Prices are crazy on some older titles and im just going to sit back and watch. I dont really care if I get my hands on some of them. Yes i would like a MM as much as the next guy but for 15k? NEVER! Im just hoping that the new games coming out are worthy of a NIB purchase. If I see a great deal on a pin I will jump. Also there are some fun B and C games that could be haved at a decent price. Just pick some of thoes up and trade them in a few months when your done with them like party zone, Hook, "insert your interested B or C title here". When they stop selling for unreal money the price will drop a bit. I dont think the bubble is going to pop IMO bc there are a lot of new people getting into the hobby. We have others putting out some pins and not just Stern. Stern is going to step it up bc of the comp. For me moving foward (and passed the high price A pin) Im looking for the good NIB's and some B and C's.

I've also noticed that over all prices are on the rise
the question is are they being sold and at what price?
I mean it's no ones business but the sellers/buyers

I sold most of my games on mr pin and usually pretty quickly. Just seems to get a bigger audience than elsewhere. Can't say Gorilla's CVs will do the same but maybe.

Let's all start playing Sys 11 games. These guys are badass, I had no idea they got so creative on those screens! PLUS they are lookers. RG just looks so cool and minty, Whirlwind looks like a high end pin. An expensive Sys 11 game seems to be over 1500...let's switch T_G !

I agree that prices are getting pretty nuts. I still refuse to spend more than $2K on any one single machine. Yeah, that means I won't ever get any of the "A" list titles, but you know what? I don't go car shopping for Ferraris or Lamborghinis either, and I don't feel like I'm a deprived driver. From that viewpoint, pins are a bit cooler, since friends have no problem letting me play their MM or BBB, but I have yet to meet someone who lets their friends drive their fancy cars....

I find that I use new Sterns as the overall judge for ridiculous-ness of pricing. To me, that means no pin should ever cost more than $4~$6K, because at that price, I could go buy NIB.

Later,
EV

I was strolling through the Mr. Pinball for sale ads today too, and thought the exact same thing. For the most part, pins on that site always seemed to be pretty reasonable. The three CV's listed on there for big $ tells me that they have now officially 'jumped the shark'. Oh well, guess it's just up to us pinsiders to remain semi-realistic!

(No offense to anyone listing their pins on the high side as it's your prerogative to price as you see fit.) My question is: Are pinball prices all going up? (& / or staying there?)

Don't mention those............now they will go up too.

Quoted for truth, sys11 was a revolutionary era for pinball and the games are great and still mostly affordable. Problem with this double-edged sword is once the sys11 train really leaves the station, watch how quickly those prices climb as well. This is already happening in the case of FH, and more recently I've seen a climbing EATPM (probably due to the recent popularity surge of SS).

That said, 11Bs rock. Taxi, SOF, BG, Banzai Run, Cyclone, Bad Cats... all solid titles, along with the aforementioned Whirlwind, possibly my favorite pin ever.

My mistake, FH is WPC not sys11.

Have you guys seen what Gilligan's Island is doing?

philadelphia.craigslist.org link

was one of my favorite hunting areas - not anymore

Mr. Pinball continues to have trust problems with both Google and Bing! They keep show up lower and lower on search engine results over the years. Those ads they sell, and all of the spam issues in the past are haunting them. They really need to do a complete overhall of there website. Reinvent to stay relivent!

The Gorilla, your right the prices is way out of wack! Maybe a sucker will come along and buy it.

-Aaron

You know what, smartest thing I have ever heard out of your mouth to date.

People 5 years ago, in it for 5 years prior to you getting into it were probably saying the same thing. I look at prices now, and cringe, where when I got into it, I just accepted what the prices were, much like I imagine noobs today do when buying machines.

Pinball is hot, demand is insame, product level is low, that's the math.

In another 2 years, mark my words, you will be WISHING you could come back and get some of the overpriced machines we are all cringing at today.

This about 2 years ago when wh20 and funhouse could be found around $1,500-$1,800 all day.

You better take a few games off your wish list then....

There's no denying it. Pinball is becoming a hobby for people that have A LOT of disposable income.

People may not like my opinion on this, but I think one of the biggest problems in this hobby are the hoarders. If you have a 20 machine collection and you play them like crazy, good for you. If you have a 20 machine collection you barely play and another 10 machines that have sat in some storage container for 8 years because you'll get around to fixing/shopping them some day (but you honestly never will), or they're there solely because you're out of room, please sell the damn things. Please get them into the market which already has crazy demand which is part of the reason why machines are so expensive.

That RS for under $2k seems like a good deal.

The idea of perpetual price increases at this rate is pure fallacy. The vast majority of pinball enthusiasts are in the same age group, and the age group is not expanding, just disposable income for that fixed demographic. If current pinflation rate holds, MM will surpass 6 figures by 2025... is that realistic?

Pinball prices have a group mentality about them.

There's a ceiling for almost everything, because at some point it becomes extremely profitable to produce the old games like MM. All up the up front cost is zero (no design, no programming, no marketing, etc) so it's merely the cost of making the game. Selling 1000 brand new MM at $7k for a $2k profit each doesn't sound all that hard considering where prices are at now. Once you get one done, that's when the floodgates open..AFM, MB, TZ, etc all brand new reproductions. Prices plumment. There is no real collector value for having an old vs. a newer game of the same game. With the prices continuing to rise rapidly, it's only a matter of time before this becomes reality.

Pins arent over priced it just reflects how popular pinball is becoming again! If you happen to own those "over priced" titles then you likely made a good investment.

The problem is not with the sellers asking crazy amounts its with the buyers paying them. As long as people keep paying the higher amounts, the sellers will ask higher amounts. They are crazy not to. The buyers however, are crazy to pay those sums.

market will settle eventually...always does no matter what the collectible is.

Lol. Where can I get one of these?

I saw those 3 CV this morning. CV is the last "B/W" game I really wanted in my collection (or maybe TOTAN; whichever comes first) and my heart just dropped when I saw those listings.

New people entering the hobby may be one cause of the insanity, the other IMO is the increased level of elitism that is being propagated by the "collectors" out there.

If their high end restored MM is worth $20K, then mine must be worth at least $15K. This type of logic is crippling the average enthusiast from getting into the hobby and sending the rest of us to reconsider what we're really doing here and why we got into it in the first place.

I really think pricing will fall a bit in 2 years time T_G. My answer to the crazy increase of prices is not to contribute to them. If I am going to be paying 6 to 8K for a pin it will be for a brand new one not one that is 20 years old.

I came to the realization that while many of those older pins are cool they are no where close to being worth the 6K-8K range (to me). So I will not pay over what I think a pin is worth to me and if I don't add any older ones then that is more money I will be saving to buy the new pins that come out. I can't wait to see how LCDs are going to be integrated in the future and crazy prices on older pins will just help me save up for em.

Buy new, not much room for haggling.

I freaking love my CV, but if they start seriously hitting $10k, it's going down the road! Heck...I saw someone the other day (don't remember if it was here or RGP) wanting to trade both his low-play HUO Batman:TDK AND a nice TOM for one. If CV wasn't my daughter's favorite (and my wife and I both love it too), I would have taken that one...it's almost a no-brainer. It definitely looks like CV is next on the MM/AFM crazy train...

These are great points. Nobody pays large cash for pre DMD pins anymore unless they are super rare. I think the same will happen if this current pinball boom continues to bring us new technology and advancement. If Stern, JJP and the boutique guys push each other hard enough, our old B/W games may pale in comparison in a few years. It's only a matter of time and that is why the bubble WILL burst on these older titles...

Eventually they'll be like wood rails sitting next to an AFM.

Very good point, I remember when I got into it about 6 years ago. I did accept prices at what they were. I remember stating many times, I would never pay 3k for a pinball machine, then I bought a 3k machine. Then it was 4k, then I bought a 4k, then it was 5, etc etc. Several things have changed that affected the market. As the market changed, so did my opinion and collection. At one time I had mostly pre 90's, wish I had them all still to this day. Space and Funds dictated what I got. I remember looking at MM and thinking how over priced it was, over time that view changed as the market changed.

I have actually seen more then one case of this, yes it is a factor, but how much? No idea. If you have the money and space then you can support this. I suspect if most pinheads had the money and space, we would all have some machines in storage

Very true, if they continue to be priced out affordability for the average collector, then you have a smaller market. IF the market shrinks, the prices will fall in line. How many are available and how many people want them. That is what keeps MM, BBB and MB etc so high, lower available units vs number of people who want them.

Interestingly, their is no way to know the actual number of units left, just because they made 4000 MM's does not mean that is how many are out there. That number could be 50% or 90% of production, no way to tell. Bottom line is, demand drives it, the number available will not increase unless they are reproduced.

One other factor will be if the prices do start to drop, will many people bail or hold on to them because they do not want to take a loss? It will still be demand vs availability. If the market gets flooded with machines then demand goes lower, more machines then people who want them. If the high end "A" titles fall 30% in a year, will a ton of people be selling them to reduce loss or will they not care and keep them in their collection regardless of value vs. investment.

Personally, if my MM is worth half of what it is today a year from now, I could care less. I enjoy the game and it is hard to get on any day, regardless of market price. When I get tired of playing it, I will consider selling/trading it and getting something else, just like I have always done. The market value will be what it is at that time, not now.

Take money out of the equation and I would never sell any of them, I love Pinball and cannot imagine life without it. Bury me in a pinball machine cabinet, just do not destroy a machine to do it

You have to remember these pins going at high prices are probably being purchased by investment bankers, physicans, (government officials )to whom money is not a concern.

I've seen a few of these "the bubble is going to burst soon" comments. I've only been in the hobby for less than a year, but I've been involved in other collecting hobbies (high end movie posters).

So when has overall pinball value actually decreased in the last 10 years? Has there every been a significant value adjustment as we see in real estate?

Due to increases in demand and a decrease in supply - I don't see how prices will go anywhere except up. Maybe JJP will help to stablize values for a while, but how probable is it for his company to put out 3-4 pins every year? At this time, I would say not very good.

I'll keep my under $2k bang-for-buck machines and buy NIB in the future. The high prices on A listers should be good for Stern and JJP. I never thought I'd consider new in the past, but now I'd rather have NIB vs. a similarly priced (or higher) 20 year old outdated machine that tends to break down more than something new. Stern has stepped up their game and some of the new pins deserve to be in the all time top ten. It will only be more fun as LCD and new system architectures come into being that add to the experience. After the majority of top 10 become mostly Stern LE's and JJP machines, perhaps Williams prices will come down again.

I remember when CV was 1700-2000 NIB lol.

They once said the same things about the real estate market.

So what are people doing now? Just throwing insane high numbers on pins for sale just to see if they get it? Thus making everyone else do the same... Honda effect

Well I suppose it makes getting out of the hobby easy, sell high, keep money.

Yep. I would take a look at that one if it were in my area.. I have always wanted that game.

Back on topic, I agree. Mr. Pinball prices have started to look like E-bay.. Not quite as bad, but getting there.. Take RS for instance. MRPB has a listing for $3300, $3000, $2700 and $2300. The $2300 is the only one close to what I consider the value of this title and I still think it is too High !

Weird really. Prices go up and up. So NIB does not seem so bad. NIB prices go up so older titles seem better value and on it goes. Upward spiral at the moment........remember the game musical chairs??

Pinball values have stayed somewhat steady with some incline. Anything non-dmd has pretty much gone down compared to 10 years ago (with the exception of some system 11 titles). The market has never seen these "A" titles explode overnight though. The A title explosion is related to parts availability and skyrocketing NIB prices of Stern Machines. Since the new Sterns aren't technically that much different than their older B/W counterparts, new collectors are willing to drop coin on them since they still seem relevant by today's machines standards.

There will be a decline in DMD pricing, when, who knows? But, there is no way these titles will skyrocket at the rate they have been skyrocketing. Once a mainstream newer machine hits the market, it will be like other previous generation machines, they will start to seem "old" compared to the newer stuff on the market.

Nah. That's why I consider it a "wish" list and not a "Shopping For" list.

vid1900 said:When in public, always put on your "Pinball is Gay" t-shirt.
Lol. Where can I get one of these?

Wear it with pride

pinball-is-gay.jpg

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in Mr. Pinball pricing. I think a lot of people just "park" their games on that site with no real intention of selling just because it doesn't cost them anything to do so. I could list a Raven or Popeye on that site for $15K in hopes of artificially inflating the prices or waiting for a sucker to come along, much like what happens on Ebay. It's not a true indicator of selling prices or even what the going rate is. It's really just an arbitrary price that someone put up.

I've never been discouraged by pins that are listed or even sold for extraordinary amounts because these pins are only a small fraction of the market and there are literally hundreds of games that are still available for $1500 or less that are a lot of fun that I have yet to own.

Maybe this will lead to a resurgence in pinball in the wild in gay bars. WOZ would do well with the Judy Garland tie-in.

+1

My biggest problem with Mr. Pinball is the dozens of old listings for machines that I KNOW are long sold. Or sold... then sold to someone else... then to someone else. Really out of date stuff.

The only real world scenario that we have of this is BBB. And the repro's didn't do much if anything to diminish the price of the originals. And now the repro's themselves are garnering 15K for what originally cost 4.5K.

There will always be collector value for original games or unique games....TAFG vs TAF. LOTR vs LOTR LE. Prototypes, samples, one-off's....It is what it is.