Both are great games and I currently have them sitting next to each other in my collection. I honestly love the gameplay of STTNG just a bit more. It has a great wizard mode that's very achievable and very satisfying. Plus, your performance in the modes working your way up to the final mode has a huge impact on how well you score in the wizard mode. I feel this machine is one of the best values under 5k.

Both machines have awesome call outs and theme implementation, But I like the theme of IJ better. It's also a super fun machine to shoot and I love the fast ramps and orbits. I still haven't made it to Indy's wizard mode since it seems like quite a feat to get thru all 12 modes (at least with my average at best skills). Also, IJ seems to sell for several thousand more than STTNG. Because of that, my vote goes for STTNG. Like many have said, both are great and It's hard to go wrong with either.

This is all definitely true. But the game is not “Star Trek”. It is STTNG, a show which has not aged as well as the idea of the Star Trek universe as a whole. (And I’m saying this being a big fan of TNG). Indy started out in the past and continues to have appeal but not the “cheese” factor of TNG

STTNG is my choice. love the layout, love the rules, love the theme. Best theme integration of any game, in fact. The custom dialog and callouts for all the missions from the actual actors on the show is a great touch that apparently can't be replicated today. (boboli boboli)

The game offers several paths to high scores:
- try to build up huge jackpots and go for Borg Multiball (the jackpot value builds infinitely)
- play missions for points / artifacts (can be very lucrative if you and your competition aren't going to make it to the final frontier)
- work the super spinner to infinity and beyond (huge points if you know how to stack it up correctly)
- try to survive to the Final Frontier, either by beating or timing out missions ... the catch is if you time out the missions, you don't collect artifacts, and the Final Frontier is not worth much -- another great feature of the rules. Most Wizard modes in pinball are worth a ton of points independent of how well you did on the missions that got you there.

each of these strategies have their uses, depending on your skill level, how brutal the game is playing, and whether you're going for all-time high score or just trying to beat your opponent one on one. There are so many games out there with basically one right answer scoring-wise. STTNG offers some great risk/reward strategy decisions.

it's also got some great goals for the long-term owner. Who here has made it to Warp 9.9? That's a heck of a challenge.

STTNG for the win!

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IJ is a vastly better game (unless you like timing out modes?) that's harder to find, and on top of that, even when you do find it, it's frequently been restored and pimped out. See also: Rise of popularity of specific games tied to tournament use. STTNG NEVER gets used in major tournaments, and when it's used in smaller ones it's typically been intentionally crippled in some way....super spinner disabled either in software or just straight up not wired, for example. Frankly, I think that's kind of ridiculous because there's GOD KNOWS *PLENTY* of EM and Solid State games that are used in tournaments that are 100% "rip the spinner to win" games....

STTNG...you can still find them beat up and trashed, do the work yourself, and not pay a buyer's premium for someone else's restoration. For some reason, people are irrationally scared of working on that game. I've owned two... my last STTNG I sold for 5500! With freakin' googley eyes tacked all over the backglass, and an unrestored cabinet that had powdercoated trim that was..not the best. Trust me when I say I had waaaaay less than that in it.

*edit* I just looked it up...I sold that last STTNG almost 3 years ago to the day. Wow. In today's pinball dollars that's probably more like 7 or 8k.

......it's much harder on the Stern Star Trek. Magnitudes. It's like Transwarp 9.9 on Stern's. That big long orbit makes things really predictable on a well set up STTNG.

I think it seems like Indy is a more "exclusive" game, but there is just something special about TNG. Maybe I'm playing it through Geordie's glasses but for the time, it really was head and shoulders above everything else.

but overall there's less to do on the Stern ST, and fewer mechs and doodads to do it with. ST is basically a stripped down STTNG, with less metal, fewer mechs, lamer art, and far inferior theme integration. it flows nice, which is important, but that's really about the only thing it has going for it.

Indiana Jones!

I vote for the one that has less dimples in the pf

I have both. I love both. But come on guys, Patrick Stewart rules.......

Doesn't rule over Our Lord and Savior Indy. Good, but not Indy good.

Then your vote is Indy because STTNG has the cannons making airballs all day long, but both are WAY less dimpled than any modern Stern except maybe LotRLE.

Market pricing is 3800-5000 for STTNG. 5000-9000 for Indy. Indy is clearly in higher demand.

Indy all the way for me

Are you saying Magic Girl is a better game than Medieval Madness?

They built 15 magic girls. Poorly. Not a fair comparison. If there were 10,000 of those things floating around what would they be worth?

It really is a fair comparison between Sttng and Indy are high production games with very similar production numbers.

There’s gotta be a good reason that IJ market is $3000 or so stronger. Probably because it’s in higher demand.

STTNG.

Because the shots are better and more satisfying. IJs POA is a waste of real estate. STTNG probably didn’t need to be a widebody, but it’s still wicked fast for a widebody.

STTNG. IJ wins on theme only for me.

Let's not be silly. You know Magic Girl did not have a run size like STTNG, Indy, or Medieval Madness.

Yep. Comparing IJ and Indy is completly a fair comparison. I would say MORE fair than STTNG and Indy.

I am huge Trekkie and even I will admit IJ is a much better theme for most people.

That being said, if you took theme away, STTNG is a better game.

But theme matters and no themed game matches gameplay better then IJ. It's just a perfect "world under glass"

According to google trends IJ is 3 times as popular as Next Gen. So that kind of explains the price difference for the most part.

I'm really surprised at the comments. Frax, are you getting STTNG confused with a different game? Why would you time out STTNG modes? You can get an artifact for the final frontier + 50 million. I could see why you'd time out IJ modes though. And tourney, I though IJ was just multiball all day which is why they don't use it either?

Like I mentioned in the other thread, IJ is a much more universal theme but STTNG just shoots so much better from a kinetics standpoint + the rules are better overall with the artifacts, warp 9.9, neutral zone stuff, etc. I like IJ but smooth shooting it was not.

Whaaaa? Ramp to ramp to ramp to captive ball to orbit to idol hole - so many ways to keep the flow going on indy. Butter smooth shots. Only stops for path of adventure, idol hole.

The only shots that really flowed well were the ramps. Captive ball, lol? That's your buttery smooth example?

I like IJ (got to external life twice in one game) but flow and kinetics aren't its strong points unfortunately in my opinion. The mode start needs a ton of work to make it stick right on most games, the drops cause airballs down the left outlane, the captive ball sends it down the middle a bunch, the pops just kind of trickle out super slow, etc. The theme, callouts, modes, etc are outstanding, and if they were on a different layout I'd probably still own the game (or if there was a reward for completing the modes, which is the biggest missing thing).

Or you're like me and you're the only one who plays it and you still get the credit dot.

Both are great games, but with Indy costing ~2k more I think STTNG is the easy choice. If money is no object, I still like STTNG better.

I was citing shots that keep the ball moving. Captive ball gives you the ball right back (never out the middle - what's wrong with the machine you played?), orbits flow when the gates are up, ramps flow, it's a GREAT game for flow when everything is opened up. I still wish I knew whose face that is hidden in indy's hat on the backglass, though...

I never played IJ. So I voted for STTNG.
It's a favorite of mine.

You shouldn’t be voting then!!

this!

I voted Indy but forgot about the easter egg games of TNG where you can play poker or breakout on the dmd. Does Indy have any hidden games?

Not a mini game, but Michigan J Frog is hidden in the mine cart mode which took almost 20 years to be found.

I always wanted a Deep Space Nine pin. Battling the Jem Hadar in Dominion multiball! There are so many cool things you could do with the theme. Oh well, I can dream

I owned Indy briefly and just didn’t like it.........

Not a full game like breakout, but it has 3 distinct video modes, all of which are fun and all of which are reasonably tough, at least for a while

Took me a good 6 months, lots of tweaking (still drains SDTM off the single drop target lane, and jumps the left wire form a lot) and almost selling it a few times to “get” it

If I liked TNG, that game would be an absolute steal for what you get and how it plays. IJ is starting to get overpriced now in my opinion for the gameplay which seems to live in the lower half of the PF. The problem is the cabinet, them, sound, music is so damn good, I would prob just buy it for that (again).....I just don't want to pay the premium it's now commanding.

I guess he hasn't played it much?

You aren't getting huge scores on that game by timing out the modes and you are losing BIG POINTS in Final Frontier by doing so. And, I've seen IJ in one circuit tournament (Pinburgh qualifying bank) over the past couple of years, while of seen STTNG in one circuit tournament (Magfest) over the past couple of years. Neither are tournament faves.

Never owned an Indy but i sure don't miss my STTNG

What's a pimped out Indy worth these days, with color DMD, brass trim, and low plays/nice PF?

I say toss up. I own nice examples of both and will go back and forth between the two. Both games are excellent examples of being well integrated with their respective theme. Both are super loaded ( and heavy as hell) for their times. For the money tho, you would have to go STTNG.

I like Indy a little better than STTNG, however.. you can't go wrong with STTNG. I always wanted to add a STTNG to my line-up, I just never seem to have pin funds when one becomes available. If I had to choose between the two today, I'd go STTNG because of the price difference. The only thing I'm not crazy about on STTNG are the angles of the rubbers on top of the slings. I suppose they had to be that way to clear the rotating cannon mechs, but they help create quite a funnel to the outlanes. I'm always trying to relight the left kick back, and trying to get the ball to stay clear of the right outlane. Until I get my shots dialed on any given STTNG, I'm draining left and right (literally).

I did not know that. Hilarious.

Your move, STTNG.

Cabinet fade and whether a reimport are factors, but generally speaking, probably high 7's to mid 8's.

If IJ didn't have the POA, it would likely win. I don't own one based on that wasted real estate and the low, crowded playfield. The playfield feels small, and if you think about it, there's not too much going on in the game. The ramps are great, but the main feature, aside from the crappy POA, is a lock behind drops. STTNG has way better shots, functional toys and flow.

The biggest criticism of STTNG is the side drains, but I prefer games to be on the difficult side in a home environment, so this is a win for me. It's hard to kick the game's ass, but when you do, it feels great.

Indy wins for popular theme, but I'd argue both themes are integrated equally well. If you add the scores up, STTNG wins.

Let me think about this!

IJ

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Don't understand why people whine about the POA so much. When it's working, it's fun.

And "wasted real estate?" It's on the top far left of a widebody playfield. An orbit goes under it, pops are under it, and ramps go around it. It's not like those gigantic roto target units that used to take up the entire center of a gottlieb playfield.

Like...what exactly would you rather see up there? Is the big borg ship on STTNG wasted real estate? How about all the real estate with nothing on it on STTNG (the vast center of the playfield), is that wasted real estate? How can I make money from flipping this real estate?

"Wasted real estate" is just one of those things people on pinside like to type cause it feels good. It usually doesn't really mean much, however.

Nope. It's the cannons. Anti-flow devices.

http://mypinballblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/hidden-brick-game-in-sttng.html

This is my point though. Lots of stuff underneath it. It blocks that stuff. I am not wild about that. I don't care if the game is packed to the gills, as long as it's fun. Just don't care for the POA. not a deal breaker, but when I put it next to STTNG, I want to play that/have that more.

Bascially STTNG puts a side ramp, diverter, and the borg ship in that spot. That is a way better feature IMO.

Yep. Borg ship for me. And I would think STTNG could be a standard body for sure. But still, it's the better game for me.

I totally regret the first time I ever used the words "wasted real estate"