the unused pile that I keep tripping over until I sell a game.

I'd buy several sheets of either glass if and when they go on sale again.

*Once* is enough if you are paying attention, I backed up the truck, so to speak, and outfitted all my modern pins. I wish now I had gotten 2X as many. The secondary sale was BOGO 1/2 off I think, still too much for glass no matter how nice it (doesn't) look. I'm a buyer again in the < $200 sheet range.

I really don't even know what that means. Who wasn't paying attention? I'm the one that mentioned it. I took advantage of that sale. So what is your point?

How is "once is enough" if they never do it again and someone else is looking to buy some?

I wouldn't say either are any good and both are equally shitty. for those that think this stuff work the way it was intended, you will be very disappointed as I was. Works good for getting rid of room lighting from a ceiling. Shitty at removing the glare from the stuff you actually give a shit about when playing (backglass and DMD glare). And the shorter you are, the shittier it works.

Not seeing is believing. I wonder if this post is actionable?

There is no room for BOGO over here in Europe. My selling price for individuals (today) is $178 without VAT for standard sizes.

I apologize for my ignorance, but what is "VAT"......assuming shipping?....if not crazy to the US, I'm buying today!!!

Value Added Tax or Local Sales Tax in the US.

So if I want to buy @ $178.00 a sheet, do I order straight through you? I've gotten it in the past straight from PDI ( for ALOT more money)......

I really feel sorry that I have to disappoint the interested from the US, that I won't ship directly due to my agreement with PDI.
I'm sure that Joey will offer bulk discounts if you talk to him.

I have to add, that companies who are building games can buy the glass for their production, but not for resale.
Stern - no interest
JJP - has his own
PPS - open
IPB - has his own
Heighway Pinball - open

I am not glass expert but isn't Invisiglass just Robax IRD glass? or is it something else?

because the DMD and backglass glare is the sole reason it was even invented in the first place. And failed miserably, yet still stupidly priced.

Who told you so ?

Hey - I'm building my own game...
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-trek-mirror-universe-pinball
Can I get some sheets for my production?

Great work, my honest respect.
Where are your games for the others ?

Due to repetitive questions regarding the difference between a regular pinball glass and a low iron glass (Starfire, Optiwhite, Ultraclear a.s.o.) I have added two more graphs to the existing comparison.
This should help to understand that there is NO VISIBLE DIFFERENCE FOR THE HUMAN EYE in regard of glare (reflection) between white/clear glass and green/regular glass @ 5mm or 3/16".
http://networkbrokers.de/pbglass.jpg
This video shows the/no difference.

(regular: left; white: right)

RGP like 5 years ago when it was being invented for the first time.

Neo,

the anti reflective coating technology is existing for many years. There are many different companies
around the globe and many different applications to consider.
Nobody had to reinvent the wheel. Only the pinball application was new.
Finding a reliable manufacturer who knows and understands their business was the highest hurdle to take.
To understand and to accept optical laws and physics is another point.
Reading your comments and statements gives me the impression that you had a very high product expectation when buying the glass. It should be invisible, no reflections at all in all possible light conditions and viewing angles.
Here we have the conflict. It seems that you like to play in darkened rooms and that your frustration is growing the
more people try to convince you how good it looks to them at their homes.
My suggestion is, that you install your glass in a game with daylight from the sides or artificial light to find out how
it performs here.
As you stated already, the difference between a regular sheet and an anti reflective one in dark rooms is barely noticeable.
Ask questions if you have any, but don't complain if you're riding a racing car in rough terrain.
Every product has its pros and cons and you're the unlucky winner who found a con due to opto-physical laws.

We are close to bringing a new glass to the market. We tried to work with PDI and due to it over pricing and price brakes based on volume and was told we could only sell at trade shows. The volume buy wasn't enough to matter, We could have never save a dollar to a value to pass along, So we jumped off that race track. We decided to bring our own to the market. We tried work with MagicJumpi directly but only wants deal with PDI to carry his glass. So, hold tight we are about to give PDI glass a run for it's money. It has taken us a year, but we are in the works to get things ready to go. We have bought allot of PDI glass and it's great but WAY OVER PRICED! Yes, we know what it cost to put on a boat...FYI it will be manufactured right here in the US by passing the boats and long waits.

Looking forward to a fair priced option.

Alternatives in anti reflective glass are always a good choice to consider, especially for the US market.
Please provide comparison pics or videos to those who are interested in your product.
This helps the consumer to make a decision based on unbiased information.

We will when it's ready. We will have a video of all 3 glass options. Also we will work and play with others when others want to price people out. We were told by your US vendor they only sell to rich people, hum that's not good business.

MagicJumpi: at what AOI are your measurements taken? Can you do a 0˚ vs. expected viewing angle comparison?

I don't think that the measurements were made via an AOI system, but I'll let you know tomorrow.
Could you explain, what kind of new findings you're expecting from your 0º vs x comparison ?

How were the reflectance measurements made, then? (AOI is angle of incidence, by the way.)

I'd expect a shift in the reflectivity curve with angle, as well as a change in performance. This is entirely typical of dielectric coatings, but as I'm not privy to the details of these coatings I'm not sure how big the effect will be. For the same reason, if the measurements for the various glasses were not made at the same angle, they're not comparable.

The performance at 0˚ (normal incidence, i.e. looking at the glass straight one) and at an angle are often quite different. As pinball glass isn't used at normal incidence. . . .

Physics....

http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/glass/index.html

Nobody posted this yet?

Very interesting and there is a big difference.

AOI (Automatic Optical Inspection) is used in my industry when we talk about PCBs.
Thank you for the missing link.
All sheets we have tested were tested @ 0º and the wavelength changed over the full
visible spectrum, but not the angle. Haven't you recognized the comparison video on
page 3 ?
Please feel free to ask.

Its useless to argue with Neo, he knows everything and is more then williing to let us all know how we should spend our money.

Is invisiglass thinner than normal pin glass? I put some in a game that has a big ass sub woofer in the cabinet and the glass rattles ALOT more than before.

I'm not sure how Invisiglass compares to normal glass in terms of thickness, but it definitely seems like it's thinner than PDI glass. I had a piece of PDI glass in my IM. Even with a sub and shaker installed in the game, the glass never rattled at all.