New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 84386)

Interesting question...whitewater vs mm


By NJGecko

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 51 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by S37VEN
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 6 years ago

So...I'm in on an MMR LE, but I'm starting to reconsider.
Not because it's not going to be an awesome game, but I'm thinking it may not be an $8,000 game to me. To me.

I know how I get...I play a game for a while and either love it or get bored of it and move on.

So I'm debating if it would make more sense for me to pick up a whitewater, save the rest of the cash...or potentially even get another machine in addition.

One thing I can say for sure that I've learned is that just because a machine is highly rated and expensive does not mean it's a great machine to everyone. I had an AFM and let it go. Meh.

Dunno. Thoughts?

#2 6 years ago

If your not sure I'd say wait on it they are going to make unlimited standards so you have that luxury. I know I want to have the MMRLE in the collection that's why my desire hasn't fluctuated. That said, there is not another pin on the market I would pay $8K for. I personally don't love whitewater enough to pay what they are currently going for.

#3 6 years ago

Have you played MM lately? If you love it it's worth it, if it's just another pin buy whitewater or something else. 8k pins are for keeping, too much money to just throw around IMHO

#4 6 years ago

I'm going to make my way over to Modern tomorrow and put some time on both and see....

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:

Have you played MM lately? If you love it it's worth it, if it's just another pin buy whitewater or something else. 8k pins are for keeping, too much money to just throw around IMHO

Well said. +1

#6 6 years ago

Agreed. Still, opinions are important

#7 6 years ago

If you want a flow game with a moderate amount of depth, choose Whitewater. If you want a stop-and-go game with a large amount of depth, choose Medieval Madness. It all depends on personal preference.

#8 6 years ago

I have gone back and forth myself...since I could purchase a LUCI and still have cash to either put towards another pin or put into that pin. Think I have made up my mind to stay with MMR. GL at Modern Pinball, heard it's a great place to play

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from Captive_Ball:

I have gone back and forth myself...since I could purchase a LUCI and still have cash to either put towards another pin or put into that pin. Think I have made up my mind to stay with MMR. GL at Modern Pinball, heard it's a great place to play

Yep, modern is great. My old Fish Tales wound up there. It's close to me, but New York City close. It's probably under a mile, but it's at least a half hour or more to get there. But tomorrow I may have a bit of time. Last time I went there I left and started hunting for ST. This time...who knows....

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

I'm going to make my way over to Modern tomorrow and put some time on both and see....

how long has Modern had a MM?

#11 6 years ago

I'm pretty sure they had one last time I was there, but not 100% positive. I know they have a wh20 though. I've got a few local friends with MMs if needbe though

#12 6 years ago

I own both and love love love whitewater. Wh20 is an easy sale if it is not for you and you won't lose.

You are more than a mile from NYC. I'm a mile from NYC

#13 6 years ago

I had a chance to pick up a white water recently and passed. That said I would buy a MM if I had the cash. Seriously considered picking up a MMR when it was announced. Maybe next year on 0% apr credit card .

#14 6 years ago

Knowing how you like to restore games I have no idea why you would want a MMR.

MMR is for someone that wants a holy grail pin but couldn't pay the crazy original prices for a nice one. Now that MMR is out, you should be able to pick up a less than perfect MMR for much less than you used to and you can replace whatever you want on one with all the parts available. I dont see MMR as a good purchase to someone that just plays a game for a while and moves on.. no lasting value as they will make as many as needed.

on MMR vs. WH20... my opinion is WH20.. just is more "fun" for me, appears deeper and more unique, but of course you should make your own decisions on gameplay.

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from shlockdoc:

I own both and love love love whitewater. Wh20 is an easy sale if it is not for you and you won't lose.
You are more than a mile from NYC. I'm a mile from NYC

Yes, but I work in Midtown...so I'm technically in NYC every damn day...

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

Knowing how you like to restore games I have no idea why you would want a MMR.
MMR is for someone that wants a holy grail pin but couldn't pay the crazy original prices for a nice one. Now that MMR is out, you should be able to pick up a less than perfect MMR for much less than you used to and you can replace whatever you want on one with all the parts available. I dont see MMR as a good purchase to someone that just plays a game for a while and moves on.. no lasting value as they will make as many as needed.
on MMR vs. WH20... my opinion is WH20.. just is more "fun" for me, appears deeper and more unique, but of course you should make your own decisions on gameplay.

Funny, that's what my wife said...she said it's healthy for me to keep up on projects. I have my TZ coming back together, and would be up for this one too. I suppose MMR's are going to be around for a while, so no rush on those.

Dunno. I will see whether Wh20 really strikes my fancy. I've played it a few times, but never with the point of view of actually owning one.

#17 6 years ago

Get MM if your going to keep it.

#18 6 years ago

At the same price I prefer MM. However, when WH2O is half the cost that is my pick. That leaves plenty of cash for TS, WW, etc.

#19 6 years ago

given that AFM and MM are similar and you did not like AFM enough to keep it, then it might make sense to WH20. Also as others have said, you could still get the MMR later, and WH20 are are typically easy to sell.

I did not really appreciate WH20 until I owned one and understood the rules. Picked it up a year or two ago for $1500 (with topper), so it was a no brainer (good condition and fully working). It is a game where there is a clear set of goals, that are attainable by being a smart and strategic player and not necessarily having to have great skills. It is also relatively easy to get the first multi-ball, so it is a good game for guests.

#20 6 years ago

WH2O has a way bigger variety of shots to make. There won't be another game like it ever made. The music is pure genius as you advance.

MM has the simple fan layout. It is a great game for non-pinheads because it's easy to destroy a castle and they get that great feeling of accomplishment. Getting "the holy grail" of pins and getting it NIB is going to be a one of a kind experience that needs to be strongly considered.

If you are choosing on price alone, obviously you could get two great games for one MMr, so your choice really has to be for the love of MM.

#21 6 years ago

^^Agree. WH20 has more shots. I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I just don't get the appeal of MM. Yes it's fun, but it's not the end all be all IMO.

I guess that's why the manufacturers were kind enough to give us all a variety huh?!

#22 6 years ago

Wh20 is a much better game imo, MM is great but is overpriced and over rated right up the wazoo.

#23 6 years ago

Neither. Go buy an XMENLE.

#24 6 years ago

WH20 is such a great game. I think it's a little over priced, but I can accept why.

MM? I just wasn't feeling the love. Is it a good game, yes, and the castle feature is really cool. But past that, it's way over hyped in my opinion and the price is nuts. I think the remake is going to make the original prices come back down to Earth. I've noticed more people have been trying to sell them in the last 6 months.

If it were me, WH20 all the way plus another pin.

GL either way you go G.

#25 6 years ago

I sold my WH20 to a friend and am seriously thinking about buying it back. I found most everyone enjoyed playing WH20. I've never had any interest in MM b/c of the price tag. I like to play MM but would never buy one at its current price.

#26 6 years ago

I'm another WH2O fan but I have a soft spot for that game. I really really like MM but for some reason it's never had quite the same the same amount of fun and repeat playablility for me. That being said, if they were priced equally, I might go for the MM based on the depth. They're not even close to being priced evently though.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

Neither. Go buy an XMENLE.

No, spend it on prostitutes!

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

Neither. Go buy an XMENLE.

+ 1.5

Code rocks!

#29 6 years ago

Wait, I can choose between pins and hookers? Damn...whole new side of this hobby....can we get a top 100 hooker list?

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

Wait, I can choose between pins and hookers? Damn...whole new side of this hobby....can we get a top 100 hooker list?

+10. When choosing between two specific pins, always choose hookers!

#31 6 years ago

I cannot justify the price
It does not matter if it is a MM, JJP or a stern LE, $8000 (or more) is too much to spend on a toy

#32 6 years ago

WH20…still in my collection after 3 years and the high-end MM restoration stayed 3 months.

The folks who prefer WH20 might be in the minority, but as this thread points out, WH20 get & deserves a lot of respect. Unlike many pins, WH20 is unique in many ways.

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from PopBumperPete:

I cannot justify the price

Hookers ARE expensive! (but worth every penny!)

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from jathomp22:

I found most everyone enjoyed playing WH20. I've never had any interest in MM b/c of the price tag. I like to play MM but would never buy one at its current price.

Funny, my experience totally different. Non pinheads love playing MM as the theme pulls them in, castle toy, dragon, etc. Wh20 is for pinheads. Casual gamers get frustrated and tire of it quickly.

That said, I own both. MM is a centerpiece of a collection and everyone plays it. Wh20 I appreciate more now that I own one but will always prefer MM. Just me.

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

Now that MMR is out, you should be able to pick up a less than perfect MMR for much less than you used to and you can replace whatever you want on one with all the parts available.

I really hope this ends up being true. The wife would got nuts if I got a MM. And for a decent price.

#36 6 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Hookers ARE expensive! (but worth every penny!)

If they supply the cocaine then it is a fair deal.

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinfidel:

WH20 is such a great game. I think it's a little over priced, but I can accept why.
MM? I just wasn't feeling the love. Is it a good game, yes, and the castle feature is really cool. But past that, it's way over hyped in my opinion and the price is nuts. I think the remake is going to make the original prices come back down to Earth. I've noticed more people have been trying to sell them in the last 6 months.
If it were me, WH20 all the way plus another pin.
GL either way you go G.

I know some MM owners here in Aus that think the remake will drive the price of the original up even more and are asking insanely stupid prices to sell.
Personally I think they are bonkers but these are people that collect games and expect $$$ to made on them rather than just play and enjoy them.
The MM bubble will burst sooner or later.

#38 6 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

I had an AFM and let it go. Meh.

If you feel that way about AFM (same as me, mine lasted 3 months), I would shy away from MM, at least a NIB one since they are so similar.

#39 6 years ago
Quoted from Wamprat:

I know some MM owners here in Aus that think the remake will drive the price of the original up even more and are asking insanely stupid prices to sell.
Personally I think they are bonkers but these are people that collect games and expect $$$ to made on them rather than just play and enjoy them.
The MM bubble will burst sooner or later.

I'm sorry but I think that is a bit delusional or wishful thinking. Of course some will want an original its an awesome pin. However, I and I bet some others would not even consider paying $8K plus for a 20 year old pin with wear. Now that we have the opportunity to buy a Remake it will take many that want a MM off the market for the original. I am not one that thinks prices will tank on original MM at all but I do think it will drop a little.

#40 6 years ago

It's just a matter of opinion.
I think it's delusional to pay the type of $$ being asked for MM.

#41 6 years ago

Heck, $8k is a lot for a pin and in my house, I'm largely the only player. So unless I am head over heels in love with it, who knows what makes sense.

I see MMR prices definitely falling. They can keep pumping out the MMRs for $8k which means HUO ones won't ever be above that. Maybe in the short term there will be a spike with the early receivers re-selling at a premium (like happened with WoZ) but once they get the supply cranking and the demand goes down...well, we can see where things lead.

I don't know. I'm very much undecided, but I AM going to play me some Whitewater this afternoon!

#42 6 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

They can keep pumping out the MMRs for $8k which means HUO ones won't ever be above that.

I would agree, but I think the amount it will drop is factor of both if they are still being made and if the are, the perceived value of NIB vs a low use HUO. Is a NIB worth $500 more? is it a $1000? Whatever that number is, is what we will set the value of HUO (obviously with variations for condition, mods, etc.). Even with the 20 to 25% increase in supply, once the games are no longer being made, and as time passes, it would likely start to creep back up (assuming pinball continues to grow in popularity), but certainly would not get up to the crazy prices MM are have been going for.

#43 6 years ago

So... Gecko what is the verdict? Did playing WW sway you out of MMR?

#44 6 years ago

Actually yes and no. How's that for an answer?

I do think I may be away from MMR. I love working on the older machines.

I went down to Modern and played their wh20 last week. Had a few good games on it. I went to a friend's house and played his MM for a while. I really like MM. But mentally I don't want to pay $8k for it. I'm actually potentially arranging to get a wh20 at home as a loaner for a little bit. Man, for $8k I could have two really nice other games. So I just don't know...I just know no MMR.

#45 6 years ago

And yes I realize that made not a ton of sense

#46 6 years ago

i can't stand whitewater. I find it very boring with few shots. It just does nothing for me.

#47 6 years ago
Quoted from NathanP:

i can't stand whitewater. I find it very boring with few shots. It just does nothing for me.

Same here...

#48 6 years ago
Quoted from NathanP:

i can't stand whitewater. I find it very boring with few shots. It just does nothing for me.

Few shots?

If you don't like it, you don't like it, but don't say things about it that aren't true to try and justify your reason for not liking it.

#49 6 years ago

It may not have the same quantity of shots as some games, but there are 7 primary shots, excluding the 'mine' (which I never shoot for) and excluding all the stand-ups (I think there are 13 stand-ups). So not sure how can you say 'few shots'. It has a clear set of objectives that a beginner can quickly grasp (as well as a multiball that is easy to achieve for a beginner) and has both a minor and major goal (Willies and Vacation jackpot). And while the latter is not easy, and it does require strategy to achieve, it is attainable by an above average player on a frequent enough basis, that it is not a once in a 500 games kind of thing.

#50 6 years ago

To me Whitewater >> MM. I got rid of MM years ago and never looked back. I haven't missed it at all not even once. WH2O I have missed terribly and I am completely stoked to be receiving a REALLY NICE one via truck in a week or so!!!!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 45.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside