(Topic ID: 165509)

Installing flippers into my gottlieb system 3... left flipper issue

By Konidias

7 years ago

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#1 7 years ago

I'm midway through replacing some flippers with the more suited original ones... I have all the standard parts for a gottlieb system 3 flipper rebuild. I've put them all together and wired them up, and the right flipper is working great. The left flipper is working, but there's a very visible spark coming off the EOS contacts when fired, and if I fire it too frequently in succession, it blows the left flipper fuse and the flipper dies.

I cut the leg from the diode and it tested fine. I then unsoldered all the wiring from the lugs and tested the lugs. I got a good 35 ohms and 0 ohms from each side of the lugs on the 3 lug coil. Then I soldered the EOS switch wires back to the lugs and... getting a .2 ohms reading. Does this indicate a bad capacitor on the EOS switch or what? I've tripled checked the wiring and it should be just fine.

Anyone know the cause of this? The coil and the diode on the coil seem to be just fine. The coil *can* fire normally but it just sparks at EOS pads and blows the fuse if done too rapidly... Cause?

#2 7 years ago

The Capacitor is there for arc suppression, can't hurt to swap it and see

#3 7 years ago

But do you think the cap is to blame? Anyone have a similar problem that found the solution?

#4 7 years ago

I had a case where a game was missing a cap, and I didn't know, and I'd get random resets. Plus, I know that the cap is there to make it not spark so much, so if your flipper is sparking way more than the other one, my first instinct would be that there's something wrong with the cap, or how it's connected. It could be some other wiring issue causing the cap to not be as effective, but....

#5 7 years ago

It's just that I don't have a spare and I really don't want to purchase another cap when I just bought this one brand new... I'd like to avoid spending more money if at all possible. Should I remove the wiring to the EOS switch and test the cap somehow by itself?

#6 7 years ago

Try posting some photos. Maybe someone here will notice something.

#7 7 years ago


Here's a gallery showing both flippers. I actually am having issues with both. They both fire nicely. But if I fire them too fast they will burn out the fuses. I only realized the right one was doing it also because when I first wired them up, I tested the right one flipping it a couple times and it looked to be working, so I didn't notice it was heating up the fuse until I flipped it a dozen times really fast and the fuse got red hot ready to pop.

So I'm just trying to figure this out... The manual shows I have the correct coil part number for the right flipper but apparently the left one is a different part? What was the reasoning for this? I installed two of the same ones so I'm not sure if that's doing something but it doesn't make sense if both flippers are having the issue... I would think the right flipper would work fine but it's not.

I've checked the mosfets on the driver board... they all test fine (took the board out completely and tested them)

I've tested the ohms on the coils, they are fine. Tested the diodes on the coils. Fine. Checked the EOS contacts... they are closed by default and open up when fired. I can fire either flipper and hold them and they stay up just fine, no overheating or anything. Just the initial triggering of the flippers seems to be too much or something.

#8 7 years ago

Sometimes they'd have different flipper coils because one needed to be stronger to hit a ramp

#9 7 years ago

That's what I figured.... Any idea why the flippers are burning the fuses?

#10 7 years ago

What fuses are you using? The manual says that the right coil, A-25959, goes to F20 and has a 2.5 amp slo-blo fuse. F19 uses a 1.5 amp slo-blo fuse for the left coil but since you are using A-25959 instead of A-28740 you might have to put a 2.5 in F19.

Is the gap on your eos switch 1/8" when it is open?

From http://www.pinrepair.com/sys3/
"Don't forget after installing the new coil stops with the increased slug size/less flipper travel, that the flipper EOS switch will need to be re-adjusted. If you don't do this, chances are the EOS switch won't open to its required 1/8" gap, and the flipper fuse will blow (or worse, the flipper coil will melt.)"

Here are pictures of my flippers if it helps at all.



#11 7 years ago

The right fuse is a 2.5 but the left is currently a 1.5... I'll definitely switch out to a 2.5 for the left also... but I think the right one is going to pop too. It hasn't yet, but the fuse glass gets all smoky like it's about to. I don't want to test it until is blows because I don't have any spare 2.5A slow blo on hand at the moment...

I've checked the gap for EOS and it looks fine. They open 1/8" or maybe even a tiny bit more.

Could you tell me how you have your lugs wired up to your EOS switch? It's hard to tell from the photo.

Also... would having a slightly higher valued capacitor on the EOS be a problem? I think mine are 2.5uf 250V instead of 2.2uf 200V

#12 7 years ago

The capacitors are wired to the eos with one lead to each side of the switch. In each picture the line from the fuse is connected to the bottom lug along with a wire that goes to one side of the switch. The other side of the switch connects to the middle lug. The voltage on your capacitors isn't an issue since that is a rating for the maximum it can handle but I don't know about the capacity. It won't hurt the capacitor but I don't know if the added power reserve could be causing your sparking. Is your voltage correct at the fuses and on its way into the coil?

#13 7 years ago

So from what I can tell it doesn't really matter which two lugs the EOS wires run to as long as it's one of the 2 lugs leading to the coils and not the lug for power... right?

I wasn't seeing any difference swapping the two around... Third lug goes to power, first and second lugs can be connected either way to the EOS points? Like there's not a specific order those go in? As long as the EOS switch is breaking connection to one of those lugs?

It's odd that I can't seem to google a single issue similar to mine. They're all either "fuse blows immediately when powered on" or "fuse blows when I hold the flipper in" but I haven't seen anything about "fuse blows when flipper is used 10 times really fast" or anything similar to that. I can't believe this hasn't happened to anyone else in the history of pinball and that they didn't at least try to ask the question online... lol.

One thing I forgot to note... the flippers/coils installed in the game when I got it were not original... They were bigger flipper bats and different coils... would that make a difference? Did the person who installed those possibly alter something on the game? Voltages or something somehow?

They are labeled A-24161.

#14 7 years ago

The EOS needs to be wired across the low power winding, if you've got it on the wrong one you'd be shorting the high power winding instead of the low power, which would make your flippers weaker. Shouldn't cause your current problem either way through.

#15 7 years ago

Still not having any luck with this... am I going to have to pay someone to repair it? :/ I really don't wanna stick the old flippers back in... One flipper was busted up on the plastic anyway.

#16 7 years ago

Okay I'm just dumb.

The right flipper fuse in the game was a 1.5A when it should be 2.5A... I guess the previous owner installed it when putting in the different flippers/coils before. I just never bothered to actually pull it and check it. D'oh! I had a handful of 2.5A fuses... stuck one in each of the flipper fuse spots and now both flippers are firing like champs. I rapid fired the living hell out of them and not so much as a hot fuse to be found. So... success!

This is a lesson in not being lazy and assuming things.

I'm pretty sure this would have been one of those "call a repair guy" situations where he comes over and figures out the problem in 2 minutes and says "it's just a fuse, that'll be $200" and I would have cried into my pillow all night.

#17 7 years ago

Glad to hear it's working. Now it's time to play.

#18 7 years ago

Yep, always check through all the fuses. There's no telling what a previous owner stuck in there just to try to get the game back up and running.

#19 7 years ago

Glad you got it fixed. So far I've found incorrect fuses in all used games I acquired but one.

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