(Topic ID: 267418)

Indiana Jones playfield swap and restoration

By RCSP

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by RCSP
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    #3 3 years ago

    I added links to all of the photos that I took throughout my restoration on the first page of my restoration thread. You can just browse them directly that way... and there are quite a few more than what I have posted.

    #6 3 years ago

    That is the glue that held the vinyl substrate onto the cabinet. You have to sand that off. Use a more aggressive grit... 80... then work your way back to 320. Some people use stripper... I don't like putting goop on the wood but it does work.

    Its a bitch but it will come off.

    #9 3 years ago

    I'd probably hit it with the heat gun and the scraper a bit more before the acetone... you'd be surprised at the amount of heat you can put to it without damaging the wood. But yeah... acetone is one of my favorite solvents... it is a terrific thinner too. When you take the metal brackets out of your back-box soak them in acetone for about 1/2 day... the paint will rub right off and they will shine up nicely.

    3 weeks later
    #17 3 years ago

    Not gonna lie I found installing decals very stressful. Interesting... "paper fibers that stick to the back of the decal"... where did you get your decals? The paper backing on mine cut very clean and did't leave any debris at all.

    It's a wonderful feeling having it done though.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    They were RadCals. Might be because I used a scissors and not a razor blade.

    Oh... ok I've never dealt with RadCals before. I've only seen threads on them. Aren't they fairly rigid.. and somewhat fault tolerant of the cabinet surface? ... unlike traditional decals which are very thin vinyl.... and will show the cabinet imperfections. But then again... I've no experience with RadCals so what the heck do I know anyway

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    The power supply has 8 plastic bushings where the bolts go through it. Are those needed? I have 4 and another 4 were broken.

    Power supply? I’m not sure what aspect you are referring to. When I think of the power supply I’m thinking the power entry box ... the transformer and the WPC driver board.

    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I mean the transformer, that huge brick! Thanks. The 8 fragile hard off-white plastic bushings that go into the mounting brackets and slightly into the transformer.

    On my transformer there are only 4 ... one under each screw head (like your pic)... on the other side there are only kep nuts.

    #29 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I never realized they only used 4. Thanks for the info. Also thanks Chad for the link.
    I got the lines pretty close
    [quoted image]

    Very nice indeed!

    1 week later
    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    What’s the best way to fix these pieces? Do they sell the material used to wrap them?
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    I've never tried or heard of anyone trying to re-wrap or fix those...

    You can buy that railing by the foot from pinballlife you will need to cut it to length and drill it yourself :
    https://www.pinballlife.com/black-vinyl-wrapped-wood-rail-for-playfield-edges-1-18-x-12.html

    Or you could go with new lacquer coated solid oak, pre-cut pre-drilled from Reese Rails TaylorVA : https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/oak-replacement-playfield-rails-wh2o-and-taf-ready-to-ship-or-york#post-1944096

    Reese Rails is the better option... a bit more pricey so it’s a budget call... but they do look great and won’t ever peel apart.

    #39 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Does anyone know if I can see how many of these posts are used by IJ? I did a part lookup on Pinball Life, but there was no match for the post in this link
    https://www.pinballlife.com/1-716-tall-metal-post-with-cutaway-with-wood-screw-base.html
    I'm not sure where they go either, some were already removed when I started this project.
    Thanks!

    2 of them ... one goes under the right slingshot plastics to guide the rubber and the other goes above the wire guide on the left outlane.

    playfield (resized).jpgplayfield (resized).jpg

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    You rock! I'm working on Indy now. Raining and windy. Lights flickering, only a matter of time until I lose power.

    Sounds exciting ... for me populating the playfield was the most fun of the entire project.... least fun... painting and cleaning metal fitments.

    I have these links in my thread... but since you are in the thick of it...here are all my photos... they may come in handy if you need a quick reference:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/PKPTgfgCzVQE7CAc8
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/YqD2j2eZacimqy3g9

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Those pics will help a lot ricochet because I have no clue how the playfield goes together! I saw you greasing the transmission and I forgot all about that. UGGG.
    How did you get the metal ramps so shiny? I have a friend with a bead blaster but that makes the surface so every fingerprint shows.

    I used this to take away the ball trails:

    DEWALT Flap Wheel, 3-Inch x 1-Inch x 1/4-Inch HP, 240-Grit (DAFE1H2410) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003N9BT6E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_L2y4Eb1WH0FDS

    I used this to polish:

    3M Scotch-Brite Fine-Finishing Sander (9416NA) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004Z4DK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_G3y4EbCKD50RA

    For stuff that I couldn’t use the wheel for, I used 400 grit wet sandpaper and a maroon scuff pad from the auto parts store.

    Depending upon how deep your trails are you may need to get a more aggressive grit.

    The scuff pad can be used to finish up any surface even if you don’t get it quite right with the wheel. I found it to work very well.

    It’s an elbow grease job

    A666F908-6C60-4F3A-A864-5C865C1B03CE (resized).jpegA666F908-6C60-4F3A-A864-5C865C1B03CE (resized).jpeg

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I'm not sure what to use to attach the large metal brackets that attach at the bottom (near the player) that hold up the PF when you pull the PF out a foot and set it down. I have the close end attached with the bracket that stops the PF from going down into the cabinet (also holds apron), but the bracket at the far end goes into a hole that goes through the PF. I suppose it's a screw with a washer and a nut, and something on the PF must hide it.[quoted image]

    The right bracket is mounted to the stud on the end of the idol ramp.

    The left bracket is mounted on the middle stud of the steel ball guide on the left.

    #51 3 years ago

    To followup on @filthyrich's advice...

    All of your lamp sockets should use the following screws:
    https://www.pinballlife.com/6-x-38-unslotted-hex-head-screw.html

    All of your mechanical assemblies should use the following screws:
    https://www.pinballlife.com/6-x-12-unslotted-hex-head-screw.html

    Always check the clearance of the screw you are using to make sure it won't breach the surface of the playfield... when in doubt... use the shorter screw For example I noticed that my newer 1/2" screws were a tad longer than the originals AND since I had sanded the back of my playfield... I was concerned that I was on the edge of maybe poking through... so I used the small screws for the switch brackets and cable L brackets. To your point about the L brackets only using one screw... In some cases I added a second screw to sturdy it up.

    #54 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    ricochet is this the proper location for this light? It’s got brown wire, white/brown wire and one yellow wire. The yellow wire - I’m not sure where it goes? Was detached when I bought it. Thanks!!
    [quoted image]

    That is the correct placement. That yellow pigtail is the return for the GI of your pop bumpers.

    B9EDD7F8-B028-437B-8633-ADD970200B5D (resized).jpegB9EDD7F8-B028-437B-8633-ADD970200B5D (resized).jpeg
    #56 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    ricochet you rock, thanks. I have 2 of the 3 wiring harnesses mostly installed. A few things to finish up for sure.

    You’re welcome. You’ll find it will pick up steam pretty quickly. I had a few hiccups along the way (mainly waiting for replacement parts and my decision to make an acrylic backboard) that slowed me down. This process really shows you the magnitude of manual labor that was involved in making these machines. If modern pinball companies had to build them like this we would be paying many thousands more for them. I can’t wait to do my next one... just need to take a break and rejuvenate

    #58 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I edited my last post before I refreshed my browser. Did you put any mylar on your PF? I'm going to install the pop bumpers tonight, I thought I better wait and see if any mylar is going in that area.

    I’m not sure if the repro playfield has the mylar dotted line indicator or not? That helps with guidance. I put mylar around the pop bumpers and where the ball drops from the POA playfield.. and where the ball drops out of the wire ramps.

    I got my Mylar from eBay:
    https://ebay.us/X3iMED

    You’ll find that listing shows the placement of the major pieces.

    #60 3 years ago

    Oh man... I had a ton of micro-f'ups along the way. They all feel like some sort of major setback ... but end up being small potatoes. When I installed the mylar, I taped it down into position along the halfway mark then cut back the backing off. I applied the first half then removed the tape and the other half of the backing and applied the second... working it slowly. There were a few bubbles I carefully popped with the x-acto knife. After I got it all down I used a hair drier to soften it to get a good adhesion (I read that somewhere here). A coat of wax or two can help keep that adhesive from clinging to the playfield.

    This will be but a blink of an eye in terms of your entire project.

    #62 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    ricochet has me hand sanding my ramps. Nobody locally has those flap wheels. Still have 2 places to check, Farm and Fleet and Fleet Farm. I hand sanded this then used my buffer wheel.
    [quoted image]

    That looks very good. If I had to pick one thing about the entire project to dislike... its refinishing the steel, especially the odd shaped pieces.

    #64 3 years ago

    Everything on a WPC machine is discrete. You've got a matrix of switch and lamp wires going from each switch/led and a daisy chained common connected back to the driver board in the head. If you look at a modern Stern machine for example, they use a SPI bus architecture. This allows one pair of wires to service up to 256 io pins (I think that's the SPI limit). So its more of a networked design... you have a bus architecture... more complex (because of the bus abstraction) but a lot less wiring. All of the WPC logic runs on 5V ttl. This provides a very robust design... but ... 5V logic needs more power than today's conventional 3.3V logic (modernization here is actually a good thing... less power... less heat... more capacity). Consequently with WPC you have lots of heavy gauge wire == $$.

    As far as lamps/leds... each led on a modern pin is just on a small PCB... makes it super cheap to manufacture. Those little LED PCBs are pennies in quantities.

    Roll over switches have two screws that hold them onto the playfield and two screws that hold them onto the steel bracket. Nowadays, plastic bracket, spring grip push nuts.

    Look at the woodworking... mitered cuts, cabinet grade plywood. Stern doesn't even use wood on the back box anymore. JJP puts more into their machines... but you're paying for it too.

    Lots of little subtle things like the gauge of the steel in all of the mechanism.

    Tons and tons and tons of fasteners.... this equals labor.

    #66 3 years ago
    Quoted from scootss:

    Thanks so much for the detailed response. I just got my first pin (DE Jurassic Park) so what I have been seeing in this rebuild and others aligns to my perception of what a pinball machine looks like
    I look forward to getting under the hood of a new one as well.

    Take a look at the underbelly of a Chicago Gaming Remake and its original WPC design... you will see how much more it is integrated.

    #68 3 years ago
    Quoted from scootss:

    Just did it. Thanks for the suggestion. Totally different approach, but still lots of coils

    Yeah you can’t really simplify the mechanics all that much

    #72 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I could research this, but don't want to! Too much work to do. How do I get the mylar glue off the PF?

    Never done it... but this method seems safe enough...When you've got it cleaned... put a coat of wax on it, this will prevent the adhesive from sticking too much if you ever need to remove it.

    #73 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I made this little tube. It’s PEX tubing with 2 end caps. Who can guess what I used it for?
    [quoted image]

    Shipping back box metal trim? You sending stuff off for powder-coat or plating?

    #76 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I filled it with Acetone and dropped the metal bar in there for a few days to remove the paint.

    That is a good idea !

    #77 3 years ago
    Quoted from Plungeroo:

    Hi
    I am hoping someone may be able to help me please. I am seeking a left ramp guard for a Williams #IndianaJones, part number 01-11757.
    I've been unable to source one in Australia so may have to resort to having one made locally.
    Just wondering if anyone might have a pattern or could supply the dimensions for me please?
    It seems like a fairly simple manufacture - so I'd ideally like advice on the thickness of the metal and the length, width and curve design along with the dimensions o the tabs that are used for fixing it to the playfield.
    Is the metal stainless steel?
    Many thanks for all your help.
    Regards Jim
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
    [quoted image]

    This is Brushed Stainless Steel (304 series) @ .048 thickness.
    ij-rampshield (resized).jpgij-rampshield (resized).jpg

    ittpa-rampshieldbend.pdfittpa-rampshieldbend.pdf
    #78 3 years ago

    RCSP ... how is the adhesive removal process going?

    #80 3 years ago

    Glad that worked out for you!

    You may be able to get that paint out with a wire brush. Keeping it as original as possible is always a good thing. Most aftermarket stuff is usually pretty good but it always seems to be slightly off from OEM in my opinion. However if you want to get a new piece mantis is my go to for that stuff, top notch.

    https://mantispinball.com/product/misc-u-channel/

    #90 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I bought a new toy.
    Can I install the large stainless “U” shaped ball guide? My Mylar hasn’t arrived so that limits installing things on the top of the pf. If I could install a few pieces at least it would feel like something is being accomplished.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Yes that is a fairly benign add.

    I love my Dewalt cordless screwdriver! I used it more for tear down but it is one of my favorite light duty tools.

    #94 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    ricochet I see the new backbox locks I have are shorter than the original. Did you reuse your lock or you have a source for a new lock? I usually use Pinball Life, they are 90 min away, just because ship time is less.

    I purchased my back box lock and and lock plate kit from marcospecialties and there was no issue with fit. Pinballlife clearly has the same stuff... perhaps they sent you the wrong one by accident? I would check with them, its a pretty common part and you should have no problem with fit.

    #96 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I have two of this tumbler https://www.harborfreight.com/5-lb-metal-vibrator-tumbler-67617.html?_br_psugg_q=vibrator
    In one tumbler I have this media https://www.harborfreight.com/25-lb-black-aluminum-oxide-70-grit-abrasive-media-61871.html
    I am using it dry with metal polish. It makes a lot of dust. I let it run a day, turn it off and let it sit several hours so when I open it up a dust cloud won't come out.
    My question is should I add some water to the tumbler?

    I wouldn't add water. I didn't use metal oxide media... I used crushed walnut media. https://www.harborfreight.com/25-lbs-fine-grade-walnut-shell-blast-media-92155.html
    No dust... it absorbs the polish nicely.

    I used the same vibrator tumbler... it died on the last bit of parts I had to polish... good thing it was cheap.

    #99 3 years ago

    Double check your assembly... there are a couple of ways it can go together wrong and kind of still function.

    Also... be sure to de-burr your threaded holes ... that can keep your halves from fitting properly.

    ECF42749-2F03-41D7-AA26-7E59BD561B8D (resized).jpegECF42749-2F03-41D7-AA26-7E59BD561B8D (resized).jpeg
    #102 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I’m not sure how much of this ramp is visible once everything is on the pf. Not sure how much to polish.
    [quoted image]

    That looks fine, very little of that ramp actually is directly visible ... there are a few pics of that in my photo album for reference.

    #104 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Here is the #$%^&*^%$#%^& Mylar sheet I received.
    [quoted image]

    Seriously? WTF is that ??? Clearly the wrong one !!! Bummer dude

    #106 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I messaged the seller the other day and he wanted to see a picture and I just sent him that same pic.

    Wow like you’d try to rip them off for a piece of Mylar.

    #110 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I noticed those were missing, wasn't sure what goes there!

    Bobbin spacers and posts for the plastic... pic below (not mine)

    plastic-standoffs-leftside (resized).jpgplastic-standoffs-leftside (resized).jpg
    #112 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Wow is that a dirty playfield. I’m trying to order Comet LEDs. I bought the LED OCD board so I think I need non-ghosting lights.

    Yeah its someone's restoration pic I scabbed off of here. I had forgotten what went there myself when I was doing it.

    Nope... you don't need non-ghosting lamps with LED OCD. Regular LEDs give you a bit more range of control with LED OCD.

    #114 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Yes you are correct I had it backwards! How do I know how many led’s to buy?
    Thanks

    Ask... and you shall receive!
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vWCDP2mHtD3iR8CfPyN1i4qBFt_whKb21BIooUhlpP4/edit?usp=sharing

    There are tabs at the bottom for each sheet that give you a break down of all that is needed.

    #120 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    So one motor is fine but the transmission has a rough spot when I turn the gears. So I opened the transmission. It popped open awkwardly and all the gears fell out. I need a diagram of how the spaces and gears are placed. I could wing it but probably a bad idea. Or I could take apart the other transmission. I did a search in the forums and didn't find anything.
    I looked at my pictures from when I disassembled and it looks like I am missing a shim #$%^&*(&^%$. It goes on first. If you are looking at the open transmission, and the brass insert is at the top, then the lower 3 gears are one on the left, and two on the right (lined up vertically). I am missing the shim that is slightly larger than the others that goes under the gear on the left.
    Thanks!

    Yes there are small washers that sit between the gears and back housing, and one that goes on the top housing.. and that tiny sleeve bearing that keeps that large gear from popping around ... they are all critical.

    Look through my photos ... you may find what you need.

    #125 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I rebuilt this transmission. I can spin it both directions with just my fingers.
    The motor works when I hook it to a 9v battery when it is not attached to the transmission.
    Once I mount the motor in place and adjust the gear play, I apply the 9v and the motor makes a tiny movement but then it stops and the transmission never moves.
    Not sure what to do, the transmission seems very smooth. All the gears are fine, no missing teeth.
    [quoted image]

    Not that it matters in this case but the gearbox you have attached to the opto assembly is the Path of Adventure gearbox. The idol lock needs the longer shaft (they are the same internals though).

    1. You say you can spin it .. you mean by the shaft right ?

    2. Can you see the gear in the hole where the motor gear goes?

    3. Can you try the other motor on this gear box ?

    #129 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    What color? The Sunlight Frosted is not an option. Thanks!

    Warm white for flashers is what you're after.

    #131 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I'm up to $476 on my Comet order. I don't see the translucent pop bumpers. Might need to skip those. Are the 5 SMD too bright for the start button?

    Oh yes... no need for 5 SMD. 1 or 2 SMD sunlight is fine. It's the flashers that are pricey... and if you are buying for more than one machine.

    If you are just buying for indy ... it should be around 125 bucks (based upon my spreadsheet).

    I was going to go with the translucent bodies... I opted not to. The white body glows nicely as well with those pop bumper LED discs.

    #139 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I got the gear box working. It was binding. I made a 1/64” thick gasket.
    I was going to put the gear box assembly into place, but I don’t know what the 3 recessed holes are for. They have Tee nuts on top of the PF.
    [quoted image]

    Those are the locations for the three 2” screws that hold the translucent idol base to the top of the playfield.

    A63C7DFF-216C-4AEB-A089-E8719D67A524 (resized).jpegA63C7DFF-216C-4AEB-A089-E8719D67A524 (resized).jpeg
    #144 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Comet order is here. And finally the Mylar from Germany ordered about June 1
    [quoted image]

    That’s a lot of LEDs

    #149 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I fugged up the pop bumper mylar again, this time I'm going to live with it. Even if I tried again there's no guarantee I'd do any better of a job.

    You won’t see it... it’s a bit of a letdown once you get it all together and realize how very little of the upper playfield is visible.

    #157 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    When is a good time to actually turn on the power? I'd like to test each bulb before I bury it under the plastics. I could tape up the coil wires which are mostly unconnected.

    You can remove them easily from the bottom side of the playfield. There are no bulbs that are impossible to deal with.

    The problem bulbs are going to be your wedges. BNC sockets (as long as they aren’t corroded) are petty reliable. Those plastic bodied wedge LEDs can make wonky contact with their sockets and often times require some manipulation of their wires.

    #164 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    My original mini playfield is perfect, a 9.9/10. Think I should just go with that rather than swapping everything to the Mirco board?
    The bulbs are REALLY difficult to install into these type of sockets, now I have some repair work to do.
    I broke off a tab. Used 1/4” of a diode to make the repair. Be careful when replacing with LEDs. Very tight.
    [quoted image]
    [quoted image]

    I stuck with my original POA... and there is a good chance your POA is not drilled right. Mirco’s first run were made for the early prototype POA with the steel side rails and not the more common plastic sides.

    With these bulbs...

    Sometimes they go in better one way vs. the other.

    You should be using “flex” bulbs on those A-D-V-E-N-T-U-R-E inserts. Although those frosteds do a good job diffusing and dispersing the light... they are more suited for a vertical mount. The flex bulbs allow you to really place the LED perfectly upward within the inserts where side mounted sockets are used.

    6385A68F-9367-483E-9B64-F2F268F125AC (resized).jpeg6385A68F-9367-483E-9B64-F2F268F125AC (resized).jpeg

    #171 3 years ago

    Here’s the one you need... Williams # 03-7034-9

    1 week later
    #173 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    This goes on the very back of the pf and it’s on the super small coil assembly that pulls open a gate. Is this a 10-194? I found it on Marco but it doesn’t say the length. I need 1.75”
    Thanks
    [quoted image]

    Yup ... there are two gates and those are the only two of that particular spring on the game.

    #175 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I'm not sure what the difference is in the coil stop, and which switch type I need, HELP
    https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html
    Thanks again!

    Flipper coil FL-11629 with Coil Stop A-12390 and a Normally Open switch

    #177 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    My uncle died he was 90. He wasn’t in good health. He had gastrointestinal covid which I’ve never heard of.

    Oh man I'm sorry to hear that.

    1 week later
    #180 3 years ago

    There is actually quite a bit of freedom with the wiring... don’t be afraid to wrangle it where you want... plus it starts to clean itself up when you start getting everything connected.

    I can’t tell you how many factory zip ties I removed and wire that I rejiggered.

    You’re also working on it in the machine so you are fighting gravity throughout the process. Use some ties to hold it in place where you need the extra slack.

    #182 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I decided to clean up my game room. It’s in the lowest level of a Tri-Level so it’s damp and spiders love it. I watch my sister’s dog a lot and the dog pees under the games, usually under T2 I guess she didn’t like the movie.
    Besides the games in the picture, I have JD which needs a shop job, AF which is 99% ready to play, CFTBL my last project that just needs to have the playfield populated after a pf swap, MB which is great except the decals are junk on the cabinet and the back box, and my prized possession a beautiful CV which is so mint that jefflange1967 played one ball and turned it off. I asked why he stopped playing, he said “it’s too nice to play”.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Wow!!! Super nice collection you have there!!!

    #186 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I’d like to attach the mini pf. I’d like to know what this hole is for before I proceed. The hole in the center of the plastic. There is no hole directly below it in the pf.
    [quoted image]

    Nothing... there may have been designs on paper to put a post under there but I’ve never seen any evidence that it’s used for anything.

    #191 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I am missing some metal posts, they have a smaller lower diameter than most of the posts I have seen, and the holes in the PF are smaller. I don't want to drill the PF hole larger if I don't have to since the posts in the link below won't fit into the pre-drilled hole. Do they still sell the smaller posts? The link is to the larger post that will not fit in the holes on my PF.
    https://www.pinballlife.com/2-14-tall-metal-post-with-threaded-base-and-female-threaded-top.html

    All of the standard bumper posts..(9 of them) are 02-4659-1
    There are two of these (I don't recall where) 02-4842
    There are two of these (around captive ball) 02-4843

    #194 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    ricochet
    How do you get the ramps so clean? Even if you hand sand it's impossible to clean around the rivets and the corners. What's the secret?
    https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipParamCAZVfm8HR3_KpETzKG62DWi4gUs4k9WHgSBvClx6EVPyNlpXpvOMn0i-Tqg/photo/AF1QipORSVvdxfRwVP-wo-HP47gaJ7rZ9eZBqdeaxsPV?key=Q0xOYlVkbHFpWmI1LXBINlUzQWEteFZ1MFVsanRn

    I wet sanded with 400 grit then 600...I finished it dry using a maroon scuff pad from pep boys. It worked wonders.

    #195 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Is this 3rd hole necessary? I could run a longer screw through and put a nut on the top.
    [quoted image]

    Nope only use the two screws ... this is how it is.

    #197 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Also the color DMD. What else is needed? New ROMs?

    You need latest ROM version L-7

    #199 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I’m getting close to where I can finally plug this beast in! Have some lights, switches and coil wires that I need to figure out. Also a round target - not sure where it goes. Will have to look through ricochet pics. I know a target goes behind the captured ball, but this appears to go in the left rear not the right rear.
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    That round target definitely goes at the end of the captive ball cage. There is quite a bit of slack on that switch so it may be misleading you ... or you may need to re-orient your wiring a tad.

    Flasher with Blk-Yel wire is #20, the Jackpot flasher that goes under the left side of the right ramp.
    Flasher with Blu-Grn wire is #21, the Path of Adventure flasher that goes under right side of the right ramp.
    Three pin 0.062 molex plug connects to the ruins flasher

    #203 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I’ll take a look on my PC I can’t see it very well on my phone.
    What goes in this hole? A flasher maybe?
    [quoted image]

    That hole is for the wires for the opto pair at the entrance of the idol and the flasher that is on top of the ruins.

    #206 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Does the POA ramp have 3 bulbs under it? If so does it matter which bulb goes where? Thanks!

    It actually has 4 ... One is Jackpot and the other is Path of Adventure which are unique.

    The other two that are in-line with the ramp are tied together and connected to the right ramp cap flasher. Placement of
    those two are not critical however the one closest to the back usually is the one with the yellow wires and terminates the chain.

    #214 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I wanted to make sure the flashers under the POA ramp were working before attaching the ramp. So I decided to plug in the machine and see what happens. It's pretty good so far, some flashers not working, that is Monday nights job.
    I looked in the manual, but still not sure where these flashers are: Plane Super Ball, Totem Multiball.
    Again, thanks for the help, it's a huge help.

    Nice to see it powered up! Good job! That was one of the most nerve wracking and most exciting parts of the entire project for me.

    Go back to this document... look at the flashers tab... there are notes as to where they are located:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vWCDP2mHtD3iR8CfPyN1i4qBFt_whKb21BIooUhlpP4/edit?usp=sharing

    #216 3 years ago

    A few things I've noticed on your picture... (you may already know this):

    1. The bobbin spacer towards the front on the left side doesn't belong there. That is where the #6 screw for the metal ball guide goes. The bobbin goes to the left of that, in between the rail and the artwork on the playfield. There are two of them that will hold the plastic and are used to mount the shield that goes around the bend of the ramp. I'm not sure that the Mirco playfield has holes drilled for them.

    2. The star post closest to the front right of the picture is incorrect. That is where your ball guide on the apron will mount.

    3. The adjustable star post that is above it in the picture doesn't have the correct mounting post. It should just be a machine screw.
    IJ-left-outlane (resized).jpgIJ-left-outlane (resized).jpgIJ-right-outlane (resized).jpgIJ-right-outlane (resized).jpg

    #224 3 years ago

    Following up on this post...

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/indiana-jones-playfield-swap-and-restoration-covid-inspired/page/4#post-5805778

    I was going back through your thread and looking at all the progress you’ve made and I noticed an error in my direction to you. That 2 pin molex plug goes to the ruins flasher... not the fighter plane as I had originally stated. I’ve corrected it.

    Sorry about that!

    #231 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I've got weird issues (this is where jefflange1967 says "definitely" ). In the Ordered lamp menu, some lights illuminate more than one bulb. The bulbs are not as bright as if just one bulb were lit.
    Some examples: Mode Start is selected, Mode Start is quite bright, also illuminated is the little yellow spot on the mini playfield, the 3rd light from the top on the left, just below the Pit hole on the left. This light is flashing quickly, and it not very bright.
    Hand of Fate - this is the light directly under the "Mode Start" light. It is flashing and very bright, also the 3rd light from the top on the RIGHT of the mini playfield is flashing and not very bright.
    Extra Ball very bright, 4th light from the top on the left of the MP is flashing and not very bright.
    A(D)VENTURE is flashing and bright, Extra ball on the MP is flashing and not very bright.
    So do I have the MP plugged in incorrectly? All the lights on the MP work in the test, they are bright and no other light is illuminated.
    It's 1:25am, so that's it for tonight. Thanks for the help.
    It's a little crazy around here, there are protests for a police shooting in Wauwatosa (about 4 miles from me). The cop shot and killed a kid that shot at him first. Protesters actually went to where the cop lives and fired a shot gun at him. They missed, I think 3 are in custody including the get away driver.
    And then Kenosha is about a 40 minute drive. Yikes it's crazy out there. I think I'll stick to pinball for a while.

    Do yourself a favor before you spend ton of time tracing stuff...

    Check every single diode in your lamp matrix. They are soldered right in-line with the lamp socket. Shorted diodes can cause all kinds of funky “almost on” or “not quite off” lamp behavior.

    What’s the MP?

    #238 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    How do I test these lights in the test mode? I tried all lights mode. Maybe they don’t work!
    [quoted image]

    Solenoid/Flasher tests

    Those are connected to the "Left Side Flasher" #31

    #246 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    The switch for the single drop target - does it stay compressed (pushed in, enabled) when the target is down?
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Yup

    Quoted from RCSP:

    I have 2 roll over switches where the switch seems bad. If I remove the wire that goes on the middle tab, then when I replace the wire the switch triggers in the switch edge test. I can just repeatedly touch the wire and it beeps each time. Does this mean the switch is bad?

    Roll-overs are normally open... so that doesn't sound proper... test it removed from the playfield (if you've not already done that)... just to be sure its not a mounting goof... or a wiring problem.

    E1B8E7E5-394D-4F7D-8F0E-19279A6F729F (resized).jpegE1B8E7E5-394D-4F7D-8F0E-19279A6F729F (resized).jpeg
    #250 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Are there wires used? The red/black go to the coin door but I have a new coin door and it doesn’t have this connector.
    2nd pic my remote buttons, one of the best tools I ever bought.
    Tonight I’m trying to fix the left flipper button. The right flipper works. Left flipper nothing, in switch test nothing happens. I swapped the right buttons circuit board and that had no effect. So problem isn’t the switch itself.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    They are for a bill acceptor. The 9 pin one (its 110VAC by the way) usually just sits by the hinge of the coin door...unused. Since you don’t have the other molex that will be unused as well.

    1 week later
    #279 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I rebuilt the J121 connector with molex, and put a new black connector on the power board.
    Fired it up.......still no pop bumper lights. Crap!

    If the other lamps in the upper playfield GI are still working ... you either have a broken wire or they are actually blown out... which would be weird. I’d bet the entire upper playfield GI is out.

    Did you check the fuse (F110)?

    #282 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    ricochet where does the yellow wire that attaches to the pop bumper ribbon wire come from? As far as I can tell it comes from a bayonet bulb that is directly behind the 3 drop targets, it would illuminate "Raise Jackpot while Flashing". That phrase is used twice, this is above the single target.
    The bulb in question has White/Brown on one lug, and solid brown and solid yellow on the other lug.
    Thanks!

    Yes it connects to the brown wire of that bulb.
    5D21775D-13F7-494E-899A-0AF8FDDF909A (resized).jpeg5D21775D-13F7-494E-899A-0AF8FDDF909A (resized).jpeg

    CF4C4E44-09AA-4B1E-A704-AB323380EB97 (resized).jpegCF4C4E44-09AA-4B1E-A704-AB323380EB97 (resized).jpeg
    #286 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Was this a wood screw base, or did you drill all the way through? ricochet

    Are you talking about this post ... to the left of the wireform in the pic below? My playfied is factory. The hole is not all the way through.
    052E55C6-6E96-4BDC-A848-E3BB3D073B7D (resized).jpeg052E55C6-6E96-4BDC-A848-E3BB3D073B7D (resized).jpeg

    #291 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Thanks pinballinreno.
    Today flip machine on, none of the coils work. It's always something.

    Lockout switch or connections to it?

    #296 3 years ago

    The trace is on the top side... you can jumper it on the bottom though. You will need to look at the schematic... or find something here on pinside. I'm not recalling where that goes of the top of my head.

    #298 3 years ago

    Yup that’s connection.

    18AWG is fine ... you can solder to pin 7 or put the wire between 6 and 7 and bridge them, either way is fine. Out of caution, I wouldn't solder to pin 6 because its adjacent to the other circuit connection of that bridge.

    #301 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Does that air ball plastic fix a problem?
    I have the jumper attached.
    [quoted image]

    Yes the plastic squelches the airballs that often occur when hitting the center targets.

    Is that 18AWG wire? Looks smaller to me. If it is... I would go up a gauge (even though I said 18 was fine).

    #304 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    OMG the Idol motor works in the IDOL test now. Motor isn't installed, that's next.
    Edit - Idol passes test! I ordered a new motor/gearbox ($99) good to have a spare.
    Hmmm, this thing might be ready to play tonight, just attach one ramp. Oh crap I need a slingshot mount, I'll steal it from another machine.

    This is great! I've been enjoying your progress.

    #309 3 years ago
    Quoted from AaronZOOM:

    The top switch of the two is the high voltage safety switch. Machines usually have an operator's clip that can be placed over it so you can test with the coin door open. I don't have one of these clips, just a big ol' rubber band that I use.
    Now that you mention it...I don't know what that 2nd switch does either.

    Bottom switch is a logical signal. Used to indicate the door is open and the system is being administered. If you power the game with the door open ... you’ll get all kinds of weird failures. On future versions of WPC... when you open the coin door you get that alert chime and it tells you that the high voltage disabled.... this is signaled by that switch. Indy doesn’t have that feature.

    #312 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    Does the mech look like the one in the manual?
    Any differences?

    This ^^^^

    Also you can check the mechanics of it without applying power to the system.

    You should be able to manually reset the targets by pushing up on the plunger/plate and you should be able to drop each target manually with your finger.

    #321 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I noticed a stray yellow wire. It's attached to this same light socket. On one lug it's got a white/brown, the other lug brown and two yellow wires. One yellow goes to the pop bumper ribbon. Where does the other yellow go? I tried zooming your pic, looks like you have just one yellow wire. I soldered the wire where I thought it went but when I went into test mode the machine went CRAZY. It was as if I was pressing the NEXT button as fast as I could.
    Tonight I found a few posts that needed nuts, so I put on the nuts and tightened. Also drilled the hole for a post near the left side drain. Fixed the ADVENTURE targets, none of the 6 round targets work (2 loose wires). Took off the blue painters tape off the wiring.

    There should be only one yellow wire that connects the brown wire of the lamp under the center plastic to the center pop lamp lead. Not sure why you have an extra one... probably something someone did at to it some point in its life maybe a GI mod or something

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/indiana-jones-playfield-swap-and-restoration-covid-inspired/page/6#post-5848058

    #322 3 years ago
    Quoted from Phoerber:

    rcsp and ricochet - Guys I just want to say your collaboration is why I love this hobby. You both personify all that's good about pinball, props to you both. I am now inspired to tackle my IJ restore as a result of this thread.

    Thank you for the complements.

    If you look at a restoration for what it is ( a million little steps ), its like ... NOPE too much work!. However if you just tackle one thing at a time... and don't skip steps... have loose timelines... and it will be very fun and rewarding. I'm really glad to see all these Indy's get refreshed. When you get started... if you have any questions feel free to hit me up.

    #324 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Blew fuse F115, and it's a weird fuse. I have 10 boxes of fuses and none are a match. 8A 32v 311. I replaced with the fuse from Judge Dredd. I researched and I see an 8a 250v will work, the 32v fuses are hard to find.
    I adjusted the pop bumper switches, all 3 pop bumpers now work.
    The @#$%^&* upper playfield GI is out again. It looks like ALL GI is out except the backbox. I checked fuses F106 - F110 all are ok. I removed the fuses to test them.
    I had the 2 targets backwards, the ADVENTURE targets "R" and "E". One is white/orange the other is white/red. Easy to switch by looking at low res enlarged pics. For Judge Dredd I changed the camera quality to HIGH from basic.
    Any ideas on the GI? It's late I'll check in Friday evening. Thank you all!
    P.S. I played a game and got a 6 ball multiball - it was crazy.

    FYI ... That fuse is for your regulated 12VDC power supply. Keep an eye on it... it could just have been weakened from poking around and messing with stuff over time.

    The GI thing... if you don't have any loose connections... you may be having issue with the triac on the power driver board. It is possible to do an experiment to see if the problem is the board vs. the wiring. It involves swapping some pin connections on the J121 plug. Swap pins 1(brown) and 2(orange) as well as swap pins 7(white-brown) and 8(white-orange)... this will swap the upper GI power lines to the lower GI and vice versa. If the problem follows (meaning you loose the lower GI) then you have an issue with the power driver board. If the problem persists on the upper GI... then its likely wiring.

    #326 3 years ago
    Quoted from wallybgood:

    Hey R
    I believe that the rating of F115 should be 3/4 amp. Do not put an 8 amp fuse there.
    Wally

    I didn't even see that... good catch!!!!

    #329 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I ordered lots of stuff from Pinrestore website. There's a note that says they reimburse for overpaid shipping changes. My shipping charge was $45!!!!!!! They better refund most of that.
    GI still not working, only the 2 lights at the top of the drain lanes that are always on.

    Test those lamps in the GI tests... they are not part of the lamp matrix... they are actually one of the GI strands (purple/purple-white)... and are on most of the time... until you collect Hand of Fate, and when you get it... your coin door lamps will go out too (they are also connected to the same GI strand).

    #332 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    What do I use in test mode to test the pop bumper lights? The GI test does not light them. It's not in the individual light test either. I saw one was not working earlier, I would like to check the voltage.
    Now the upper GI is out again. It's possessed.

    Pop bumpers are part of the upper GI lamp strand. If they are going out and the rest of the upper GI is still on... something is wrong with either the connection to them or they are not fitted in their sockets right (odd that it would be all three though). After I played mine for a bit I had one that went out ... it needed to be re-fitted in the socket.

    #336 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    No clue what I am doing, but I watched MacGyver Saturday so I can wing it.
    I got my lamp matrix working, and it acted strangely just like the lamp test. I see on the lamp matrix in the IJ manual, that the transistors in the lower right corner of the board are used for the lighting. I tested all of these transistors, and the Q98 was shorted (bad). Lucky it is the easiest to get at, the lower right corner, nothing below it or to the right of it. Just replaced it. Didn't fix my upper GI lights, they are still dead. So still looking for an issue!
    Maybe I should pop in the TOM board and see what happens, this is a quick way to determine if it is a board problem or a wiring problem. EDIT: GI lights work with TOM main board installed. I tested all the transistors, what would I test next?
    Thanks!

    Did you try my pin swapping experiment? This will isolate the board vs. wiring problem.

    Cold solder joints, cracked traces and bad connections aside, the upper GI is controlled by a transistor (Q17:2N5401) and a triac (Q18:SC141). There isn't much to the GI circuit.

    #344 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    In the single lamp test, column 1 is ok. Column 2 has issues.
    Tank Chase also lights Mode Start
    Adven(t)ure light also lights Hand of Fate
    This happens the entire column except Stones Jackpot works properly.
    So each light in column 2 also lights the light next to it in column 1.
    I tested all the transistors from Q83 to Q98 all are ok.
    There are other columns with issues but I’ll focus on this first.
    [quoted image]

    Have you checked all the diodes on your lamp sockets? Shorted diodes cause all kinds of lamp matrix weirdness.

    #346 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    I’ll do that today. Do I need to unsolder one end? I assume I should start with the first bad light in the column???

    Nope just test across the diode. Just test them all ... there aren’t that many. Don't forget the diodes on the lamp PCBs. There are also some on the POA... but if you don't see interference there then you may not need to go that far.

    #348 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    Since the lights work with the TOM board doesn't that indicate my problem is on the board?

    I didn't catch that. Yes

    1 week later
    #359 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    This is the post behind the drop targets. It’s brand new. Doesn’t work in the switch test. Is the wiring ok?
    [quoted image]

    Yup that looks correct.

    #362 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    @#$%^&*(*&^%$%^&*(
    Thanks, I'll dig further into the wiring.
    ricochet where did you put mylar on the pf? Do you have a lot of ball dents already?

    I’ve no dents. I put mylar pads where the ball drops out of the wireforms and where the ball lands at launch.

    My playfield is original, clear coated... so it was good and pre-worn prior to restoration.

    1 week later
    #370 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCSP:

    So I have no continuity from J120-1 to the tab of transistor 18. I forgot the letter number. I think I need to scratch off the trace a little and solder or run a wire. Thoughts?

    You should always run a jumper wire to be certain you have a good solid connection. Often times when you scrape away the solder mask and add heat to these boards you weaken the copper trace and it will slightly delaminate.

    1 week later
    #378 3 years ago

    This was a fun restoration you did great!

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