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(Topic ID: 251023)

Installing NVRAM chip...


By jimgravina

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    Clamping (resized).jpg
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    #1 1 year ago

    Just wondering if this can be done while the board is still in the machine...or if I should remove the board completely to install the chip.

    Thanks!
    Jim

    #2 1 year ago

    If it's a Data East machine (90's era) it shouldn't be a problem - they are already socketed for the chip - just remove the old chip and replace it with the NVRAM. I did that with my Jurassic Park without any issues. For the Bally Williams machines you will need to desolder the existing chip and either solder in a socket for the NVRAM (best option) or solder in the NVRAM (worst option). That's your Addam's Family through to WPC'95 machines. Either way you'll need to pull the board for that one. What machine do you have? I'm sure someone smarter than me would be able to answer you better if they knew what the machine was as it varies depending on model.

    #3 1 year ago

    DE/Sega/Stern Whitestar and old Bally Solid State games are plug and plug. Others are not.

    What game(s) do you have needing NVRAM?

    chrishibler could install any you need help with.

    #5 1 year ago

    A word of advice on Data East- Leave the batteries in, swap the chip, boot the machine, shut down the machine and then pull the batteries.

    On my Time Machine it would not work correct till I took the step of leaving the batteries in for the first boot. After that it was fine.

    #6 1 year ago

    What about the early solid state Bally and Sterns (78-84) 5101 nvrams?

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    What about the early solid state Bally and Sterns (78-84) 5101 nvrams?

    Bally/Stern games have an IC socket for the U8 5101 RAM chip. MPU200 games need two or a specialized module that plugs into both U8 and U13

    Quoted from gdonovan:

    A word of advice on Data East- Leave the batteries in, swap the chip, boot the machine, shut down the machine and then pull the batteries.
    On my Time Machine it would not work correct till I took the step of leaving the batteries in for the first boot. After that it was fine.

    Data East games have memory protection on the coin door. Normally you just need to remove batteries, install the nvram module, open the coin door, and then power cycle twice. Then it should revert to factory default settings then you can setup the audits/adjustments to your liking.

    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    Data East games have memory protection on the coin door. Normally you just need to remove batteries, install the nvram module, open the coin door, and then power cycle twice. Then it should revert to factory default settings then you can setup the audits/adjustments to your liking.

    Nope, mine was a bear. Tried several times.

    Left the batteries in for first boot and bam, worked like a champ ever since.

    Just figured I'd throw that out there in case someone else had the same odd issue.

    #9 1 year ago

    Even if socketed it might be easier to pull the board. Very easy to bend a leg on a chip if you don't have full access to the socket where you can see it clearly.

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Nope, mine was a bear. Tried several times.
    Left the batteries in for first boot and bam, worked like a champ ever since.
    Just figured I'd throw that out there in case someone else had the same odd issue.

    Odd issue I have never heard of. Really should not matter batteries in or out because there is a low v drop diode powering the ram off of the +5v. I wonder of D23 is open or has a high voltage drop? A FM16W08 (w for wide voltage range) will work down to 3.3vdc but a FM1608 is 4.75v so it would be less tolerant to low voltage. I guess if its working now I wouldnt mess with it.

    There is an weird thing with these NVRAMs where they can work or mostly work even if the Vcc pin is not powered. Its like it can suck off power from the address or data pins enough to do read and writes.
    Untitled (resized).png

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    Odd issue I have never heard of. Really should not matter batteries in or out because there is a low v drop diode powering the ram off of the +5v.

    You would think but the machine would not even boot up correct with the NVRAM in place and no batteries. Had a flashing PIA LED light, displays were doing all sorts of strange stuff.

    Guys were telling me "it takes 2 or 3 tries to catch" and it never did. Almost returned the NVRAM (which was from another vendor) and decided to try it with the batteries in. Glad I did!

    #12 1 year ago

    I'll be installing to a Stern Sopranos this week. Hope it's just a Chip pull and NVRAM replace.

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    There is an weird thing with these NVRAMs where they can work or mostly work even if the Vcc pin is not powered. Its like it can suck off power from the address or data pins enough to do read and writes.
    [quoted image]

    It does - but you can't rely on this method to provide reliable power.
    Many devices such as these have clamping diodes on the inputs. This shunts input voltages higher than Vcc to the internal Vcc -- essentially providing some power to the device. Second diode clamps voltages less than zero to ground. Attd image shows how this works (image shown for 3.3V part but same principle for 5V part). These are intended to clamp small spikes often seen during switching between high & low, they are pretty wimpy diodes and it doesn't take much to destroy them.

    Clamping (resized).jpg
    #14 1 year ago

    Anyone happen to have a link to the proper socket and NVRAM chip for WPC89 to 95 in their "knowledge base"?

    I have a Hakko desoldering gun, and I'd like to install NVRAM in AFM, TAF, JM, CFTBL, and TS when I return from my deployment.

    Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

    #15 1 year ago

    system 11's are not socketed, so you have to install a socket.

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    Anyone happen to have a link to the proper socket and NVRAM chip for WPC89 to 95 in their "knowledge base"?

    https://nvram.weebly.com/

    #17 1 year ago

    Thank you! If I have any other questions, I'll pipe up again : )!

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from Spiderpin:

    I'll be installing to a Stern Sopranos this week. Hope it's just a Chip pull and NVRAM replace.

    No issue there with the 6264 NVRAM plug and play.

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    Anyone happen to have a link to the proper socket and NVRAM chip for WPC89 to 95 in their "knowledge base"?
    I have a Hakko desoldering gun, and I'd like to install NVRAM in AFM, TAF, JM, CFTBL, and TS when I return from my deployment.
    Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

    6264

    #21 1 year ago

    Thanks everyone! I’ll be doing this later tonight if I have time. I have the chip just sitting here but didn’t know if it’s easy enough to just pull the old and put the new in while still mounted in the back box.

    I saw one guy on YouTube had to solder in a jumper wire near the battery connection? Only time I heard of or saw that....

    Jim

    #22 1 year ago

    Yes. It is that easy for BTTF. Don't even need to remove the board. Is that what you are doing? You never stated.

    What game was the guy upgrading?

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    It does - but you can't rely on this method to provide reliable power.
    Many devices such as these have clamping diodes on the inputs. This shunts input voltages higher than Vcc to the internal Vcc -- essentially providing some power to the device. Second diode clamps voltages less than zero to ground. Attd image shows how this works (image shown for 3.3V part but same principle for 5V part). These are intended to clamp small spikes often seen during switching between high & low, they are pretty wimpy diodes and it doesn't take much to destroy them.[quoted image]

    interesting. I guess its possible with a blown open battery blocking diode it could work until a bunch of zeros appear on the data bus at low enough address that the Vcc through clamp diodes drops under the threshold. Having batteries in until the RAM is initialized and a FF fill cleared and then there is enough power to work.

    #24 1 year ago

    It Works!

    Just installed the NVRAM chip in my BTTF game. As simple as it said it would be. Removed batteries...removed old chip...installed new. Changed some game settings, powered off, powered back on...all settings saved!

    Thanks!
    Jim

    #25 1 year ago

    Thinking of doing this on my Getaway but it seems like a PITA. I can solder fairly well but don't look forward to doing it on my board. How much does it cost to have it sent in for someone to solder on a socket.

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

    Thinking of doing this on my Getaway but it seems like a PITA. I can solder fairly well but don't look forward to doing it on my board. How much does it cost to have it sent in for someone to solder on a socket.

    Price depends on who does it. Many folks can do it for you. Since you are at an unknown location, hard to know who you should send it to.

    Rob Anthony will install it for you if you bring the board with you and purchase the NVRAM from him at that show.

    chrishibler will be happy to quote you if you have to send it off to be done.

    I do free installs of NVRAM for games I service around Houston.

    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    Price depends on who does it. Many folks can do it for you. Since you are at an unknown location, hard to know who you should send it to.
    Rob Anthony will install it for you if you bring the board with you and purchase the NVRAM from him at that show.
    chrishibler will be happy to quote you if you have to send it off to be done.
    I do free installs of NVRAM for games I service around Houston.

    Thank you. In South MS. Not too many guys around here that I know of.

    3 months later
    #28 10 months ago

    So I'm really wanting to install the NVRAM chip in a Stern Elvis machine, but I'm a total noob to this idea. I understand that Elvis takes the 6264 chip and I see on a pinside site the implication that I would possibly have to pull one chip and swap in the 6264. I can pull or install a chip just fine--I've done so on sound boards--but I'm left with several questions.

    (1) Is this a true chip swap or is the 6264 to be installed into an open socket?
    (2) The manual shows a chip U212 with the number 6264\MS62256 on the CPU/sound board located right next to the batteries. Assuming this is a chip swap, is this the chip that I pull?
    (3) Does orientation of the new NVRAM chip matter (i.e., is there a top/bottom or left/right), or can it be installed without concern for orientation?
    (4) Once the chip is installed, should I just remove the AA batteries and leave the empty case in place?

    I could really use some help on this one. I'm sure it's ultimately a simple thing to do but I've been known to do simple things wrong before.

    Thanks for any help you can provide.

    #29 10 months ago
    Quoted from JOESCHALL:

    (1) Is this a true chip swap or is the 6264 to be installed into an open socket?

    It's a true swap -- remove 6264 RAM and install the NVRAM in its place.

    Quoted from JOESCHALL:

    (2) The manual shows a chip U212 with the number 6264\MS62256 on the CPU/sound board located right next to the batteries. Assuming this is a chip swap, is this the chip that I pull?

    Yep, that's the chip. 6264 RAM is at position U212 (see diagram @ https://www.pinitech.com/product_images/ram_locations/ramloc_whitestar.jpg).

    Quoted from JOESCHALL:

    (3) Does orientation of the new NVRAM chip matter (i.e., is there a top/bottom or left/right), or can it be installed without concern for orientation?

    Orientation is critical. Make sure you pay attention to how the notch is oriented on the original RAM before you take it out. It should be facing down on your MPU, but just verify that. Then match the notch the same way on the NVRAM. Most NVRAM is going to have a notch designation (silkscreen or physical notch) or at least a pin #1 marking on it. Definitely worth verifying if you're unsure because if you power on with it in backwards it'll blow the chip immediately. So if in-doubt, post a picture to verify

    Quoted from JOESCHALL:

    (4) Once the chip is installed, should I just remove the AA batteries and leave the empty case in place?

    Remove the batteries for sure. Some people remove the battery holder, but not necessary unless there was battery leakage that happened and needs to be cleaned up. If no battery damage you can leave it as-is, or some people add a note/label that nvram is installed and no batteries are needed (especially if machine is being sold).

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
    NVRAM, Bally/Stern LED Displays & Mods for pinball machines

    #30 10 months ago

    That's at least four thank you's I owe you.

    #31 10 months ago

    I remove the battery holder to keep any future owner from installing batteries. Why? Because it is highly likely alkaline batteries will get installed and then back to it being pointless having NVRAM installed.

    Any IC must be oriented a certain direction. NVRAM is considered an IC because of the type of package it is.

    #32 10 months ago

    Let me caution the folks who may not be very proficient with a soldering iron that this is in no way an easy mod...if you've never socketed a chip before there's a good chance you will damage an eyelet, which will require you to send your board out for repair. BE WARNED

    #33 10 months ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Let me caution the folks who may not be very proficient with a soldering iron that this is in no way an easy mod...if you've never socketed a chip before there's a good chance you will damage an eyelet, which will require you to send your board out for repair. BE WARNED

    Except in games like Elvis (and most Data East games) where the RAM is already socketed so pulling the original and installing NVRAM is quite easy.

    #34 10 months ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    Except in games like Elvis (and most Data East games) where the RAM is already socketed so pulling the original and installing NVRAM is quite easy.

    Actually, all DE, Sega, and Stern Whitestar along with all old Bally Solid State games are all socketed and some or all of early Stern solid state games.

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