(Topic ID: 307852)

Improving Sound Quality - The DIY Route

By davegauth

2 years ago


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    Topic index (key posts)

    11 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

    Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

    Post #5 Simple front speaker swap instructions Posted by davegauth (2 years ago)

    Post #41 Cabinet speaker replacement instructions/info Posted by davegauth (2 years ago)

    Post #162 Kicker vs JBL speaker comparison Posted by davegauth (2 years ago)

    Post #165 MBQuart vs Alpine speaker comparison Posted by davegauth (2 years ago)

    Post #186 Kenwood vs Pyle speaker comparison Posted by davegauth (2 years ago)

    Post #244 Stern amplifier and sound signal output INFO Posted by davegauth (2 years ago)

    Post #269 5.25" speaker overall ranking to date Posted by davegauth (2 years ago)

    Post #352 Speaker baffles info and summary Posted by davegauth (2 years ago)

    Post #392 Adding an Amplifier (General) INFO Posted by davegauth (2 years ago)

    Post #424 Thingverse file link for printing 5.25" speaker mount Posted by Sleal16 (2 years ago)


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    #1035 1 year ago
    Quoted from pete_d:

    I did mention this in my earlier post, but I understand not everyone wants to read through the longer ones.
    The 3D part I designed includes a hole, through which a hex key wrench (allen key) can be inserted. I'm replacing the existing crosspoint/Philips screws with hex-drive screws.
    I was hoping to find hex head screws in that size (5-44 4-48). That way, a regular open-end wrench could be used to secure the fastener. I think for this application, one could even 3D print a suitable wrench, since the screw doesn't really need a lot of torque on it.
    But none of the usual hardware suppliers have a 5-44 4-48 hex head screw. They do have options for the hex drive screws though.
    The through-hole for the hex wrench prints perfectly without supports and doesn't compromise the basic strength of the mount, so given that I was going to be replacing the screws anyway, I think it's a fine solution.
    In theory, you could still use the original screws, if you can find a very small screwdriver that would fit through the hole. When I looked (again, at my usual suppliers), I found screwdrivers small enough to fit in terms of diameter, but they are still all too long. The shortest I found was over 4", which is still too long to squeeze into the space inside the speaker hole where it'd need to go. A screwdriver would have to be no longer than 3" to fit.
    In terms of trying to do it without the through-hole, I'm not sure even the smallest 90-degree driver would work. The thinnest I've seen still need almost 1/2" of clearance, and there's barely 1/4" between the screw head and the mounting boss.
    That said, I did design the part with what I think are sufficiently large gaps around those holes to provide options for a larger wrench or driver to at least be able to rotate around with the screw head, in case other people have an easier time finding specific alternatives than I did.

    If I'm following on the issue with the LCD plate screw access - I don't see any reason that needs screwed into the speaker mount. Why not just design the plate with channels to slide over the screws (screw the LCD just into the metal housing, speaker mount just goes over).

    4 weeks later
    #1085 1 year ago

    This thread is an awesome resource, thanks to those that started/contribute. It's kinda grown past the point of utility in some ways though...I was riding in the car two hours back from Pincinatti last weekend, and told myself I was gonna read though whole thing...got 6 or 7 pages in...

    davegauth - it would be great to see you distill down the "take home" you've learned on a separate page or post at some point.

    On a related note, would a database of setups folks have done be useful? I'm a big fan of Precision Flippers, and set this up so folks could submit the settings and coils that worked best on a given game:

    Www.whiskysimple.com/preflips-db

    Would be simpler for me to setup something similar for audio setups, only question is what to ask about. Game, speakers, ohms, amps, crossover, signal capture method, game audio settings, maybe a brief review come to mind...if this sounds like something useful that folks would contribute to, let me know and I'll get to it.

    #1088 1 year ago

    davegauth - yeah, I hear you on the info overload/to many variables to account for and tell the whole story as far as sound settings. Does seem like it might be useful to say "I have GOTG - what did other folks out in here to upgrade the sound, and what did they think about it" and search and see some options. I did note with interest that your pick of the Kickers as the winner was largely tied to the specific audio in Godzilla.

    On a related note, since I wasn't up to fuss with adding an amp at the moment and had a crossover lying around, I wound up putting those kickers and a JBL sub w/ crossover in my Zilla. Fussed around a bunch with the EQ settings with and without crossover, ultimately decided I was pretty happy just turning off the EQ and using the crossover. Think I could get a 5% better result w/ the EQ, but not worth the hassle to me.

    4 weeks later
    #1103 1 year ago

    davegauth - looking at your alpine/kicker comparison, would you say the alpines might be a better option for some pins? Sounds like your ultimate call was kind of GZ specific, and your description of the alpines sound like they might go better in a music pin. Kinda splitting hairs, but deciding what to put in the LZ I just picked up. Important decision when you're listening to the greatest band of all time

    #1104 1 year ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    Thoughts on pairing this JBl 810 sub with kicker Cs5 backbox speakers in a modern stern like GZ or IMDN? Winning combo?
    Looking for a swap in upgrade and don’t want to go nuts with pinwoofers or amps or external subs.
    Thanks.

    I did this with min, but stuck with kicker 4" for simplicity since I line out to my home theater anyway. Big upgrade, super easy. Then add the myth advanced flaming speaker kit

    #1106 1 year ago
    Quoted from davegauth:

    In my opinion - the Alpine would be the better choice for a rock pin. Granted you can't go wrong with the Kickers. There is just a bit of a different sound signature to the kickers that I feel fits better with some of the artificial sounds of some pins.
    I have Alpines waiting to go into my personal Rush... Still waiting on that new cabinet... GRrrrrrrrrrrrr
    Just as an aside.. If I were to replace the speakers in my truck - I would go with the alpines for sure. It's really hard to beat the all around clean sound of them and the smooth silk dome tweaters of anything else in the same price level.

    Thanks, I was pretty sure from your review you were going to say that. Do you happen to know if those are similar profile to the Kickers/Kenwood's? I just ordered the expression lighting speaker lights from ninja camp, gotta make sure the alpines will fit.

    Also: What sub/midrange cab speaker are you going with for your rush?

    #1107 1 year ago

    Oh, and jackd104 - I wired a cheap crossover ($10-15 on Amazon) in front of the subwoofer and just turned off the stern EQ. You could probably get 10% improvement with the EQ if you want to play with it, but this was easy and sounds way better than stock with minimal hassle.

    #1115 1 year ago
    Quoted from rocketman:

    I'm looking to upgrade the sound on my recently acquired Spike 2 Rush Pro and have been reading the posts which have a lot of good info. I went to order the Subwoofer and Line-Out cable for the CN5 connector mentioned in post #244 from Pinsound but didn't realize they were in France until I was checking out and saw the 2 to 5 weeks shipping time. I searched US pin suppliers hoping to find the Pinsound cable in the US for quicker shipping. I don't have the molex pins or tools to make my own mentioned in this thread. My question is does anyone know of a US source that has the PinSound cable? If not, then I'll place my order with PinSound, I know they have quicker shipping options which are expensive considering the cable is $20 and I'd rather pay for the standard 2 to 5 weeks shipping.
    Thanks,
    David

    This will get you there, and they generally ship fast: https://pinnovators.myshopify.com/collections/stern-subwoofer-kits/products/pinsub-spike-spike2-stern-kit

    The line out will be in front of the stern EQ; you can use that if you want, or turn off EQ in settings.

    Rest of the stuff for my LZ upgrade came today, woot.

    #1124 1 year ago
    Quoted from benime:

    CN5 -> Dayton Amp and Powered Sub
    Dayton Amp -> Backbox and Cabinet speaker
    Although if you have the powered sub you probably don't need the cabinet speaker/JBL.

    I really, like the effect of decent sub rumbling the cab while playing. I line out to a Definitive Tech 6.1 system and still add a sub to all the pins.

    #1125 1 year ago

    I just put this JBL 82A in my led zep, and I have the 810 in my GZ. Thought I'd try the other as it's listed as a free air design, might work better in an pin cab. I wouldn't say I can really tell a difference, both sound fine.

    JBL 8" Car Audio Subwoofer https://a.co/d/5eORTmv

    3 weeks later
    #1149 1 year ago

    Sidebar: anyone have a rec for a replacement speaker for a classic stern (Seawitch). Obviously not looking for hi-fi, just need a replacement and not sure what would be a good fit.

    1 month later
    #1178 1 year ago

    Anyone have specific suggestions for upgrading a wpc-95 (Cirqus Voltaire)? Have one slated for my next restore project, think I may put a pin sound board in.

    #1182 1 year ago
    Quoted from Markharris2000:

    the DIY approach outlined by Tony Dziedic years ago will likely yield similiar results... for half the price (or less).

    Can you point me towards that?

    #1189 1 year ago

    Who's actually tried the "Boom Boom" from PBL here? I was ordering something else and noticed it, then saw it came with a mounting adapter and even a molex connector already wired...Hell, for $45 bucks and made easy enough for a monkey to install in two minutes, I'll give it a whirl. Curious if anyone had an opinion since I didn't really find it mentioned on a thread search. Seems like a stupid good deal even if it's halfway decent.

    #1192 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinash:

    I didn’t realize the mounting ring and molex were included. That makes it a great value (although I’ve never heard one).

    Yeah, I've been pretty happy with JBLs, but for about $20 less and an 8" ready to go I'm intrigued. Will report back what I think, I've got a couple dif JBLs and a couple goodwoods in different machines to test against. Honestly my fav thing about putting a decent woofer in the cab is feeling the bass in the cab as you play anyway.

    #1195 1 year ago

    Update: found the boom underwhelming compared to a JBL stage 610. Guess you get what you pay for.

    1 month later
    #1228 11 months ago
    Quoted from mrbillishere:

    Here's my report regarding the swap-out of audio components I recently completed on FF LE. Total cost came out to under $240 and that includes an old unused sub that I must have bought years ago and found in storage so I suppose technically it was a sunk cost meaning I really just had an out of pocket cost of about $200. Regardless, it sounds a lot better than stock and I have a bluetooth capable pinball jukebox now too. (I find that last bit hilariously ironic given there is a 5.1 channel, proper sound system 5' away but where's the fun in that?)
    Sound upgrade BOM looks like this:
    ------------------------------------------
    Kicker 5.25" CSC54 Speakers in the head: 80.96
    AIYIMA A03 2.1 Channel Amplifier (50W+50W+100W) TPA3116: 71.24
    UGREEN 10' cable, RCA L+R to 2-channel 3.5mm aux-style jack: 12.13
    Pinsound CN5 adapter cable: 31.40
    An old, NIB Pyramid Super Pro PW865US-X 8" subwoofer I had in storage: 40.00 (just guessing, no idea what I paid for it.)
    20' of 16 AWG Speaker wire left over from another car audio project: 0.00
    10' of 1" braided cable sleeve left over from a home theatre project: 0.00
    2 banana plugs left over from a home theatre project: 0.00
    Total cost: $235.73
    If you'd like more pictures, here's an album demonstrating the final results:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/hWZxpUJwjgGvHRDq6
    All I have left to do is relocate and secure the amp to the right side, behind the coinbox divider. I'm waiting as I want to try another sub or two as I have no idea if the one in there right now is any good (they are long since discontinued.) I'd also like to enclose the sub so I don't want to commit to the amp's final location just yet.
    This was an afternoon project with the ballgame on in the background. Totally plug-n-play and fully reversible. I can't imagine I spent more than 3-4 hours doing this, and part of that was installing a type 13 speaker light kit, which I might add really looks great. [quoted image]

    Nice work man. If you've got an LE though, you NEED the expression speaker lights from ninja camp. Have them in my Zep and it's badass. Doug's stuff is great but duping the Expression lights is next level. If the game is not in a lineup the Undercab kit is totally worth it too - I have it and it's awesome, but you don't really appreciate it unless the game is sitting on its own.

    2 weeks later
    #1242 10 months ago

    Anyone found a mini-amp with either bluetooth OUT, or a headphone jack (where you could plug in a bluetooth transmitter)? I've done speakers on most of mine, but have been thinking about adding some amps; would be really nice when the wife is sleeping to be able to just link up to my earbuds without fooling with adding headphone jacks externally.

    #1244 10 months ago
    Quoted from Mro-Tek:

    I just want to give a huge thank you for everyone in this forum sharing great information, especially davegauth. I just upgraded my iron maiden pro with 4 inch kickers and a JBL sub. It sounds night and day better that the stock speakers and all done at a fraction of the cost that companies charge for kits. I am probably not going to add an amp as this already sounds amazing to me.
    Does this process only apply to modern machines or could I do the same thing with Bram Stoker's Dracula?(removing the old speakers and soldering in new ones) or would I just be best off just adding an external subwoofer to it? thanks again!

    Concept applies to any game, implementation may vary. I did my DE Star Wars a while back to rather impressive effect; just used some cheap pyles in the backbox, goldwood sub with a crossover wired in. It thumps now. A crossover is going to be necessary on the old ones to use an actual sub (those are just midrange speakers usually), as that filters out the high frequencies so the sub does its job. Actually, I've done a crossover on most of the new ones as they're like $10 and simpler than fusing with sterns crappy digital eq.

    #1251 10 months ago
    Quoted from Sorokyl:

    This is what pinsound is for. New sound processor, source audio files, and amp. If you.dont get that, new speakers not worth it. True even up to say, lord of the rings..

    Any game with both backbox and cab speakers benefits from adding a crossover and a true sub in the cab.

    Actually, my classic sterns with their 8-bit sounds I'm a single cab speaker benefit substantially from just a better midrange speaker.

    But pinsound is sweet too.

    #1252 10 months ago

    Anyone know where to get line level audio off a grand lizard/system 11? Would like to add an amp and make those drums thump.

    #1255 10 months ago
    Quoted from DarthPaul:

    What crossover are you using?

    Just a cheap one that cuts to 120 off Amazon. Not sure which one exactly. Very simple circuit, I wouldn't think there's much variation

    #1256 10 months ago
    Quoted from mrbillishere:

    FWIW, I could never solve that equation for any Bly/Wms or Stern Whitestar boardset so I just starting buying these things and because they have pots that let you adjust the resistance they are really easy to work with: amazon.com link »

    Yeah, I was thinking about just using an LOC. Stared at the schematics a bit tonight and couldn't figure out where to tap in either.

    #1260 10 months ago
    Quoted from RatShack:

    Off the volume control.

    Er, isn't that by definition a hot signal post amp going in? Volume control is usually just a variable resistor to drop the voltage I thought....

    #1261 10 months ago

    Good deal, and nice boost

    Kinter K3118-2.1 Bluetooth 5.0 Stereo Digital Receiver Amplifier 2.1 Channel Mini Hi-Fi Class D Amp 30 Watt x 2 Channels + 80 Watt Subwoofer for Home TV DIY Auto Outdoor Passive Speakers Subwoofer https://a.co/d/ddTgaPa

    #1263 10 months ago
    Quoted from Ollulanus:

    Good deal, and nice boost
    Kinter K3118-2.1 Bluetooth 5.0 Stereo Digital Receiver Amplifier 2.1 Channel Mini Hi-Fi Class D Amp 30 Watt x 2 Channels + 80 Watt Subwoofer for Home TV DIY Auto Outdoor Passive Speakers Subwoofer https://a.co/d/ddTgaPa

    Yeah, for $40 with PSU included, this little guy is a no brainier. Dramatic dif on my Zeppelin vs. just upgrading speakers and sub. Ordered a couple more. Gonna try putting it on a couple older pins with an LOC.

    #1265 10 months ago
    Quoted from RatShack:

    You are correct it's a variable resistor. It takes the output of the sound generation section and attenuates it before feeding the power amplifier section, which is fixed gain.
    The signal there is a little hot but it's still around 1V pk-pk. You could hook up a 2nd volume control in parallel and use that to feed your amplifier.

    Actually, I guess I'm not clear about the dif between a LOC and a volume pot for that matter...

    #1267 10 months ago
    Quoted from Big_G:

    I am interested in adding this amp. I read that one could buy the connector from pinsound for $20. Is it this item?
    PINSOUND STEREO 2.1 HARNESS FOR BALLY/WILLIAMS/SEGA/STERN
    If so do I solder the ends to RCA cable and then hook up to amp or is there more to it?
    Thanks for your help

    I haven't used the pinsound one, but the pinnovator basically connects in the backbox and gives you an RCA out, can just plug right into the amp. Grab some speaker wire and wire the amp to your speakers, gtg

    #1269 10 months ago
    Quoted from Big_G:

    Thanks. Newbie question, I assume this bypasses the internal amp in the pinball machine? Also, I only see subwoofer cables on pinnivator’s site. Do you mind sharing the item I need to order? Need 2.1 cable for back box speakers and cabinet sub. Thanks again.

    Sub cable is what you want, it's just a line out, but most use it for an external powered sub. Amp has an RCA in, just plug into that, amp will split for r/l and sub output

    #1272 10 months ago
    Quoted from Mike7599:

    Hey guys, some question about wiring in an amp. I picked up the drop in 4” kicker speakers and the skar mid range cabinet speaker. I have a powered sub that currently is tapped off my spike 2 board with a pinnovator line out adapter. Im torn which amp to get- either the Fosi BT30D or the Kinter discussed earlier in the thread. Question is if I wanted to wire the pin to act as a regular Bluetooth sound system (ie play other music while playing my pin) how would I wire in my external sub? I couldn’t use the pinsound or pinnovator adapter to send line out to the sub because then it would still continue sending sound from the pin when I switched the amp to Bluetooth mode. Right now the options I’m weighing are: 1) tap directly into the cabinet speaker (after the amp) and then convert that to line level to go to my sub, or 2) I noticed if the Fosi BT30D has both passive and powered subwoofer out. Maybe just go from the line out to my sub? But how would this react if I have the cabinet speaker wired into the passive subwoofer out? This also begs another question for the pros. Should I even be wiring a mid range speaker to the sub out on an amp? Will the frequency be too low for the speaker to accept? Thanks in advance!

    I would put a sub in the cab instead of a midrange regardless of the external sub. I really, really enjoy the tactile shake you get from a real sub in the cab, even though sound wise it's superfluous with an external.

    #1274 10 months ago

    Anyone tried these, vs. the slightly cheaper kickers most are using?
    Pair Kicker 47KSC504 KSC504 5.25" 75 Watt 2-Way Car Stereo Speakers KSC50 https://a.co/d/3DoNyzh

    #1301 9 months ago

    Anyone tried this and have news to report? Can't seem to find the JBL Stage 810 I was using in stock anywhere :

    KICKER CompR 8"(20cm) Subwoofer, DVC, 4-ohm, RoHS Compliant https://a.co/d/g2WTg3E

    #1304 9 months ago
    Quoted from davegauth:

    See post #739
    Also you linked to a dual voice coil subwoofer. If you are going dual voice coil make sure you get the 2 ohm and wire it up so the amp see 4 ohms.

    Thanks! Didn't really see a verdict on it though...better, worse, indifferent comp to JBL? Looks like a little more hassle to install.

    8 months later
    #1815 33 days ago
    Quoted from Big_G:You could also just plug the Fosi into the back box outlet. Can’t get more plug and play than that. It would always be powered on, but I unplug my Rush pin after every use. I lost some electronics in a storm and don’t want to risk it.
    I also like the amp close to the coin door for easy to reach adjustments.

    Simplest answer is plug into backbox, plug pin into WiFi enabled surge protector, connect to echo/GHome. Nothing feels as powerful as "Alexa, turn on the Pinball Cave".

    3 weeks later
    #1822 11 days ago

    davegauth - any thoughts on ideal speakers for CLASSICAL music? I just got my Looney Tunes, it's basically a classical music pin (and awesome). Feel like I need something a little dif than the kickers I usually go for. Pretty decent outta the gate, usual spooky lepai amp, but speakers could def be upgraded

    1 week later
    #1824 46 hours ago
    Quoted from Sorokyl:

    I have used the great info on this thread to upgrade my GZ (kicker cs4+jbl 810) and maiden (cs5+jbl 810+ fosi).
    I'm looking to upgrade my Foo and TMNT. These are in my game room in the house where I never turn the volume past 10, and often play down at like 5. I don't want to deal with he hassle of the amp. Just looking to see what people think are decent value cab/backbox speakers are for these 2 games with that consideration. Since I was last here I see a lot of new contenders, including some 5x7 and I see certain games get different recommendations.
    Any help appreciated

    I think kickers and a JBL sub are the best bang for buck you're likely to find for most games. The amp is a bit of a hassle, but really makes a huge difference even if you don't crank it. Not worth it for tmnt imo, but I'd still do an amp for foo. That new PinSound amp is an appealing proposition to me, trading ease of install for a little cash.

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