Indiana Jones power driver board rebuild total failure

Hi guys,

Norway calling! My IJ has been resetting lately, so I thought I'd go the route of recapping the power driver board. I bought a power driver rebuild kit from Marco's (http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/WPC-PDA12697X) and went to work.

I replaced the bridge rectifiers (green in my picture) and the capacitators (yellow). I had a hard time of getting some of the old parts out, but I thought I was in the clear when it comes to loose solder pads and such. I'm fairly poor at soldering though, so some of the solder joints were not as pretty as they should have been to say the least.

When I was done, inserted the board into the machine and switched on, there was an instant loud crackle in the speakers, and the display flashed and went dead - except for a couple of dots which seem random. No bootup or game sounds, no playfield action. Nothing really. Some of the leds on the board remain lit though. I was hoping you guys perhaps could help me with a pointer as to which caps or bridge rectifiers are the culprits by looking at the leds that are lit (red in my picture). All fuses check out fine as far as I can tell.

Any pointers would be great! And should_ I have messed up some solder pads on the board, is that the end of the line? Or is the card salvageable with skills lower than average?

Cheers,
Archieball

wmskit_(resized).png

WPCleds_(resized).png

#2 8 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

You most probably pulled through holes when you removed the caps. You need to buzz traces now to identify the broken circuit connections. Repair those broken connections using a solder stitch, or give your apparent experience, jumper from point to point (Argh!).

For future readers, wholesale replacement of bridges and caps is not recommended. Leave well enough alone. Don't shotgun replace perfectly good parts. Identify the root cause and precisely target your repairs. None of those caps other than C5 is likely to have been at the root cause. And even C5 is questionable of the checklist in the PinWiki hasn't been followed.

Good luck sir
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#3 8 years ago

HAK

Archieball

Argh indeed! :/

But thanks, feedback much appreciated. You are most likely right that I have messed up a hole then. And given my skill level, I am afraid I am looking at doing jumper wires (as I have just googled "solder stitch"). About shotgunning, you are probably right and I typically had to learn the hard way.

If anybody can connect the dots so to speak between the leds in the one picture and then the relevant circuits/caps/bridge rectifiers in the other it would help a great deal.

Cheers,
Archieball

#4 8 years ago

HAK

Archieball

#5 8 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Solder stitch article...
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#Repairing_traces_or_creating_a_.22solder_stitch.22
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#6 8 years ago

JWJ

johnwartjr

That Pinball Place

Columbus, IN

12y 77,400 6,479 14

I would say Marco is not being very responsible selling a kit like that.

First off, C8 *rarely* fails, and C2 and C4 are frequent failures on the driver board, and they aren't included.

As Chris has stated, replacing all those caps and bridges is not a good idea as 'standard' maintenance, as there are a lot of opportunities to take a 'mostly' working board, and turn one problem into multiple problems. With 5 bridges and 6 caps, that's 32 places to mess up the soldering.

And Chris, myself, and plenty of other techs have been taxed with fixing the aftermath more times than you might believe.

There are really very few situations where shotgunning is a good idea. High voltage circuits for displays probably being the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head.

On the bright side, it's a good opportunity to learn how to read a schematic and troubleshoot things.

#7 8 years ago

TAB

terryb

Inactive member

Banning, CA

11y 90,150 4,795 14

OP
Quoted from Archieball:
If anybody can connect the dots so to speak between the leds in the one picture and then the relevant circuits/caps/bridge rectifiers in the other it would help a great deal.

Zaza is your man for that so hopefully he will see this thread (or you could PM him).

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
For future readers, wholesale replacement of bridges and caps is not recommended. Leave well enough alone.

I'll double down on this. Not picking on you OP, a lot of people make this mistake.

Can you provide some hi-res photos of both sides of the board where the work was done. You'll still need to ring out the circuits, but it's possible some problems could be spotted.

#8 8 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 92,650 3,266

OP
Quoted from Archieball:
I was hoping you guys perhaps could help me with a pointer as to which caps or bridge rectifiers are the culprits by looking at the leds that are lit (red in my picture).

Quoted from terryb:
Zaza is your man for that so hopefully he will see this thread

Later tonight (GMT+1) I can come up with a picture but I'm not sure it is going to help.

#9 8 years ago

JSG

Thor-NL

Pinside member

Breda

11y 97,650 2,289 8

Quoted from zaza:
Later tonight (GMT+1) I can come up with a picture but I'm not sure it is going to help.

Your pictures are always helpfull

#10 8 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 92,650 3,266

No, not always
useless_selfportrait_(resized).jpg

This is 1st to check
LED4 / 5 Volt
LED1 / 12Volt regulated
LED7 / 12Volt unregulated power

pdb_intersection_(resized).jpg

#11 8 years ago

SKL

SOKOL

Inactive member

11y 19,700 58

You did 2 or 3 mistake when you pulled the original capacitors.
(My English is not enough to tell, but i try it.

1, The 5V is missing so the MPU and other boards does not work.
2, The 20V for flash lamp missing too.

#12 8 years ago

SKL

SOKOL

Inactive member

11y 19,700 58

At first please check the contacts between these two-two points with the Digital Multimeter.

contacts_(resized).jpg

#13 8 years ago

HAK

Archieball

Guys, this is beyond what I expected. Even from such a great community as pinside. Thanks!

I know for a fact that the attached pictures will induce a lot of headshaking, cursing and worse. Still, I have to leave you with the carnage of my soldering, just as a warning to any novice who want to take on shotgun part swapping and poor eyesight soldering in the middle of the night...

And again, thanks to Sokol, Zaza, John, Chris and the rest of you. I will do the checks and come back.

IMG_5919_(resized).JPG

IMG_5924_(resized).JPG

IMG_5925_(resized).JPG

IMG_5927_(resized).JPG

#14 8 years ago

JSG

Thor-NL

Pinside member

Breda

11y 97,650 2,289 8

Ahh such a relief, no bickering, no price policing, ... just help each other out!

(OP please post your proceedings in this post so people can learn for future searchs)

#15 8 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Your soldering doesn't look that bad. It was your desoldering that caused the issues. Zaza's image should help.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#16 8 years ago

HAK

Archieball

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-soldering-guide-part-1

Oki, so here is what I've come up with. And let me just say it for you, I've done a sloppy job.

Using Zaza's excellent roadmap, I checked all connections. I have attached a labeled picture of the problem areas, and I will comment them here.

A: This cap is, well, loose. Turns out that both solder pads have come off. The connections work when I push the cap down, but since that is not very practical when I am shooting for the Path of Destiny I will have to mend this somehow.
B: This connection - or rather lack of connection - puzzles me. I assume I should measure from the (in the picture) leftmost end of the resistor R260 and to the 12V regulator at Q2, but my multimeter does not really beep.
C: Here it does not really beep either. I have the multimeter set to the continuity/diode/beep test. It does, like at B above, show a fluctuating number, but I am not really sure what to make of this. The bad guy here seems to be the bridge rectifier, because I get continuity from the capacitator and further down the line.
D: From the test point to the cap I get no reading whatsoever. Also from the point at C6 to the point at C7 I get a constantly rising number on the multimeter, but this is perhaps as it should be?

In sum I would say that I have a long way ahead. I need to figure out where and how I should work around the fact that I don't have solder pads on C30, and also how to address the other issues mentioned. I don't feel as lost now though as I did before, so thanks for that. Hey, I might (should) even learn something from this. Further input very much appreciated!

Cheers from Oslo!

Archieball

WPC_problemareas_(resized).jpg

#17 8 years ago

TAB

terryb

Inactive member

Banning, CA

11y 90,150 4,795 14

I've seen a lot worse soldering, but as Chris said the problem was with the desoldering. You need to check all through-holes and pads before soldering the new components in place since they cannot be properly tested or visually inspected (since the joints/traces are now hidden) afterwards.

In those cases were your reading is fluctuating you either have a cold solder joint or the through-hole is blown. Sometimes just the pressure of the lead on the joint can create a good reading (or fluctuating reading) where you have a bad joint.

The following article will help with your soldering/desoldering and provide info on some of the advanced repairs if you are going to try and fix this yourself. Honestly I would think about sending it out to a pro (like Chris). Personally I would remove all of the previously replaced components (w/o doing more damage) and inspect all traces, pads and through-holes. Then go from there.

Post last edited 8 years ago: “Clarified.”

#18 8 years ago

TAB

terryb

Inactive member

Banning, CA

11y 90,150 4,795 14

I went through the photos and circled any suspect looking joints (some duplicates obviously, but depending on the angle I may have caught something in one photo that I missed in another). Most of them look like the pad or through-hole has been damaged and thus why you didn't get good solder flow. Hard to be exact w/o the board in my hands to view at different angles, but at least this may give you some areas to look at. No guarantee I caught them all --or didn't circle a good joint.

IJ-1_(resized).jpg
IJ-2_(resized).jpg
IJ-3_(resized).jpg
IJ-4_(resized).jpg

#19 8 years ago

ZAZ

zaza

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 92,650 3,266

OP
Quoted from Archieball:
B: This connection - or rather lack of connection - puzzles me. I assume I should measure from the (in the picture) leftmost end of the resistor R260 and to the 12V regulator at Q2, but my multimeter does not really beep.

No, R260 is in 50Volt circuit. It is from BR1(+) to D1 to D2 etc. More detailed picture:
12reg_wpc089_exp_(resized).PNG

OP
Quoted from Archieball:
C: Here it does not really beep either............
D: From the test point to the cap I get no reading whatsoever. Also from the point at C6 to the point at C7 I get a constantly rising number on the multimeter, but this is perhaps as it should be?

The through holes have to be repaired for all these problems with stitches or other techniques.

2 weeks later

#20 8 years ago

HAK

Archieball

Hi again guys, for the sake of my conscience I have to wrap up this thread with big thanks to everybody who got involved. Sokol, terryb, zaza and the rest. I have learnt a lot! In the end I deemed it too much of a challenge to try to mend this with stiches though, so I sent the board off to Chris like terryb suggested. I am currently reading terryb's guide to soldering to avoid messing up my next project which is to socket some ICs on an arcade board. So thanks again guys!

#21 8 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Hey Archieball,

The board arrived here safely today. Nice packing!
There were numerous pulled through holes. I've "stitched" them up and added a couple more reliability improvements.
Now...to ship back to Norway.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

1 month later

#22 8 years ago

HAK

Archieball

The board well received and and currently running well in my Indiana Jones! This is what you call a happy ending!

Many thanks to Chris for excellent and fast workmanship.

#23 8 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler