(Topic ID: 332491)

Interest in Preserving Old VHS Videos?

By Crash

1 year ago


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Topic poll

“Does this seem beneficial for old Pinball VHS tapes?”

  • Yes 28 votes
    90%
  • No 3 votes
    10%

(31 votes)

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#1 1 year ago

Bally/Williams released a number of promo VHS videos throughout the 90s and they are interesting to watch. We can find many of these on YouTube, but the quality of these can be sub-par as they've been captured years ago. That being said, methods of capturing and preserving of VHS tape material have continued to improve in recent years. If any of you still have some Williams promo tapes sitting around I am one of the few people using a technique called RF level preservation and decoding. What that means is I have a modified VCR and PC setup that allows me to capture the very finest details on the tapes, by way of sampling/digitizing the actual RF signal recorded onto the tape itself played back directly from the tape heads. From that capture, I can then 100% play it back in software and stabilize it with time base correction. That method can recover additional detail, depending on the condition of the tape, and gives a few avenues of tweaking how the image is processed on the software side. The result is often comparable to a pro-sumer level S-VHS machine with a built in time base corrector circuit. A few examples using this software capture and preservation method. Is anyone interested in working with me on doing "full tape-level" preservations of Williams videos?

https://github.com/oyvindln/vhs-decode#readme

https://archive.org/download/scaredsilly-rfcapture/Scared%20Silly%20deinterlaced.mp4

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Edit: Here's what I now have, for your enjoyment!

https://odysee.com/@Crashdance22/addams-family-pinball-promo-video-vhs-rf-capture:6

https://odysee.com/@Crashdance22/gilligans-island-pinball-promo-video-vhs-rf-capture:6

https://odysee.com/@Crashdance22/pingame-journal-100th-issue-volume-1-vhs-rf-capture:b

https://odysee.com/@Crashdance22/pingame-journal-100th-issue-volume-2-vhs-rf-capture:3

https://odysee.com/@Crashdance22/pingame-journal-100th-issue-volume-3-vhs-rf-capture:7

Here's a Ford Thunderbird promo video as well if interested.

https://odysee.com/@Crashdance22/taking-flight-2002-ford-thunderbird-vhs-rf-capture:7

#2 1 year ago

Poll seems promising. If you have one of these videos and want to try this PM me and maybe we can work something out.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from Crash:

Bally/Williams released a number of promo VHS videos throughout the 90s and they are interesting to watch. We can find may of these on YouTube, but the quality of these can be sub-par as they've been captured years ago. That being said, methods of capturing and preserving of VHS tape material have continued to improve in recent years. If any of you still have some Williams promo tapes sitting around I am one of the few people using a technique called RF level preservation and decoding. What that means is I have a modified VCR and PC setup that allows me to capture the very finest details on the tapes, by way of sampling/digitizing the actual RF signal recorded onto the tape itself played back directly from the tape heads. From that capture, I can then 100% play it back in software and stabilize it with time base correction. That method can recover additional detail, depending on the condition of the tape, and gives a few avenues of tweaking how the image is processed on the software side. The result is often comparable to a pro-sumer level S-VHS machine with a built in time base corrector circuit. A few examples using this software capture and preservation method. Is anyone interested in working with me on doing "full tape-level" preservations of Williams videos?
https://github.com/oyvindln/vhs-decode#readme
https://archive.org/download/scaredsilly-rfcapture/Scared%20Silly%20deinterlaced.mp4

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Holy Hannah, I might be interested in this for other kinds of tapes!

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from Dan_Halen:

Holy Hannah, I might be interested in this for other kinds of tapes!

It's good for just about any type of material.

#5 1 year ago

I have no clue if these are original tapes. You may know more about them.

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#6 1 year ago

Given the generic labels and large style reels, they are probably original. If you need more info feel free to PM me. There are ways to tell if tapes are original or second generation copies by analyzing the actual RF signals.

#7 1 year ago

Any Data East stuff on VHS as well? I've only seen Bally/Midway/Williams.

#8 1 year ago

ForceFlow can you move this to the All Pinball forum? I put it in the Bally/Williams forum but realized there may be other tapes not from Williams out there.

#9 1 year ago

I've got nothing to contribute, unfortunately, but thank you for offering this and your capturing technique is really cool.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from roffels:

I've got nothing to contribute, unfortunately, but thank you for offering this and your capturing technique is really cool.

Thank you! If anyone wants to send me a video I'll upload it and share it here after capturing. You'll of course get it back. Just pay me shipping for a single tape, and we can work out prices if more than one.

#11 1 year ago

Here are two that I got from WMS when I worked at the distributer here in Cleveland way back in the late 90's early 2000's

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#12 1 year ago

Interesting process, about which I know little. But I also have come to recognize the 'digitization' of old material so as to archive it is not nearly as permanent as people seem to think. Once something is digitized, and the original media is thrown away, all you have left is the digital goo-goo which is still plenty hard to keep whole. I have tons of old photos I can no longer see because the digital media failed. If there is a truly permanent way to save digital media, I'd love to hear about that.

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from GregCon:

Interesting process, about which I know little. But I also have come to recognize the 'digitization' of old material so as to archive it is not nearly as permanent as people seem to think. Once something is digitized, and the original media is thrown away, all you have left is the digital goo-goo which is still plenty hard to keep whole. I have tons of old photos I can no longer see because the digital media failed. If there is a truly permanent way to save digital media, I'd love to hear about that.

5D optical data storage. The tech has been around for a decade or more now, but for some reason it has yet to be commercially manufactured.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from GregCon:

Interesting process, about which I know little. But I also have come to recognize the 'digitization' of old material so as to archive it is not nearly as permanent as people seem to think. Once something is digitized, and the original media is thrown away, all you have left is the digital goo-goo which is still plenty hard to keep whole. I have tons of old photos I can no longer see because the digital media failed. If there is a truly permanent way to save digital media, I'd love to hear about that.

For my personal videos I use LTO-5 tape storage, M-Disc Blu-ray, and hard drive storage. Hard drive obviously being the least reliable, but most easily accessible. M-Disc literally etches your data in stone.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from MrCleanHead:

Here are two that I got from WMS when I worked at the distributer here in Cleveland way back in the late 90's early 2000's
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Is anyone aware of any other volume collection tapes like these?

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Crash:

Any Data East stuff on VHS as well?

I'm not aware of any manufacturer other than Williams making promo videos for pinball, and I've been following the industry since before VHS existed.
.................David Marston

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from Crash:

For my personal videos I use LTO-5 tape storage, M-Disc Blu-ray, and hard drive storage. Hard drive obviously being the least reliable, but most easily accessible. M-Disc literally etches your data in stone.

Another thumbs up here for M-Disc Blu Rays. I purchased an external Blu Ray burner for my PC with M-Disc support along with some 100GB M-Discs. I started backing up around 20 years worth of family digital photo's and videos to the M-Discs, same goes for family VHS tapes that I already converted.

All of this data is backed up to the cloud as well but the cloud data depends on how long the cloud provider is around for and if the subscription is active. When I kick the bucket my cloud subscription and all of the data is gone once I stop paying. M-Discs will at least allow me to leave behind a physical archive of family photo's and videos.

#18 1 year ago

Here's a Monty Python interview using this method. Looks fantastic. Remember, this tape is just as old (1994)!

1 week later
#19 1 year ago

I had someone send me some PinGame Journal 100th issue tapes from 2002. Williams staff interviews, promo videos for games, and other misc goodies. Curious to see how those turm out.

1 week later
#20 1 year ago

Looking good!

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Compare this to the horrible YouTube upload:
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#21 1 year ago

keep 'em coming !

#22 1 year ago

NVIDIA recently released this and it may be of interest to you. Excited to see what you can do and thank you so much! https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2023/02/28/rtx-video-super-resolution/

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from hool10:

NVIDIA recently released this and it may be of interest to you. Excited to see what you can do and thank you so much! https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2023/02/28/rtx-video-super-resolution/

Interesting but not something I'll be using for video preservation (I don't have a Nvidia card anyway). Thanks for sharing.

1 month later
#25 10 months ago

These are awesome - thank you for sharing!

#26 10 months ago

Thanks to thepinballworks as well for providing the tapes.

#27 10 months ago

Great job!!!

#28 10 months ago

Loved seeing that prototype TAF in that promo vid! Tons of differences from it to the production model, really cool to see. So nice to have this kind of thing visually cleaned up and archived.

#29 10 months ago

I particularly enjoyed the Gilligan's Island video. Multiple sales reps were willing to be on camera for Williams's first dot matrix display game. That was a big deal!

#30 10 months ago

Here's a Ford Thunderbird promo video as well if interested.

https://odysee.com/@Crashdance22/taking-flight-2002-ford-thunderbird-vhs-rf-capture:7

#31 10 months ago

Very cool project. I've been watching a lot of old VHS shows on youtube and archive.org, like price is right or other weird stuff like commercials. Some of the VHS rips are really rough.

Just to throw in my experience... Beware of optical media going bad. I have some Playstation games burned in maybe 1996-1998 on free after no name 2x CDR brands from comp usa with the dark green dye that still read fine. I remember in the late 90s platstation one burn trading scene (no high speed internet, snail mail) verbatim CDRs was supposed to be good, preferred brand... The metal backings on those verbatim disks is flaking off and corroding away and the cheap ones are holding up better. I have even less luck with DVD-R. A lot of nintendo wii burns on verbatim or memorex DVDs no longer read. Luckily this data is all out there on the internet for me to re-download and you can play them off of a hard drive.

#32 10 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Very cool project. I've been watching a lot of old VHS shows on youtube and archive.org, like price is right or other weird stuff like commercials. Some of the VHS rips are really rough.
Just to throw in my experience... Beware of optical media going bad. I have some Playstation games burned in maybe 1996-1998 on free after no name 2x CDR brands from comp usa with the dark green dye that still read fine. I remember in the late 90s platstation one burn trading scene (no high speed internet, snail mail) verbatim CDRs was supposed to be good, preferred brand... The metal backings on those verbatim disks is flaking off and corroding away and the cheap ones are holding up better. I have even less luck with DVD-R. A lot of nintendo wii burns on verbatim or memorex DVDs no longer read. Luckily this data is all out there on the internet for me to re-download and you can play them off of a hard drive.

Yep, I've had a few 20+ year old retail CD-ROM and burned CD-R games get disc rot as well. My various retail and home video tapes on the other hand, have held up fine I would say at least 95% of the time. I've seen tapes as old as 1986 play perfectly, like they were recorded yesterday. How many CDs from 1986 still play?

#33 10 months ago

Also if you have any old arcade footage you want me to take a look at send me a PM. I love reliving those says too.

6 months later
#34 3 months ago

Anyone else notice this less than year old Attack from Mars already had a GI string out in the backbox? Mmmm, big fat toasty resistors...

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#35 3 months ago

I'm part of a Discord group dedicated to the Rush series of driving games Atari made in the late '90's. During the development of the sequel game Rush 2049, the devs made a bunch of VHS tapes of beta versions of the game along different points in it's progress. I've been trying to track down where those tapes are and if there's anyway to get them to you for proper preservation, I'm going to do it.

Sadly, the person who's last known to have possession of those tapes passed due to cancer. If his family doesn't/didn't know the importance or value of those tapes, I'm afraid they might be gone forever.

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