The flippers suck indeed.

I have played some (a Screamo comes to mind) that were retrofitted for new style flippers so it can be done.

I guess it depends on the particular machine, but I really like the two I have which are Pinky and Struggle Buggies. There would be no use cradling on either of these and the advantage of impulse is they are stronger than the single wound coils used on other machines of that era.

No shortage of kick with these flippers, and having a hold winding would only make it easier for the ball to escape under them.

StruggleBuggies (resized).jpg

Heck, you could put full functioning modern three inch flippers in there if you like. Or you could just buy a different machine that already has them.

Or you could suck it up and play the game as Mr. Williams or Mr. Mabs originally designed it.

Relax grandpa.

I love old shit as much as the next guy but impulse flippers suck. They just do. It's not about flipper passes or cradling balls (though it would be nice to do drop catches and other tricks to slow down or control the ball like I can on my Wonderland) - it's the complete stupidity of the impulse flipper system. Why do the games even have two flipper buttons?! Might as well just have a big round one on the lockdown bar like a pitch and bat.

I had a Jalopy and it was a neat curio. But the game would have been better with regular style flippers. Impulse flippers are just dumb. Playing them can actually make the player stupider, as you regress into an embryonic state.

I don't have a problem with them on the machines I own and so what if both flip at the same time. I have six flipper Gottlieb games where three flip at the same time on either side, but they are not as powerful as these.

I don't see how making them flip separately or adding a hold coil will make these particular games play any better. If you know how to time your flip, then they work just fine.

It just adds variety. There are plenty of other games that don't have them.

I have a Jalopy and yes impulse flippers are not ideal. I with the help of Ken Layton retrofitted with normal flippers. All can be put back if the next owner (O-din? ) wants. I made a how to thread but can't link from my I Pad but easy to search for here on Pinside.

On my williams woodrails generally convert the impulse flippers to gottlieb style hold flippers. i like it but some people don't like that mod.

So why impulse flippers in the first place? I own and have owned several early flipper games, and have done a little reverse engineering on both kinds.

The first flipper game, Humpty Dumpty by Gottlieb and those in the few years that followed used a single wound coil for each side that would operate all the flippers on that side and used no end of stroke switch to cut the power. So the coils could not be very strong or they would burn up. With enough power to maybe get the ball back up to the next set of flippers. Which is fine as that is how they were designed to play.

Williams took a different approach where they could use a stronger single wound coil, but had an end of stroke switch that would trigger a relay to cut power so the coil would not burn up. This enabled a single set of lower flippers to have enough power to move the ball further on up the playfield.

Both got away from their original systems, Gottlieb a few years sooner than Williams and they all went to double wound coils with EOS switches. Neither original system is ideal by today's standards, but worked well in the games they were in.

Just as I don't really see the need to change the early Gottlieb flipper games to make them stronger, I don't see the need to change the Williams system so they can hold a ball which most wouldn't anyway. But if somebody does these conversions on either it would be nice to keep all the original components with the game so the next guy can put them back if he wants.

Hi,
My only impulse flipper game is a Williams Freshie, and I tend to agree with the other posters that this flipper arrangement is not my ideal. But, I also agree with O-din, that depending upon the game, it may not be a problem. I got my game at the Allentown show and, lucky for me, it was passed over despite great condition and rather inexpensive. Just needed a few tweaks to get it 100%.

I had made a video of it and originally posted it on the pinrescue site, as a thanks to Russ who helped me get it going. Has some interesting features - tilt forgiveness (a tilt doesn't end the game, just the scoring on the ball) and "handicap scoring' (if you don't win a game on points or specials after 6 games in a row, the 7th game will light a lane for special to help you out. If you still don't get a game, the 8th game lights two lanes for special, and so on. If by the 10th game, you still haven't won, then every lane is lit. No way can you not win, then! Then the handicap counter goes back to zero for the next round...)

Also, as pointed out, the flippers are strong...can send a ball back to the top of the playfield. If there's enough bells and pops and light show, then the quirky flippers seem no big deal.

Joel

Cradle on the Freshie, and see ya later ball! SDTM.

That's a neat looking game. Lots of pep too.

O-din is mentioned a whole lot about cradling but they kind of suck even if you don't want to cradle, it's all about the feel and shot of the flipper. I would rarely cradle on these games either but that doesn't mean that the normal setup would not change anything. It's hard to explain, but these flippers ruin the feel and any chance of a good shot you are going for. Also considering they drop right away and don't "follow through" with a shot, they sometimes feel weaker because the ball doesn't have a chance to roll off the end of the flipper, just gets smacked by it.

Here you go, and it seems Ken Layton linked to his own thread in that thread too but I'll leave that there:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/upgrading-williams-impulse-flippers-and-carbon-ring-bumpers-temporary

Maybe he can also start a thread on how to upgrade early Gottlieb flippers too. Haven't heard too many people complaining about the weakness of those, but I'm sure somebody out there will. Then they won't need six anymore either. It will be like a whole new machine.

I fucking hate carbon ring bumpers. Pita to repair

-Jeff

Thank you Otaku.

Jeff,
They are not fixable as no one makes the rings no more. Changed the carbon ring bumpers for gottlieb parts too in the same link as I think you saw.

I agree O-din keep the original parts with the game. I guess you don't want a Jalopy.

Maybe I can use my Lady Robin Hood as a guinea pig. Certainly all that extra linkage can go. All I need is six yellow dot coils, brackets, eos switches and all the usual hardware and then I'm in business.

DSCN5128 (resized).JPG

There are plenty of purists but their representation on Pinside is fairly small. If Dirt were here he'd likely be opposed to mods on the Williams impulse and early Gottlieb flippers. I agree with O-din to some degree. If it's your game you can do what you want to it. Although if you have to turn it into something it isn't to be able to enjoy it, maybe it isn't the game for you. There are tons of others to choose from.

I'm opposed to anything that costs more money than I really need to spend.

Those old Williams games used many flipper parts and quite a few parts have been No Longer Available for at least 40 years. One thing they did in that era was to use wireforms as flipper linkages which not only wore out/fatigued, but also chewed up the hole in the flipper pawl. To top that, they used brass bushings pressed into the playfield for the flipper shaft to go through (no nylon bushings).

When I converted that Paratrooper from impulse flippers to standard, it made the game play so much better. Even the machine's owner commented about how much more fun it was to play.

EDIT:
My mistake. The wireform linkages were used on the Exhibit Supply "Swanee" pinball. The Williams "Paratrooper" had metal flipper links the same as Gottlieb used in that era. It was after reviewing my pictures of both machines that I discovered my error.

They all used those brass bushings back in the day, but would be fairly simple to replace with a nylon one if need be. As far as the wireforms, I'm not seeing them. It was fairly simple for me to get this system working optimally even on this high mileage game. The key is fine tuning that end of stroke switch. But different strokes for different folks.

If parts are gone or it's been hacked sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

DSCN5136 (resized).JPG

reckon they are great..you can play pinball with one hand with a beer in the other

Haven't played one but I'd like too. Might be the same 'curve' as going from 3" to 2" flippers. Didn't seem right to me, at first, but then you realize it's a whole different animal and appreciate the play and differences. Old school baby!

I'm pretty open minded and it just bummed me out, maybe if they reacted a little better it would have been better. It doesn't seem like they cut off at the end of stroke point, is it immediate? Just felt like a very quick pulse, to where the flipper lost power before it even finished going up (not EOS). I can very accurately describe it as a flopping fish. That is 100% of what it reminded me of, hah.

I think one of the games I played with these was Hayburners.

Not if you hoard old stock

--Jeff

They'll do that if the EOS switch is out of adjustment. It takes some fine tuning to get them just right.If you adj it too far, the flippers won't drop, but then you need to be careful not to hold them too long. I've got mine right at the very end of stroke and they whack the ball real good.

Can you add I prefer games with no flippers to the poll?

This!

https://www.facebook.com/prewarpinball/

--Jeff

Likely?

He's opposed to putting power switches on games that didn't have them, so I would believe that changing the impulse flippers out would have his melon exploding.

I guess I'll just put it this way. The two impulse games I have set up shoot fine, but they are also the two that never get completed.

Struggle Buggies I am yet to get the number six or seven bumper, a lot of which has to do with plunger shots on all balls and which must be done in order, so I keep on playing it. Over and over again. Pinky has more objectives than many newer games, so again, it can get played over and over again. Anything that might make them easier would take away from the thrill of trying.

I prefer impulse flipper games stay impulse, and I prefer a certain type of flipperless game above all others...

It's a wonder these games made any money back in the day. But I can tell by how hard some must have been played that they did.

That's all the had, and all they knew. So they played them.

Some were rode harder than others.

rodehard (resized).jpg

If I had any space left would like one classic impulse flippers game - maybe a Spitfire or one of the other Star specials games that can award 200 replays.

And no way would I change them as I would buy one because it was a different, unique playing experience and part of history.

Doubt I would have 2 but as I haven't played one, I could be wrong.