Can't wait to what else you come up with Andrew.

I REALLY like your NVRAM. I don't why anyone would spend the big $$$ on the anypin NVRAM. It's WAY overpriced.

Well, it does support a wide range of systems, including gottlieb system 80. Plus it's selectable/swappable between systems.

http://lockwhenlit.com/anyPinlist.htm

Someone needs to put together a chart of all the NVRAM options available and what they support...

I can not see this as a selling point unless you were a traveling repair tech and only had room to stock one part. even then it is a stretch of the imagination.

It is something you put in and are done.

Try to come up with a swap senerio that even makes sense. Sorry I can't.
Oh wait... At a tournament the 5101 goes in the williams game. And right next to it there is a gottlieb pin with that product in it. Both are socketed, so swappable unit saves the day??? Come on really.

I agree.

I don't see any benefit in it being "swap-able".

I install it once, and forget about it.

If I need more NVRAM for another machine, I buy more.

I'm surprised the 5101/6116/6264 version of the AnyPin seemed to sell as much as it did at around a $40 price point -- but it goes to show that if you market/hype something enough then people will *think* they want the best version of it. That's really what I found the most amazing thing to be with that product.

I bet if I did that board I'd have sold very few @ $40 lol. Cause I can't hype stuff.. I start trying to .. and then can't stop myself from getting into the nuances... doesn't work here or there, make sure it doesn't touch anything conductive, etc etc... and do myself a disservice But then I figure setting expectations low makes for happy customers hehe.

Adapter for a Gottlieb S80 and WMS 3-4 coming out soon. It will work in all the gottlieb, wms, stern, bally games sans gtb sys 1. I chose a cmos 40107 to do the dual CE. It was very inexpensive and small enough could sneak it inside the 5101 footprint. I hope the 100ns will be fast enough. I think it will be, if not i will go to some faster ttl part.

I will be carrying that adapter at a few dollars more and still keep the other 5101 adapter that is just for bally/stern/wms 6-7 at the lower price point. I think it totally makes sense to carry specific adapters and not try and do an all in one. Some people get confused with so many options, but i will answer and questions about what RAM goes into what game and if it is plug and play etc...

Can't wait to get a couple NVRAMs for Gottlieb system 80's

System 80 is already in testing. image.jpeg

wish these worked in gen2 Zaccarias, i'd buy 10 of them right now.

Assuming i got the layout right the first time, these will be ready in about a week. This adapter will work in 5101 applications including S80 and WMS 3-4.

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any chance for a gen 2 zaccaria adapter?

Looks like David G. made one.

http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com/products/brink/index.html

Is he not doing this design anymore??

actually, i just reread that section and that is a different one than dave suggested before when using NVram. Must be a new type. I'll investigate this.

It will work. I've been using this exact part in this exact capacity for years and shown it in several examples I've posted on the forum. Including this thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nvram-technical-discussion

I'm not suggesting you're "copying" me at all because that's pretty much the only dual NAND out there. And I put the info out there for people to use so it would be pretty lame to come back later and claim copying. That and the fact that you didn't add pull-ups to the NAND outputs so I don't think your board will work. They're open drain outputs. This is mentioned in the data sheet and I mentioned it at least once on the forum when I was talking about these boards, but I learned this one the hard way too.

Here's one of the 5101 adapters I shared in the thread above as an example. Note the pull-ups on the NAND outputs. The NAND gates will not work as intended without them. When the output is in the high state, the pin will be floating.

454885-i[1].jpg

I hacked up a board with a 4011 originally and it worked. Than found the 40107 and hastily used that with out pullups. I don't think it will work either, but i will try it out. Par for the course i guess and wouldnt be the first time i made a mistake on a pcb layout. I am going to set up a new design with two single NANDs or one single nand and one inverter. Looking for cheap smt parts i can fit between the 5101 pads.

A different implementation would have been nice to see, considering the market will be affected for the very person that spelled out the circuit for the NAND design being used. Could have used a different nvram or a different circuit entirely. I don't really get this circuit board stuff where people feel entitled to build the same thing with other people's circuits and call it their own.. simply because the "parts cost" is far less than what the product is sold for and they can make a few dollars themselves, instead of respecting ingenuity and innovation. Guess I never will get that philosophy.

It's cool though that the people who's stuff gets copied are still willing to be forthcoming with information that benefits the community after that and/or politely talk about these things.

Pretty much the same thing that happened to me. I've tested it and it doesn't work without the pull-ups. I figured that out because it didn't work so I put a logic probe on the NAND gates and found the outputs floating when they're in the high state. I checked the data sheet and face-palmed.

Single NAND and inverter would work. I think Ingo used two single NAND gate chips on his version, which would be the same for anypin I assume. The cost is basically the same as the solution you've already designed, regardless. Just need to add the pull-ups.

Will this one fit between the pins? Of course, I don't know if you consider $0.54 cheap in single qty.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SN74LVC2G00DCTR/296-13257-1-ND/484537

Others like ST, NXP also make one but no one seems to stock them?

Yes that one will fit between the pins and is I believe the one Ingo recommended to me. They make it in an even smaller version too, SOT753 package.

How about this NXP part. 74AHCT1G00GW. 18 cents each at 50+
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74AHC_AHCT1G00.pdf

That definitely looks like a better part to use. Bummer that the pinouts are different. Thanks, I will probably use this part in the future.

I had some trouble finding a part to use that was in stock when I originally designed these as well. It seemed weird that there were not more dual NAND ICs available. Seems like something that would be in demand.

dave said he has used this in Gen 2's and said it works. :/ anyone else able to confirm for sure?

On second though...

I looked for almost an hour today... no device matches the pinout i tried the first time and does not need pullups.

Here is a layout using a different dual NAND in SSOP package. I still have to square up the traces a bit. This NAND device is same pinout to the one cactus linked above. $0.30 at 100+. Not bad assuming i have no problem soldering that fine of a pitch... i think i will be OK doing it.

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I would stay with the 74ACT series for decoding. You want the TTL compatible signal levels and higher speeds so you don't violate the timing Windows. CMOS with a pull up might work most of the time, but would not be as reliable.

Mac

anyPin NVRAM works, yes.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

No, it's not.

It works where others don't.

It's actually designed to fit where it's used.

It's one part, that can be used in multiple applications.

It's professionally designed and built, and looks like it.

It's guaranteed for life.

These and other things set anyPin NVRAM Battery Eliminators apart from others.

Choose what's right for you, no need to continually bash anyPin NVRAM.

anypin_vs_bigred.jpg

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

I wonder what it would take to copy off a data dump of the existing RAM chip, put it on the NVRAM, and thus restore the game's current high score list?

If you have a big collection of game of say 30 games, ten early bally, ten sys 11, ten data east. Why buy 30 pcs of $40 ram that can work in any of them when you can buy 10pcs of each flavor for $15 ram each.

The GQ-4X can read / write the FM1608 and 6264 NVRAMs when set to DS1225Y.

You are going to have to get pretty damn creative to read the SRAM without losing the battery connection. They hold data very very briefly if you are fast enough with the battery removed. Better off just writing down the high scores and scoring them back into the game with the glass off if you really want to remember. That or carve the score into the cabinet.

Andrew

Absolutely. And that's why anyPin DMD+ was introduced. It too does more than just a generic adapter though. It can work as both 6116 and 6264.

I always try to add value to what I offer, whether it's working in more games, one part for all games, lifetime warranty, whatever. Just offering a generic adapter that you can build yourself for under $3 doesn't interest me. Developing a product that has multiple functions or eliminates the need to stock multiple parts does. That's why anyPin NVRAM Battery Eliminators were developed in the first place. Not to undercut what was already out there, but to add value to something, and release a unique product with multiple functions.

Obviously there's a market for both. anyPin NVRAM Battery Eliminators sales have never been better, and obviously you're doing just fine offering what you do.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

It was more of a thought exercise, as I totally agree. Still, you would think a data dump via the MPU might be possible.

I have the anypin NVRAM in a lot of my games, and it works excellent in the variety I have. Works great for people with diverse collections such as myself.

Only downside I would say, is that it doesn't work for Gen2 Zaccaria. But that seems to be where the Brink NVRAM chip comes into play. Since it has to piggy back on 2 separate ram chips so it's a completely different plug arrangement.

Not sure if it will cause any issues but you could solder a 3 volt battery cell across the power and ground pins if the original CMOS RAM before removing it to preserve high scores and bookkeeping.

It's a little like what slot techs do when the mpu reports a low battery before it drops below 2 volts. They apply 5 volt to the board while changing the battery.

So in theory, you could solder the 3 volt battery cell, transport the RAM to a GQ-4X, read the memory, copy it to the NVRAM, and you should be good.

Agreed! That's what I used on my system 80 boards, which even have spare nands on its cpu already, no need for pull ups.

This NVRAM stuff has always been interesting. I never imagined when I started making these 10ish years ago that there would be so much drama over the years, but the thing that's really surprised me is people's willingness to duplicate what someone else developed and make no reference to the original whatsoever. In some cases basically taking credit for the design. That's one thing that I really didn't expect, but I've seen it happen for 5-6 generations of people now with these things.

That graphic is a little misleading. Of course other 6264 adapters won't work in machines which didn't originally use 6264. Your adapter won't work in these machines when configured as 6264 either.

I understand the point you're trying to get across and I'm not knocking the product itself, but this graphic doesn't make sense to me.

6264 and 6116 wouldn't be too tough. You would have to build a battery-back circuit and clip it to the original RAM before you remove it. Could be as simple as just a coin cell battery and isolation diode. Or just a rechargeable battery with sufficient voltage. Then read the original RAM and program it into the new one. Not that tough, in theory. I've thought about trying this and documenting the procedure a few times, but never got around to it.

5101 is another story. Reading a 4-bit RAM could prove troublesome with something like an EPROM programmer.

I've developed a CPU socket based RAM/ROM replacement which is capable of reading the original RAM and writing it into the new one. Got to finally learn some 6800 series assembly. Haha! Might come out some far off day in the future

Can do this with the GQ-4X, just need a reverse built 5101 adapter.

I posted info on how to do that here (where general info on reading/writing nvram with GQ-4X all started):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/zero-out-nvram

Really what it comes down to is when you're reading/writing you'll get what look like full bytes in GQ-4X but you can only write half the byte (nibble). If you try editing the data and writing a full byte, it'll error out because checksums don't match. That's cause it pulls a 0xF for the "missing" nibble since the 5101 is a 4-bit device.

Very delusional of you to think. Your product has been out for a long time say like 8-10yrs?

I have never bought one. EVER, NEVER. To much $$.

Why are guys(like Andrew) and others doing the right thing helping others get the batteries off the boards.

Nvram up until the last year was an option all along but for the cost made absolutely no sense. Only for the rich and famous. Rich and clueless. Rich and early adopters. Did I mention rich. Nice royal purple boards.
I actually always liked. He he he.. But now I am thinking of JPOP thread his color of choice. I am rolling.
I am back...
BUT regular lithium batteries/ button cells, memory caps, remote packs of NiCad or any other option makes sense. First.. Way before your 40$ option ever would.

Your OVERPRIC3D product has no real benefit. As all these years folks know there is a solution but guess what don't feel it is worth it. And it is not.

I feel it is worth opening up machine every six months anyhow. To inspect connectors and yes measure the battery voltage.

I will help do some math proving your product will not ever be a smart thing to do but as you are bit delusional. And we have already had those types of decusions. Where you purchase AA batteries at full retail and I purchase in bulk for about .33 a peice.

I think if you buy anypin you will protect your board. But at a great cost.

At least with the other guys and or doing yourself you may see a return or savings in your lifetime. Definitely for the next guy or your children.

About 80 years with AnyPin.

nuff said. Rant over.

I'm glad I'm not the only one bugged by that, far too often people take credit for things that weren't their ideas or even blatantly copy things. It's pretty obvious in the case of a 5101 dual-CE adapter where the idea for implementation came from. IMHO if you can't do it a different way or couldn't think of the design yourself, you shouldn't be doing it at all, or if you really feel compelled to, you should at least give recognition where it's due or ask the person who's idea you saw if it's okay. That's sometimes all people are asking for, not to see someone else take credit as if they invented something themselves.

All this talk about GREED and "ripping people off" is totally unnecessary among the people creating things. It's a pretty cruddy way to attempt to drive sales your way if YOU as a seller have to bash competition in such a way in order to compete. If you're competitively priced enough people will post links and buy from you without having to bash other's efforts or offerings. Anyone selling anything for more than what they pay for the item.. or the materials to build it.. could be considered greedy in someone's eyes. That same seller can be considered beneficial because they're offering something that might otherwise not be available.. or at a lower price. Selling RAMTRON DIP parts that are used pulls, likely imported around $2 and resold for up to 4x cost could be considered greedy, compared to being able to import directly $5ea.. or maybe even $2-3ea as mentioned here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nvram-experience The part of all this I think creates drama is the bashing of products, efforts going on -- disrespect that can happen among peers to drive sales. Blatant copying for the more unique designs/creations at times. That stuff could be minimized a ton more if people just respect others efforts a bit more.

The cool thing that came out of it all though has been the innovation that's occurred in the different products over the years. Stuff that would be nice for the community to realize and recognize.. or at least see in PRINT once in a while. Tom Callahan's (Pin-Logic) adapters, Lindsey's Pinforge boards, Bob D's 6116/6264 solder blob adapter, the Universal AnyPin, several Gottlieb compatible designs (with different implementations), smaller footprint boards like the Denikar ones.. MagicRam, German-Pinball's boards. Lots of people creating things and some ideas borrowed I'm sure, but rarely verbatim copied.. which is nice.

Just my 2 cents. And a free bump to a ridiculous product (nvram) with years and years of DRAMA that the few of us "old-timers" (in the nvram world) have since gotten over.

Greed was pricing NVRAMs at $40 to $30. I saw those price tags and realized I could build adapters for $5. I thought "wow how greedy can these people selling NVRAMs be, they are taking advantage of pinballers". I setup shop at $15 each with quantity breaks. People are buying bulk amounts and sending me messages like "Wow i was waiting to convert to NVRAM because of the price tag, now i will do all my games, let me get 10pcs 5101, 10pcs 6116, 10pcs 6264" etc....

The problem with NVRAM before i got involved was price point... flat out price point. I priced it right and stole the market share. There is a limited number of game and collectors that need NVRAM. My goal was to saturate the market and soak up all the sales I could. Plenty of meat left on the bone for me at $10-15 each, same for you.

I learned how to do PCB design in two different software in a matter of days. I did not photocopy anyone's board. I laid out the traces using datasheets. How much mystery is there really. A1 goes to A1.... you make it sound like you came up with something revolutionary. The core information is just the device, FM1608. As much as your ego needs stroked, you didnt come up with anything. Thank RAMTRON and Cypress for creating the FM1608 device. They deserve the credit, not you. Adjusting the pin out anyone could do. The info is right there in the data sheets.

My 5101 adapter using FM1608 is nothing like anyone else. My 5101 adapter with dual CE will use a device no one else is using (i think).

Bottom line is if you are mad about me being in the NVRAM game, it is partially your own faults. If you wouldn't have gotten greedy with price tag, i would still just be fixing pinball PCBs for people.

http://nvram.weebly.com
new designs coming out soon.

If you're only ever going to be hand assembling them, the 5101 adapter can route a lot cleaner with the RAMTRON part on the bottom and the NAND IC on the top. I was able to get it to route with one via, but I abandoned that idea when I started making everything with the SMD parts all on one side so I have the option to reflow solder them. I think I've posted enough PCBs at this point so I won't derail further, but it's something to think about.

You must be joking..

http://www.pinitech.com/lab/5101_budget_ram.php

DUAL CE handled by just popping in a compatible 6264 NVRAM on that one too.. heck you could even pop in a standard 6264 and it'd work fine in Gottlieb machines (in a later revision when I realized I could just connect the CE2 line as-is from the 600mil footprint for that support).

You're arguing stuff you cannot backup.. or somehow think you invented things that you most certainly did not.

You admitted to buying other people's boards and trying to figure out circuits for Williams System 3/4 boards that were having issues. You asked for help on some dual CE designs and low and behold people (Lindsey among others) were kind enough to generate some technical discussion on the subject. You are IMO very lucky that people have been as forthcoming with information you then use to profit.

It just really sucks when there's people that get full backing offering the same thing at a cheaper price, that are otherwise very much in the wrong from a peer perspective or community perspective. It may be the "smartest" thing to do business wise to copy ideas and tweak them slightly, but it sucks for any or all of those affected and the lack of recognition at times.

The enable logic is the exact schematic I posted, which in itself is just basic logic. Using a different part number doesn't make it different. Maybe no one is selling one with that exact part number on it, but it's all the same logic. I'm not complaining, just pointing out that none of us invented basic logic functions. Throw a 7400 on there and some guy from the seventies can come and argue about it.

NVRAM adapters were available in the $16 range with this functionality well before you got into the market. Whatever happened to that guy?

I don't think we've seen the bottom in terms of price on these things.

My reputation is fine. The only one upset is you and maybe some other people selling NVRAM. All the hundreds of customers with boards I fixed, NVRAM sold to, etc are happy. I receive so many positive messages about how happy they are with nvram and boards i fix. I sleep fine at night, i am not in the wrong at all.

I constantly contribute tech help every day. I fix boards every day. I love pinball electronics and making money. I combined those two things together and it has been great. Im sorry it caused so much drama, kind of a head ache and get me emotionally charged.

I seem to at my best when I am competing against something. Gives me drive to succeed.

Well said......GREED

At $40 a pop, NVRAM isn't an option I'll even look at. At $10-$20, it's a viable, cost-effective option. I didn't even bother looking into NVRAM adapters much until a few started hitting that price point.