New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 152226)

Indy Jones (WMS) Slam Tilt only when modes complete


By ricksgames

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

#1 4 years ago

I've been fighting a nasty problem with a WMS Indy Jones that's really got me stumped. The game will slam tilt shortly after completing all of the adventures and no other time. It plays perfectly through all the modes but as soon as you complete them all within just a few shots the game will slam tilt. I've done a 100% switch test. I've swapped out the MPU, the Power/Driver, the flipper optos, and the 10 opto controller under the playfield. The trough switches check out OK. I've use my oscilloscope to look at the switch rows and don't see anything unusual. I've pounded on the playfield with the game in Switch Edges to see if anything false trips. I've started a game and then disconnected the coin door so the slam tilt is not even connected and the same problem occurs.

I've truly run out of ideas to try. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

#2 4 years ago

Bad diode on a switch somewhere? Check the row and column that the slam tilt is on in the switch matrix. Also, check the diode on the switches above the mode start hole. Might be smashed and can cause funny issues.

#3 4 years ago

Check the software revision. Some IJ's do have bugs when Eternal life starts, and once I have had a crashing IJ when Billion was supposed to be awarded.
Perhaps something there.

#4 4 years ago
Quoted from pincredible:

Bad diode on a switch somewhere? Check the row and column that the slam tilt is on in the switch matrix. Also, check the diode on the switches above the mode start hole. Might be smashed and can cause funny issues.

I've done this several times. It's probably something along these lines but I can't find it. No indication with switch edges. The diodes seem to measure OK. Things look OK with an oscilloscope when I activate the switches and this ONLY happens when all the modes are completed...

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from Richard_BoK:

Check the software revision. Some IJ's do have bugs when Eternal life starts, and once I have had a crashing IJ when Billion was supposed to be awarded.
Perhaps something there.

I did this right away and the second MPU I tried had a fresh L7 EPROM and the original MPU had L7 too. I don't see anything in the revision history that sounds like this problem.

#6 4 years ago

Still, though, commonality is the L7. Just try a different level and see if it still does it. It does sound code/bug related.

#7 4 years ago

The slam tilt switch in on your coin door. Pull the outside blade of the switch out much further and check to make sure the diode is shorted against something metal.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

The slam tilt switch in on your coin door. Pull the outside blade of the switch out much further and check to make sure the diode is shorted against something metal.

I did this right away and as I said in the original post it does this even with the coin door disconnected. Also it would happen more often than just when the modes are all completed.

#9 4 years ago

Can you snap and post a picture of the wiring at the bottom of the MPU?

Did the original MPU have any acid damage on the board?

#10 4 years ago

Any other switches randomly record that you noticed?

#11 4 years ago

I'm working on TAF with a very similar issue. During gameplay, sometimes the slam tilt comes up and other times the volume goes up and down by itself and even walks through the setting menu during a game. As this happened, I had unplugged the coin door switch connectors (J205 and J212) but the problem still happens. I plan on repining all the wring at the bottom of the MPU.

#12 4 years ago

That does sound like battery corrosion on the MPU. But the problem which is mode-related does not.
No problem double checking that though.

#13 4 years ago

IMO, if this were a switch or any type of mechanical/electrical failure it surely would manifest itself at some point during the long journey to eternal life or whatever that wiz mode is called. *Only* happening after all modes are completed sounds like a software glitch.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from Richard_BoK:

That does sound like battery corrosion on the MPU. But the problem which is mode-related does not.
No problem double checking that though.

It sounds that way, but itis not. The OP has swapped out the MPU, power driver board, the flipper optos, and the 10 opto boards.

I had swapped out the MPU with from another good TAF so I was even using a different game ROM from the other machine. Neither MPU has any battery corrosion as they are both clean boards. I think mine may be a loose wire on J207 connector at the MPU to one column of switches.

#15 4 years ago

The volume / menu switches are direct switches, which are not in the matrix. They are connected to J205 at the MPU.
But if you swapped the PCB's it is certainly not there, but in the wiring / switches.

Back to the IJ problem which slamtilts after completing all modes:

@OP:
- Can you reproduce the problem?

- Can you check what the game does at that time, and when it seems to happen?
Perhaps some flashers flashing (eternal life insert?) or something the game does at that moment.
Or when all lamps flash at the same time showing the ball needs to be shot in the modestart?

- What happens to the voltage at the CPU when all lamps are on? Does the reset also occur when in "all lamps" test?

- Is it really a slam (does it have the same effects (display / sound / etc) comparing to a manual activated slam?
Or is it a reset of the machine (caused by low voltage by flashing all lamps)?

I'm just throwing in some ideas here, hoping someone else may be triggered for a good idea....
Very strange that it only happens at that time. Does sound like software, but then it also would be a known problem. Then all L7's would be experiencing the same problem.

I think first thing is trying to reproduce the problem, try to figure out what exactly happens at the time the slam (or reset?) occurs.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

IMO, if this were a switch or any type of mechanical/electrical failure it surely would manifest itself at some point during the long journey to eternal life or whatever that wiz mode is called. *Only* happening after all modes are completed sounds like a software glitch.

Cody, I'm not real familiar with the game, but, if the game does something after the modes are completed that it doesn't do prior, then that would be a place to look, right?

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from JoeGrenuk:

Cody, I'm not real familiar with the game, but, if the game does something after the modes are completed that it doesn't do prior, then that would be a place to look, right?

Yes, absolutely. Richard_Bok makes some good points as well.

Does it do it after the wiz mode is initiated and all the balls are on the field (IIRC), or during the time it is waiting to launch the wiz mode?

#18 4 years ago

Did you visually inspect the diode under the POA above the mode start hole?
Humor us and take a photo.
Start a game and test every switch and see if you can get the slam tilt error to occur. Test all of the switches on the POA.

#19 4 years ago

As I said in the original post, I swapped out the MPU, twice actually. Once with a Rottendog and later with a know good original. Battery damage is not the issue.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you snap and post a picture of the wiring at the bottom of the MPU?
Did the original MPU have any acid damage on the board?

#20 4 years ago

No acid damage on the connectors at the base of the MPU.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you snap and post a picture of the wiring at the bottom of the MPU?
Did the original MPU have any acid damage on the board?

#21 4 years ago

None. The game plays perfectly until you finish all of the modes.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Any other switches randomly record that you noticed?

#22 4 years ago

It does sound like software but I've tried the same thing on several other machines without problems.

Quoted from cody_chunn:

IMO, if this were a switch or any type of mechanical/electrical failure it surely would manifest itself at some point during the long journey to eternal life or whatever that wiz mode is called. *Only* happening after all modes are completed sounds like a software glitch.

#23 4 years ago

I do appreciate the suggestions. It is usually reproducible but it takes some time just to complete all the modes. A few times it hasn't and I thought the game was fixed only to hear later that it started acting up again. It's a 2 hour drive to get to the machine which doesn't help. It does actually display "Slam Tilt" when this happens so it's not the plum bob or a reset. I seen no evidence of this game resetting at all. Besides swapping out the MPU and Power/Driver most of the ribbon cables have been swapped out too.

Quoted from Richard_BoK:

The volume / menu switches are direct switches, which are not in the matrix. They are connected to J205 at the MPU.
But if you swapped the PCB's it is certainly not there, but in the wiring / switches.
Back to the IJ problem which slamtilts after completing all modes:
@OP:
- Can you reproduce the problem?
- Can you check what the game does at that time, and when it seems to happen?
Perhaps some flashers flashing (eternal life insert?) or something the game does at that moment.
Or when all lamps flash at the same time showing the ball needs to be shot in the modestart?
- What happens to the voltage at the CPU when all lamps are on? Does the reset also occur when in "all lamps" test?
- Is it really a slam (does it have the same effects (display / sound / etc) comparing to a manual activated slam?
Or is it a reset of the machine (caused by low voltage by flashing all lamps)?
I'm just throwing in some ideas here, hoping someone else may be triggered for a good idea....
Very strange that it only happens at that time. Does sound like software, but then it also would be a known problem. Then all L7's would be experiencing the same problem.
I think first thing is trying to reproduce the problem, try to figure out what exactly happens at the time the slam (or reset?) occurs.

#24 4 years ago

I won't be back to work on the machine for a while. As I stated in the original posting I've done a 100% switch test several times actually with no errors I can see. It doesn't reset when ejecting from the mode start hole. Last time the right ramps triggered the problem.

Quoted from pincredible:

Did you visually inspect the diode under the POA above the mode start hole?
Humor us and take a photo.
Start a game and test every switch and see if you can get the slam tilt error to occur. Test all of the switches on the POA.

#25 4 years ago

Testing switches in switch edges isn't going to produce a slam tilt. Try testing the switches during game play, not in test.
There is a switch on the bottom side of the path of adventure, the diode on this gets smashed and shorts on the lugs of the switch often causing phantom switch problems like the one you're having.

#26 4 years ago

Ive had 2 games show slam tilt like this and it was a reset issue not a slam tilt issue actually. Both had issues when the game went nuts in mode/multiball/flashers etc. In 1 case one of the flasher sockets was touching another piece of metal and would cause a short and reset when it went crazy. The other i bought a kahr daughter board and it fixed it.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you snap and post a picture of the wiring at the bottom of the MPU?
Did the original MPU have any acid damage on the board?

Quoted from ricksgames:

As I said in the original post, I swapped out the MPU, twice actually. Once with a Rottendog and later with a know good original. Battery damage is not the issue.

Yes, yes. I was more interested in seeing the wiring at the bottom of the MPU in a picture.

A smashed diode as a couple of people suggested under the POA is sounding more and more like the issue.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
11,750 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Charlotte, NC

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside