(Topic ID: 220688)

Indiana Jones (Williams) Mini PF: motor goes only one direction


By mikoz

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by mikoz
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 10 months ago

Hi all,

The Mini Playfield motor will only rotate one direction (clock-wise if that matters).
The optos are good, because i can move the board by hand and observe, in the Mini PF test, that the system sees the board toggle left and right.
I did replace the motor control board just about a year or two ago when the motors wouldn't move at all.
is this yet another motor control board issue?
It would seem that if the motor works in one direction, it's working, and I would assume that the direction is reversed by simply reversing polarity in the motor control board output, therefore suggesting it's a motor control board issue.
Any thoughts?

Thanks for reading!

-2
#2 10 months ago

This issue is well documents for 20 years. Read, read and re-read comments and tests well documented. I'm sure you looked a bit because you "said" the optos are good. Be there, done this a long time ago.

#3 10 months ago
Quoted from Taxman:

This issue is well documents for 20 years. Read, read and re-read comments and tests well documented. I'm sure you looked a bit because you "said" the optos are good. Be there, done this a long time ago.

Hi

Thanks. I’ve read/searches the forum but I probably did miss something.

Can you elaborate a bit more?
I say the Optos are good because as I mentioned I can move the board by hand and observe the switches 94 and 95 trigger as appropriate and only when appropriate.

-2
#4 10 months ago
Quoted from mikoz:

Hi
Thanks. I’ve read/searches the forum but I probably did miss something.
Can you elaborate a bit more?
I say the Optos are good because as I mentioned I can move the board by hand and observe the switches 94 and 95 trigger as appropriate and only when appropriate.

I was trying to avoid the typing of what has been done before. Starting with -

What happens in the test mode? Is this when the right flipper makes it turn just fine? Bit then does the left flipper button make it "stutter" when going CC?

You need to search otherwise this is going to be a back and forth about well known issues.

#5 10 months ago
Quoted from Taxman:

I was trying to avoid the typing of what has been done before. Starting with -
What happens in the test mode? Is this when the right flipper makes it turn just fine? Bit then does the left flipper button make it "stutter" when going CC?
You need to search otherwise this is going to be a back and forth about well known issues.

Hi,

In mini pf test mode with door open, using the middle 2 buttons for left and right operation....

Right : completely normal operation. No stuttering. Optical sensor works great
Left : nothing happens at all, there no movement from the motor at all. But if move the board by hand the optical sensor trips and it registers that it has reached the left position.

So in summary, unlike the other posts, there’s no movement or stuttering or anything in one direction, and the other direction is completely normal. Both optos appear to be just fine.

#6 10 months ago
Quoted from Taxman:

I was trying to avoid the typing of what has been done before. Starting with -
What happens in the test mode? Is this when the right flipper makes it turn just fine? Bit then does the left flipper button make it "stutter" when going CC?
You need to search otherwise this is going to be a back and forth about well known issues.

No need to be rude, just don’t post if it bothers or inconveniences you

#7 10 months ago

Hi all

I do apologize if I caused frustration. However I did look through the forums and can’t see an issue like this where one direction works perfectly and the other does nothing. Both optos appear to be working ok too.

I’d appreciate any help or suggestions. Thanks.

#8 10 months ago

Can you post a picture of the wiring at the MPF motor? The red wire should be soldered to the tab with the red dot next to it.

#9 10 months ago
Quoted from Taxman:

I was trying to avoid the typing of what has been done before. Starting with -
What happens in the test mode? Is this when the right flipper makes it turn just fine? Bit then does the left flipper button make it "stutter" when going CC?
You need to search otherwise this is going to be a back and forth about well known issues.

being an arrogant ass doesn't help. either post the link, help the guy, or move on.

2 weeks later
#10 10 months ago

Hi all

This is really weird and still need help.

I changed the motor control board and it’s still the same. Here’s the really weird thing that happens with both the old and new board:

In test T15 mini play field it fails because the system won’t issue a “left” command but if I manually move the play field to the left while it’s doing the self test it reports the System is ok. Doing that enables me to go to continuous mode and that works perfectly, I can observe the system moving the pf left and right under its own power and the optical switches are registering fine.

So it’s only the left fillper (during game play) or the left button behind the coin door and the boot up self test that won’t move the motor to the left direction. How can this be?

I did just change the MPU board and transferred the 3 chips from the old board just before this happened. I replaced it with a rotten dog board. But everything else on the game is working correctly so it doesn’t seem like a general fault there.

So in summary: motor and optical switches and motor control board and diag in continuous mode appear to be ok. But diag at boot up and the “once” diag and the left flipper (during game play) won’t move the play field to the left (but to the right works).

Any thoughts?

#11 10 months ago

There are 2 Allen screws to tighten behind the POA playfield. Check them both.

#12 10 months ago

Hi
Thanks.

But given that it works in cont mode but not in once mode, doesn’t that indicate that the Allen screws are ok?

#13 10 months ago

Anyone have any ideas? The motor control board is ok. The options are ok. It’s not the flippers causing the issue because it also affects the test buttons behind the coin door.
Continuous diagnostic test mode works fine. And it’s onky one direction that’s a problem.

-1
#14 10 months ago
Quoted from mikoz:

It’s not the flippers causing the issue because it also affects the test buttons behind the coin door.

Don't quite understand this. Can you post a picture or video to help us understand?

#15 10 months ago

Ok let’s review.

At startup it complains about mini PF.

During game play, I cannot move the playfield left. I can move it right.

Using the diag test it does fail because the system won’t move it left. If I manually move the pf it passes and allows me to enter continuous diag mode.

Using the diag tests in continuous mode it works perfectly. This implies control board and optis and motor are fine.

#16 10 months ago

Do both upper and lower flipper buttons on both sides register in switch test? Best if you open the coin door so the flippers do not register the EOS switchss as it makes it tough to notice the flipper buttons registering.

#17 10 months ago

Hi,

Not sure I know what you mean by upper and lower flipper buttons. The primary left flipper will not move the play field left.
The left test button (-) in the coin door will not register a left movement... this is true with the coin door interlocks closed or open.
The boot up sequence when the play field is quickly moved left and right only moves the play field right.

The only time I can get it to move left is when it’s in continuous mode test T15 when it just goes back and forth without any buttons being pressed.

#18 10 months ago

Forget the test you are running and exit out of it. Go to the switch edge test and press the flipper buttons. Left flipper button should register left upper and lower flipper button switches and the right flipper button should register the right upper and lower flipper button switches. Do this test with the coin door open so the flippers do not activate.

I suspect the left upper flipper button opto is not registering in the switch test, which would be what controls the mini playfield to tilt to the left. You may get lucky and just cleaning them will get it working. Chance though the opto has failed.

#19 10 months ago

Mine did this and I cant remember why exactly...check the diode on the right bottom switch of the mini playfield to see if its shorting on the middle terminal of the switch. The ball can ricochet up and bend it over causing a short. this happened to mine but I don't remember if it caused the mini playfield issue. I have been racking my brain to remember

#20 10 months ago

Hi

But it’s not just the left flipper, the - button behind the coin door which is used in the mini pf test doesn’t cause it to move left either. The only thing that causes it to move left is in the Continuous diag mini Pf test...that works perfectly. It’s like it refuses to accept any input to move left. It’s not that it doesn’t make it all the way to the left, it just doesn’t move at all
I guess I’ll try to check the mini pf itself. Seems really weird though that it moves and detects the end of range via the Optos just fine

#21 10 months ago

The mini playfield starts off in the level position? I have my game on loan so I really can't dig too much until I can get in front of it again.

Can you post a picture of your MPU board? Hopefully you do not have any battery corrosion on the board.

#22 10 months ago

wow this guys not listening, the flipper optics control the movement, and has 2 individual optic's per switch that both need to work!

#23 10 months ago

I just replaced the MPU board. It’s brand new. No corrosion.

I am listening. I hear what you’re saying about the two optos but what I don’t understand is how can it move fine in continuous diag mode but not otherwise? Are you saying that one set of optis controls the stop movement and another set has a different purpose that would make it such that the board won’t move left from the flipper or - control board?

I ask because I tried a while ago to remove the opto board and the screw won’t come out, I’ll have to drill it out which I don’t want to do unless I have to.

Thanks all.

#24 10 months ago

It is possible that a diagnostic mode doesn’t have a fully closed loop with the sensors and just issues a command to move the motor and does not consider its physical position during the test. I am speculating, but often diags are not fully closed loop systems and often pinpoint a single component. It’s worth a shot at least in order to debug and isolate potential issues.

#25 10 months ago

You can also try moving the flipper optic boards and swapping them. Move right to left and vice versa and see if the issue follows the board or not. One more thing to narrow down. And switch test should show two switches actuating per flipper button press. Please ensure this is the case. It’s a quick test and will help folks help you.

Marc

-1
#26 10 months ago
Quoted from mikoz:

I ask because I tried a while ago to remove the opto board and the screw won’t come out, I’ll have to drill it out which I don’t want to do unless I have to.

We are referring to the flipper opto board inside the cabinet attached behind the flipper button. As mschonbrun suggested, swap the left and right flipper opto boards. Two wood screws should be holding the board in place against the cabinet.

#27 10 months ago

Hi all

First I do appreciate everyone’s help a lot. Ask my wife, she will tell you this is the first place I go when there’s a problem that takes longer than 10 minutes to troubleshoot.

I swapped out the opto board after struggling to remove it. I think someone glued as there was what looked like epoxy holding it. After that it worked perfectly. So it was the opto board.

Apparently the diag test in continuous mode doesn’t care at least about one opto. Lesson learned.

#28 10 months ago
Quoted from mikoz:

Hi all
First I do appreciate everyone’s help a lot. Ask my wife, she will tell you this is the first place I go when there’s a problem that takes longer than 10 minutes to troubleshoot.
I swapped out the opto board after struggling to remove it. I think someone glued as there was what looked like epoxy holding it. After that it worked perfectly. So it was the opto board.
Apparently the diag test in continuous mode doesn’t care at least about one opto. Lesson learned.

Good to hear that. Where you able to hit the ball with the left flipper when you were playing? If so, how can it work to move the flipper but not to move the POA? Anyone? Still learning myself....

#29 10 months ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Good to hear that. Where you able to hit the ball with the left flipper when you were playing? If so, how can it work to move the flipper but not to move the POA? Anyone? Still learning myself....

Yes, he would have been able to use the left flipper with no issues. Since this is only a 2 flipper game, the "upper" flipper button optos are used to enter your name for high scores and for controlling left/right movement of the mini playfield.

#30 10 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Yes, he would have been able to use the left flipper with no issues. Since this is only a 2 flipper game, the "upper" flipper button optos are used to enter your name for high scores and for controlling left/right movement of the mini playfield.

Awesome explanation! Thank you sir!

#31 10 months ago
Quoted from mikoz:

Hi all
First I do appreciate everyone’s help a lot. Ask my wife, she will tell you this is the first place I go when there’s a problem that takes longer than 10 minutes to troubleshoot.
I swapped out the opto board after struggling to remove it. I think someone glued as there was what looked like epoxy holding it. After that it worked perfectly. So it was the opto board.
Apparently the diag test in continuous mode doesn’t care at least about one opto. Lesson learned.

Great news. Congrats!

#32 10 months ago

To be clear, I swapped out the opto board of the mini play field, not the flipper opto boards...those were in great condition as I changed them not too long ago. The problem was solved by changing the mini play fields opto board, not the flippers.

#33 10 months ago
Quoted from mikoz:

To be clear, I swapped out the opto board of the mini play field, not the flipper opto boards...those were in great condition as I changed them not too long ago. The problem was solved by changing the mini play fields opto board, not the flippers.

Didn’t you say you put a new one in there about a year ago?

#34 10 months ago

I changed the motor control board (not the opto) board about 2 years ago...give or take, I don’t recall. I also put a new one in the other day, to shotgun the issue but obviously that didn’t fix it.

I changed both flipper boards also about 2 years ago, I did that because I was having some issues with the mini play field stuttering.

I changed the Mpu board last week. That was because of marginal problems with switches likely due to battery corrosion.

I changed the opto board of the mini play field for the first time today. I actually tried to proactively change it a while ago when I had that portion of the game apart cleaning it, but the board was glued onto the metal bracket for some reason and I decided to leave it alone. But I tackled it today. ===> This mini playfield opto board was the root cause of the issue in this thread.

Hope that helps someone. Again, the flipper optos were not the root cause.

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