(Topic ID: 153216)

RETROFIT Classic Bally/Stern DIY Plasma-to-LED Conversion Display Kits

By acebathound

8 years ago


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  • 766 posts
  • 62 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by ForceFlow
  • Topic is favorited by 93 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

22 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #1 Refurbish kit for Bally/Stern 6 and 7 digit displays. Posted by acebathound (8 years ago)

Post #362 PCB Depopulation image (Stern DA-100 Rev C) Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

Post #363 PCB population image (Stern DA-100 Rev C) Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

Post #364 PCB 5v population image (Stern DA-100 Rev C) Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

Post #395 SMD pads to enable comma Posted by acebathound (7 years ago)

Post #439 PCB depopulation image (Bally AS-2518-15) Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

Post #440 PCB population image (Bally AS-2518-15) Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

Post #444 PCB Depopulated (Stern DA-100) Posted by eh97ac (7 years ago)

Post #446 PCB depopulated (Stern DA-300) Posted by dothedoo (7 years ago)

Post #469 PCB depopulated (Bally AS-2518-21) Posted by Cheddar (7 years ago)


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#174 7 years ago

It has been awhile.... Any update for the anxious

#176 7 years ago

Thank you for the update. That looks very good. Looking forward for the development and help where possible.

#181 7 years ago

Now I am really teased. I like the amber and toned down. Not too bright.
Not replacing drivers is a real good thing. I am not sure what the part count replacement is for the Bally 6 digits, I would personally prefer to remove the old components and replace then with the correct values. Not a big fan of piggyback. This may not be the best for most of the people as they may not have the right desoldering equipment or skills. The added time for removal is about 5 seconds per hole and, at the end, about a few minutes to pull all parts out and clean. 45 to 60 mins per board seems fair.

Are you planning to have all the versions done before release? There Seems to be a lot. I still have to check what is my version. I think I have the -21. However, most of my plasma displays are good and strong. I plan to find other boards instead of using working ones.

2 months later
#207 7 years ago

If you don't mind shipping in Canada, count me in.

2 weeks later
#238 7 years ago

Ordered. shipping is reasonable to Canada. Looking forward to see it. hunting is now on to find non working displays

#241 7 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Did you ever think in a million years you'd be looking for non working displays? lol.

Oh god no! Before you started this project, it was a throwaway board. I am happy that it is moving forward

#242 7 years ago
Quoted from roar:

That's encouraging and the shipping front. Looking forward to hearing back. My Silverball Mania would look great in blue and 2 of the 5 displays are flickering pretty bad.

Cost is about $23 cdn. it does not ask for your postal code, only wihich country. As for your flickering displays, a few of mine did the same and it was cold solder joints. have you reflowed all your solders, particularly at the connectors?

#245 7 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I bought a box a non working displays a couple months ago. It was more expensive to ship 27 displays than to pay for them

That was quite a find! If I can find half a dozen, i will consider myself lucky. I had one display that was acting funny. I now have a second one but think it is a solder joint as it is ok when I move the display.

#247 7 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

That just means you need to buy some more project machines!

Lol! True. Just the prices in my area are crazily, overly inflated. I plan to get a few more. I love more projects than playing them....

#254 7 years ago

Acebathound

1. Agree, buying more pinballs will increase the number of needing displays. Hope I will have this issue soon! Due to limited space, i also have to be choosy... Unless it is a great deal . It is nice to recycle and keeping it original. This should please some collectors(hopefully). My nirvana is to have one pinball for each era(em, early 80s, late 80s, 90s and 2000s)
2. For me it is full desolder. I understand that parallel soldering is easier. It may cause some other issues. You will also have to have 2 configs of parts. I use Pace equipment. With 90 degrees angled lead, it is straightened with the desoldering tip then sucked up. It is done in about 5-7 seconds per lead. Need a little practice but easy once you get the hang of it.
3. As for the display color, I am kind of debating the color to choose. I am a little reticent to change the original amber color as I feel that I am "cheating" the intended design. However, with the white display, it is very easy to experiment. So I feel good

2 weeks later
#324 7 years ago

I haven't received the kit yet expect it soon. Is there any tracking number?

#327 7 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Sent you a PM with the tracking number. It's saying it was delivered yesterday?

Yes!!! Went to check mail box(we no longer have mail delivered at home) and it was in. Perfect! Will convert them this weekend. Thanks

#360 7 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Had a request to change the holes where the right-angle header pins fit into to make them slightly larger. I had actually thought about shrinking those slightly to see if I could have it so the pins would insert tighter, thinking that might make it easier to pre-insert the pins.

Did one board yesterday. Oh boy! I did the full replacement. Took me way longer than expected as I fumbled on a few things.

As for the size of the hole; i think it could be one size smaller but should not be tight as this is a through hole and the solder has to flow to the other side. I was impressed by the design and quality of the board.

I have no idea how you packed everything in the shipping box. That's a real puzzle to put it back in that i did not even tried. You have more patience than I do. . Well done!

#368 7 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

It's always great hearing this. A ton of time went into the PCB design to get things just-right... tolerances, bracket positioning, plasma footprint & smd pads.. spacing of the digits, etc. Even the rounded corners on the top of the board which I think are a nice touch. I like things to look professional. I like when everything lines up.
I'm sure some people will get kits, build them and wonder what all the fuss was about. But a lot went on behind-the-scenes to simplify all of this stuff, create boards that mated well with the old displays, get them efficient and even trying to stream-line assembly / instructions. I do that, just my nature. If I'm going to do something like this, it makes no sense to just throw things together without thought. It's going to look damn cool, it's going to work well. So it's just awesome when people see that and appreciate it..each and every time So thanks to you & others that have had good things to say about this project and the kits, etc. It's appreciated. Glad to be hearing positive feedback!

You' re welcome! We appreciate too. I enjoy beta testing and provide feedback.

Today, i built the last 4 of the Bally 6 digits. Here is my feedback(one of my rare long post):

The equipment used was; full Pace soldering/desoldering station with flux dispenser, a microscope, compressed air and microminiature tools.

Before i started, i did a colored layout of all the component placement(see attachment in next post)

I did the following for the full mod method;
A. Removed old gas displays (10 mins)
B. Cleaned the boards with isopropyl(5 mins)
C. Desoldered all the components (75 min. One board was really bad to desoldered. Took me over 30 mins and 4 pads damaged. Usually less than 15 mins to do)
D. Installed and Soldered the Led displays to boards (20 mins)
E. Install the angled pins (20 mins. Use rubber band to hold them in place until ready to mate and solder)
F. Formed and soldered all the components( 120 mins)
G. Mated and soldered the display boards to the main boards(45 mins)
H. Re-clean all the boards(5mins)
I. Verify all solder joints under microscope and rework bad/missed joints(30 mins)
J. Installed in pinball and tested. (5 mins). All worked flawlessly!

Time to do 4 displays as per above: ~6hrs
Time to do layout(attachment): 45 mins

Mod/kit comments:
1. The instructions seems to be written for beginners in mind and provide great details that may not be for everyone. Would suggest to do 2 parts, a beginners, and an experienced to solder such as the cheat sheet but with succint steps. A layout is a must to know what is changed at a glanced.
2. Add a few spare resistors/transistor for each value in the kit. I came short on 2 of them. I might have lost them. I know that i had another type that i cut short and had to replace. Luckily, i had my own spares. There was a spare transistor in the kit. It was nice to have as it is not as common
3. The instructions should recommend that the 90 degree angle screws be locktite.
4. Some old main boards are a real pain to desolder/solder due to their built. I had one. Hope you don't have 5 to do.
5. The bench test should only be recommended for troubleshooting. It may scare away people and doing it in the pinball is pretty safe as long as J1 pin 1 is removed
6. Time to complete. Well, i went pretty full bore on this so I could provide feedback, minimize debugging and keep my pin value. I wanted the boards to look great in case I ever sell my pin in the future. The piggy back method may be acceptable for some, however, if i were to be buying a pin with displays done this way, i would de-value the pin as it would look like a hack. The full method take quite some times and the parts count to replace is high making it hard to be less than 60 mins per board not including troubleshooting when required. Note that i am including part forming.
7. I still have to permanently put the filters and light blockers.

Note that i did the "fifth" board the day before and took me over 4 hrs to understand and do the board. I got stucked on the boards mating, soldering/desoldering sequence and following the instructions.

Summary: the kit is of excellent quality and extremely well designed. The finished product done as a full replacement is fantastic, looks great and work flawlessly. I would build it again.

Other comments:
1. I checked under the microscope the long pins and the hole fitting: contrary to my comment this morning, the ratio pin to hole is already tight leaving very little space for the solder to flow to the other side. I do not recommend to go smaller as there is very little space left when the pin is inserted. Would suggest to stay the same or go next size up to help the solder flow. Sorry should have tried to take a photo but not sure it would have worked out

Do you have beta testers that have little soldering/desoldering experience?

I will post the attachment and photos shortly.

#369 7 years ago

Photos of the modified board. Trying to upload the board layout document. Doesn't look like i can do from ipad...

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#372 7 years ago

Piggy backing done correctly may look nice. I am not sure it is a "HIGH LEVEL DIFFICULTY" but would definitively list the equipments and skills required. Cost saving is the main factor to buy this kit(and attract the "do it yourself" crowd).

I think you mentioned in another post that you may look into a new main board and sell as a kit. This would probably have a lower part count thant the current mod and would ease the display mating.

#386 7 years ago

I have used the foam and sized the filter to fit the leds. Foam is very soft and blocks 99% of the lights. It does the job. With the glass on, it looks great.
Did not need any of the transistors. Maybe only a few should be included. Other than a strip of resistors and 3 inches of foam, nothing left.

Looks sharp, i prefer this look over the gas display

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#406 7 years ago

I am not sure that including resistors for the different brightnesses is necessary. You might want to ask what brightness (low/med/high) is wanted. That would lower the cost a little
Zero ohms resistors, i personally would have preferred pre-formed wire. Might be cheaper to procure.
Less spare transistors per kit.
One of your big saving, I believe, is on the pcb. I know the pcb looks fantastic and you can feel the quality and were a charm to solder. No sure it is necessary though. A cheaper type would work as well.
Hope the digits are cheaper by buying that big quantity and did not left the same price. If they are specially made, can you get them with the black body?
Maybe the foam could be replaced by a cheaper solution? I am thinking of something like a cheap blanking panel clipping on the board or the display.

Hope you will be able to break even soon, at least on parts. R&D is another beast.

I am tempted to order another kit as i plan to get another pin. So, after what you have left, you expect next batch in about 2-3 months?

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