(Topic ID: 77391)

Gottlieb Sys80 Universal Tester (Leon design) -- MPU Diagnostic Tool


By acebathound

5 years ago



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  • 99 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by acebathound
  • Topic is favorited by 24 Pinsiders

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    There are 99 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 5 years ago

    Update 01/16/2016: PCB available via website at http://www.pinitech.com/products/gottlieb_universaltester.php

    *************

    This is a diagnostic tool / board for use at the bench, when diagnosing Gottlieb Sys80 MPU board issues.. born from Leon's creation here: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leon_Borre_Gottlieb_System_80_CPU_Board_Repair

    The heart of things are the test ROMs, but this board makes it easier to plug-and-play with diagnosing rather than having to connect jumpers or make any modifications to the board. It's a basic board that plugs into the TC1 socket on the top of the Sys80 MPU board and has an LED connected to address A6 (this is the address signal that Leon used for blinking the LED as described in the link above).

    It's now recommended that you utilize this board with Marco's Sys80 Test ROM instead of Leon's, as Marco's ROMs are much more extensive in what they test & he's also active here on the forums.

    gottliebsys80_univtester_assembled_(resized).jpg

    #2 5 years ago

    Well...I use Ed's tester, which is awesome, and really don't have need for a different tester. I've been so happy with Ed's that I never investigated Leon's process. Before your work, which looks excellent, it was a lot of work to implement Leon's test.

    Ed was working to port his tester to a new chip set, IIRC, to address obsolescence.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #3 5 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Well...I use Ed's tester, which is awesome, and really don't have need for a different tester. I've been so happy with Ed's that I never investigated Leon's process. Before your work, which looks excellent, it was a lot of work to implement Leon's test.
    Ed was working to port his tester to a new chip set, IIRC, to address obsolescence.

    I wasn't lucky enough to get one of Ed's testers when he had them available, but it seems to be what the board repair and service technicians are using to quickly diagnose System 80 MPUs and is hands-down a more complete tester. Leon's is much more basic, but still better-than-nothing Ed mentioned on RGP at one point that Leon's design was part of his inspiration for the Quickscan80 tester which I thought was pretty cool. Anyway, I needed something in a pinch to help with fixing up a bunch of System 80 mpu boards.

    Here's a shot of it in a board. I think I inadvertently labeled the eprom as "System 80/80A Only!". Leon's writing style is sometimes hard to understand (assuming since it was translated) but it looks like the universal board just runs the 2732 eprom and it can be used in System 80, 80A or 80B.

    **UPDATE:** I just confirmed that the data within the 2732 and 2764 files match (the 2764 is just a padded file).

    gottlieb_univtest2.jpg

    #4 5 years ago

    Why is that daughter card in the U2 positioned?
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #5 5 years ago

    I'm just glad somebody else is taking the reigns to build up Gottlieb and Bally stuff, I flat out don't have the repair time on those boards to even try it. Leaves me free to handle Williams for now.

    -Hans

    #6 5 years ago

    I didn't do that!! lol. That's someones "oops I just ripped up a bunch of traces" mod. Not documented on pinwiki yet. Should be a good challenge.

    #7 5 years ago

    A friend was lucky to get one of Ed's Quickscan 80 testers. It sure makes it alot faster and easier to repair System 80 boards. I wish Ed could develop a newer, better one with an LCD display instead of a single digit LED. Or maybe come up with with some sort of tester/adapter that could plug the System 80 board into a laptop with a software program which would have extensive diagnostics.

    #8 5 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    A friend was lucky to get one of Ed's Quickscan 80 testers. It sure makes it alot faster and easier to repair System 80 boards. I wish Ed could develop a newer, better one with an LCD display instead of a single digit LED. Or maybe come up with with some sort of tester/adapter that could plug the System 80 board into a laptop with a software program which would have extensive diagnostics.

    I don't even have a system 80 pin at the moment, but I sure would be on board for something like this!

    #9 5 years ago

    In the absence of Ed doing another run of Quickscan 80s, I'd be in for one of these. Heck even if he did I'd still probably be in. I like diagnostic equipment.

    viperrwk

    #10 5 years ago

    Just repaired a System 80B board with the assistance of this tester (not the one pictured though.. that one is going to take some time!)

    I was getting no flashes.. then removed the tester and started checking the cpu lines per the instructions. The IRQ signal was less than 0.2v and on the other side of the pull-up resistor was around 5v. I cut the IRQ pin on the CPU hoping it was the CPU and not one of the RIOTs shorting the signal and as luck would have it, the IRQ signal at the RIOTs then all went to around 4-5v. Replaced the cpu with a spare, put the tester back into the board and the board then passed all 5 of the tests (CPU, RAM, U4 RIOT, U6 RIOT, U5 RIOT).

    I had to clean up the instructions some before I started testing with this again as Leon's had been confusing since it mentions procedures for both the "simple tester" and "universal tester". So I'm revising them to make a ton more sense and will be adding in more information as I work through some more boards. This thing isn't going to pinpoint the exact problem if the cpu is dead, signals would then need to be checked if you aren't getting the first flash.. but it definitely helps point you in the right direction.

    #11 5 years ago

    Put me down as interested.

    I'm already considering rewiring some of Hans's Williams gadgets (display board, solenoid displays) to dual purpose them for some of the Gottlieb stuff I have piled up once I get through my Williams stuff. A way to 'excite' the board will help.

    #12 5 years ago

    I would like one of these, or an Ed version, not that i know who Ed is.. LOL

    my board guys is great but is about 35 mins from me, unless i have a game there for a test bed it sometimes takes some time and travel for him to get here to get things in working order..

    I'm in for one or both of these versions if available..

    #13 5 years ago
    Quoted from Gerry:

    I would like one of these, or an Ed version, not that i know who Ed is.. LOL

    Ed of GPE (Great Plains Electronics - http://www.greatplainselectronics.com) who is an awesome asset to this hobby, supplying much needed electronic components.. corrosion repair kits, high quality replacement power supplies and also creator of the Quickscan80 Gottlieb System 80 MPU tester. He's also worked with manufacturers to get some parts made that are no longer produced so we can keep our machines running. Great guy, great supplier.. ships quick and is very helpful and knowledgeable. His Quickscan80 is hands down the tester to get for Gottlieb System 80 machines, when he makes the next batch available I'm definitely grabbing one.

    #14 5 years ago

    Ah gotcha, Steve tells me of GPE all the time... now i know..thanks

    1 month later
    #15 5 years ago

    I am interested in one of these as well. Just starting to work on Gottlieb boards and can't get this soon enough.

    Thanks

    #16 5 years ago

    I'd be in for one.

    #17 5 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    Ed of GPE (Great Plains Electronics - http://www.greatplainselectronics.com) who is an awesome asset to this hobby, supplying much needed electronic components.. corrosion repair kits, high quality replacement power supplies and also creator of the Quickscan80 Gottlieb System 80 MPU tester. He's also worked with manufacturers to get some parts made that are no longer produced so we can keep our machines running. Great guy, great supplier.. ships quick and is very helpful and knowledgeable. His Quickscan80 is hands down the tester to get for Gottlieb System 80 machines, when he makes the next batch available I'm definitely grabbing one.

    Amen brother!

    #18 5 years ago

    I'd like to add more System 80s to the line up and am also interested.

    #19 5 years ago

    I'm hoping Ed's new Quickscan 80 isn't too far from being released because it looks like he could sell 10-20 units rather easily from the interest I've seen on here and RGP. Seems like someone is always looking for a Quickscan 80. I'd think even if there's an easier way to use Leon's test eprom such as this adapter, most people (including me) would still purchase one of his units when it becomes available since it does a heck of a lot more. I definitely like the idea of helping people have an easier time fixing up System 80s.

    The two extra prototypes I had of this Universal Tester were sent out to several people and one of them used it to fix up a handful of System 80 boards fairly quickly and had some really positive feedback on it. I also found that there's a guy in Holland that created his own test eprom that does more thorough tests than Leon's on the 5101, RIOTs, etc and it works with this setup too. I haven't had a chance to fix any boards with that alternate test eprom, but it looks pretty promising.

    I'm looking at possibly incorporating this design into a piggyback replacement board. For more information on that, go on over to this thread: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alternative-gottlieb-sys80b-piggyback-fix-plug-and-play-interest-check

    #20 5 years ago

    I also use Ed's board but I'd test one of Leon's testers out for you if you need testers of the modified version. PM me a price and I'll send off a check for one.

    Steve

    1 month later
    #21 5 years ago

    Gottlieb ! #1

    F- the rest !

    #22 5 years ago

    All Gottlieb, All the time !

    2 weeks later
    #23 5 years ago

    Any status update on the Universal Tester?

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from jjoravec:

    Any status update on the Universal Tester?

    Getting there Been busy with some house projects, but finally had a time to make a few small tweaks to the PCB today. I'll post an update in a few weeks when I get revised boards in & will have several more that I can assemble and make available for sale at that time. I hope to get this released as a shared Oshpark design to make it more widely available, just not sure exactly when that will happen.. kind of want to get it tested a bit more by others.

    2 weeks later
    #25 5 years ago

    Update: Just got 3x more boards in. I think all but one of those boards will be spoken for, but I should have a dozen more pcbs in a few weeks for anyone else wanting to get in on the initial batch & provide some feedback. I'll update here when they are available, going to keep the bare board or assembled costs reasonable since I intend to release this as a shared Oshpark design, but I'd like some more people to test the boards before I make it available on Oshpark.

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"

    #26 5 years ago

    Count me in, I have a Rock and a TX Sector, both with bad mpu boards.

    #27 5 years ago

    Count me in on the next batch. I got plenty ready to test.

    -Joe

    #28 5 years ago

    Just got a small batch of boards in. I'm going to build some more of these out over the several days. I have some work-in-progress instructions that I created based off of translations of Leon's instructions & highly edited along with my own updates -- will include a link to those to anyone that gets one of these.

    sys80_tester_pcbs.jpg

    Trying to offer these at a reasonable price so a few more people can use them & provide some feedback. This is somewhat of a side-project and as such the instructions are a work-in-progress. Also just want to note that I did not create the test program, Leon Borre hand-coded hex values and I have no way of changing the program or knowing *exactly* what it's doing. This board just makes it a bit easier to work with Leon's eprom.

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"

    #29 5 years ago

    I will take one without an eprom, I think I have a few 2732s laying around. How do I order and pay for it.

    Thanks

    Joe

    1 week later
    #30 5 years ago

    BUMP. Anyone else want one of these right now? I have 6-7 more boards I can assemble. See above for details/pricing.

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
    Kits, upgrades and test equipment for pinball machines

    1 month later
    #31 5 years ago

    Haven't really heard much new feedback on the last batch of these I sent out, but assuming they have been working out okay for those that ordered.

    I'm posting the shared Oshpark design at http://www.pinitech.com/free_designs.php for anyone that wants to order bare boards & build it themselves. Don't expect much support on these since they are being made free & USE-AT-YOUR-OWN-RISK applies here!

    There's also another more advanced test ROM that was written by Marco Albus -- here's a Youtube video he posted of its usage --

    I didn't want to put him out with directing too many people to him but he seems pretty open to sharing the ROM with anyone that asks for it. I've tested it briefly with the Universal Tester board & it seemed to be flashing LEDs as expected. Really didn't test to thoroughly but I expect to use it more later this year. Marco recently posted in another thread here on Pinside as user "MarAlb" (quote below).

    Related to the subject (i don't want to hijack your topic)....i did write a few test Eprom's inspired by Leon, also for Gottlieb system 80. There is a small movie from it at youtube (from an earlier version, i added some more things later). It does a more thorough job testing the memories, it tests also the switch matrix inputs and the socket for PROM2. No problem to share it with you.

    Thread here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mypinballs-new-system-80b-cpu-board

    I still have a handful of Universal Tester boards available from the latest batch I ordered & can sell them as bare boards. PM if interested.

    Again, no support on these really, since it's being made free & not running any code I can support. I'll post a parts list shortly.

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
    Kits, upgrades and test equipment for pinball machines

    #32 5 years ago

    Nice to meet you again here at Pinside It is nice to see people being creative and creating stuff to keep pinball machines alive. My respect to everyone putting effort in this. If i can add something to that by sharing my test Eprom's it is no problem for me. You can send me a PM via Pinside or Youtube if you would like to obtain the images of the ROM's and a description to the tests. And yes, i am a bit embarrassed i still don't have a website yet with everything published.....

    Marco

    #33 5 years ago
    Quoted from MarAlb:

    Nice to meet you again here at Pinside It is nice to see people being creative and creating stuff to keep pinball machines alive. My respect to everyone putting effort in this. If i can add something to that by sharing my test Eprom's it is no problem for me. You can send me a PM via Pinside or Youtube if you would like to obtain the images of the ROM's and a description to the tests. And yes, i am a bit embarrassed i still don't have a website yet with everything published.....
    Marco

    Hey Marco, nice to see you here! If you want I can put a separate page up on my website with your test ROM info & contact info. I could also host the file if you want & include any information you'd like there with instructions + a Paypal donation link too if you'd like to do that to help support your efforts (you'd just need to send me the Paypal donate button link that you create in Paypal). Otherwise I'll just have people contact you however you wish & you can let me know if/when you do get a website up & running so I can link to it.

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
    Kits, upgrades and test equipment for pinball machines

    #34 5 years ago

    Thanks I was following Pinside for some time already, user applejuice pulled me over the line with his beautiful system80B board to join Pinside. So, i am a pinsider since today I really appreciate your offer. I should first write decent manuals, make pictures and new movies...the ones at youtube are obsolete already. Someone already made a framework for me for adding a technical website to our gameroom-etten website. Time is my biggest problem however.... And i made a bunch of test Eprom's already....Gottlieb system 80, Gottlieb system 3, Gottlieb sound/speech (BlackHole, HaHouse, ...), system 80B sound with edge connector, system 80B/system3 sound, Williams system 3-6, Williams system 7, Data East. I am currently working on a Williams system 9 test Eprom, system 11 will follow next (which are evolutions of the system 3-7 rom's). And there are more idea's running in my head which are affecting priorities.....

    Cheers!

    Marco

    #35 5 years ago

    Wow! Sounds great! Okay for now I will just direct them to your Youtube video / Pinside username.

    Thanks for creating new and improved test eproms, hope you get them posted some day at gameroom-etten!

    6 months later
    #36 4 years ago

    Another thread got me thinking about this one..

    I'm curious, for those that have used this tester (either buying an assembled board from me or purchasing bare boards through Oshpark & building it).. has it helped you to diagnose Sys80 board issues? Personally I found it pretty useful with Leon's ROM. I never really got the chance to exercise Marco's ROM out a lot.. but it seemed like it was much more thorough and make this tester into something even better. I plan on getting back to testing with Marco's ROM soon.

    I saw someone on KLOV that mentioned purchasing boards through Oshpark..and it seemed to help them narrow some things down. Really haven't had any emails or comments on the tester.. or seen anyone else talk about it. From downloads of the pdf manual, it seems there have been a good handful of people that purchased the bare boards through Oshpark. Hopefully it has been useful!

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
    Kits, upgrades and test equipment for pinball machines

    #37 4 years ago

    Just seen your post and it reminded me I puchased some boards from Oshpark. Were do I find instructions on how to populate the board? I would purchase a complete board but don't see a link to do so. I think I own at least one of all your test boards and would love to get this one as well. Great work and thank you!

    #38 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pin-one:

    Just seen your post and it reminded me I puchased some boards from Oshpark. Were do I find instructions on how to populate the board? I would purchase a complete board but don't see a link to do so. I think I own at least one of all your test boards and would love to get this one as well. Great work and thank you!

    No official instructions yet.

    My best suggestion is then to build from the inside-out. Basically look at the board or mock-place the components and think of how you might get yourself in trouble if you soldered one component before another component. I think it goes.. 1.2k watt resistor, then the 20 pin sip header at the top of the board, then both 12-pin machine sip socket headers for the eprom. Then the 20 pin sip header at the bottom of the board. LED can be done any time.

    I had taken some pictures at one point.. if I can find those I'll post some quickie assembly instructions. If I can't, I'll try to get some pictures the next time I build one.. or someone else that is building it can take some pictures. It's not too bad.. there's just a few components that if soldered before the others, can make it a bit more difficult to solder the remaining components. Not impossible, just more of a challenge!

    Thanks for the comments!

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
    Kits, upgrades and test equipment for pinball machines

    #39 4 years ago

    For several people that have been asking -- the QS80 Ver 3 is nearly ready.
    Bit more software testing before it can be called done.

    Ed

    QS80_3.JPG
    #40 4 years ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    For several people that have been asking -- the QS80 Ver 3 is nearly ready.
    Bit more software testing before it can be called done.
    Ed

    I've been asking!

    I definitely look forward to finally getting one of your testers Ed! Nice work, it looks great!

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
    Kits, upgrades and test equipment for pinball machines

    #41 4 years ago

    Steve want! Please LMK by PM when you have them available.

    Steve

    Quoted from G-P-E:

    For several people that have been asking -- the QS80 Ver 3 is nearly ready.
    Bit more software testing before it can be called done.
    Ed

    QS80_3.JPG 32 KB

    #42 4 years ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    For several people that have been asking -- the QS80 Ver 3 is nearly ready.
    Bit more software testing before it can be called done.
    Ed

    Looks sweet Ed. I'm in!

    I have the OshPark bare board...just haven't populated it yet.
    That should be straightforward. Just need the time.
    --
    Chris Hbler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    For several people that have been asking -- the QS80 Ver 3 is nearly ready.
    Bit more software testing before it can be called done.
    Ed

    Ed,

    Put me on the list. Looking forward to this.

    Joe

    #44 4 years ago

    Put me on your list ED, I have been looking forward to getting one of your testers, it is looking great.

    #45 4 years ago

    Well, if there is a intake list for Ed's board I want to be on it.

    #46 4 years ago

    I have several people asking to be put on the list. If you sent an email - you're on the list. But, I haven't answered all the emails to confirm this yet.

    Ed

    2 months later
    #47 4 years ago

    For the pinitech board, does it work with a 7404, or do you need to use a 74LS04? I'm not sure what the difference is between the two ICs.

    #48 4 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    For the pinitech board, does it work with a 7404, or do you need to use a 74LS04? I'm not sure what the difference is between the two ICs.

    7404 will work just fine Silkscreen on the PCB was changed shortly after the first few small runs to just "7404". I've used 74LS04 and it's worked just fine, but 7404 is technically a bit better (or 74H04) just in terms of compatibility with the MPUs circuitry.

    Also.... if you haven't already, hit Pinside user "MarAlb" up for his program code that you can burn to a 2732 eprom. It's much more extensive in what it tests than Leon's and he has been working hard on improving it even more over the last year. Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to get back to testing Gottlieb boards to try out all the new features of it I know a recent addition to the code was slowing down the led blinks.. since it gives many more blinks than Leon's program when it's running tests & the led blinks were happening pretty quick prior to that.

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
    Kits, upgrades and test equipment for pinball machines

    #49 4 years ago

    Ok, great, thanks.

    I have some 7404's on hand, but didn't have any 74LS04's.

    2 weeks later
    #50 4 years ago

    So, much to my surprise, standard .100" square headers didn't fit. I missed that round were required, but I'm having some trouble tracking them down. Where can you find round .100" headers?

    [edit]: I found some on amazon of all places. Couldn't find them on the usual electronics sites for some reason.

    amazon.com link »

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