(Topic ID: 186558)

Indiana Jones - Gun Doesn't Shoot

By delt31

7 years ago


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  • 40 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Trogdor
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#1 7 years ago

So I'm making a lot of LED updates to my machine and it now looks amazing. Go to play a game and the gun is not shooting! Never happened before - def caused it by doing the LEDs. I checked the simple things like if the gun was still wired or not and it was - clipped in from the two wires that come from the gun.

Any suggestions on the big ticket items? Could I have overloaded with the alligator clips? One is going to the sling lights while the other is on the bottom from one of the GIs. They are lighting two LED strips.

#2 7 years ago

Try shorting the pins on the cpu for the gun switch to ground. If it doesn't fire, you somehow hurt your CPU.

LTG : )

#3 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Try shorting the pins on the cpu for the gun switch to ground. If it doesn't fire, you somehow hurt your CPU.
LTG : )

Thanks but not sure what you mean by this....

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Thanks but not sure what you mean by this....

Then be sure you do before trying it.

On the cpu are connectors for the switches. Each connector plugs onto pins. Each pin is for one switch. Find the one for the trigger switch, use a jumper wire to ground that one and in Tests - Switch Edge - see if the trigger registers. If not, you shorted the cpu when you were putting in the LEDs.

LTG : )

#5 7 years ago

Literally everything works but the trigger....

One other question - "use a jumper wire to ground that one".....not following that. Is a jumper wire common as I'm not sure i hae one and how would I "ground" it? Is that the green wire that you screw to the bottom behind the speakers?

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Is a jumper wire

A piece of wire. Put one end on the pin on the cpu connector for that switch, put the other end on the metal plate all the boards in the head are fastened to. Go into Tests - Switch edge, hold the wire to ground and briefly touch the pin on the connector and see if it registered on the DMD.

Have you used a meter to see if the switch works, you have continuity of each wire from the switch to the cpu ? You could have a break somewhere or a bad switch.

LTG : )

#7 7 years ago

Did you have the game on when you were installing the leds?

IJ does some weird stuff if you turn the game on with the coin door open. Did you try rebooting?

#8 7 years ago

I did have the game on when installing the LEDs. This way I can see if they were working - done this with all my games. Rebooted and no luck.

So I checked it out and my left sling isn't working either. Manual says Gun and left sling are J209 and J207.

LTG - not sure what you're describing. put a piece of wire on the end of that white pin that connects to J209 and put the other end of the wire to the metal plate?

So weird b/c the game wants to be played but I can't use the gun! I guess add left sling into that as well.

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

LTG - not sure what you're describing. put a piece of wire on the end of that white pin that connects to J209 and put the other end of the wire to the metal plate?

Don't do it then. Get help.

LTG : )

#10 7 years ago

Damn just noticed that the bottom part of the game (GI, slings lights) are not on anymore. It's def not a gun thing. Seems like I caused a short. In the situation when you cause a short (that's not just one item but multiple) how do you essentially reset the lights so they turn back on?

#11 7 years ago

If you're lucky you only blew a fuse(es). Check them with a meter (removed from the game) and replace the blown ones.

Marc

#12 7 years ago

yeah I was just going to say this could be a fuse thing. Will check it out. thanks

Need to get meter now...

#13 7 years ago

"Guns handles don't kill pinball machines, alligator clips do."
- TBK

Please, check your "mods" for said clips touching contacts (such as GI wires, leads, and microswitches), before you start replacing fuses.
This is done with the game OFF.
"Just a fuse" is a lucky break.
Replacing fuses without previous mentioned checks, results in more blown fuses, and does not fix anything.
Jumping to into electronics before validating your previous work, always results in problems.
You may need to backtrack and remove mods, as I have no idea what exacting was changed.

When GI and and switch matrix issues arise, my senses tell me shorts are resulting from the addons in this case.
Rarely, only one switch is effected from a short.
Hopefully, improper voltages were not sent back to the MPU via the switch matrix or crossing from the GI, or other connections.
You may have a turned the game into an expensive Christmas tree ornament until the problem is identified.

But, all problems can be fixed and everyone makes mistakes.

#14 7 years ago

well fuse was blown and now the lights are all working. My gun and left sling still don't but I believe that could be another fuse. Just don't have an extra right now (takes 3/4A?) - I have 4A!!!

If anyone knows for sure which fuse controls that gun and left sling, lmk but I think it's F115.

Manual - page 1-45

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1267/Williams_1993_Indiana_Jones_The_Pinball_Adventure_English_Manual.pdf

#15 7 years ago

Don't install leds with the game on. You're lucky it was just a fuse so far.

#16 7 years ago

Yes lesson learned.

Is 3/4A the same as 3/4AMP? Also what's the quickest way to get these? Seems like Amazon isn't prime. Thinking radio shack but I think they're out of business....

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

My gun and left sling still don't but I believe that could be another fuse.

If you mean the switches, it won't be a fuse. Then your CPU took a hit.

LTG : )

#18 7 years ago

The left sling and gun need power for them to operate. I was thinking maybe the fuse that provides them power might have blown as I believe f115 provides 12v.

Switch 34 is the reported problem which is the gun. The sling is 33 yet the game hasn't reported an issue with that, I know it doesn't work right now by pressing on it. I have not tried to tweak it yet. I don't exactly know where switch 34 is by the gun.

In the worst case and out ends up being CPU, do I have to just but a new board and replug in everything?

#19 7 years ago

The sling is a coil, activated by two leaf switches. If you close the coin door, start a game and push on the rubber, does the sling coil fire? If you go into switch test mode with coin door open, does either sling leaf switch activate when you push on the rubber or manually close the leaf switch with your finger? If you go into coil test, with coin door closed, does the sling coil fire?

Have you checked the connections on the switch? I don't have a manual in front of me, but does the gun switch have a diode on it? Is it connected.

If you have a meter, you can check to see if there is power getting to the switch. One probe on one wire, one probe to the ground braid.

#21 7 years ago

So I'm not home but the only thing I've done is put the game in test mode then switch test with the coin door open and when I push on the rubber sling, it doesn't fire yet the other does. I haven't been able to find the gun switch but will look into it further. Any tips as it relates to the gun would be helpful. I know that it's connected.

I will say that the switch that is not working is the left sling. I also attached clips to the left slings lights if that helps Lights still work and so does led strip that clips are attached too. In the event somehow the clips caused the left switch to short, how can I tell and what can I do to resolve? Nothing was updated by the gun so that is a weird one however maybe bc the gun is switch 34 and the sling is switch 33 both were impacted?

Also - am I wasting my time trying to replace one of the 5v or 12v fuses if this is switch related? I believe the gun is switch related since the error upon bootup says error check switch 34 which is the gun so I think it's switch related for the gun. I haven't found the switch for the gun yet so can't confirm yet and I'm away.

Game looks so good right now too! Everything works but this.....

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

I was thinking maybe the fuse that provides them power might have blown as I believe f115 provides 12v.

None of your switches would be working if you lost 12 volts.

Quoted from delt31:

do I have to just but a new board and replug in everything?

Get your CPU fixed, people that post here like Borygard, Chrishibler, can help you.

LTG : )

#23 7 years ago

You say the switch isn't working on the sling, but there are two switches. Are both not working in test mode. You need to close the coindoor or pull the interlock switch to test a coil, assuming this game has a cutoff.

Clips would just cause the fuse to blow, not take out a switch, unless you shorted the clips to the switch. Lights and switches are independent.

You need to test if 12v is getting to gun switch. Look at the switch matrix, what else is on the row? Are those working? If so, you have a broken wire going to the gun switch. You can also test continuity from the connector on the board to the switch.

That's where I'd start.

#24 7 years ago

Thanks for the info. I just feel like this is not a CPU thing (at least not yet!)

I'm not with the table again until Monday but want to potentially order things I need to double check. What do you recommend for the 12v? Link on amazon prime would be best and I will order tonight so it's ready for me on Mon.

As I mentioned earlier, I looked at the fuse for the 12v and it looked weak. Worth replacing?

Coin door was open when testing the switches (by pressing against the sling rubber and forcing the switch to close so the coil would move) and it didn't. I don't remember the coil not working when I did the solonoid test but would need to double check. In the event the switch doesn't work but the coil does, what do you suggest?

As for the switch matrix - here it is:

http://www.pinitech.com/switch_database.php?name=Williams_Indiana_Jones

33 and 34 appear to be out. Does 31-34 consist of the "row" or is the row 31-38? I know for sure 35-38 works. Not sure about 31 and 32. If the row consists of 31-34 and they're all out - then what?

Thanks again for the help!

#25 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

I just feel like this is not a CPU thing

Have you checked the switch with a meter ? Have you checked continuity of each wire from the switch to the CPU ?

Quoted from delt31:

I just feel like this is not a CPU thing

You were doing stuff with the power on, easy to damage the LM339's or U20 on the CPU. ( I feel it is, sorry )

Quoted from delt31:

I looked at the fuse for the 12v and it looked weak. Worth replacing?

No. You wouldn't have any switches working if 12 volts was gone. And pull and check fuses with a meter, what it looks like could be deceiving.

Quoted from delt31:

In the event the switch doesn't work but the coil does, what do you suggest?

Fixing why the switch doesn't work.

Quoted from delt31:

Does 31-34 consist of the "row

Rows go across, columns go up and down. #33 and #34 don't work. Does #32 and #35 work ? If so, then you have a broken wire between #32 and #33 or between #34 and #35. This will be a green wire with an orange stripe.

LTG : )

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

In the worst case and out ends up being CPU, do I have to just but a new board and replug in everything?

Oh my, "The Attack of Swapatronics".

This situation based on reading base assessments does make me suspect MPU IC damage.

Please seek assistance for validation of testing of components, switch matrix, and coils before powering up a new MPU on a potentially remaining shorted game. This will also require EPROM and IC extraction (if repairs are required) which you may not have the proper tools.

Pinball machines are not simple "plug and play" electronics.

#27 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Have you checked the switch with a meter ? Have you checked continuity of each wire from the switch to the CPU ?

Rows go across, columns go up and down. #33 and #34 don't work. Does #32 and #35 work ? If so, then you have a broken wire between #32 and #33 or between #34 and #35. This will be a green wire with an orange stripe.
LTG : )

OK - I'll be back with the table on Monday but *I believe* the pops weren't working during play when I last tried (however the coils did in test mode) so maybe the switches associated with them aren't working. They would be 35, 36, 37 which is in the same column (read up to down).

If this column of switches isn't working, is that def the CPU then and if so, what needs to be done to fix this? btw this is column 3 Green/Orange all down the line.

#28 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

is that def the CPU then

If you don't have a broken green wire with orange stripe from the first switch to the CPU, yes the switch matrix part of the CPU took a hit.

What ever shorted to that line, be sure you fixed that. No sense putting a repaired board in and blowing it again.

Quoted from delt31:

what needs to be done to fix this?

Unless you are very skilled at board repair, get help. My 22nd post has who to contact.

LTG : )

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

If you don't have a broken green wire with orange stripe from the first switch to the CPU, yes the switch matrix part of the CPU took a hit.
What ever shorted to that line, be sure you fixed that. No sense putting a repaired board in and blowing it again.

Unless you are very skilled at board repair, get help. My 22nd post has who to contact.
LTG : )

Ok very helpful thanks. Besides eye balling for the wire break what device will I need to detect if there is a break in the wire? I did move the table up and down so maybe the wire got cut.

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

what device will I need to detect if there is a break

A meter. Cheap one will do. Check from any switch green wire with orange stripe, to the same color wire going into the connector on the bottom of the CPU.

Youtube is littered with how to videos. Use a meter, check continuity, etc.

LTG : )

#31 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

A meter. Cheap one will do. Check from any switch green wire with orange stripe, to the same color wire going into the connector on the bottom of the CPU.
Youtube is littered with how to videos. Use a meter, check continuity, etc.
LTG : )

Ok if you have a cheap one you recommend from Amazon link it here.

Is the concept to use the meter to determine if 12v is getting to each of the switch in the column and if it's not it's CPU? Or if it is and still not working then what? Finally if it's not getting power via the meter it's not fuse related bc the other switches outside that column are working?

#32 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Ok if you have a cheap one you recommend from Amazon link it here.

Hardware store or Home Depot near you. Pick any one you like, like these :

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Manual-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-MM300/206517192

https://www.amazon.com/Tacklife-Multimeter-Resistance-Connectivity-Measurement/dp/B01N68Y73M/ref=sr_1_1

Quoted from delt31:

Is the concept to use the meter to determine if 12v is getting to each of the switch

NO. With the game turned off, see if the green wire orange stripe from any switch has CONTINUITY to the CPU connector J207 pin 3

LTG : )

#33 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Hardware store or Home Depot near you. Pick any one you like, like these :
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Manual-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-MM300/206517192
amazon.com link »

NO. With the game turned off, see if the green wire orange stripe from any switch has CONTINUITY to the CPU connector J207 pin 3
LTG : )

Ok will do. Are you expecting there won't be continuity found? Just curious what next steps are over I do the readings (continuity found vs no continuity).

#34 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Just curious what next steps are over I do the readings (continuity found vs no continuity).

Continuity - yes - CPU damage.

Continuity - No - Then follow the wire along from the CPU, using your eyes and meter, and find the break and fix it.

LTG : )

#35 7 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Continuity - yes - CPU damage.
Continuity - No - Then follow the wire along from the CPU, using your eyes and meter, and find the break and fix it.
LTG : )

Perfect thanks

Btw another pinside mentioned he did just what I did and ended up being the u20 chip. He replaced and it was fine. Looked online and I think pinball life sells them cheap (not sure it's the same as this guy bougt one for judge dredd replacement) and they seem to replace like a game rom. Might just buy some just incase. Have you heard of the same?

#36 7 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Have you heard of the same?

Check your CPU. If ( and that's a big IF ) U20 on yours is socketed, yes you can remove the old one and plug in a new one. Line up marks the same, not labels. The board is marked and the IC has a mark so you know where pin one is. If your U20 isn't socketed, then you'd have to unsolder it, and solder on a socket, then plug it in, so it's easier next time.

And if you don't have the tools and skills for board work, you'll need someone that does. Easy to do lots of damage to the traces.

LTG : )

#37 7 years ago

Here you can see the notch on the IC and mark on the white line on the circuit board. Also note under the corner of the IC on the board the white circle, that marks pin one. Some IC's will have a circle there rather than the notch.

LTG : )

closeup-ic-polarity (resized).jpgcloseup-ic-polarity (resized).jpg

#38 7 years ago

Nice thanks. It's Indiana Jones will check if it's socket or not.

5 years later
#39 1 year ago

I have the same problem. What ended up being the fix? Thanks

#40 1 year ago
Quoted from Potus:

I have the same problem. What ended up being the fix? Thanks

Yes- interesting thread and then nothing. Hopefully someone puts the solution. I’m guessing his CPU was fried and had to ship to someone to fix.

I had similar problem, fortunately solder had broken away from one of wires to gun.

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