(Topic ID: 251023)

Installing NVRAM chip...

By jimgravina

4 years ago


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  • 44 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 86 days ago by andylama
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

Just wondering if this can be done while the board is still in the machine...or if I should remove the board completely to install the chip.

Thanks!
Jim

#2 4 years ago

If it's a Data East machine (90's era) it shouldn't be a problem - they are already socketed for the chip - just remove the old chip and replace it with the NVRAM. I did that with my Jurassic Park without any issues. For the Bally Williams machines you will need to desolder the existing chip and either solder in a socket for the NVRAM (best option) or solder in the NVRAM (worst option). That's your Addam's Family through to WPC'95 machines. Either way you'll need to pull the board for that one. What machine do you have? I'm sure someone smarter than me would be able to answer you better if they knew what the machine was as it varies depending on model.

#3 4 years ago

DE/Sega/Stern Whitestar and old Bally Solid State games are plug and plug. Others are not.

What game(s) do you have needing NVRAM?

ChrisHibler could install any you need help with.

#5 4 years ago

A word of advice on Data East- Leave the batteries in, swap the chip, boot the machine, shut down the machine and then pull the batteries.

On my Time Machine it would not work correct till I took the step of leaving the batteries in for the first boot. After that it was fine.

#6 4 years ago

What about the early solid state Bally and Sterns (78-84) 5101 nvrams?

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from bluespin:

What about the early solid state Bally and Sterns (78-84) 5101 nvrams?

Bally/Stern games have an IC socket for the U8 5101 RAM chip. MPU200 games need two or a specialized module that plugs into both U8 and U13

Quoted from gdonovan:

A word of advice on Data East- Leave the batteries in, swap the chip, boot the machine, shut down the machine and then pull the batteries.
On my Time Machine it would not work correct till I took the step of leaving the batteries in for the first boot. After that it was fine.

Data East games have memory protection on the coin door. Normally you just need to remove batteries, install the nvram module, open the coin door, and then power cycle twice. Then it should revert to factory default settings then you can setup the audits/adjustments to your liking.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Data East games have memory protection on the coin door. Normally you just need to remove batteries, install the nvram module, open the coin door, and then power cycle twice. Then it should revert to factory default settings then you can setup the audits/adjustments to your liking.

Nope, mine was a bear. Tried several times.

Left the batteries in for first boot and bam, worked like a champ ever since.

Just figured I'd throw that out there in case someone else had the same odd issue.

#9 4 years ago

Even if socketed it might be easier to pull the board. Very easy to bend a leg on a chip if you don't have full access to the socket where you can see it clearly.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Nope, mine was a bear. Tried several times.
Left the batteries in for first boot and bam, worked like a champ ever since.
Just figured I'd throw that out there in case someone else had the same odd issue.

Odd issue I have never heard of. Really should not matter batteries in or out because there is a low v drop diode powering the ram off of the +5v. I wonder of D23 is open or has a high voltage drop? A FM16W08 (w for wide voltage range) will work down to 3.3vdc but a FM1608 is 4.75v so it would be less tolerant to low voltage. I guess if its working now I wouldnt mess with it.

There is an weird thing with these NVRAMs where they can work or mostly work even if the Vcc pin is not powered. Its like it can suck off power from the address or data pins enough to do read and writes.
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#11 4 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Odd issue I have never heard of. Really should not matter batteries in or out because there is a low v drop diode powering the ram off of the +5v.

You would think but the machine would not even boot up correct with the NVRAM in place and no batteries. Had a flashing PIA LED light, displays were doing all sorts of strange stuff.

Guys were telling me "it takes 2 or 3 tries to catch" and it never did. Almost returned the NVRAM (which was from another vendor) and decided to try it with the batteries in. Glad I did!

#12 4 years ago

I'll be installing to a Stern Sopranos this week. Hope it's just a Chip pull and NVRAM replace.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

There is an weird thing with these NVRAMs where they can work or mostly work even if the Vcc pin is not powered. Its like it can suck off power from the address or data pins enough to do read and writes.
[quoted image]

It does - but you can't rely on this method to provide reliable power.
Many devices such as these have clamping diodes on the inputs. This shunts input voltages higher than Vcc to the internal Vcc -- essentially providing some power to the device. Second diode clamps voltages less than zero to ground. Attd image shows how this works (image shown for 3.3V part but same principle for 5V part). These are intended to clamp small spikes often seen during switching between high & low, they are pretty wimpy diodes and it doesn't take much to destroy them.

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#14 4 years ago

Anyone happen to have a link to the proper socket and NVRAM chip for WPC89 to 95 in their "knowledge base"?

I have a Hakko desoldering gun, and I'd like to install NVRAM in AFM, TAF, JM, CFTBL, and TS when I return from my deployment.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

#15 4 years ago

system 11's are not socketed, so you have to install a socket.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Anyone happen to have a link to the proper socket and NVRAM chip for WPC89 to 95 in their "knowledge base"?

https://nvram.weebly.com/

#17 4 years ago

Thank you! If I have any other questions, I'll pipe up again : )!

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Spiderpin:

I'll be installing to a Stern Sopranos this week. Hope it's just a Chip pull and NVRAM replace.

No issue there with the 6264 NVRAM plug and play.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Anyone happen to have a link to the proper socket and NVRAM chip for WPC89 to 95 in their "knowledge base"?
I have a Hakko desoldering gun, and I'd like to install NVRAM in AFM, TAF, JM, CFTBL, and TS when I return from my deployment.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

6264

#21 4 years ago

Thanks everyone! I’ll be doing this later tonight if I have time. I have the chip just sitting here but didn’t know if it’s easy enough to just pull the old and put the new in while still mounted in the back box.

I saw one guy on YouTube had to solder in a jumper wire near the battery connection? Only time I heard of or saw that....

Jim

#22 4 years ago

Yes. It is that easy for BTTF. Don't even need to remove the board. Is that what you are doing? You never stated.

What game was the guy upgrading?

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

It does - but you can't rely on this method to provide reliable power.
Many devices such as these have clamping diodes on the inputs. This shunts input voltages higher than Vcc to the internal Vcc -- essentially providing some power to the device. Second diode clamps voltages less than zero to ground. Attd image shows how this works (image shown for 3.3V part but same principle for 5V part). These are intended to clamp small spikes often seen during switching between high & low, they are pretty wimpy diodes and it doesn't take much to destroy them.[quoted image]

interesting. I guess its possible with a blown open battery blocking diode it could work until a bunch of zeros appear on the data bus at low enough address that the Vcc through clamp diodes drops under the threshold. Having batteries in until the RAM is initialized and a FF fill cleared and then there is enough power to work.

#24 4 years ago

It Works!

Just installed the NVRAM chip in my BTTF game. As simple as it said it would be. Removed batteries...removed old chip...installed new. Changed some game settings, powered off, powered back on...all settings saved!

Thanks!
Jim

#25 4 years ago

Thinking of doing this on my Getaway but it seems like a PITA. I can solder fairly well but don't look forward to doing it on my board. How much does it cost to have it sent in for someone to solder on a socket.

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from FlippinJimmy:

Thinking of doing this on my Getaway but it seems like a PITA. I can solder fairly well but don't look forward to doing it on my board. How much does it cost to have it sent in for someone to solder on a socket.

Price depends on who does it. Many folks can do it for you. Since you are at an unknown location, hard to know who you should send it to.

Rob Anthony will install it for you if you bring the board with you and purchase the NVRAM from him at that show.

ChrisHibler will be happy to quote you if you have to send it off to be done.

I do free installs of NVRAM for games I service around Houston.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Price depends on who does it. Many folks can do it for you. Since you are at an unknown location, hard to know who you should send it to.
Rob Anthony will install it for you if you bring the board with you and purchase the NVRAM from him at that show.
chrishibler will be happy to quote you if you have to send it off to be done.
I do free installs of NVRAM for games I service around Houston.

Thank you. In South MS. Not too many guys around here that I know of.

3 months later
#28 4 years ago

So I'm really wanting to install the NVRAM chip in a Stern Elvis machine, but I'm a total noob to this idea. I understand that Elvis takes the 6264 chip and I see on a pinside site the implication that I would possibly have to pull one chip and swap in the 6264. I can pull or install a chip just fine--I've done so on sound boards--but I'm left with several questions.

(1) Is this a true chip swap or is the 6264 to be installed into an open socket?
(2) The manual shows a chip U212 with the number 6264\MS62256 on the CPU/sound board located right next to the batteries. Assuming this is a chip swap, is this the chip that I pull?
(3) Does orientation of the new NVRAM chip matter (i.e., is there a top/bottom or left/right), or can it be installed without concern for orientation?
(4) Once the chip is installed, should I just remove the AA batteries and leave the empty case in place?

I could really use some help on this one. I'm sure it's ultimately a simple thing to do but I've been known to do simple things wrong before.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from JOESCHALL:

(1) Is this a true chip swap or is the 6264 to be installed into an open socket?

It's a true swap -- remove 6264 RAM and install the NVRAM in its place.

Quoted from JOESCHALL:

(2) The manual shows a chip U212 with the number 6264\MS62256 on the CPU/sound board located right next to the batteries. Assuming this is a chip swap, is this the chip that I pull?

Yep, that's the chip. 6264 RAM is at position U212 (see diagram @ https://www.pinitech.com/product_images/ram_locations/ramloc_whitestar.jpg).

Quoted from JOESCHALL:

(3) Does orientation of the new NVRAM chip matter (i.e., is there a top/bottom or left/right), or can it be installed without concern for orientation?

Orientation is critical. Make sure you pay attention to how the notch is oriented on the original RAM before you take it out. It should be facing down on your MPU, but just verify that. Then match the notch the same way on the NVRAM. Most NVRAM is going to have a notch designation (silkscreen or physical notch) or at least a pin #1 marking on it. Definitely worth verifying if you're unsure because if you power on with it in backwards it'll blow the chip immediately. So if in-doubt, post a picture to verify

Quoted from JOESCHALL:

(4) Once the chip is installed, should I just remove the AA batteries and leave the empty case in place?

Remove the batteries for sure. Some people remove the battery holder, but not necessary unless there was battery leakage that happened and needs to be cleaned up. If no battery damage you can leave it as-is, or some people add a note/label that nvram is installed and no batteries are needed (especially if machine is being sold).

---
http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
NVRAM, Bally/Stern LED Displays & Mods for pinball machines

#30 4 years ago

That's at least four thank you's I owe you.

#31 4 years ago

I remove the battery holder to keep any future owner from installing batteries. Why? Because it is highly likely alkaline batteries will get installed and then back to it being pointless having NVRAM installed.

Any IC must be oriented a certain direction. NVRAM is considered an IC because of the type of package it is.

#32 4 years ago

Let me caution the folks who may not be very proficient with a soldering iron that this is in no way an easy mod...if you've never socketed a chip before there's a good chance you will damage an eyelet, which will require you to send your board out for repair. BE WARNED

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Let me caution the folks who may not be very proficient with a soldering iron that this is in no way an easy mod...if you've never socketed a chip before there's a good chance you will damage an eyelet, which will require you to send your board out for repair. BE WARNED

Except in games like Elvis (and most Data East games) where the RAM is already socketed so pulling the original and installing NVRAM is quite easy.

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Except in games like Elvis (and most Data East games) where the RAM is already socketed so pulling the original and installing NVRAM is quite easy.

Actually, all DE, Sega, and Stern Whitestar along with all old Bally Solid State games are all socketed and some or all of early Stern solid state games.

4 years later
#35 88 days ago

Okay. I know this is old. But I just installed vram on my 95 Tommy.

I took the old ram out.
then I removed the batteries,
then I put the new vram in
Turned it back on. All the lights power on. The pinsound card makes it noise...
The dmc does nothing...

And then nothing happens.

Start button. Nothing.

I do have the Tommy 5 code in if that matters?

Help!
PXL_20240417_000536098.jpgPXL_20240417_000536098.jpg

#36 88 days ago
Quoted from RojerLockless:

Okay. I know this is old. But I just installed vram on my 95 Tommy.
I took the old ram out.
then I removed the batteries,
then I put the new vram in
Turned it back on. All the lights power on. The pinsound card makes it noise...
And then nothing happens.
Start button. Nothing.
I do have the Tommy 5 code in if that matters?
Help! [quoted image]

Isn't it in backwards??

#37 88 days ago

Oof, yes, that's backwards. Flip it so the little notch is to the right (like all other IC chips on that board).
Hopefully, powering it up while backwards didn't cook it.
Good luck!

#38 88 days ago
Quoted from Sonic:

Isn't it in backwards??

I realized that soon as I posted.
Pulled it out.
plugged it all back up and now it's still doing the exact same thing.

Pinsound powered up all the back lights and board lights turn on but the dmc and start don't do anything

#39 88 days ago
Quoted from RojerLockless:

I realized that soon as I posted.
Pulled it out.
plugged it all back up and now it's still doing the exact same thing.
Pinsound powered up all the back lights and board lights turn on but the dmc and start don't do anything

I believe if the batteries died, you’d have to open the coin door to get the game to fully boot up. I got this from pinwiki :

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Data_East/Sega#Open_the_Door_Message

Not sure if this is your issue, but worth a try.

#40 88 days ago
Quoted from RojerLockless:

I realized that soon as I posted.
Pulled it out.
plugged it all back up and now it's still doing the exact same thing.
Pinsound powered up all the back lights and board lights turn on but the dmc and start don't do anything

You likely toasted the nvram just put the old ram back in and see if it works....

#41 88 days ago
Quoted from usafstars:

I believe if the batteries died, you’d have to open the coin door to get the game to fully boot up. I got this from pinwiki :
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Data_East/Sega#Open_the_Door_Message
Not sure if this is your issue, but worth a try.

Tried opening the door rebooting 4 or 5 times I plugged the old chip in and slapped new batteries in and at least it booted up so that's good...

Guess I need to fiddle with it some more.
Wiped all the settings even freeplay lol gotta figure that out now.

#42 88 days ago

It's been a long week.

Sigh.

#43 86 days ago

I emailed them and let them know I'm dumb and put it in backwards and they are shipping me out a replacement. A+ from Pinitech

#44 86 days ago

Lucky duck. That's really nice of them.

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