Since there's a lot of acoustics knowledge in this thread...

If you were to add a subwoofer to a cabinet that doesn't have a cabinet speaker, where would you place it: behind the coinbox area or near the rear of the cab? Any benefit to porting the cab like Data East?

Yikes. I’d be a little concerned with the air escape when that thing starts pumping! Don’t blow out your playfield or glass!

WPC Speaker Upgrade

Recipe for upgrading the speakers on a WPC pin (ST:TNG)

Shopping list

Backbox

WPC Speaker panel with 5 1/4” speaker cut outs $40
https://virtuapin.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=114&zenid=fd9jdjhled6cvdbuq0b0j48nc0

Satin black spray paint for new speaker panel $7
https://smile.amazon.com/Krylon-K02732007-Fusion-Spray-Paint/dp/B07LFYN3ND

Kicker CS Series CSC5 5 1/4” Speakers $77
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07NSCZ27W

8x #8 7/8” screws to mount backbox speakers to panel $10
https://smile.amazon.com/Gardner-Bender-SK-832T-Electricians-Electrical/dp/B00ATODOOQ

Speaker Light Kits Deluxe 5 1/4” Type 13 kit $75
http://speakerlightkits.com/Type-13.html
Note: for WPC games, let Doug (@DugFreez) know you need the "2 blade US power cable”, not one that normally comes with that kit to connect to a Stern SPIKE 2 game

(Optional) Deluxe Sound activated RGB controller (for Speaker Light Kit) $10
http://speakerlightkits.com/Use-of-Deluxe-Sound-Activated-RGB-Controller.html

3M 467MP Clear Adhesive Transfer Tape to attach speaker panel acrylic to new panel $18
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B007Y7CV86

Cabinet

JBL Stage 810 800W Max 8" Subwoofer $70
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08WPJ5PDM

8" Subwoofer Speaker Spacers 1/2” Depth Extender Extending Rings $18
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B076JSZLWF

Power

(optional) Switched triggered power outlet $30
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WV7GMA2

Future Goodies

Pinsound PLUS $390
https://www.pinsound.org/shop/en/44-5506-pinsound-plus-pinball-sound-board.html

Dayton Audio 2.1 100W amp $99
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KX6MN91

Speaker cable, connectors, etc.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0097JLQVC
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B006LW0W5Y

(If you would like a very detailed write up on upgrading sound on WPC systems, please see Joseph “Tony” Dziedzic’s OG article from 2005 - http://www.dziedzic.us/wpc_speaker_replacement.html )

Intro

After successfully and very happily upgrading the sound system on my modern pins, it was time to dive in to upgrading the sound on my daughter’s Star Trek: The Next Generation. This involves upgrading the back box and cabinet speakers, adding some speaker lights from Doug @ SpeakerLightKits.com , and in the future, adding a Pinsound to get full orchestrations.

This write up is capturing my shopping list and an outline of what I went through to get the job done. Please refer to the respective manuals and Tony’s very detailed write up from 2005 for details, or drop me a note with questions. If DIY seems like too much, there are commercial options out there as well.

For my Godzilla LE, I had fantastic results with the Kicker CS5’s and JBL 810 sub, which are favorites here on the DIY sound upgrade thread. These are 5 1/4” speakers and 8” woofer respectively, so require modifications to the stock speaker panel and cabinet to work, and need new wiring and amplification to connect to the game.

I’m neither skilled nor motivated to be sawing large holes in my speaker panel or my cabinet, so I used a simpler approach than what Tony highlighted in his guide. Feel free to mix and match to whatever you have comfort with.

Speaker Panel

The stock speaker panel on TNG (and other WPC games) has a 5 1/4” hole and a 4” hole. Rather than sawing out an enlarged hole for the right driver, I purchased a bare WPC 5 1/4” speaker panel from Virtuapin. Price was right ($40) and came predrilled and with t nuts for the mounting hardware. Awesome, one carpentry problem solved.

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Before moving parts from my stock speaker panel over to the new one, first thing I did was make sure all the t nuts were (mostly) flush with the panel (much easier to hammer them in now vs after the panel is populated). I also spray painted both the front and back sides of the panel black, making sure to paint the inside of the speaker openings and DMD opening.

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Next, it was time to disassemble my stock panel and move parts over to the new panel. This includes the back hooks where the speaker panel hangs from the back box, and the glass channel at the top of the panel. These can be purchased new from Pinball Life or Marco if you prefer to not move them over, but I moved mine. I also removed the DMD to make things easier to work on (take pictures before disassembling anything!)

The tricky things to move over are the acrylic front of the stock speaker panel, and the speaker grilles with the Star Fleet insignia. Tony’s guide goes into great detail on how to do this without damaging the parts. If you’re not comfortable with doing so, I suspect there are reproductions available to purchase new so you can leave your old panel alone. Take your time, be careful, this is the only tricky and scary part of this upgrade.

While you have the acrylic panel removed, this is the perfect time to clean and polish it, I hit mine with #3 Novus in some tough areas, then #2 Novus for the entire panel, then finally #1 Novus to finish it off.

With the front acrylic removed, time to remove the screws that the DMD is mounted to. You will need to install these on your new panel before you attack the acrylic speaker panel face to your new panel. You can use a hammer to knock these out, but note that these screws do have a threaded portion to keep them from spinning when you tighten the bolts for the DMD. What I did is I wrapped the end of the screws with a cloth, and gently used a set of pliers to grip them and rotate counter clockwise while pushing down on the long part of the screw. This popped the screw right out of the front of the speaker panel until the thread area was clear, then I used a hammer to get them the rest of the way out.

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On the new panel, it was a tight fit to get the DMD mounting screws back in. I used a hammer to get them in right up to the thread near the head of the screw. I then used a bolt and washer to tighten it in the rest of the way (press on the head of the bolt while tightening the bolt against the speaker panel on the other side, and the bolt will thread right into the front side of the panel)

Next, I installed the speaker grilles on the panel. Careful to not damage or bend your panel as you do so. I was able to use several of the original staples, and used a staple gun for the rest. I gently (and carefully!) used a hammer to get the staples as flush with the surface of the grilles as I could (don’t ding the grilles with the hammer!). In the photos you can see my original panel on the bottom and new panel on the top. With the grilles moved, you can see the smaller right speaker, which is the reason I need a new panel to use two 5 1/4” speakers

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Following Tony’s guide, use the 3M tape to mount the speaker panel acrylic to your new panel. Take your time, get it right, and sure all the tape is secure and snug. You most definitely don’t want to have to remove the panel and do this over again.

Finally, reattach the panel hooks, glass channel, the foam around the DMD opening, and the DMD. At this point, you will have a complete panel ready for installing the speaker lights and speakers.

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The installation of the Kicker’s and Type 13 kit is very straight forward. Follow the installation instructions for the Type 13 kit and you’re good to go. Make sure you’re not over tightening the speakers, and to make sure the ground ribbon is reattached on the new panel to all the components where it was attached on the original panel (DMD, speakers, etc)

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Your speaker panel is now ready to be wired into the machine.

Note that the original ST:TNG is a mono game. While waiting on my Pinsound, I wired the sound to the left speaker only (on the Kickers, the wide tab is “+” and the narrow tab is “-“). When the Pinsound arrives, it has stereo output and I’ll wire up both speakers for stereo.

(Many thanks to Eric_Manuel for the inspiration to add the speaker lights and for many other ideas from his Star Trek Experience project…Eric posted a video showing speaker lights in hist machine here

)

Advanced Wiring for the Speaker Lit Kits

Also note that the Type 13 kit has its own 5V power supply for the LEDs in the speaker lights. If you’re going to be using the kit with a WPC game, let Doug know that you need a ”2 blade US power cable" to be included with the kit, and not one that normally comes with that kit to connect to a Stern SPIKE 2 game.

Using the regular power cable, you can plug the speaker light kit power supply in to the service outlet, but then it is on even with the machine off.

Rather than have to use the remote that comes with the kit to turn it off and on, or connect the speaker light kit to 5V in the machine (5V is used for the CPU board), I built a power strip (plugged into the service outlet) wired in a relay that turns the power strip on when 12V from the game is active. That way, the game can turn on power from the power strip, and the speaker light kit has the benefit of using its own dedicated power brick, plugged into the switched power strip.

If that sounds scary (and if you’re not sure if it sounds scary or not, probably best to consider it scary), I suggest you pick up a commercial switched outlet:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WV7GMA2

and wire it to an appropriate voltage line on the machine (this commercial unit accepts 3-48VDC, and 12-120VAC as control voltages…basically, when the unit senses a voltage on the control input, it acts like a switch and turns on power to the controlled outlets).

For my homebrew version, I used a 12V controlled relay for my switched outlet, so I used a 12V line from the machine (I use J114-2 on the Power Driver Board, but if you review the schematics, there are 12V lines available to tap into in multiple places). The relay uses a minimum amount of current, so you don’t need to be worried about overwhelming the power circuit on your machine (in the case of ST:TNG, the cannon motors and optos are on the 12V line, so it can be finicky).

Now when you turn on your machine, the relay in the power strip kicks in and you have switched power that you can plug your speaker lights (and other mods, like toppers, etc) into. As a bonus, if you have a bunch of other mods or a DIY topper that needs power, you can now plug them into same switched outlet, and not overload the power supply board in your pin.

Cabinet speaker

My ST:TNG has a smaller woofer inside the cabinet, mounted to a raised area with a smaller hole in the bottom of the cabinet. In Tony’s guide, he walks through the process of drilling out the hole in the bottom of the cabinet so that it is big enough for a 8” woofer. I’m not that brave (and honestly, I try to restrict my uber hifi audiophile crazy to my main music set up, not my pins).

For me, my strategy is to remove the stock subwoofer, pry off the raised platform area to reduce the height (so my new 8” JBL woofer doesn’t run into the underside of my playfield), and use a spacer ring to leave space between the new 8” driver and the cabinet. The idea here is to not have the moving cone on the driver touch the cabinet (it will buzz and sound horrible). Things will sound better with a 8” hole, but again, that is a future optimization for me, that I may never actually get to.

Once you remove the original woofer, you can see the raised area the speaker is mounted on, and the smaller hole that WPC are built with. The raised area is glued and stapled to the cabinet. I removed it by gently using a pry bar from the inside of the opening, then gently prying up. Glue was old enough on my cabinet that it easily separated from the main cabinet.

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After a quick vacuum (and finding some long lost nuts and washers) time to test fit the JBL subwoofer. Note that the JBL is *significantly* larger than the original WPC subwoofer. It is important to test fit and make sure that when the playfield is lowered there aren’t any mechs that are touching the woofer (I had good clearance with my ST:TNG)

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To give the 8” woofer room to move, I used a 1/2” tall 8” woofer spacer. When positioned, the driver is not centered with the smaller hole. In the grad scheme of things, would it be better to have an 8” hole and the driver centered on it? Absolutely. Am I happier doing no carpentry and being OK with off centered mounting? Absolutely^2

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Note that I do not use a speaker grille for the subs in my home machines. I also did not put in a cross over or equalization, since I plan to eventually have these when I put in a Pinsound or potentially a Dayton Audio amp.

So how does it sound?

Definitely an improvement over the stock speakers, even when driven by the stock sound board and amp with no equalization. That being said, these speakers can sounds a LOT better with better amplification, and equalization to blend them together. For better or worse, the built in WPC amp is never going to rock, but with better amplification, these speakers can definitely go there.

My plan is to get a Pinsound board (which has a built in amp and equalization) and that should take it up several notches, esp. with the higher quality stereo orchestrations that are available for ST:TNG. When that gets here, I’ll properly wire up the speakers separately in a 2.1 configuration (speaker cable from the Pinsound to each speaker driver).

Based on what I hear, I may get a Dayton Audio DTA-2.1BT2 100W amp (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KX6MN91). I had fantastic results with this in my Godzilla with the Kickers and JBL sub (wow!). Before going there though, I’d like to hear what the Pinsound is able to do on its own.

NOTE: If you do get the Dayton Audio amp, remember to plug it into the service outlet (not the switched outlet). When this amp loses power, it requires the power button to be physically pressed to turn the amp on. In my Godzilla, I leave the amp on all the time, plugged into the service outlet.

As far as the speaker light kit in TNG, when I sent a video clip to my daughter (it is her game, I’m juicing it up while she’s at college), the mic drop response was “SO DOPE”. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

So Dope!! I love my STTNG : ) Thanks for this write up!

Here’s what I’ve found about this config so far (5.25 kickers backbox, stock cab speaker, Polk external sub). The eq setting posted earlier in the thread for the back box speakers sounds good. As for the stock cab speaker, I tried numerous eq adjustments, and in combination with adjusting eqs for the backbox, but it just seems to add mud no matter what I do and even if it was faded down quite a bit. I put fade to 30 to kill the cab speaker. And I set the Polk’s low pass filter to about 120 (dialed back from the max of 150 where it was just too boomy). In summary, backbox eq to Dave’s earlier post, cab off, sub low pass 120. Seems to provide good clean separation and there is still a nice boom in the low end. The music sounds great. Voices clear as possible I think. In general with the sound on this pin, the music all sounds fantastic, but often the call outs are futzy and muddled. I think it’s all the effects they added to make them sound like tinny radio broadcasts. Not the best for hearability. When Godzilla multiball starts it’s a sonic mess and I’m not sure any adjustments will help.

I installed my Wuzhi amp and this thing is screaming loud and I'm happy with the sound quality overall. I'll probably add a spacer to the 8"jbl eventually and possibly a passive eq since when using the bluetooth mode the built in Stern is bypassed. I'm definitely going to look into anti rattle tape or possibly Dynomat that I had great results with in an automobile.

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Stern speaker graveyard. Kicker is definitely the way to go!

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I made an update to my Speaker adapters to allow for more clearance from the molding at the side of the backbox. Basically the sides are now flat spotted and I offset the mounting holes for the adapter to one side a bit. What this does is mount the speaker a little closer to the LCD. This will allow for more clearance from the angle molding at the edge of the backbox and hopefully allow for bigger speakers and various speaker lighting mods to fit better.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5182150

I will also remind everyone that plans on putting in speaker lights that you can get the authentic metal 5.25 speaker plates just like the LEs have for half price ($25) when combined with a purchase at speakerlightkits. I ALWAYS buy these rather than use my own adapters when I plan on putting lights in. It's simply a cleaner install and the price is right.

https://www.speakerlightkits.com/5.25-SPIKE-2-Speaker-Plates.html
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so i'd like to upgrade the speakers in my Godzilla LE. i was thinking the kickers were best choice (CSC5) but they don't seem to sell that model in Australia (https://www.kicker.com.au/product-category/car-audio/car-audio-speakers/car-audio-speakers-cs/). The closest thing seems to be the 46CSC54 – 5.25″ (130mm) 75 Watts RMS 2-way (https://www.kicker.com.au/product/46csc54-5-25-130mm-75-watts-rms-2-way/) - i think maybe they are the same model with different numbers. Does anyone know? (i'm no expert when it comes to audio and don't want to mistakenly buy the wrong thing)....

They are one in the same.

awesome - thanks @finman2000, ordering now!

Upgraded my Munsters premium with the Kicker 5.25 and lighting kit from Doug

http://www.speakerlightkits.com/5.25-SPIKE-2-Speaker-Plates.html

No other changes (yet) but happy with the speakers and lighting. Speaker noticeable better, callouts clearer. I change from 8 to 4 ohm but didnt like it so changed it back for now. I will try again with the EQ. Settings recommended earlier in the thread...

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Thanks for all the content davegauth! I’ve been trying to read through everything but hard to know some of the lingo for a newbie.

A few newbie questions:
1. What is the difference between the pinsound CN5 adapter ($20) and the Pinnovators sub adapter ($35)?
2. Are those $390 pinsound boards just another amp like the ones tested here?
3. If I just went for external speakers+sub, would an older stereo system suffice or is it still worth getting one of these tested amps before sending the signal out to the stereo? (Related, any issues with me running multiple pins into the same external stereo?)

Thanks for any thoughts!

I have an LE. I thought the Munster premiums and LE had upgraded sound system. You still hear major improvement with the Kicker? Enough to recommend doing it?

The premium has the four inch speakers. It is just the LE had the "high-definition speaker system with 3-channel equalizer". This includes the 5.25" speakers (Kenwood's I believe).

Since the premium has the cheap 4 inch speakers, going with the 5.25" Kicker's is a big improvement. @davegauth's speaker comparison in this thread ranks the Kickers pretty high (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/improving-sound-quality-the-diy-route/page/4#post-6782071). I could have went with 4" Kicker's but why do that when for just a little more, get the 5.25".

For you, I doubt you would get much difference swapping out your 5.25" for the Kickers. However, in terms of rankings by davegauth (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/improving-sound-quality-the-diy-route/page/6#post-6812899), the Kenwoods are at the bottom and Kickers and Alpine are at the top. Maybe someone else has done this swap and has an opinion?

Thanks! A very easy question: when connecting an amp back to the output, do I just snip the CN1 and CN4 connectors and plug those wires into the amp outs? Or is there a cleaner/reversible way? (T-connector maybe?)

EDIT: After re-reading this post(https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/improving-sound-quality-the-diy-route/page/8#post-6841366) I see you suggested running new wiring through the machine - I get it now. Am still tempted to just T-tap in to existing wiring but don't know how bad using their thin stock wiring would be -- sounds like it degrades quality?

In any case, still awaiting a long international shipment from France on that Pinsound adapter before I can wire in this Fosi.

IMG_0814 (resized).jpg

Would this Amplifier be good, great not at all, to use with the Kenwood KFC 1366S and the JBL 810 sub.

Kenwood KFC-1366S 250 Watt 5.25-Inch Coaxial 2 Way Car Audio Speaker (1 Pair) https://a.co/d/aqnFGcs

JBL Stage 810 800W Max 8" Stage Series Single 4 ohm Car Audio Subwoofer Speaker Bundled with Alphasonik Earbuds https://a.co/d/5WpEeWC

Kinter K3118-2.1 Bluetooth 5.0 Stereo Digital Receiver Amplifier 2.1 Channel Mini Hi-Fi Class D Amp 30 Watt x 2 Channels + 80 Watt Subwoofer for Home TV DIY Auto Outdoor Passive Speakers Subwoofer.
https://a.co/d/6vknaa4

I'm getting ready to do my 1st sound improvement. Thanks to you and all who have added useful information.. I'm on page 5 and plan on reading it all.

Just started reading this DIY forum this week. I stop here to answer it so if it's already been addressed, my bad. I purchased a 2007 Dale Jr three weeks ago and started my speaker upgrade. It too has a wooden panel. So yes it can be done. See pics I replaced the clear acrylic with Red. Not a fan of the orange color from the 2007 line up. Probably not going to add a amplifier in this pin yet. I did replaced the 15 year old cabinet speaker and it did have a rip in paper cone.. ok back to reading so I can get my Aerosmith, Metallica and other pins upgraded after I get some knowledge.

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I just grabbed one of amps as well to test it out as a cheaper option than the Fosi. However, it seems like once you get a power supply to go with it (I got: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0131VAEEG), you are almost back at the Fosi price range. What power supply are you using? Is cost the only potential advantage of this cheap amp over something like an $80 Fosi?

Get a pin2dmd screen and replace that energy eatinng plasma. You can run the pin2dmd (led) in any colour you want.

Plus the game runs much quiet when in attract mode. No more plasma “fizzzzzz”.

I make my own pin2dmd for all my games.

This is the power supply I'm using. https://www.amazon.com/5-6-5A-100V-240V-Transformer-Switching-Supply/dp/B074CJ8GNP

For the power supply, I just used the power supply that comes with the amp along with a simple Iot Relay to turn it on and off with the game:

https://www.amazon.com/Iot-Relay-Enclosed-High-Power-Raspberry/dp/B00WV7GMA2

This allows the amp to plug directly into an a/c power outlet and provides additional outlet(s) for other mods. For instance, it would be easy as can be to plug in a small fan and point it at the flipper coils to keep them from over heating. Or plug in a power supply or USB power supply to power any number of mods without taxing the Stern boards at all.

The one lesson I quickly learned was to connect the Iot Relay 12v input to the 12v source in the backbox rather than connecting it to the coin door board. The 12v from the coin door goes off and on when you open the coin door unless you change the settings in the menu. Better to use the backbox power node as the trigger to turn the amp on and off. The 12v supplied to the Iot Relay is simply used as a signal to turn the power on and off and doesn't load down the Stern power supply AT ALL.

Bass-heads: Any trick to anti-rattle tape? Just stick it where needed?

Put a couple strips of painters tape at the top of the glass where it was rattling, there's a spot on the side that's noisy as well.

Should I be looking into replacing the glass guides under the rails?

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Just some black electrical tape on the edges of the glass worked for me. This is in a room with 2x18s so I had lots of rattles to sort.

I got both the Kicker 4s (GZ) and the 5.25s (DP). With the 4s it seemed like 8/8 sounded better to me than 4/8, but I don’t understand the science of it— the box says 4 Ohm, but does that just not matter?

I’m currently using a more midrange cab speaker, if that matters, but a JBL sub just arrived so I might swap in.

I just read all 19 pages! I have a LZ premium. I am not interested in adding an amp. My plan is to buy the kicker CS5 and new speaker plates from pinballlife. What is the best recommendation for the cabinet speaker? I see some have a mid range speaker like a Skar while others went with a sun like a JBL 8 inch for the cabinet. Thoughts?

Thanks
Mike

Pinball life has a $99 kit that includes the kenwood 5.25" speakers, the plates, and a speaker light kit. I know many didn't rate the kenwoods as high as others, but its a pretty solid deal for the kit.

https://www.pinballlife.com/rgb-led-round-speaker-upgrade-and-light-kit-for-most-stern-spike-2-pro-premium-machines.html
Or for 60 bucks you can get the kit without speakers. So pretty much lights on top of the plates for only 10 bucks extra.

https://www.pinballlife.com/rgb-led-speaker-light-kit-for-stern-spike-2-machines-copy.html

I have the 99 dollar kit coming. I am not sure if I will put it in Godzilla or Deadpool yet though.

That is a great price for a quick all in one solution.

Thanks for all that messaged me but this kit has now been sold to Rdoyle1978. (To clarify it did not include the speakers nor the plates.)

Yeah just use the 8, it sounds definitely better.. the same is true on AVR receivers I've got a Yamaha aventage 3080... And even the audio file YouTube channels say they run it at 8 ohms even if your speakers are four or six ohms I think it has more to do with the digital processing than the actual power output...

To my ear 8 sound great and there's no way I'd be turning them up past 16 most of the time in my room anyways... You'd have to be cranking them at full blast to really do any serious great damage to the amp and I think you go deaf before the machine would break

I know Pinwoofer says to use the 8 ohm setting as well

So in this setup, do you set the balance fader to full Backbox speakers since you are now driving the cabinet speaker from just the L+R output?

thanks, yes when playing around with it I realized anything 0 or greater was the same effect.
Follow-up: How would you suggest changing the suggested EQ curve since the cab levels don’t apply? I’m still set at the suggested ones from pre-amp days. Apologies if I missed this in the thread, I’ve sifted through all pages a few times.

I think that the amp chips on my Iron Maiden are bad because I hear crackling sound when there no audio and during gameplay sometimes the sound is completely gone. If I would use the pinsound line out cable and use an external amplifier would that fix my issue? In other words will that setup completely bypass the amp chips on my CPU board?

I think the pinsound sits between the stern dsp and the stern amp, so you’d be able to skip the onboard amp, which may be the problem. Worth trying!

Thanks I’ll give it a try and will report back.

Is it a known issue that the sound chips on the Spike 2 cpu boards are failing? Could the DSP also fail and what would be the symptoms when the DSP would fail vs the amp chips?

Many thanks for your reply, I’ll check my EQ settings.

I’ve ordered the adapter & amp and will report back if all my sound issues are gone.

EQ questions!

I’ve got Deadpool set up with the Kicker 5.25s, the Skar FSX8-8, the Fosi 2.1 amp, and an external cheap sub (using both pinsound and pinnovator adapters).
I’m clueless about how to properly balance the EQ between the amp knobs and the backbox EQ, which I think I currently just turned off.

I can definitely hear quality differences but just don’t know the right steps/order to tweak, nor the audio science well enough to theorize where the cutoffs should be (or what a good curve looks like).

Is there a great website that talks through the basics well enough for newbie tinkering?

Or can someone share recommended EQ + amp-dial photo setup as a starting point, for me to tweak?

(Random side question: does the sub out on the Pinsound adapter act identically to the pinnovator sub adapter? They hook in at different spots, but wonder if I could harvest the pinnovator adapter for another machine)

Separately, I also have a GZ with stock amp, Kicker 4s, JBL 810, and external sub, and am using the EQ guidance seen earlier in this thread. That sounds pretty good, but even there I wonder if I should somehow cut off low freqs to the cab sub since I have the external woofer? (No idea what numbers to do so so or how to curve it out)

Did the PBL speaker upgrade with the light kit. So Kenwood backbox and then added the Skar cabinet. Nice improvement. Just picked up two pairs of the kickers of ebay for 86 shipped. So I will see which games those go in. One set probably in Deadpool. Then may swap out the Godzilla speakers and put the Kenwood's in my IJ. I am planning to swap out that speaker panel with one that does 5.25 speakers along with the 3 jackpot light cutouts.

Just found this, on Amazon and it cost less than a 50' roll they have for sale.
14AWG Speaker Wire, https://a.co/d/fKsxCIS

Got to head to ebay now and find the speaker two pair kickers that DudeRegular found

Ok, so I have been playing pretty much just Godzilla with the upgrades mentioned previously and my Rick and Morty which has the amp and speakers, etc. Was kinda wondering just how much of an improvement the upgrades were... Went to play Deadpool tonight with the stock sound and yep, sounds way different. It will be getting some upgrades now soon as well. Its crazy just how fast I got accustomed to the upgrades on Godzilla.

Well it was just a matter of time before someone put a box around the subwoofer. This build it for the JBL STAGE 810
3D Printed port, pipe length a 5.8" long and inter diameter 1.97". Get the Sub Box for the JBL Stage 810 here: https://subbox.pro/en/b/DQ19arlvM#

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@Spiderpin... Anxious to hear you opinion on this boxed application.

Let me say that I'm late to this topic.

Just start and read all post a few weeks ago. I ordered and received the Amplifier and subwoofer after seeing davegauth recommendations.
I already had the 5.25 Rockford Fosgate in my Aerosmith. So this is the pin that received the update.

Only played one song (Bluetooth) I had to feel the air coming from the port. Check that box. Then I played one game (with glass off) still didn't achieve high score before I had to go to work.

Tomorrow I'll mount box to cabinet and do the crossover after I read what I need to do. As of now I do hear Big Better Sound coming out of my Pinball/Jukebox.

Thanks davegauth

I'll do my best, I wasn't going to add box until after listening to pin at least a week. So I could hear if there would be a different. But I built the box before the Amplifier arrived. And then the gotta have it now kick in. I purchased two of everything (Amplifier/Subwoofer) so maybe I'll do the other pin boxless. Then I can do a same song Bluetooth side by side comparison.