(Topic ID: 153216)

RETROFIT Classic Bally/Stern DIY Plasma-to-LED Conversion Display Kits


By acebathound

4 years ago



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#601 3 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

On Dec-23-16 at 20:06:07 PST, seller added the following information:
There are 20 6 Digit Displays
There are 22 7 Digit Displays
There are 8 Williams Displays from Black Knight.

Cool. Don't know why I didn't see that when viewed on my phone. I don't like the way Ebay ports their auctions to mobile devices. A few features are missing that I like to use (sort by distance etc.).

#602 3 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Cool. Don't know why I didn't see that when viewed on my phone. I don't like the way Ebay ports their auctions to mobile devices. A few features are missing that I like to use (sort by distance etc.).

I agree, I prefer to view ebay from a browser. The ebay app doesn't even work on my iOS devices.

#603 3 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

There are 20 6 Digit Displays
There are 22 7 Digit Displays
There are 8 Williams Displays from Black Knight.

Completed at $212.50 + $50 shipping which works out to $5.25 per display. Was this anyone here?

#604 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Completed at $212.50 + $50 shipping which works out to $5.25 per display. Was this anyone here?

I was wondering the same thing. I didn't bid figuring I'd just be bidding up the price for someone here. But if they wanted to get some of these displays in the hands of those that could use them for LED conversions, I'd take a set.

#605 3 years ago

Two out of five of my display rebuilds are complete and worked perfectly out of the gate during bench testing.

Just have to add the digits on the remaining three displays to wrap it up!

Can't wait to see them in the game but it was good to see the light (pun intended) at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks Wayne. It is a great kit and very worthwhile project.

Eric

#606 3 years ago

Here are the pictures of white, straw yellow, medium purple and medium red in my Flight 2000. Sorry I-phone takes horrible pictures; colors are really off.

My opinion of how it looks in person. White (no filter) seems too bright as-is. Could use a filter to lower output or different resistor. Straw yellow actually has some green tint which makes it look neon-ish. Purple seems a little too much like a UV light. Red has some magenta in it and I think I like it the best with this backglass.

The blue in little sample filter pack is very nice (maybe for my Globetrotters???). Other filter samples- orange looks like original plasma; and green.

I think I need to move a wire in my player 2,3,4 display connectors. Game originally have these three as Bally displays so I think they moved the 7th digit wire. Player 1 was a Stern display. All of the retrofitted displays are Stern and worked on the bench.

Eric

Edit- note pictures are in reverse order vs as described

F2K LED display mixe (resized).jpg
F2K LED display red (resized).jpg
F2K LED display purple (resized).jpg
F2K LED display yellow (resized).jpg
F2K LED display white (resized).jpg

#607 3 years ago

Yep, move the gray wire from pin 12 in the connector to pin 11 for a Stern 7 digit.

image (resized).jpg

#608 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Yep, move the gray wire from pin 12 in the connector to pin 11 for a Stern 7 digit.

Or solder bridge the two pins together on the display PCB, then it will work with either Bally or Stern.

#609 3 years ago

Considered that dothedoo but wanted to return my wire harness back to original configuration. Pretty easy to pop the pin into the right slot.

Three of the four connectors had been switched to match the Bally displays that were used in there.

#610 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Considered that dothedoo but wanted to return my wire harness back to original configuration. Pretty easy to pop the pin into the right slot.
Three of the four connectors had been switched to match the Bally displays that were used in there.

Oh, thought you were doing just the opposite. Carry on

#611 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Here are the pictures of white, straw yellow, medium purple and medium red in my Flight 2000. Sorry I-phone takes horrible pictures; colors are really off.

Thanks Eric! Just got these added to the gallery, that'll get you 4x entries in the January contest

My phone takes really bad pictures too. I've tried a number of cameras and settings, but the only way I've found of getting fairly accurate saturated pictures of these displays is with a DSLR with a ton of playing around with shutter/aperture/iso. Part of the problem is the multiplexing of the displays I think. The camera is taking a picture of what it sees which is different than what the human eye sees. Adjusting the shutter speed down helps get closer to what the human eye sees, but then it's difficult capturing all the numbers lit up since the camera is faster than the multiplexing. Sweet spot would be just fast enough to capture a more saturated image, but slower than the multiplexing of 54 times per second per display. If I ever figure out a combination that works for DSLRs pretty well I'll post something here.. up until now it's just been a ton of noodling around for a few of the pictures on the product page.

For sure many of the WHITE + filter pictures are actually more saturated in-person than what they look like on the gallery The native BLUE LED digits I think are fairly accurate.. mainly because those are a bit brighter than WHITE + filter, so the multiplexing doesn't cause them to look as faded.

2 weeks later
#612 3 years ago

Big thanks to emsrph !!!

DA-300C Depopulation pic:

#613 3 years ago

Really enjoyed the LED conversion. That was the most desoldering/soldering I've done in a while. Need to find another project!

Trying to move the original working 6 and 7 digit plasma displays at $25 each...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-7-digit-displays-4-stern-6-digit-display

Thanks,
Eric

#614 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Trying to move the original working 6 and 7 digit plasma displays at $25 each...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-7-digit-displays-4-stern-6-digit-display
Thanks,
Eric

Those are still around? Geez, that's a really good price on 7-digit displays. Would have never expected them to have stuck around this long.

#615 3 years ago

Just a reminder, last week or so for new entries in the RETROFIT Gallery Contest for January where you can win a free nvram if you've built out any sets of these displays.

List of entrants for each month is over @ http://www.pinitech.com/retrofit/gallery/ -- just 4x entries for January so far from a single person and that's it. So looks like odds will stay good on these contests for a bit. I'll continue to run a contest each month through April and take it from there!

#616 3 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Those are still around?

Yeah, who would have thunk it?

Put them up on eBay this morning for a little bit more to cover fees. Haven't sold on there for awhile. Can't believe it's up to 10% plus add on PayPal also. Sheesh.

#617 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Yeah, who would have thunk it?
Put them up on eBay this morning for a little bit more to cover fees. Haven't sold on there for awhile. Can't believe it's up to 10% plus add on PayPal also. Sheesh.

Is it just the glasses, or the complete display? I need some glasses.

#618 3 years ago

Here's stern galaxy with blue filters. I think it looks awesome

IMAG2122 (resized).jpg

#619 3 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Is it just the glasses, or the complete display? I need some glasses.

Complete working displays.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/43541

#620 3 years ago

Displays are now spoken for. Thx

I do have the old glasses from before the conversions. coyote if you're interested shot me a PM and we'll discuss

Eric

image (resized).jpg

#621 3 years ago

I've decided to price AMBER SETS a bit lower starting now through end of February to stir up some interest.

$79.95ea for 6-digit sets (converts 5x 6-digit displays)
$89.95ea for 7-digit sets (converts 4x 7-digit displays, 1x 6-digit display)

If you've got some old non-working display boards kicking around, a bit of time and effort & you can upgrade an entire set of original non-working plasma displays to LED for not much more than what a few of the cheaper displays cost.

Available @ http://www.pinitech.com/products/ballystern_conversion_led_display.php

#622 3 years ago

(edit: sold)

I had a few displays with broken glass, so here are some 6-digit & 7-digit Bally display PCBs:

Archived after 0 days
32 views
Sold (amount undisclosed)
Contributed to Pinside
Parts - For Sale
Used, good condition “Here are four Bally 6-digit display PCBs. These came from a lot of displays that mostly tested good (most problems were just bad segment transistors), so I would anticipate that t...”
2017-01-29
Ballston Spa, NY
30
Archived after 0 days
48 views
Sold (amount undisclosed)
Contributed to Pinside
Parts - For Sale
Used, good condition “Here are four Bally 7-digit display PCBs. These came from a lot of displays that mostly tested good (most problems were just bad segment transistors), so I would anticipate that t...”
2017-01-29
Ballston Spa, NY
30

#623 3 years ago

How about adding polarised (neutral) filters?
I've have a few of these filters for the DMD to avoid refections on the playfield glass.
I don't know if this will also work on led's, but I think it will.
It can also give the white led's a bit of reduction.

#624 3 years ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

How about adding polarised (neutral) filters?
I've have a few of these filters for the DMD to avoid refections on the playfield glass.
I don't know if this will also work on led's, but I think it will.
It can also give the white led's a bit of reduction.

Yep, I offer a neutral filter as an option for the WHITE sets, mainly for when using them as WHITE, but those could be used to dim any color.

#625 3 years ago

Last day for the January RETROFIT GALLERY contest tomorrow.

Only a few entries again this month so good odds again

#626 3 years ago

And January's RETROFIT GALLERY CONTEST winner is...

januarywinner (resized).jpg

Congrats! Let me know what type of nvram you'd like via PM!

Kind of funny, I went to pick the name myself this afternoon and picked "Cheddar", but then figured since my wife has picked all the winners for contests I better let her pick. She also picked "Cheddar"

#627 3 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

And January's RETROFIT GALLERY CONTEST winner is...

Congrats! Let me know what type of nvram you'd like via PM!
Kind of funny, I went to pick the name myself this afternoon and picked "Cheddar", but then figured since my wife has picked all the winners for contests I better let her pick. She also picked "Cheddar"

Who wouldn't?

1 week later
#628 3 years ago

A few more kits have gone out this month. Hopefully get to see some more in-machine pictures for the gallery soon!

I still have yet to get around to getting pictures of the parallel resistor way of modifying the displays. I'm hoping to get to that in a week or two now that I can access the shuffle alley the displays are in pretty easily after some machines have left the basement Sorry it's taken so long -- been a crazy couple of months!

#629 3 years ago

I should be able to get some pictures of my Lost World up late this week.

#630 3 years ago

Parallel Resistor locations on an BALLY AS-2518-21 6-DIGIT Displays

This is just to show the locations of the resistors being soldered in parallel.

as2518-21_back.jpg

Front-side of the BALLY AS-2518-21:

as2518-21_front.jpg

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#631 3 years ago

Parallel Resistor locations on the BALLY AS-2518-15 6-DIGIT Displays (and also early STERN "curvy trace" DA-100 boards)

The traces on the early DA-100 boards are curvy instead of straight lines but the component pads are the same so the AS-2518-15 pictures can be used.

AS2518-15_back.jpg

Front-side of the AS-2518-15:

AS2518-15_front.jpg


And here's the early STERN DA-100 "curvy trace" display with the modifications (notice resistors are at the same locations):
earlyDA100_back.jpg

Front-side of the STERN DA-100 "curvy trace" display:
earlyDA100_front.jpg

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#632 3 years ago

Parallel Resistor locations on one of the later Stern DA-100 6-DIGIT Displays (A434, REV J) dated 1979. Believe these were the late DA-100 boards. There are some "REV B" and "REV C" marked boards that have a slightly different component layout that fell between this board and the curvy trace board. I'll get some pictures of the parallel resistor locations on those soon as well.

da100_back.jpg

Front-side of Stern DA-100:
da100_front.jpg

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#633 3 years ago

Parallel Resistor locations on the STERN DA-100 REV B and REV C 6-DIGIT Displays. As mentioned in the previous post, these I think were in-between the early curvy trace boards & the later "REV J" boards. This one I need to verify later today once I get the rest of it assembled & will update this post once it checks out.

That *should* I think complete all the 6-DIGIT display versions out there, but if I've missed one let me know. I'll go through my box of boards just to verify my own stash isn't hiding another version. Luckily the 7-DIGIT boards should have fewer revisions.

REVC_DA100_back.jpg

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#634 3 years ago

Parallel Resistor locations on the BALLY AS-2518-58 7-DIGIT Displays

Note, this is a WHITE display so the brightness resistor value is different.

AS2518-58_back.jpg

Front-side of the BALLY AS-2518-58:
AS2518-58_front.jpg

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#635 3 years ago

And finally, the conclusion to the parallel resistor pictures Unless I find any other different ones when I sort through my display boxes again.

Parallel Resistor locations on the STERN DA-300 7-DIGIT Displays

Note, this is a WHITE display so the brightness resistor value is different.

DA300_back.jpg

Front-side of the STERN DA-300:
DA300_front.jpg

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#636 3 years ago

Why are you using parallel resistors?
Why not just replace the old ones?
Am I missing something?

#637 3 years ago

Very nice work Wayne, you confirm how precise and accurate you are in your work, congratz!

Quoted from Inkochnito:

Why are you using parallel resistors?
Why not just replace the old ones?
Am I missing something?

I maybe can answer for him, parallel gets to almost the same values as directly replacing them but saves you quite lot of time in removing them. You don't need to desolder, just solder on the bottom and you get the same result. Very clever and clean I must admit

#638 3 years ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Why are you using parallel resistors?
Why not just replace the old ones?
Am I missing something?

Presented as an alternate method of converting the displays. Same set of resistors from the kit can be used to either fully replace those components if you have great desoldering equipment -- or you can solder them in-parallel on the back of the board. The advantage is that on some single-sided boards where pads can lift easily, the original resistors left on the board act as a heat-sink when soldering (so the heat is distributed elsewhere than just the pad) and the pads are more likely to survive. Different method of getting the resistor values where they need to be, same result.. and probably quicker or more approachable for some people.

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#639 3 years ago
Quoted from gianfri:

Very clever and clean I must admit

I don't know if I'd go as far to call them all "clean" hehe These are the original set of displays I did for the shuffle alley I have, some were done a bit quick-and-dirty just to prove the concept. If you take some care, you can get components lined up nicely and decent solder joints.

Early Stern DA-100 and Bally AS-2518-15 boards often had the 2.2k digit-driver pull-up resistors soldered in-parallel on the back of the board. Either as a factory modification or recommended modification that made it into later revisions of the boards. That was part of the reason I figured it's no big-deal to solder resistors in-parallel. I saw no downsides, you gain higher wattage rating (not really needed, but it's a gain) and once installed in a game the displays look every bit as good.

I had actually thought this would be the go-to way of getting the resistor values changed, much more approachable for someone with limited desoldering/soldering tools and saves quite a bit of time. With the resistors on the tape, if you cut the leads on one side short you just hold the tape in your hand, solder at the top solder point on each resistor being replaced, pull down on the tape to release the resistor, then move onto the next resistor of that value. Then just align the longer lead vertically with the solder pad beneath it, press down on the lead to get it flush with the bottom solder joint.... solder and snip them all. It goes pretty fast IMO. Of course, it does help to have a picture of an already-modified display to model off of otherwise it's a chore to find the pad locations and flip the board back and forth.

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#640 3 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Of course, it does help to have a picture of an already-modified display to model off of otherwise it's a chore to find the pad locations and flip the board back and forth.

Right, but still a good option for unexperienced people with no desoldering tools.

I don't have the pictures with me but I would show you one ZAC modified board of a customer of mine, a total desaster with missing pads everywhere, the paraller solution can be helpful to avoid this

#641 2 years ago
Quoted from gianfri:

Right, but still a good option for unexperienced people with no desoldering tools.
I don't have the pictures with me but I would show you one ZAC modified board of a customer of mine, a total desaster with missing pads everywhere, the paraller solution can be helpful to avoid this

Right, it happens. Some of the old boards put up with a lot of abuse & some of them the solder pads practically fall off if you just look at them wrong. It's easy to understand why on those problematic boards, the pads don't suffer the same fate with the parallel resistor method since the factory resistor takes the heat instead of it all going to a single pad on a single-sided board. I'm a fan of the method myself. Most of what I've converted for displays has been with that method and I'd recommend it on the single-sided boards (traces only on one side), especially for anyone having problems with pads lifting on those boards. To each their own though

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1 week later
#642 2 years ago

Completed a 6 digit set for a friend and here's a pic of it in Bally Space Invaders. Looks great!
SpaceInvaders (resized).jpg
I am working on a 7 digit set to upgrade a Bally Viking. I plan to do it in purple! I'll post pics when it's done.

#643 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

Completed a 6 digit set for a friend and here's a pic of it in Ball Space Invaders.

Looks nice! Are those staying WHITE then? White looks decent on its own in a lot of machines.

Quoted from Cheddar:

I am working on a 7 digit set to upgrade a Bally Viking. I plan to do it in purple! I'll post pics when it's done.

Oh purple will be awesome, definitely get some pictures! Lacking a ton of color options in the RETROFIT GALLERY. Thanks for submitting some photos and helping to fill it up

#644 2 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Looks nice! Are those staying WHITE then? White looks decent on its own in a lot of machines.

I gave him a set of neutral filters but he likes this better. I haven't been able to put the filters on centaur either. The white just POPS!

Quoted from acebathound:

Oh purple will be awesome, definitely get some pictures! Lacking a ton of color options in the RETROFIT GALLERY. Thanks for submitting some photos and helping to fill it up

Purple and a 7 digit conversion. I am looking forward to it. I even had a little pcb printed for the conversion (based on a pinball4u design), so it's been a cool experience!

1 week later
#645 2 years ago

Still only 1x entry in the March contest to win a free nvram module. Just need to post a photo of your complete set of displays lit up (attract mode is fine) with backglass installed. Can be a zoomed in picture of the backglass if you don't want anything else in your collection/room showing. You can move displays around to different games and gain more entries into the contest.

WINNER SELECTED 1ST WEEK IN APRIL!

At this point I'm not sure if I should continue the contest after March? I planned to keep it going at least the first quarter of the year... maybe through the first half of the year, but expected to be seeing more photos posted. Seems more were posted when there wasn't a contest going on Not sure how that adds up lol.

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#646 2 years ago

Sneak peek of some development of a full display kit. Had the prototype boards in since last October, went to build them & realized a few DIP18 footprints were done as DIP20. Oops. That held things up a bit as the project was shelved for other priorities and I had to come back to it in February to see what traces I could cut and how to rewire with minimal modifications. Really didn't feel like doing another run of prototype boards just to fix that!

proto (resized).jpg

I left multiple ways to do the source driver section, to play around on this prototype -- an IC, or transistors/mosfets with resistors. So either an IC footprint wouldn't get populated or a bunch of transistor/resistor footprints wouldn't get populated depending how it's built-out. I'm half-tempted to leave it flexible, at least for the first revision, if everything fits. It's going to depend how the new source driver IC I'm attempting to use works out. I doubt there will be too much interest in building with a few handfuls of discrete components if there's a way to take care of it with less components. I'll be playing around with some dimming circuits, though that may not make the first revision of boards -- or be left as a small add-on board.

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#647 2 years ago

Combined the parallel resistor pictures into a PDF:
http://www.pinitech.com/docs/ballystern_retrofit_parallel.pdf

I'd like to do the same type of thing for the depopulation pictures, so any help there with pictures of depopulated boards is welcome. Basically need a clear top-down picture without any flash in it per each model display. I'll then write in component values and have something similar to what VID posted here for each model display: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/interest-check-diy-bally-led-displays-using-old-boards/page/9#post-3352176 & get them all in a PDF like above.

I doubt I'll get to it myself until later this year, but I do think having an organized PDF with depopulation pictures per model with the component values written in would make it super-easy to identify location of components that are getting changed out.

Worst case I'll just black-and-white fully populated displays and write the component value on top

---
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#648 2 years ago

For right now I combined the depopulated board images from this thread into a document. Did some lens correction in Photoshop for half of them so they were less distorted. Looks like I'm just missing AS2518-58 and the other version of the DA100 board (that *does not* have the 6 wire jumpers above the 4543).

Depopulation Photo PDF:
http://www.pinitech.com/docs/ballystern_retrofit_depopulation.pdf

I have additional boards of all of these models, so I'll depopulate a 7-digit AS2518-58 and the missing version of the DA100 and get those added to the doc. At some point later this year will try and standardize the pictures a bit more and possibly add component values in there as well.

---
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NVRAM, kits, upgrades and test equipment for pinball machines

#649 2 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

I may have a couple for you, shimoda, maybe in Feb/March, if you cna wait that long. (I'm making a PCB of my own to replace my stern DA-300 boards to enable the comma *properly* (read: proper number format, not what Bally does in theirs..) in a Babcock glass. Once I get my boards made and glasses transferred over, I'll have four of them I won't need.

any chance you finished?

#650 2 years ago

What else would be needed to take a 6-digit Stern or Bally donor board along with a Pinitech 7-digit kit and make a 7-digit display? I might not have enough 7-digit donor boards to complete my conversion of four 7-digit displays, but if 6 digit donor boards could be used...

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