(Topic ID: 171139)

Increasing Prices: Terrible for Pinball


By jar155

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by iceman44
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44
#1 3 years ago

I mean, seriously. Do we even have to discuss it?

#2 3 years ago

Oh, I like this thread! The anti thread to that other one.

Yes, what is the benefit to cheaper pinball? More people playing pinball!

What is the benefit to more expensive pinball? People hoarding machines and no new players dropping in a quarter to learn the games because they now cost a couple bucks.

Look at the pinside map of pinsiders. How many cities would a $12k machine be able to put on route? NY, LA, SF and nowhere else.

It doesn't make sense. Older games had a better price point. There are a few more features and a big increase in price. Greedy manufacturers seeing how high they can go.

-11
#3 3 years ago

The emotional response is so strong that we need to start an anti-thread. Must be onto something.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from brundaged:

The emotional response is so strong that we need to start an anti-thread. Must be onto something.

Thank you for coming into this thread to tell us we were on to something. We all knew that increasing prices was bad for pinball!

#5 3 years ago

Complaining is what people do when they feel powerless to do anything about something they feel passionate about. So the complaining is natural, and ultimately positive. I don't mind if everyone disagrees with me, but I wanted to have a discussion about the market changing. I think we all agree that's happening.

#6 3 years ago

It's not a complaint, it's a decision. A complaint is "I don't like this because...". What people are doing is deciding to stop buying new pinball machines. You complain about things you still have to do. Nobody has to buy new pinball machines, and they're starting to realize that and they're going to stop.

#7 3 years ago

Maybe Starkville Mississippi? With these values, look for more location thefts of machines.....

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

It's not a complaint, it's a decision. A complaint is "I don't like this because...". What people are doing is deciding to stop buying new pinball machines. You complain about things you still have to do. Nobody has to buy new pinball machines, and they're starting to realize that and they're going to stop.

Right, not buying based on the price increase can be a rational decision. Getting on a public forum and talking about how upsetting it is that you won't buy it anymore, that's complaining. And people do it because they are really passionate about pinball and/or what it does for them.

I'm not criticizing: Everyone is doing it because the market is changing and old assumptions are no longer true. I'm not thrilled about paying more either.

28
#9 3 years ago

Not only do the higher prices drive us "commoners" out, those prices cause everyone to look for all the used older games, and now THOSE are going up to.

Remember 5 years ago?

JD: $1500 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-judge-dredd-rhode-island-1500

DM: $1500 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-demolition-man-1500-san-jose-ca

JM: $1200 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-johnny-mnemonic-1200-san-jose-ca

XF: $1350 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-x-files

Congo: $1400 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-congo

Shadow: $1850 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/shadow-for-sale

BSD: $1600 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-bram-stokers-dracula

They're drying up, and yes, SOME of them got hot because of Bowen's tutorial videos, I won't deny that. But by far when new games are costing as much as used cars FFS, people that can't afford $9000 for a "cheap version" of a game start digging for good deals. Find me ANY of those games listed above on Pinside in the condition they are in at those prices today.

Won't happen.

I loathe what Stern and JJP are doing. FFS, they are competing with each other to see who can get the biggest cashgrab - NOT who can best help the customer, lower prices, and sell more machines. I can't believe this hobby and what they are doing. This community keeps Stern and JJP's heads above water, and they literally put a wang in our eye and say "thanks now take that and enjoy it".

Truly unreal that more competition brought HIGHER PRICES. Absolutely inexcusable, and now I will be supporting Heighway because at least they're keeping prices in check and when they're done with me I can still sit down without having to awkwardly sway my body weight to one side or the other to keep the soreness down.

Hell with the big two. I hope they burn in the future for what they're doing to the community that has supported them.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Not only do the higher prices drive us "commoners" out, those prices cause everyone to look for all the used older games, and now THOSE are going up to.
Remember 5 years ago?
JD: $1500 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-judge-dredd-rhode-island-1500
DM: $1500 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-demolition-man-1500-san-jose-ca
JM: $1200 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-johnny-mnemonic-1200-san-jose-ca
XF: $1350 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-x-files
Congo: $1400 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-congo
Shadow: $1850 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/shadow-for-sale
BSD: $1600 - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-bram-stokers-dracula
They're drying up, and yes, SOME of them got hot because of Bowen's tutorial videos, I won't deny that. But by far when new games are costing as much as used cars FFS, people that can't afford $9000 for a "cheap version" of a game start digging for good deals. Find me ANY of those games listed above on Pinside in the condition they are in at those prices today.
Won't happen.
I loathe what Stern and JJP are doing. FFS, they are competing with each other to see who can get the biggest cashgrab - NOT who can best help the customer, lower prices, and sell more machines. I can't believe this hobby and what they are doing. This community keeps Stern and JJP's heads above water, and they literally put a wang in our eye and say "thanks now take that and enjoy it".
Truly unreal that more competition brought HIGHER PRICES. Absolutely inexcusable, and now I will be supporting Heighway because at least they're keeping prices in check and when they're done with me I can still sit down without having to awkwardly sway my body weight to one side or the other to keep the soreness down.
Hell with the big two. I hope they burn in the future for what they're doing to the community that has supported them.

Agreed. These are blatant and insulting cash grabs by Stern and JJP. I hope this leads to loads of new Heighway and Spooky customers.

19
#11 3 years ago

Hate to say it, but anyone that was willing to spend $9k+ on a USED game from the nineties in the last five years is largely to blame. What manufacturer in their right mind wouldn't look at that and realize how much money is on the table?

And NPO is right, used is out of hand too. B and C list are too much. You can't get swords of fury for less than 2 grand now. There's a goddamn Baywatch on my local CL for $3500!

I'm moving on to D list an EMs while I still can. Anyone have a Cactus jacks or a Spanish eyes they want to sell?

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

Hate to say it, but anyone that was willing to spend $9k+ on a USED game from the nineties in the last five years is largely to blame. What manufacturer in their right mind wouldn't look at that and realize how much money is on the table?
And NPO is right, used is out of hand too. B and C list are too much. You can't get swords of fury for less than 2 grand now. There's a goddamn Baywatch on my local CL for $3500!
I'm moving on to D list an EMs while I still can. Anyone have a Cactus jacks or a Spanish eyes they want to sell?

There's a Baywatch listed now for 1550 on Long Island. Deals are around. B and C title prices have risen, but you can get a lot of value for around 3k or less. Even a JM in the mid to high 2s has value, a great game. Baywatch is a fantastic games, tons of shots and modes and it's a tough game. It's a better theme than "dialed in." Plenty of other titles out there.

#13 3 years ago

I'm not gonna name names but with prices going through the roof,I hope the people that are showing their virtual machines at expo are licking their chops because sales are gonna start going up. Good substitute for the time being while others are jacking prices.Hundreds of tables available for cheap.
Mike

17
#14 3 years ago

The customers will quickly dry up and these greedy pricks will go out of business, and that's ok with me. I will go back to finding reasonably prices pins in decent condition, fixing them up as best I can, and enjoying them with my friends. The whole reason I got into this hobby to start with.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from msj2222:

The customers will quickly dry up and these greedy pricks will go out of business, and that's ok with me. I will go back to finding reasonably prices pins in decent condition, fixing them up as best I can, and enjoying them with my friends. The whole reason I got into this hobby to start with.

ME TOO!!!!

#16 3 years ago

I live on Long Island and do OK. But 9k for a lesser machine has priced me out of Stern and JJP as well.....I had to sell my Stern SM and a bunch of other arcade items to fund my MMR. That may be my last NIB I will ever own...as my only other one was Transformers LE that I got at the now bargain price of 5400 shipped about 5 years ago.

I've been trading machines to try and self fund at this point.

#17 3 years ago

May be Riot-Pinball should come back and propose WOOLY for $8k.
They could not get 100 orders in 2014 (and the run was cancelled). Now seems like a bargain.

Disclaimer: I own one!

#18 3 years ago

My question is, who the hell is still buying at these prices? Noobs?

#19 3 years ago

I don't understand why they can't offer a reasonably price pin for new people just getting in the hobby. My pin fun is very limited, these high prices are killing my chances to own another pin.
To me it make more sense to offer a new $3,000 to $4,000 pin just to bring customers in. I guess manufacturers are not looking at it this way.
I was hoping prices where coming down just for the sake of operators and personal use. With new prices climbing its just a matter of time before used machines are out of my reach. This will turn away people trying to get in the hobby for the first time.

#20 3 years ago

Tell the rich people to stop preordering le's like they're gold with a bunch of issues out of the box and don't by these new pins at 9k+ and this crap will change.

10
#21 3 years ago

There are plenty of great used pins around. Don't focus just on buying NIB games. There are still deals to be had. If you can't afford it so what, it's not the end of the world. I've pretty much accepted the fact I'm never going to get to have the NIB experience. It's only because I feel like Stern's price is always jogging a little ahead of what I'm comfortable spending on a new machine.

Pile on the risks of unfinished code, shitty playfields, lack of customer support and I'm out. Honestly they keep raising prices and providing worse customer service. They're doing us a favor by raising the price to the point where either we can't afford it or don't think it's worth what they're asking. Just focus on older machines. There are plenty out there that are tons of fun. This definitely isn't the end of the world.

The part I'm scared about is that I've been fortunate that local operators usually have the newer titles available so I usually get to try out the newest stuff for a few bucks. I'm afraid the levels are getting to a point where that will no longer be the case.

#22 3 years ago

I second that fishmanrob. This hobby has always been driven by people with deep pockets . I getting fead up with it to .this will be my last trip to expo I am afraid . I support the small business owners

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

My question is, who the hell is still buying at these prices? Noobs?

Bored baby boomers with more cash than they know what to do with.

There are a lot of them out there.

#24 3 years ago

US$ 20K by Xmas!

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

There's a Baywatch listed now for 1550 on Long Island. Deals are around. B and C title prices have risen, but you can get a lot of value for around 3k or less. Even a JM in the mid to high 2s has value, a great game. Baywatch is a fantastic games, tons of shots and modes and it's a tough game. It's a better theme than "dialed in." Plenty of other titles out there.

Oh the whole reason I'm complaining that the baywatch is so high is because I want one! That game is really fun!

#26 3 years ago

empty-wallet-jpg_192449 (resized).jpg2c9cb67 (resized).jpg

#27 3 years ago

My last 6 pins have been under $5K each

IMVE
SM
TWD pro
Tspp
Met pro
LotR

not saying that's especially cheap but there are a lot of great pins that don't cost $8K+

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

There are plenty of great used pins around. Don't focus just on buying NIB games. There are still deals to be had. If you can't afford it so what, it's not the end of the world. I've pretty much accepted the fact I'm never going to get to have the NIB experience. It's only because I feel like Stern's price is always jogging a little ahead of what I'm comfortable spending on a new machine.
Pile on the risks of unfinished code, shitty playfields, lack of customer support and I'm out. Honestly they keep raising prices and providing worse customer service. They're doing us a favor by raising the price to the point where either we can't afford it or don't think it's worth what they're asking. Just focus on older machines. There are plenty out there that are tons of fun. This definitely isn't the end of the world.
The part I'm scared about is that I've been fortunate that local operators usually have the newer titles available so I usually get to try out the newest stuff for a few bucks. I'm afraid the levels are getting to a point where that will no longer be the case.

Dude, between your concern and mine (used games drying up like crazy + new games not being on location anymore) - that's EXACTLY why myself and many others are concerned. Yes, you are correct, it's not the end of the world, but when both the scenarios I mentioned in ( )'s start happening, that's NOT good for the community.

Want to know something funny? In the 3 barcades/local hardcore arcades I have been to in the Dayton/Cincinnati/Columbus area (Legacy Arcade in Cincy, 16 Bit Bar as well as Super Awesome Arcade in Columbus), guess how many premium/LE games I have seen? ZERO.

Gosh..........wonder why........

Once Stern prices games out of operator's reachers = that's it....and then the focus is nearly solely on the home market, oh and guess what, they're pricing the majority of us "commoners" out, so where does that leave Stern?

Seriously, they need to stop acting like they can't falter or be brought down, because they have a powerful enemy that threatens to do it: themselves.

Quoted from rai:

My last 6 pins have been under $5K each
IMVE
SM
TWD pro
Tspp
Met pro
LotR
not saying that's especially cheap but there are a lot of great pins that don't cost $8K+

Could you please point out one game being revealed at Expo right now that costs under $5000?

That's the focus here. Not only are the new games priced out of most people's comfortable grasp, but their prices are also making all the older ones go up. It's a true 2x edge sword, and it could potentially devastate our hobby.

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

I'm not gonna name names but with prices going through the roof,I hope the people that are showing their virtual machines at expo are licking their chops because sales are gonna start going up. Good substitute for the time being while others are jacking prices.Hundreds of tables available for cheap.
Mike

This may be a good option down the road. With 4K monitors and improving software it could be a compelling argument to be able to play 100+ pinball machines for the price of 1. I have tried it and they aren't that bad. Nothing will beat physical machines, but they are a nice way to enjoy a lot of pins on a single cab/platform. Also, a nice way to enjoy pins that may never own or to enjoy machines you wouldn't want to drop big bucks on.

#30 3 years ago

Considering many of the new games are rushed, unfinished, uninspired and buggy, the price increases are ludicrous. If companies can't keep the cost around 5-6k (and still make money), they are doing something wrong. Last NIB I purchased was KISS Premium and the quality/price were on the edge of unacceptable. At this point, it's hard to imagine buying another NIB...the value just isn't there.

52
#31 3 years ago

I read this in the Pinball News Expo coverage:

"Sadly, despite purchasing a $30 ticket, Pinball News was banned from the party for suggesting the $15,000 Batman 66 Super Limited Edition machine might be a little overpriced."

http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2016/index.html

Shame on Stern for doing this, given the HUGE AMOUNT THAT MARTIN DOES FOR THE HOBBY AND FOR FREE. HE EVEN BOUGHT A TICKET!! Their prices are outrageous and they need to have that point rammed home. I saw a photo of Gary in a Penguin costume, but to me he looked like the Fat Capitalist from Monopoly. Now I wouldn't even have been thinking along those lines if Stern hadn't been price gouging

I see in the background that Kickstarter is being used by Stern as yet another income stream. Because publishing a book needs a Kickstarter campaign... It all looks a little greedy, does it not? Maybe they hope they will get $20 million from the campaign... for a book.

0229cec11bb37465637ae4be425f6e9f1f221909 (resized).jpg

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I read this in the Pinball News Expo coverage:
I saw a photo of Gary in a Penguin costumer, but to me it looked like the Fat Capitalist from Monopoly. Now I wouldn't even have been thinking along those lines if Stern hadn't been price gouging

You were not the only one thinking that when they saw the picture. Monopoly man GREED.

#33 3 years ago

problem is, everybody will be looking for good older games, creating a demande and price will go up there too.
greedy companies like stern and JJP will keep the price up (for no real reasons), the casual players won't be able to buy anymore.
people with more money than common senses will keep buying like it's the next best thing.

13
#34 3 years ago

There really isn't aNY reason to preorder .

We need to get together and starv the big business Stern ,JJP are competing to see how much they push the price up.

My two cents

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from trimoto:

There really isn't aNY reason to preorder .
We need to get together and starv the big business Stern ,JJP are competing to see how much they push the price up.

Upvote times 1000!

#36 3 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Could you please point out one game being revealed at Expo right now that costs under $5000?
That's the focus here. Not only are the new games priced out of most people's comfortable grasp, but their prices are also making all the older ones go up. It's a true 2x edge sword, and it could potentially devastate our hobby.

My point exactly!
I would love to own a Addams Family but at the rate in which used pins are rising I don't see it possible. People who can't afford a $10,000 NIB will start looking at the used pins. I give it time before us little guys are pushed out of the hobby all together.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

This community keeps Stern and JJP's heads above water, and they literally put a wang in our eye and say "thanks now take that and enjoy it".

If someone literally put a wang in my eye I would be seriously pissed off. Not a violent man, but they would probably get a nut punch at least. High prices just make me not buy new machines.

#38 3 years ago

$5300 MSRP on the new Domino's pinball machine...

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

If someone literally put a wang in my eye I would be seriously pissed off. Not a violent man, but they would probably get a nut punch at least.

I present to you... a Vera Wang!

I await my nut punch.

tmp_26242-vera-wang-10-1846422098.jpg

#40 3 years ago

It's comical that Stern charged to attend their birthday party. These guys print money and they haven't found the price ceiling yet imo.

12
#41 3 years ago

Btw I'm planning on having a birthday next year. PM me for tickets, it will likely be epic.

#42 3 years ago

I would rather see lower cost pins without expensive licensing to washed up rock stars and has been actors. Give me hand drawn artwork, card games and busty women throughout. Why would a operator drop 8-9k on a new game and put it on location hoping that some idiot doesn't spill beer on it or vandalize it.

#43 3 years ago

I am just hoping Homepin enters the market at the $4k to $5k price point and tips the market in the other direction.

#44 3 years ago

The new pricing model is greedy and disgraceful to those of us that have supported their companies. I was so looking to getting one of my favorite pinball designers game (PL). But no way in hell I would pay for such an overpriced, profit driven game.

And now Gary has taken it to a new low with a 15k pin. Batman.

As others have mentioned, how did Stern go from the low 4's for a fully loaded pin to a 15k one? I have great respect for these businessmen, and understand you have to make money to stay in business. But it's the greed I don't care for.

These prices can't continue and will quickly cave in on itself. I ageee with others, complaining will only go so far. How you change this is by not buying them

Truly a sad day

#45 3 years ago
Quoted from vcloverjr:

As others have mentioned, how did Stern go from the low 4's for a fully loaded pin to a 15k one? I have great respect for these businessmen, and understand you have to make money to stay in business. But it's the greed I don't care for.

As it turns out, the free hand of the market really likes money.

#46 3 years ago

Imagine a car company that only sold luxury brands. Sure BMWs are great cars but most drive Ford, Chevy, Honda, etc...

While I'm not a huge fan of the Pro, Premium, LE model I thought it offered the range of options for different people.

This crazy escalation of prices up to $9,000+ for an unproven game prices me out.

#47 3 years ago
Quoted from cait001:

$5300 MSRP on the new Domino's pinball machine...

I think it's worth it. I have only seen gameplay on youtube and that was enough to spark my curiousity.
Mike

#48 3 years ago

Pinball companies shouls just listen to the prophet Jeff Goldblum

Jurassic-Park-Meme (resized).jpg

#49 3 years ago

The saddest part about Expo is I'm now more committed to buy Ghostbusters and Metallica Pro. The new games are well beyond what I'm comfortable spending. Can you believe that GB Premium seems like a bargain compared to the two big games shown‽

-3
#50 3 years ago

Everything cost more today. Look at the cost of cars and luxury items. Labor costs, materials, health care and insurance are way up. I know insurance as this is the industry I am in. I just got my masters which helped me make another 50k a year and will be buying what I want. Do I like the high prices No but not much we can do. You can always buy a older machines for less monies.

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