(Topic ID: 153216)

RETROFIT Classic Bally/Stern DIY Plasma-to-LED Conversion Display Kits


By acebathound

4 years ago



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  • 763 posts
  • 62 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 22 days ago by nettek
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There are 763 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 16.
#301 3 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

How have you all been dealing with those bent over resistor leads on some boards? Any tips there?

Bench grinder?

#302 3 years ago

You guys must be wizards with the Hakko, it takes me nearly an hour to depopulate the 40 or so components. The bent over leads are the real time suck. The best way I've found so far is to cut the resistors flush with the board, pull the remainder of the leads out the bottom, and then suck the holes clean. The results are clearly worth it to me.

#303 3 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

Bench grinder?

I think that or dremel grinding would be too risky. Those pads aren't being held by much on single-sided boards & seems like it'd be too easy to grind a little too far.

Here's a forum post I found on the subject of leads bent over pads:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/desoldering-resistors.668350/

Seemed most people on that post found snipping components off the top and pulling the leads from the bottom was the best way to go about it. I'm definitely interested in finding out if there's faster/better techniques though.

#304 3 years ago

I heat the lead with the hakko, bend the resistor straight with the hole in the tip of the iron pull the trigger, suck the solder done. Takes practice but been doin it this way for years.

#305 3 years ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

I heat the lead with the hakko, bend the resistor straight with the hole in the tip of the iron pull the trigger, suck the solder done. Takes practice but been doin it this way for years.

What are you using to straighten the resistor lead? Looks like the Hakko tip? Would love to know how to do that and not be losing pads left-and-right

#306 3 years ago

I'll try and take some pics/video the next time I'm tearing one down. But yes I use the tip for the hakko to bend the lead straight. I rarely loose a pad.

#307 3 years ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

I'll try and take some pics/video the next time I'm tearing one down. But yes I use the tip for the hakko to bend the lead straight. I rarely loose a pad.

That would be most appreciated!

The time consuming part otherwise is having to be this surgeon extracting bits of leads, using multiple tools and not really having enough hands to make good time. Having 3-4 hands would help a ton!

I'd imagine with just using the desoldering tip, the trick is to minimize heat applied directly to the pad. Maybe add a bit of new solder as you're heating up the joint with the desoldering gun, sneak under the lead and pull up when the solder is fully melted. Make sure not to pry against the pad at all.. just pull up on the lead with the nozzle. Well that'd be my guess how to reduce pad damage anyway

#308 3 years ago

nope just heat and go, and i think I even have the iron maxed out with heat, trick is light pressure and let the tool to the work. once you see the solder liquefy bend the lead and suck the solder. I also do a slight side to side motion as i am bending the lead up. I should charge a small fee and have people send me there displays to disassemble lol. it's all in the wrist.

#309 3 years ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

nope just heat and go, and i think I even have the iron maxed out with heat, trick is light pressure and let the tool to the work. once you see the solder liquefy bend the lead and suck the solder. I also do a slight side to side motion as i am bending the lead up. I should charge a small fee and have people send me there displays to disassemble lol. it's all in the wrist.

I use the same technique when I desolder components with bent leads

#310 3 years ago

Here are some pic's of the early style bally display with the pullup resistors added to the backside. also I used bare tinned solid core wire to attach the new display to the old base.

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#311 3 years ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Here are some pic's of the early style bally display with the pullup resistors added to the backside. also I used bare tinned solid core wire to attach the new display to the old base.

Looks really clean! What modifications?

I like the small jumper wire on that model display too.

#312 3 years ago

So for the people that have completed a set.. or almost completed, is this something you want to continue to see offered? Would you "do it again?" ie. Should I order some more PCBs and materials sooner than later?

#313 3 years ago

I would absolutely do this again, I would also mention I'd be in for a bare bones kit of just the pcb, digits, and the angle pieces (or where they can be had) to save a lil and then I would just order the parts in bulk from say digikey or wherever. Or if you are willing to provide what and where the digits are from I'd even order them separately. Now that I have one built though I am going to try and work on something a lil different for the color filters.

#314 3 years ago

yeah I am in for more kits. I've got 2 done and 2 7 digits stripped and ready to repopulate.

I had the chip bad on my last display and it caused all of my displays to only display 2 segments whenever the display was plugged in. This might be a good addition to the issues section.

My only suggestions on the kits so far:

1. Pic of the comma enable pads and com
2. Label the resistors on the tape
3. Clarify the nylon washer goes on top of the board (7 digit bally)
4. On Bally 7 251858 R62 is labeled in a weird place and it's possible confuse it with R61 (and it looks like it might be the label for R29). It would be cool to call this out in the doc

5. Bench testing these is a pain. Could you offer a harness to connect to a PC power supply? It would cover pins 10-20 and have an alligator clip for the digit lines. I'll see if I can make one today.

I'll tinker around with the header pins as well. That's the only other PITA I can see.

#315 3 years ago

I also had a bad U1 on one of my displays, pretty easy to figure out, and luckily I had a couple.

I used the plasma leads on all of mine,but glancing at the directions for the right-angle headers, it looked pretty confusing. I found it easier to remove the old glass first thing, rather than waiting until after the board was repopulated.

And to answer your question, yes, I'd order more kits as needed, just don't need any right now. I used to have a bunch of Bally 17/35 games, hard to believe I'm down to one.

#316 3 years ago

I just wish I could get the displays and pcbs. I'd love sooner than later, but that's because I was in Europe instead of home when the beta started At any rate, I'll be happy when these are available again.

#317 3 years ago

played around with setting the header pins. there is enough clearance to set them with the board mounted
2016-09-01 14.06.21-2 (resized).jpg2016-09-01 14.06.31 (resized).jpg2016-09-01 14.06.45 (resized).jpg

#318 3 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

played around with setting the header pins. there is enough clearance to set them with the board mounted

Great! Yeah I found you could do that for a good amount of pins.. some exceed a 90 degree angle and may hit the hole, but require you to grab them with pliers and pull them up slightly as you're pushing into the hole. The trick with pre-inserting pins I documented, I know some pictures are needed.. but I actually got pretty quick at that too. Hey whatever works for people & if you find something that works that wasn't mentioned in the document or this thread.. it's great seeing some new ways of doing things.

The end result when all those right-angle header pins are soldered in looks pretty nice I think.

#319 3 years ago

I wasn't in on the beta testing, but if more become available, I would probably pick up enough for two games - one six digit set for Lost world, and I think I would go with a seven digit to convert my Embryon over. (I so of have to get some seven digit boards for that though.)

#320 3 years ago

made a test harness and it works great

2016-09-01 15.44.28 (resized).jpg2016-09-01 15.48.07 (resized).jpg

it's hard to see but I crimped a lead into pin 12 to allow the seventh digit to be lit

#321 3 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

The end result when all those right-angle header pins are soldered in looks pretty nice I think.

agreed. much better finish. If you make another run can you make those holes slightly bigger?

#322 3 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

made a test harness and it works great

it's hard to see but I crimped a lead into pin 12 to allow the seventh digit to be lit

Cool, that's pretty much what I did! Works really well

I plan to offer either a harness or small pcb board tester as an add-on at some point. Buy it once (or build it yourself) and it makes life a ton easier.

#323 3 years ago

Works fine on a Bally Tester too!

One down, Four to go......

100_1864[1].JPG

#324 3 years ago

I haven't received the kit yet expect it soon. Is there any tracking number?

#325 3 years ago
Quoted from Andyball:

I haven't received the kit yet expect it soon. Is there any tracking number?

Sent you a PM with the tracking number. It's saying it was delivered yesterday?

#326 3 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Works fine on a Bally Tester too!
One down, Four to go......

That's really cool to know

#327 3 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Sent you a PM with the tracking number. It's saying it was delivered yesterday?

Yes!!! Went to check mail box(we no longer have mail delivered at home) and it was in. Perfect! Will convert them this weekend. Thanks

#328 3 years ago

I first should apologize in advance for what comes next,SORRY for my greed but...
I know your in the middle of this project and busy ,however,do you think you will be doing early Williams too? Or Gottlieb?
Go ahead kick me in the shin for rushing you!
Mike

#329 3 years ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

I first should apologize in advance for what comes next,SORRY for my greed but...
I know your in the middle of this project and busy ,however,do you think you will be doing early Williams too? Or Gottlieb?
Go ahead kick me in the shin for rushing you!
Mike

Mike,

I am just curious about your question to Wayne for one reason - do Gottlieb displays ever really go bad? Or are you asking more because of the LED?

Williams might makes sense since I have had bad ones from Williams machines (more System 9 & 11 than the earlier displays -- since we don't do much with System 3 to 7 stuff) but I don't ever remember have a bad glass on a earlier Gottlieb and was just curious. In fact a few years back I bought a set of new display glass to have "just in case" and I have never used one.

#330 3 years ago

I would also be interested in a williams conversion set. The display boards are dead simple. Solder on the digits and the pins. The master would need multiple variants for digits, alpha and early with integrated master

#331 3 years ago

I'm back in the States, and soldering up some LED boards.

Tip #1:

Here is a quick tip that every field service tech knows.

If you don't have a component bender in the field, a large pair of Vise-Grips gives you a quick and dirty tool to bend up components against:

1 (resized).jpg

Find the groove that is the correct size lengthwise, then make your bends neatly.

Bend up all the resistors at the same time. Don't bend one, install one, bend one.....try to be efficient.

Buy a "Lead Forming Tool" for 99cents on Ebay. You will use it for the rest of your life.

lead forming tool (resized).jpg

#332 3 years ago

Tip #2:

If you want to do a really great assembly, remember to blackout the sides of the LEDs so the white plastic does not show through the backglass.

You should do this before assembly, or you won't be able to reach between the displays.

2 (resized).jpg

3 (resized).jpg

Ohhhh, so sexy.

You can use a magic marker, but remember that if you use alcohol to remove any flux, it will remove the marker.

The displays come with a plastic face protector, so you can spray paint the sides and not worry about getting overspray on the faces.

Use your mini paper clips to keep the leads from getting sprayed. You need 2 per display.

683462-single-clamp-style-paper-clip-on-white-background-Stock-Photo (resized).jpg

#333 3 years ago

Tip #3:

Working on filthy boards sucks.

40 years of baked on filth, plus the oxidized solder is not fun.

Automatic Dishwashing Detergent contains fine sand that scrubs off the oxides, leaving nice looking solder traces too.

Put all the boards in the dishwasher, and run on the "Pots and Pans" cycle.

The boards will come out clean, hot and dry; ready to be serviced.

5 (resized).jpg

^ A smattering of clean boards ^

#334 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Tip #3:
Put all the boards in the dishwasher, and run on the "Pots and Pans" cycle.
The boards will come out clean, hot and dry; ready to be serviced.

I have to try this sometime when the wife isn't home to see it

#335 3 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

I have to try this sometime when the wife isn't home to see it

Yeah, don't let the wife ever see that one!

#336 3 years ago
Quoted from too-many-pins:

are you asking more because of the LED

I like the look but I also like the efficiency of LED. And I can't say I've ever had a Gottlieb display go bad,just needed a re-charge.
Mike

#337 3 years ago

all done, they look great. Maybe should have gone a step down in brightness2016-09-02 10.29.31 (resized).jpg

#338 3 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

all done, they look great. Maybe should have gone a step down in brightness

There's a few things you can do. Swap resistors on the segments out for the higher value or use a neutral-density led gel / filter. The filter shouldn't change the color, it'll just knock down the brightness. But yeah if you're using those WHITE digits as white, probably want to go with the higher resistor value in the kit. Unless of course you put on a pair of sun-glasses when playing hehe.

#339 3 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

all done, they look great. Maybe should have gone a step down in brightness

Put a layer or two of blue gel over the displays and knock them down a little more till it's to your liking.

#340 3 years ago

I think it looks fantastic
Mike

#341 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Put a layer or two of blue gel over the displays and knock them down a little more till it's to your liking.

Those are actually WHITE digits being used as WHITE in Centaur. I think the camera just couldn't handle how bright they were and did this blue aura thing Ghostly!

#342 3 years ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

I like the look but I also like the efficiency of LED. And I can't say I've ever had a Gottlieb display go bad,just needed a re-charge.
Mike

Mike,

I was just wondering because I thought maybe I was super lucky for once never having a bad Gottlieb display. Typically my luck isn't that good!

I love the look and color choices with Wayne's displays and Williams & Gottlieb would both be a great idea if possible? Poor Wayne - another project added to the list!

#343 3 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Those are actually WHITE digits being used as WHITE in Centaur. I think the camera just couldn't handle how bright they were and did this blue aura thing Ghostly!

They look great in person

#344 3 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

They look great in person

Oh good. So no sun-glasses needed

#345 3 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Those are actually WHITE digits being used as WHITE in Centaur. I think the camera just couldn't handle how bright they were and did this blue aura thing Ghostly!

Wow, that's crazy!

Is that from a cellphone or a real camera? If it's a real camera, hit the WB button (or menu icon) and set the White Balance on the displays. That way the camera will assume the displays are White and adjust everything else around that color.

-

Here is a pic of the White displays used at the higher brightness, but with the White Balance set on the camera.

6 (resized).jpg

#346 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Wow, that's crazy!
Is that from a cellphone or a real camera?

cell phone.

#347 3 years ago

OK, that explains it......

#348 3 years ago

The white looks good in Centaur, nice job.

#349 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'm back in the States, and soldering up some LED boards.
Tip #1:
Here is a quick tip that every field service tech knows.
If you don't have a component bender in the field, a large pair of Vise-Grips gives you a quick and dirty tool to bend up components against:

Find the groove that is the correct size lengthwise, then make your bends neatly.
Bend up all the resistors at the same time. Don't bend one, install one, bend one.....try to be efficient.
Buy a "Lead Forming Tool" for 99cents on Ebay. You will use it for the rest of your life.

Vid, did you drag those vise grips through the ocean on your way back to the States?

Do you have a link for the lead forming tool? Cheapest I saw was $5.95 (which I'm fine with BTW), but why pay that if you can get it for $.99, right?

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