Middleton, ID
ya cool, add me to kit list. i just picked up the pin a couple days ago
(Topic ID: 135599)
Linked Games
Indiana Jones
Stern, 2008
Topic Gallery
Leeds
2 months later
Quoted from pin-pimp:any updates on this? we are getting into this pin a lot now!
Yes I’m waiting for the latest revision of my new all in 1 controller boards to arrive.
Kits using proc boards are still available
2 weeks later
1 month later
Update on my indy project new controller boards. First a small recap, these new controller boards are a single board with everything that's needed to run my updated code including audio. The audio side of things was previously controlled by seperate audio amps, as seen in many 'boutique' pinball games like spooky games and highway games etc. Although this is a solution i never liked it and wanted something more contained and neat. Also the advance of rPi computer technology has meant on board computers can be added in place of seperate boxes. The 3rd thing was to re-engineer my own iso controller device to do away with the expensive and black box proc board. So, i/o and computer side of things had previously been cracked which left the audio side.
Today i have cracked that to. I have been over the past few months (since christmas) working on a design using audio amp ics which are popular with arcade games. I have also been learning about audio ground and digital ground! The main issue i was having previously was audio noise generated from the rPi being picked dup by the amplifier. Jeeping the 2 ground plans seperate until the external connector has now solved this.
So some pics and vids.
Latest board assembled being assembled before the ics, i/o and rPi controllers go in
indy i-o controller board v5 assembly - 1 (resized).jpg
Board being tested
indy i-o controller board v5 assembly - 2 (resized).jpg
Testing video
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAZ_AbdnV7k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
I'm testing it on bench using a crappy atx power supply so this is the worst i think it will sound in terms of any noise. Next is to swap out the earlier test board in my game and use this one to see what its like.
I am also working on some i/o updates to hopefully allow reading of some special switch info. Something that the proc board was unable to do. The sam system has some special switches that are read via the data bus not the usual switch matrix. These are things like the coin door voltage disable switch, the zero cross circuit and the lamp status etc. The most useful here is the coin door switch so you know when the hv is off and the door is open.
1 week later
Some pics of the new rgb display installed. (The rgb screen could also be used with ccc kits)
Also played for a good hour the other night and any lag on video modes is gone now with the latest design, the rpi4 and the off loading of the dmd processing to a slave controller. Mine cart is my go to test video mode, and its now silky smooth!!
DQqTXBt8TbeWK7DTAOh3ZQ (resized).jpgr0T63Gv9TiigOlcqv6ngrQ (resized).jpgObevlcmxRDCD4i9dO5kbAA (resized).jpg%FZUIwlsTMKg023dLXb3Jg (resized).jpg
I am also hoping to offer the full kit for £400 plus shipping for early adopters on this new kit. Thats as close to a single colour dmd as i can get i think (based on uk pricing). Regular price after that will be £450 plus shipping after that.
Thats also HALF the cost of the original kit using a proc board and bigger computer, seperate amp etc
Moe
Quoted from luvthatapex2:Tremendous impressive work Jim!
Thank you. The message is much appreciated 
Quoted from CookyJar:The new board looks good and not out of place in the machine.
Does it work with the original plasma DMD?
No, it only works with either an LCD screen like before, or with my new rgb led display
This is nuts! Holy cow!!! Very impressive!!!! What an endeavor!!! Makes me want to get a Stern Indy just to do this!
Quoted from applejuice:No, it only works with either an LCD screen like before, or with my new rgb led display
Sorry if this sounds stupid, but does that mean the Color DMD LCD/LED displays will work?
I've been thinking about purchasing one for my machine and also been thinking about being an early adopter for your board set, it looks awesome! The only thing really holding me back is my lack of "fun money" due to a loss of income flow because of the whole COVID situation.
Quoted from applejuice:A pic of how the backbox now looks with just the new hardware in now. Much cleaner and factory looking
[quoted image]
Does this run PyProcGame?
Quoted from CookyJar:Sorry if this sounds stupid, but does that mean the Color DMD LCD/LED displays will work?
I've been thinking about purchasing one for my machine and also been thinking about being an early adopter for your board set, it looks awesome! The only thing really holding me back is my lack of "fun money" due to a loss of income flow because of the whole COVID situation.
No the display is my own design rgb led display. It uses the same display led hardware as colordmd led panels. The only other game it could work with right now is ccc
Quoted from TheBEAVR:Does this run PyProcGame?
Yes, my rewrite has always run on top of it. The version I use was forked years back
Edmonton, AB
Quoted from transprtr4u:So what's the pricing including boards and display?
Fantastic work , great read.
See here
Paris
A working coin door open message. Something thats been missing from my rewrite for a number of years until now. Stern sam hardware does not use a regular coin door closed switch like other game hardware and uses instead data from the driver board sent back on the data bus as a read. More complex to sort out, but its solved now
Quoted from applejuice:A working coin door open message. Something thats been missing from my rewrite for a number of years until now. Stern sam hardware does not use a regular coin door closed switch like other game hardware and uses instead data from the driver board sent back on the data bus as a read. More complex to sort out, but its solved now
[quoted image]
Great job, should have hard to track.
1 month later
First generation new hardware kits are now available and taking orders. I fixed the final firmware issue today that i've been working on, so now offering the new board and rgb led display as a full drop in kit to folks. Price is £450 plus shipping to begin with. That includes everything you need i.e a new hardware board that is a direct replacement for your old cpu board (keep it somewhere safe) and a new full colour rgb led display to replace your old orange dmd. (keep it safe somewhere to ). I think its a pretty good price for a completely new game and colour display included.
Drop me a pm if you want a kit for your stern indy. I will build them to order.
Cheers
Picked up this IJ in really good shape recently and just discovered this thread. Will this kit be available in the U.S. as well, and is there any gameplay video out there of the setup in action?
Quoted from applejuice:First generation new hardware kits are now available and taking orders. I fixed the final firmware issue today that i've been working on, so now offering the new board and rgb led display as a full drop in kit to folks. Price is £450 plus shipping to begin with. That includes everything you need i.e a new hardware board that is a direct replacement for your old cpu board (keep it somewhere safe) and a new full colour rgb led display to replace your old orange dmd. (keep it safe somewhere to ). I think its a pretty good price for a completely new game and colour display included.
Drop me a pm if you want a kit for your stern indy. I will build them to order.
Cheers
Simply incredible work, Jim. I would love to see some game play video!
Incredible work as always Jim. A huge accomplishment that deserves to be really successful. What are the plans around opening up the hardware platform for other homebrew efforts? I suppose it could work with any pyprocgane project, or any other game software that could run on a pi?
Quoted from stumblor:Incredible work as always Jim. A huge accomplishment that deserves to be really successful. What are the plans around opening up the hardware platform for other homebrew efforts? I suppose it could work with any pyprocgane project, or any other game software that could run on a pi?
+1, it has great potential for sure
To answer a few questions on the indy rules.
If you have a look at this doc it should explain what the 4th film modes are that i created and also how the williams game embeds into this alternative playfield layout.
Shortish Game Play video (around 15 mins). Gives a flavour of what this is all about Running the latest code and from the new hardware etc. Wish I was a better player when videoing as I missed loads of shots ha ha ha, but should give an idea of what its like anyway. Will shoot more vids to and add to my youtube channel as I get time.
Quoted from applejuice:Shortish Game Play video (around 15 mins). Gives a flavour of what this is all about Running the latest code and from the new hardware etc. Wish I was a better player when videoing as I missed loads of shots ha ha ha, but should give an idea of what its like anyway. Will shoot more vids to and add to my youtube channel as I get time.
Looks fantastic. Really great job.
Terrific work Jim. I would definitely get this if I had a Stern IJ. It makes it a totally new game. Awesome.
3 months later
I don't own the game and haven't got to play this cool port over. I was wondering if you might be willing to remove the Williams logo since this is the Stern game. Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it.
4 months later
Should have a new firmware update out soon for my hardware board. Rolling in some of improvements from the sister system 11 project i have been working on for my whirlwind project. If you have a board in your indy and want to update the main controller, then please get in touch via pm. Played some great games on indy today whilst testing it.
6 months later
1 year later
We installed the AppleJuice system into the VFW Stern Indiana Jones last night. It's a nice system you have constructed. And the Dmd colorization is really well done!
We made many notes... there really needs to be some changes made. The Law will post our rule comments. But if you have the decal overlays for the playfield, can you please post a link? PDF or Photoshop format would be great.
A few things that really need to be done though...
1. flipper coils... flipper hold is not correct. After about 30 minutes of play you can SMELL the flipper coils starting to burn. To the point where you can't touch the coils. That means the code handling of the 'hold' is incorrect. probably need to change the duty cycle on that. Also there should be an adjustment in the settings for flipper strength. I think the stock setting you have is adequate, but frankly, it's not sufficient. New sterns have pretty kick-ass flipper power. Your game however, has flippers that work, but are not "kick ass". adding a flipper strength setting would be helpful for those that are more "power hungry."
2. Diagnostics needs help. I would treat the diagnostics like williams does. that is, when you enter diagnostics, STOP the current game. I know new sterns don't do this... but you are running the game in the background as the diagnostics are running! (the game score actually changes during diagnostics!) This is a really bad idea. Also you need an "all lamps" test... like WPC games. Lamps + Flashers would be great too.
3. Tilt does not seem to work. in diagnostics it works. but in game play, not so much. Maybe add a tilt adjustment (switch bounce adjustment, as stern now calls it.)
4. Ball search. Set ball search to the lowest number (10), and it's like a minute before any ball search happens (if at all.) Maybe allow ball search to go below 10? i don't know, but something needs to happen.
5. The Arch. it's the cool toy in the game, yet it is used almost never! that really needs to change. (If it were me, i would make at least 25% to 50% of the mutiballs use the arch.) In fact, we played for about 2 hours last night, and the arch didn't release balls, not even once. Went into diagnostics and the arch is working. And to that effect, you need a separate Arch diagnostic test. Pulsing the motor in coil test is not that helpful. you need a test that loads and unloads balls, and shows optic switch status.
6. Attract mode. Man it gives me a headache. I think the lights just cycle "too fast". this needs some serious work. As an example, look at the custom games from Expo 2022 (videos on youtube), and you'll see the IJ attract mode is not very attractive, in comparison. I know it seems trivial, but it IS an important aspect to any modern game.
7. mode selection. it's really unclear about the modes. The Law will interject more on this issue, and the rules in general. But you need to add some on-screen text or graphics or sound to signify modes. Since you have lifted many of the modes from the wpc indy, the inserts on the playfield just do not reflect what is going on. Therefore added screen text/graphics/sound would be most helpful.
8. Added speech. we see you've lifted speech from the movie/wpc game. that's very cool. But you need additional custom speech call outs. If you need help with this, we can come up with some solutions. But it is needed since the ruleset does not match the playfield graphics. Added speech calls would help clarify things.
9. Delay in switch closures. Seems like when you hit a switch, it's nearly a full second before the game "sees" it. This may also be the problem with the tilt, or lack of tilt.
10. Boot up time. It takes 1 minute 5 seconds for the game to go into attract mode. that's crazy long! any chance that could be shortened??
Hopefully The Law will post next with his comments on the rules and other stuff...
Quoted from cfh:We installed the AppleJuice system into the VFW Stern Indiana Jones last night. It's a nice system you have constructed. And the Dmd colorization is really well done!
We made many notes... there really needs to be some changes made. The Law will post our rule comments. But if you have the decal overlays for the playfield, can you please post a link? PDF or Photoshop format would be great.
A few things that really need to be done though...
1. flipper coils... flipper hold is not correct. After about 30 minutes of play you can SMELL the flipper coils starting to burn. To the point where you can't touch the coils. That means the code handling of the 'hold' is incorrect. probably need to change the duty cycle on that. Also there should be an adjustment in the settings for flipper strength. I think the stock setting you have is adequate, but frankly, it's not sufficient. New sterns have pretty kick-ass flipper power. Your game however, has flippers that work, but are not "kick ass". adding a flipper strength setting would be helpful for those that are more "power hungry."
2. Diagnostics needs help. I would treat the diagnostics like williams does. that is, when you enter diagnostics, STOP the current game. I know new sterns don't do this... but you are running the game in the background as the diagnostics are running! (the game score actually changes during diagnostics!) This is a really bad idea. Also you need an "all lamps" test... like WPC games. Lamps + Flashers would be great too.
3. Tilt does not seem to work. in diagnostics it works. but in game play, not so much. Maybe add a tilt adjustment (switch bounce adjustment, as stern now calls it.)
4. Ball search. Set ball search to the lowest number (10), and it's like a minute before any ball search happens (if at all.) Maybe allow ball search to go below 10? i don't know, but something needs to happen.
5. The Arch. it's the cool toy in the game, yet it is used almost never! that really needs to change. (If it were me, i would make at least 25% to 50% of the mutiballs use the arch.) In fact, we played for about 2 hours last night, and the arch didn't release balls, not even once. Went into diagnostics and the arch is working. And to that effect, you need a separate Arch diagnostic test. Pulsing the motor in coil test is not that helpful. you need a test that loads and unloads balls, and shows optic switch status.
6. Attract mode. Man it gives me a headache. I think the lights just cycle "too fast". this needs some serious work. As an example, look at the custom games from Expo 2022 (videos on youtube), and you'll see the IJ attract mode is not very attractive, in comparison. I know it seems trivial, but it IS an important aspect to any modern game.
7. mode selection. it's really unclear about the modes. The Law will interject more on this issue, and the rules in general. But you need to add some on-screen text or graphics or sound to signify modes. Since you have lifted many of the modes from the wpc indy, the inserts on the playfield just do not reflect what is going on. Therefore added screen text/graphics/sound would be most helpful.
8. Added speech. we see you've lifted speech from the movie/wpc game. that's very cool. But you need additional custom speech call outs. If you need help with this, we can come up with some solutions. But it is needed since the ruleset does not match the playfield graphics. Added speech calls would help clarify things.
9. Delay in switch closures. Seems like when you hit a switch, it's nearly a full second before the game "sees" it. This may also be the problem with the tilt, or lack of tilt.
10. Boot up time. It takes 1 minute 5 seconds for the game to go into attract mode. that's crazy long! any chance that could be shortened??
Hopefully The Law will post next with his comments on the rules and other stuff...
Thanks for the comment and taking the time to write such a detailed post. I do appreciate all comments and feedback etc. I will try and answer everything in more detail later, but first please see this detailed rules sheet for the game. Hopefully this explains how the rules work on this playfield etc.
https://www.mypinballs.com/files/indy-rules_v103.pdf
The important thing to remember with this kit is that it aims to implement the full williams indiana jones game with extras (4 extras film modes etc for the 4th film, ark ball releases etc) into the stern playfield. Some understanding of the Williams indy game is assumed. I think it does this pretty well once you understand the layout etc.
OK great thanks for commenting. But does this mean that you will address my 10 points? A lot of those points really need some work. If you wanna ignore the mode stuff that’s fine. But all the other things really need to be addressed if you want this to be a full-fledged professional product. Because right now I would have a hard time keeping the game in its current form on the VFW floor. There’s just too many issues
Oh another thing I forgot to mention was in relation to the Shooter Lane and the Auto ball shooter. After a ball leaves the shooter lane and touches any switch on the play field, the shooter lane should become “hot “. That is if a ball ends up in the shooter lane, it should Auto kick it into the play field. All games do this regardless of who made it, except for yours. This really needs to be addressed
Quoted from cfh:We installed the AppleJuice system into the VFW Stern Indiana Jones last night. It's a nice system you have constructed. And the Dmd colorization is really well done!
We made many notes... there really needs to be some changes made. The Law will post our rule comments. But if you have the decal overlays for the playfield, can you please post a link? PDF or Photoshop format would be great.
A few things that really need to be done though...
1. flipper coils... flipper hold is not correct. After about 30 minutes of play you can SMELL the flipper coils starting to burn. To the point where you can't touch the coils. That means the code handling of the 'hold' is incorrect. probably need to change the duty cycle on that. Also there should be an adjustment in the settings for flipper strength. I think the stock setting you have is adequate, but frankly, it's not sufficient. New sterns have pretty kick-ass flipper power. Your game however, has flippers that work, but are not "kick ass". adding a flipper strength setting would be helpful for those that are more "power hungry."
2. Diagnostics needs help. I would treat the diagnostics like williams does. that is, when you enter diagnostics, STOP the current game. I know new sterns don't do this... but you are running the game in the background as the diagnostics are running! (the game score actually changes during diagnostics!) This is a really bad idea. Also you need an "all lamps" test... like WPC games. Lamps + Flashers would be great too.
3. Tilt does not seem to work. in diagnostics it works. but in game play, not so much. Maybe add a tilt adjustment (switch bounce adjustment, as stern now calls it.)
4. Ball search. Set ball search to the lowest number (10), and it's like a minute before any ball search happens (if at all.) Maybe allow ball search to go below 10? i don't know, but something needs to happen.
5. The Arch. it's the cool toy in the game, yet it is used almost never! that really needs to change. (If it were me, i would make at least 25% to 50% of the mutiballs use the arch.) In fact, we played for about 2 hours last night, and the arch didn't release balls, not even once. Went into diagnostics and the arch is working. And to that effect, you need a separate Arch diagnostic test. Pulsing the motor in coil test is not that helpful. you need a test that loads and unloads balls, and shows optic switch status.
6. Attract mode. Man it gives me a headache. I think the lights just cycle "too fast". this needs some serious work. As an example, look at the custom games from Expo 2022 (videos on youtube), and you'll see the IJ attract mode is not very attractive, in comparison. I know it seems trivial, but it IS an important aspect to any modern game.
7. mode selection. it's really unclear about the modes. The Law will interject more on this issue, and the rules in general. But you need to add some on-screen text or graphics or sound to signify modes. Since you have lifted many of the modes from the wpc indy, the inserts on the playfield just do not reflect what is going on. Therefore added screen text/graphics/sound would be most helpful.
8. Added speech. we see you've lifted speech from the movie/wpc game. that's very cool. But you need additional custom speech call outs. If you need help with this, we can come up with some solutions. But it is needed since the ruleset does not match the playfield graphics. Added speech calls would help clarify things.
9. Delay in switch closures. Seems like when you hit a switch, it's nearly a full second before the game "sees" it. This may also be the problem with the tilt, or lack of tilt.
10. Boot up time. It takes 1 minute 5 seconds for the game to go into attract mode. that's crazy long! any chance that could be shortened??
Hopefully The Law will post next with his comments on the rules and other stuff...
Ok as promised let me answer these 10 points..
1) Please check the software version is v0.82 or higher, as i know we adjusted some flipper timings for hold duty from a 2ms on 18ms off to a 2ms on 24ms off. You can find the current software rev by opening the coin door and also by pressing the service enter button
2a) Stopping the game when entering the test mode i will look at. or stopping any further scoring etc.
2b) There is a detailed lamp test in the service menu. When you enter the lamp test you can press enter to cycle through the different lamp tests avaialbe. these are: Single Manual (start button activates), Single Repeat, Single Auto, All on/off, individual Rows, individual Columns
2c) Flashers are tested from he coils menu but yes maybe a flashers and lamps all on would be good to
See pics
Screenshot 2022-11-10 at 15.26.50 (resized).png
Screenshot 2022-11-10 at 15.28.12 (resized).png
3) Will need to check this. I thought it was working ok.
4) Ball search should be activated within 10-15 secs of no switch activations, There are various ball search cancel and reset switches to so check for any switches stuck etc, but i will need to check this to. I thought it was working ok.
5a) Ark release is part of the mulitball rules as something that you can qualify to that the next multiball includes all the balls from it aswell as the trough. See the rules sheet for details.
5b) There is already a detailed ark test that will unload and reload the balls in it and store how many are stored there. This update allows you to change how many balls are stored in there from 2 to 6.
Screenshot 2022-11-10 at 15.29.06 (resized).png
5c) Additionally there is also a detailed trough test.
Screenshot 2022-11-10 at 15.29.20 (resized).png
6) Attract mode has various lamp pattern sweeps not just a blinking effect. You just have to leave it for a minute or so and it will change the patterns.
7) See the rule sheet. Its pretty straight forward.
There are alot of speech calls. Every call from the williams game in the same place as they are used modes, multi balls, features etc. plus loads of callouts from the stern game to and the films. Press the flipper buttons in attract for example.
9) Not noticed anything specific here. It is a delay with a sound call or a graphics update?. Is the score updating correctly from the switch press.
10) Boot up time is dependent on the rPI4 startup. I am still working to improve the time frame, but its never going to be like a wpc game speed wise at boot.
Quoted from cfh:Oh another thing I forgot to mention was in relation to the Shooter Lane and the Auto ball shooter. After a ball leaves the shooter lane and touches any switch on the play field, the shooter lane should become “hot “. That is if a ball ends up in the shooter lane, it should Auto kick it into the play field. All games do this regardless of who made it, except for yours. This really needs to be addressed
Balls are autolaunched form the shooter lane when they should be just like other games with the mech. ie on a ball save, when balls are needed for multiball, when add a balls are awarded etc etc. There is a skill shot on the shooter lane ramp though so the game takes this into account as to when to auto launch a ball sitting and when not to.
Don't know what the version is but we just got it so I don't know why it wouldn't be the most current version.
1. Upper Captive ball ejection seems random. During a mode focused on this area the ball did not eject; so the mode could not be played.
2. All switches are super duper slow...spinner does not score correctly and lags far behind.
3. Auto Launching balls is a bit of a mess. During well of souls each launched ball needs to hit a PF switch before another ball is launched. Just ends up being a bunch of balls stuck in the shooter lane than can't be launched over working the coil.
4. Green insert constantly flashing for dogfight is a bit annoying.
I need to read the rule sheet which will probably fill me in on other questions I had.
Quoted from TheLaw:Don't know what the version is but we just got it so I don't know why it wouldn't be the most current version.
1. Upper Captive ball ejection seems random. During a mode focused on this area the ball did not eject; so the mode could not be played.2. All switches are super duper slow...spinner does not score correctly and lags far behind.
3. Auto Launching balls is a bit of a mess. During well of souls each launched ball needs to hit a PF switch before another ball is launched. Just ends up being a bunch of balls stuck in the shooter lane than can't be launched over working the coil.
4. Green insert constantly flashing for dogfight is a bit annoying.
I need to read the rule sheet which will probably fill me in on other questions I had.
Well the mode you videod was castle grunwald which is using the 2 captive balls not the Ball inside the map room so yes it works fine if you hit those captive balls..
Please read the rules and learn the game or ask me if you want to know something. Guessing isn’t gonna help.
Also, if you are getting multiple balls in the shooter lane during multiball mode launches such as well of souls mode then you should check the auto launcher mech and how strong it is at getting a ball upto the top of the shooter ramp and if it’s been rebuilt. Stern issued a service kit for this specific reason with some mechanical parts To change/update to make it stronger
The design of the ramp is poor because it has no escape gate exit etc half way. I have thought about this many times and launching balls slowly isn’t fun because it takes ages to get 5 balls in play
On my game and many other peoples games I don’t see this type of issue but I am always interested to hear how things work on another game etc. Things can be refined if I see it as an improvement for all games etc
No this game has a good auto launch. But it does kind of remind me of guns and roses and the problems with the auto launch on that. There should always be a switch at the top arc of the Shooter Lane. and another ball should never be put into the shooter lane if potentially the last ball is going to roll backwards and end up with two balls in the shooter lane. Because once that happens it’s game over. Glass must come off. And sometimes a burned up transistor from repeated auto launch fires
This game the Arc is long on the shooter lane. So you would have to check the two left side outside lane rollover switches for closure if you really wanted to do this implementation. Don’t put another ball in the shooter lane until you see one of those two switches close. It would make auto firing multiple balls a slower process. But it would also make the game more bulletproof on location.
Another thing that could be done is modify the plastic ramp on the right side in the shooter lane arc. A one-way gate could be added and a cut out made in the side of the plastic ramp as a ball exit strategy
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