(Topic ID: 171139)

Increasing Prices: Terrible for Pinball

By jar155

7 years ago


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  • 232 posts
  • 100 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by iceman44
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#3 7 years ago

The emotional response is so strong that we need to start an anti-thread. Must be onto something.

#5 7 years ago

Complaining is what people do when they feel powerless to do anything about something they feel passionate about. So the complaining is natural, and ultimately positive. I don't mind if everyone disagrees with me, but I wanted to have a discussion about the market changing. I think we all agree that's happening.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

It's not a complaint, it's a decision. A complaint is "I don't like this because...". What people are doing is deciding to stop buying new pinball machines. You complain about things you still have to do. Nobody has to buy new pinball machines, and they're starting to realize that and they're going to stop.

Right, not buying based on the price increase can be a rational decision. Getting on a public forum and talking about how upsetting it is that you won't buy it anymore, that's complaining. And people do it because they are really passionate about pinball and/or what it does for them.

I'm not criticizing: Everyone is doing it because the market is changing and old assumptions are no longer true. I'm not thrilled about paying more either.

#60 7 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

I like the "dont like it, don't buy it!" crowd.

On the plus side, they seem to agree that all the complaining isn't productive.

#108 7 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

paying $9,000 (or more) to put a game out on location is bonkers unless you're in a really big pinball hotspot. It will take an eternity to pay back, even with full take going to the operator.

It could make sense for the location to do it as a loss leader to bring people in for F&B sales.

#123 7 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

In my arcade downtown, my $5,000 basket ball game makes $450 per week, while my $8,000 pinball machine makes $34 per week.

I visited your downtown location a couple of weeks ago. I'm curious: Do people tend to play the basketball game alone, or in groups of 2 or more?

#125 7 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

How is that relevant. The basketball game makes $450 per week the pinball $34, yet the basketball is cheaper.

I'm genuinely curious. I'm wondering what's different about basketball compared to pinball for his customers.

I imagine pinball players mostly play alone, since the way he has them arranged doesn't allow groups to form around them. It would be interesting to know if the more profitable machines were primarily played in groups.

#128 7 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Are we discussing game placement to account for a minimum of 1223.5% difference? If the wind blows to the left slightly the golfer will miss the green by 1000 yards?

Just to be clear, I'm hoping to learn something interesting from an experienced operator. I'm not trying to win cheap arguments or zing anyone.

#140 7 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

Groups or singles is irrelevant as we get both into the arcade...No deep rule sets, no buttons to press, no thinking to be done.

Thanks for the well thought-out response.

I'm in the process of building a restaurant with bowling and a game room. The consultant I hired to help me has a lot of data that game rooms can't succeed if they don't provide a social experience. So I'm wondering if at least part of the problem is the way pinball tends to require playing alone.

Your other comment touches on my other theory: Pinball is more cerebral (or seems that way) and may not target the same market that the other games do.

What do you think would happen if you took out half your pins so people could stand between them and watch while others played?

#151 7 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Typically when businesses celebrate they give back. They don't try to ram crap down the throats of an industry or customer base.
You know, to hear that Stern gave crap to Nate at Coast 2 Coast for saying what we are all thinking (in a rather tame way, IMO)... is completely lame.

Good point. When an organization takes to bullying outsiders for disagreements it usually means they're afraid of something.

#156 7 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

The bottom line is that higher prices are terrible for pinball. They've priced operators out of the market, and they're just pissing off collectors. I speak from the position of both.

Honestly I think location gaming as we know it is pretty much doomed in the long run. All the data shows people in local markets are not leaving home for entertainment anymore. That's why locations have to do more than one thing to survive, usually including F&B which people still leave home for. D&B is still doing pretty well, for example.

Your locations are the exception since you're in a tourist market and you probably can make it work with the surrounding attractions as anchors to bring in traffic.

I agree pinball doesn't make sense for you. The thing is, the manufacturers know this too. Is it possible the higher prices reflect this?

#159 7 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

What pinball manufacturers should be doing is looking to (1) reduce design and manufacturing cost and (2) creatively look to make pinball relevant for wide spread location use. Build for the Ops and sell to consumers on the side. Let the market thrive and exist without attempting to manhandle it...If they can't make it relevant to the masses, this whole thing is going to collapse. Step one is making it affordable to operate. Step two is making sustainably attractive to Joe Public. They way things are going at the moment, manufacturers are signaling that they don't have a good location answer.

Designing for location play would doom them. It's not up to the manufacturers to solve the location play problem. They're selling to their market and prices will settle where the market needs them to--it might be higher than we like.

That said, it really would be nice and forward-thinking if they spun off an R&D division that specifically partnered with entrepreneurs to identify viable business models for their products.

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