(Topic ID: 114711)

Interesting Review on WOZ 75th LE


By MiamiRedSkin

5 years ago



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There are 679 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 14.
14
#1 5 years ago

I have been bouncing around the idea of buying a WOZ 2nd hand for some time and just ran across this review while looking for videos. You will probably find similar stories with Stern, no question about it, but it is definitely interesting hearing a normal guy's take on the issues he faced with his new WOZ.

#2 5 years ago

I really hope that guy meant he traded the WOZ for a Star Trek LE and not a Premium...and even that would have been terrible. He said he paid $9000 and he traded the WOZ Ruby Red and got a Star Trek Premium and $300. I don't know what's worse, a busted $9000 WOZ Ruby Red or an $8700 ST Premium. Ouch all around.

#3 5 years ago

Thanks for posting that. I was actually thinking about buying a WOZ. After this video though...not anymore. Customer service is #1 in my book. I'll go back to a restaurant with mediocre food, as long as the customer service is excellent. Sounds like Jack has a different set of values. Bummer for this owner. I would have lost my kind if Jack went off on me after spending that cash on a non working game. Shame on Jack.

Oh, and for JJP to not cover labor.....BAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Good one! Who the hell could buy a pin from a company like that?

#4 5 years ago

hmm, I had a similar story involving contact with JJ

15
#5 5 years ago

Couldn't call tech support on the Christmas holiday ?

Why not ? I was there taking care of people.

I wish he would have called sooner. Some of the problems he had started after he was in there for five hours checking wires.

LTG : ?

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

Oh, and for JJP to not cover labor

His first call to have a tech come out should have been to the distributor he bought the game from.

LTG : )

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Couldn't call tech support on the Christmas holiday ?
Why not ? I was there taking care of people.
I wish he would have called sooner. Some of the problems he had started after he was in there for five hours checking wires.
LTG : ?

Hmmm.... That's interesting. Sometimes I forget there is always 3 sides to a story. I'm sure you were more than helpful like he said LTG, but does JJP really not pay labor for service calls on a brand new machine?

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Couldn't call tech support on the Christmas holiday ?
Why not ? I was there taking care of people.
I wish he would have called sooner. Some of the problems he had started after he was in there for five hours checking wires.
LTG : ?

And I was working as well. My phone rings on Christmas

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

His first call to have a tech come out should have been to the distributor he bought the game from.
LTG : )

So is it up to the distributed to pay labor?

#10 5 years ago

He did say he spoke with you and you were very helpful, and I have no doubt you were as always.

Quoted from LTG:

Couldn't call tech support on the Christmas holiday ?
Why not ? I was there taking care of people.
I wish he would have called sooner. Some of the problems he had started after he was in there for five hours checking wires.
LTG : ?

#11 5 years ago

He should post this on Pinside on his own... and really get the flames going!

#12 5 years ago

Having said that.. Lloyd helped me out on several occasions in the beginning... and I've personally spoken with Jersey Jack and JJP employees.... that was not my experience last year... hopefully that hasn't changed

#13 5 years ago

Lloyd did advertise on Pinside that he would be manning the phones on Christmas. I thought that was awesome. And I'm not sure I buy this guy jiggling wires for 5 hours. (And why does his machine look like it's working perfectly on the video???)

#14 5 years ago

I have to jump in here from a bias opinion . I'm a tech in central fl not a distributor and I like sterns and jj pins as well as willams ,bally etc... I have no dog in this hunt ,but I've recently had some issues with a new standard Woz and the guys at JJP ( Lloyd and Ken ) where fast to respond and solved my problem quickly . All of this was on New Years eve and New Year Day. Just saying . Everything was a great experience for me . just saying

#15 5 years ago

I would have traded him my STLE for his WOZRRLE

#16 5 years ago

Having a $400 game that keeps breaking is so frustrating. I can't imagine sinking $9k into a brand new machine and having so many issues. I'd vomit.

I've seen/heard enough horror stories to make an objective opinion regarding these machines though. I hope everyone else has better luck with their's though.

#17 5 years ago

Interesting story.. As above, 3 sides to any story..

I've had similar issues with my WOZ as follows: (less than one month old)

Constant ticking up under the castle mini playfield
Monkey magnet not dropping the ball correctly
What looks like a linux boot up process displaying through the crystal ball
Rainbow lights stuck on white
No sound on boot up and during game play
No place like home starting by itself
And.. No boot on power up

Most times I'll get a run of good games out of the machine - but to service these issues who am I going to call..? Brisbane Australia is fairly remote in the scheme of things..!

I hope the issues will iron themselves out over time

Love the machine BTW.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

So is it up to the distributed to pay labor?

The JJP warranty is parts not labor. ( as is other pinball manufacturers )

Some distributors provide a service call or extended warranty.

There have been some occasions where JJP may pay for a tech's visit to correct a factory defect. That decision would be higher up the ladder though, I have no say in it.

LTG : )

#19 5 years ago

Every single one of these problems with the exception of a faulty light board can easily be diagnosed in a 10 minute call and the boot issues are due to a loose sata connection. It's obvious though the guy is new to pinball in general. I could have fixed these problems sans the light board which would have been shipped in a few mins.

Shame.

P.S. That game likely got seriously beaten in shipping. So much so that it knocked off a pair from a coil and knocked locking sata cables loose.

#20 5 years ago

His problem wasn't with Lloyd or the other tech support guy. He even said that he was hoping to get it all sorted out. He said that the real issue and "the turning point" was with the way Jack handled the situation.

#21 5 years ago

I watched the video and feel he was a little dramatic about some of the lesser problems. Every single NIB game I've had in the past 4 years has had issues. I have had many NIB games too. My second WOZ has been flawless since I opened it this past summer. Just saying' My Le I had first and sold had a two issues and they were corrected pretty swiftly by JJP.

12
#22 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

The JJP warranty is parts not labor. ( as is other pinball manufacturers )
Some distributors provide a service call or extended warranty.
There have been some occasions where JJP may pay for a tech's visit to correct a factory defect. That decision would be higher up the ladder though, I have no say in it.
LTG : )

Lloyd- By all accounts, you're the nicest guy and the most helpful guy in the pinball tech arena. But let's not forget-- This guy paid 9K. 9K! I think a little more accommodation is appropriate and a little less condescension from the man who made it.

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

(And why does his machine look like it's working perfectly on the video???)

LEDs look locked from W1 maybe on up the right side. Could be a problem with a LED board or unplugging and replugging the power cables with the game on. You can move the data harnesses with power on, not a good idea power connectors. Which he was checking ?

Lockdown bar should be an easy fix. Adjust the screws on top of the receiver, or loosen the receiver, lock the lockdown bar on, and tighten them.

LTG : )

25
#24 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

It's obvious though the guy is new to pinball in general.

Irrelevant. Shouldn't matter if it's his first or 50th pin. Also, he has 5 other pins in the video. How new could he possibly be?

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from usandthem:

I think a little more accommodation is appropriate and a little less condescension from the man who made it.

I agree. But I wasn't privy to the conversation between the customer and Jack.

I'm not saying either was right or wrong. I just don't know.

Anyone, including customers, can bring out the worst in a situation.

LTG : )

-25
#26 5 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Irrelevant. Shouldn't matter if it's his first or 50th pin. Also, he has 5 other pins in the video. How new could he possibly be?

Considering he can't pronounce the word solder or own a soldering iron or know how to adjust a lockdown bar? I'd say VERY new.

#27 5 years ago

Well, with the two or three minor issues I had since delivery in August 2013, Alex and Lloyd have been awesome. Two light boards and I screwed up a delta update.

Top notch service as far as I'm concerned.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:

hopefully that hasn't changed

It's been improving.

Frank Becker was hired, he now has my old service extension 222. My direct number is on the website.

I'm still there. As is Alex, Ken, Eric, Steve.

Everybody working hard to make sure you get the most out of your WOZ.

LTG : )

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Top notch service as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you for that.

Sadly, not everybody can be pleased.

But we try hard.

LTG : )

24
#30 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

Considering he can't pronounce the word solder or own a soldering iron or know how to adjust a lockdown bar? I'd say VERY new.

Still irrelevant. Many new people joining the hobby daily. Many people buying WOZ as their first pin. A customer should not be chastised for being new to pinball.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Thank you for that.
Sadly, not everybody can be pleased.
But we try hard.
LTG : )

You guys don't get near enough positive reinforcement.

Alex speaks his mind. He's not one for holding back or backing down from a confrontation, However, he is also unnaturally patient with tech stuff and is a wiz on 5 minute phone call fixes I hear. Glad he's on Pinside.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Still irrelevant. Many new people joining the hobby daily. Many people buying WOZ as their first pin. A customer should not be chastised for being new to pinball.

No one is chastising anybody however tech support for someone who is brand new vs an experience pinhead is very very different and special care and feeding is taken with new folks. However many new people as obvious in this video don't understand a simple fix can manifest itself in many different ways. People who are new don't understand switch matrix' and strings. Things that make a small problem look monumental. So yes his time in the hobby is relevant and is handled accordingly but that video shows extremely minor problems most of which are clearly the result of shipping abuse which can be fixed quickly being explained as earth shattering.

#33 5 years ago

Both Alex and Lloyd spent time on the phone with me in late 2013 when I was a noob to the hobby and working out the kinks in my WOZ (early run...so...you know...). At the time I was a complete idiot. Thanks to them, I'm only partially an idiot now. I credit them largely with getting me to the point now where I solder and desolder parts and am never afraid to get my hands dirty and try something new. It was Lloyd that told me that you only learn by doing it...and sometimes messing it up. I've done that plenty, but thanks to them, I now know how to get it working again.

I can't thank the JJP tech support team enough for making me feel welcome in this hobby, and I only hope when I get my first Stern NIB (hopefully later this year) that they're just as accommodating.

#34 5 years ago

You're very welcome Randy.

#35 5 years ago

The guy in the video is a member here, he posted a video about building his gameroom here a few weeks back.(good video too). I am sure he will chime in at some point.

26
#36 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

The JJP warranty is parts not labor. ( as is other pinball manufacturers )

As the guy in the video stated...this was a brand new pin, straight out of the box. If something isn't working as it should, and it needs to be repaired in order to work, you are going to pay for the labor to fix it, unless you are going to refund the purchase price of the pin. I don't care what the warranty says.

There is a thing called Implied Warranty of Merchantability that would apply here.

That isn't to say that there can't be an attempt to have the customer do the repairs themself, but if they can't, it will need to be fixed. Including labor.

I know that Stern will cover labor under these types of circumstances. A friend who had issues with a Tron LE and the LED boards going out on day 1 had Stern send a tech over to his house to do the repair at no charge.

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

No one is chastising anybody

According to the narrator of the video, Jack was.

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

According to the narrator of the video, Jack was.

I meant me. As I or Lloyd obviously aren't privvy to that conversation neither one of us can comment on that but I have never seen jack either angry nor nasty or dismissive.

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

The JJP warranty is parts not labor. ( as is other pinball manufacturers )
Some distributors provide a service call or extended warranty.
There have been some occasions where JJP may pay for a tech's visit to correct a factory defect. That decision would be higher up the ladder though, I have no say in it.
LTG : )

Lloyd,
That's just sad. I really would like one of these but new out of the box I would be paying labor? Really?

this happens with Stern too? I had an issue with my STLE and they replaced the machine.True story.
3K 5K 7K 9K do these manufactures not think this is a big deal to the average pinhead?

I'm a bit shocked. Am I missing something here ? someone enlighten me

#40 5 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

someone enlighten me

Buy from a distributor who provides what you need/want.

And as I posted earler, JJP has taken care of somethings like factory defects. But you need to go through your distributor first, then JJP. Higher up the food chain. Those are decisions I can't make.

And I know JJP has on rare occasion swapped a machine out for customers.

LTG : )

#41 5 years ago

The narrator is semi-new to pinballs, but here is his video that he posted on pinside a few weeks ago
about building his arcade. (good video).
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/my-pinball-arcade-in-the-garage-video-

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

I'm a bit shocked. Am I missing something here ? someone enlighten me

What you are missing is the great customer service Lloyd, Alex and JJP provide. I really don't know how Lloyd does it. They all bend over backwards.

I'm sure they are quite aware of what a "big deal" it is. And to act like Stern would care or somehow do something a whole lot different and better in this case is a joke.

I'm also sure I wouldn't want to have to deal with some of the pain in the ass customers that you can never please. In my business I get to refuse service to anybody I want to and I can't imagine putting up with some of these whiny yahoos that they have to. Most people are great I'm sure.

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

His problem wasn't with Lloyd or the other tech support guy. He even said that he was hoping to get it all sorted out. He said that the real issue and "the turning point" was with the way Jack handled the situation.

This concerns me greatly and is giving me 2nd thoughts about buying Hobbit.
Customer service is EVERYTHING imo and as the other guy from Brisbane said...we are a long way away.
Hmmmmmm.

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

Lloyd,
That's just sad. I really would like one of these but new out of the box I would be paying labor? Really?
this happens with Stern too? I had an issue with my STLE and they replaced the machine.True story.
3K 5K 7K 9K do these manufactures not think this is a big deal to the average pinhead?
I'm a bit shocked. Am I missing something here ? someone enlighten me

I lost count how many houses I have gone to in order to help someone with their game. Of course we fix people's machine on site when needed. But that's after you exhaust the phone conversation which usually fixes 95+ percent of the problem. I didn't speak with this gentleman but would have had him up and running quickly. In any event what's done is done but by all means we go out on a ridiculous limb to help people. Me personally until 3am the night before Xmas when I should be sleeping so im not a zombie when My son opens his presents but one of our west coast customers was having family over Xmas day and wanted his game up. 3 hrs from midnight to 3am. Problem fixed. You won't find another company that would do that.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And to act like Stern would care or somehow do something a whole lot different and better in this case

Stern is known for their excellent customer support.

Quoted from iceman44:

Most people are great I'm sure.

All people are great. Even the ones that try to get me fired.

LTG : )

-1
#46 5 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

This concerns me greatly and is giving me 2nd thoughts about buying Hobbit.
Customer service is EVERYTHING imo and as the other guy from Brisbane said...we are a long way away.
Hmmmmmm.

Kind of a joke isn't it? Stern is even further away in Chicago. Shhhh, don't tell anybody though.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Kind of a joke isn't it? Stern is even further away in Chicago. Shhhh, don't tell anybody though.

I am not interested in Stern, I want a Hobbit but not if the guy who runs the joint is going to berate me down a phone line.

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

This concerns me greatly and is giving me 2nd thoughts about buying Hobbit.
Customer service is EVERYTHING imo and as the other guy from Brisbane said...we are a long way away.
Hmmmmmm.

lol want to see my cell phone bill for international calls? I switched to skype because calls to the UAE are expensive. Lol.

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

I am not interested in Stern, I want a Hobbit but not if the guy who runs the joint is going to berate me down a phone line.

Won't happen. In 2 years and hundreds of calls I've never once had an unpleasant call or discussion with jack. Patience is a virtue he has a tremendous amount of.

#50 5 years ago

For every one of these types of stories, there are 50+ or more of positive experiences. I had issues and every one of them was dealt with professionally and to my ultimate satisfaction.

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