never understood this mentality. to me saying that you're glad you aren't good at pinball because getting to a wizard mode would take the fun out of the game is like saying you're glad you're bad at reading because you'll never have to deal with the ending of a book taking the fun out of the book. iv'e played a lot of pinball, and the funnest moments are when you execute a technique you have been practicing, see a new feature of the game you previously haven't, or getting a high score. the games were built to be played, that some people have no interest in playing longer or better seriously baffles me. to each their own i guess.

I'm not very good at all, but I've been to the end of almost every game I've ever owned that had one, save TSPP and Metallica. Every once in a while, you just grab that perfect game and can hit everything, you know?

EM guys don't need no stinking "code".

I think I remember an earlier WOZ video that is as close to this as it gets.

Usually while the glass is off................................

I would say I'm a terrible player! When we have family over who don't play, after showing them simple things like just to cradle the ball, they're almost as good as I am LOL!

Ever heard the term "Ignorance is bliss"? Many people are satisfied being ignorant that there is more available and they don't care to investigate further. Do you know anyone who cooks at a level less than a five star gourmet chef and enjoys cooking? Do you enjoy eating meals that aren't the best possible ingredients? Know any content creators (*cough* podcasters) who use anything less than a top of the line studio to record?

I think everyone reaches a level that's good enough. Even if you constantly strive to improve you'll reach a point of diminishing returns. That barrier could be practice time, money to buy better equipment, or something else. But most people don't quit when they reach that point. They enjoy being that good and sometimes don't care about getting better.

Oh, but I don't want to be worse than I am. Quite the opposite, I want to become better. And that state of always wanting to improve myself, combined with knowing that by improving I can see more of these games and their stories, is a nice place to be. If I was good enough to reach every wizard mode in every game, I'm sure I would find other goals for myself, like winning every single Circuit event in a given year or something ridiculous like that. But to me, right now, I really enjoy having games' depth and challenges as a part of my pinball journey. Doesn't mean I don't want to improve.

I don't intentionally not improve, but it just happens. I only own two pins right now, Metallica and GnR, and my best scores on those games occurred within a month of them coming in. I think I have owned GnR for 4 years, and Metallica for 3. I enjoy the light shows more than trying to perfect the shots. For a while, I could hit the ramps on Metallica most of the time, but I brick them regularly now.

I should also point out that if I am playing a lot, I probably play 10 games in a week. I probably should practice some shots, but I don't really feel like doing that.

I played AFMr at pinagogo and loved it. The display, lights, and sounds were incredible. Most of the people I heard talking about it were bitching about those same things that I liked the most. to them, the lights were a distraction to making shots. To me, they made the experience better.

I never had a chance to play AFM because when there was one at a show, the lines were too long.

I visited the pinball museum at Asbury Park, NJ a few years ago and got on an AFM. Man, was I HOT! Each ball lasted forever, I hit all the ramps and loops, I had multiballs, extra balls, jackpots and super this and that. The carpal tunnel in my wrists was killing me but I kept playing. Finally my last ball drained. They have a sign on top of each game showing high scores for men and women, adults, juniors and children. I knew that I hadn't beaten the men's high score, but I was sure that I had posted a strong score.

I beat the high score for Girls under 12.

That was obviously a while ago. The 12 year olds are winning tournaments now. lol

Go to you tube and watch Hook being played at papa. BOOOOOOORING!

Yay! A good player can bash a ramp consistently and play like a robot, how special. There is not much, if any fun in that (hell the video is boring to watch). Get a regular or poor player on that game and it is a blast! Instead of going for just the safe shots worth the most points, one gets to have more fun just experiencing the game. I can see where there is a bit of a rush for a normal player actually hitting the ramp to just barely get the 3 million shot. Same for, say Cyclone, the spook house is a risky shot, good players will likely skip it. But it is more fun to get the wheel spinning on the back glass. Hopefully that illustrates the point.

Hence, why Hook is a really crappy game! A good/great game will force an experienced tournament player to play most if not all of the playfield and not just loop the same shot over and over. Ever wonder why Hook is rarely used in tournaments? Yes, it's BORING!

No, stop.....no one plays Hook ever.

I've enjoyed the Hook much more than that damn GB Prem that was shown the door last month. Lotr you are kind of illustrating my point. I don't think fair/sucky players care as much about a good/great game with perfectly balanced rules, much less tournement play. If you are good/excellent at pinball, weak/poor games will be quickly exposed, exploited and boring to play. An average Joe won't notice and just enjoy the game. Hence being happy with not being a good player.

if only i could reverse the door handle to the basement so i could lock it and be left alone to stink playing pinball and enjoying my beverages

Well yeah but that still doesn't mean anything

Hey, I'll agree with you there. Hook is probably more fun to play than any rendition of GB.

Im glad your not a good player also,because if you were you would be better than me.

Same here with MET. When I first started playing I could flow the ramps back and forth 10X in a row all day long. Now I'm at one combo and brick, one combo and brick. My average games are around 25 to 35 mil. My great games are any over 100 mil with high of 170 mil.

Here's my score from my league for 1.5 seasons. Just started last season so yeah I'm new at this league stuff. This should tell you how crappy of a player I am but I still have fun.

Machine Average Score Highest Score Lowest Score Plays
AC/DC 15,933,240 41,589,090 4,227,460 8
Game of Thrones 65,715,590 422,270,480 7,003,170 15
GhostBusters Pro 22,684,870 70,401,020 1,802,840 15
Kiss Pro 17,223,610 41,929,470 5,065,110 7
Star Trek Pro 34,027,700 110,824,570 2,546,400 7
Twilight Zone 43,643,560 128,364,570 8,673,130 8

Says the guy with the league high score on Star Trek.

Don't let arcademojo kid you, he's a lot better than he thinks he is and doesn't give himself enough credit.

Says the guy who has his initials up for grand champion that is almost triple that score. I think I get the shit luck and play a good game when everyone else plays a bad game I'm playing against.

My good games are 25 to 35 million. lol

It seems like a play for quite a while on those games, but the score just doesn't go up much. I only have one score over 100 million, and that got erased 2 updates ago. lol

Don't worry, I have plenty of days where I play 5 games and can't break 10 mil. My good games over 100mil are very few and far apart.

I used to just flip randomly for the longest time and had fun until a buddy that collects would give me tips while I was playing his machines. I'd hit a shot and then he'd say, "good, now hit this one that's flashing to...........". It clicked then that there was so much I wasn't aware of. I enjoy it so much more now and got hooked into getting my own to play. Part of the enjoyment in owning is also shopping and fixing and the things that only other owners would understand. The only negative for me is that now I could drain and be frustrated that I was one shot away from something but in the pre-knowing days I would've had no idea.

I couldn't handle just hitting the same shots over and over like that Hook video. My Black Rose has the whirlpool shot that can be hit over and over but after I build it to the max I move on. I give myself goals to hit like in Pinball Arcade and I am satisfied if I get them regardless of points. That's how I play. Sometimes the goal is to get to enter my initials but that gets harder over time.

I think you need to come down to north canton, and play pinball with me. I am in the same boat... I don't think I have ever seen a wizard mode on ANY of my pins!!

being a computer weenie, if I could program pinball machines, I would sooooooooooo do this... LOL

... combined posts ...

I'm not sure i would even make being an average player but i enjoy playing and owning pinballs. Like someone else said unfinished code doesnt stop me from enjoying most games!

I don't think you are as bad as you think you are. Here are our league stats on some of the same games. We've been doing three seasons a year for about 8 years and have all skill levels from near pro to beginner.

league avg 2 (resized).JPG

league avg (resized).JPG

Same here. I had one of those games on ST not long ago. Never made it to the 2nd wizard more in the 3 years I owned it. I fired up a game one night after not playing it for a while and had one of those games where the stars align. Not only did I make it to the 2nd wizard but got fairly close to the third. Final score was nuts. After that, pretty much every game I struggle to even make it to the first wizard mode. I get frustrated when I play bad. I have no idea how I can play so well one game and so bad on the next.

One thing people seem to forget is that skill will plateau, no matter how much you practice. Some people are just better at things than others - it's why we have Olympics.

I've been playing, fairly competitively, for decades but my skills reached a certain level and never really got much better, while people I see at league are 100x better than I am and they only just started.

So saying "play better" isn't always the answer!

True but listen to some of these sad bastards jesus christ they have to get a little better.

There's a difference between skill and how you choose to play a game. Most of those who complain about games are competitive players who have to learn the one or two ways to get a high score for tournament play. In many cases, that way isn't much fun and doesn't explore the entire game.

That's very different from someone with skill who wants to try and beat the game vs. spam a few shots for points. There are players who simply can't get their brains out of 'spam for points' vs. explore the game. Those are the players who start to lose enjoyment in most games the fastest IMHO.

When you know what a game has to offer, you can choose to play it for fun in many different ways regardless of the score involved.

There's also a difference between skill and learning the game, the modes and the big point shots. This is where I lack to the "I suck at pinball" part. My skill is average but I have no clue what's going on in most games. With my classic old school games you can learn the game in a few balls. These modern games I can't learn to save my ass. Too damn many rules and modes for me to remember. I just shoot what ever is lit.

After about 3 years, I finally made it over 100 million again. My all time best is now 130 million. I saw a lot of modes, and failed miserably at all of them, but it was a lot of fun.

Not to derail, but TSPP is brilliant exactly because it does NOT have this problem with depth. It is both deep and wide.

You can play to start and complete every mode in a single ball to light up every shot to be worth over 7M each (as long as you keep the clock going). This challenge is always available immediately at the start of each ball, and is extremely difficult to achieve. And as these modes stack, you can conceivably achieve it with about 14 shots to get all modes running, and then shots can serve double duty to complete modes.

And as you play this singular "immediately available" path to lighting up the machine , you can also start your depth quest, seeing all the additional features.

A deep game like Hobbit, yeah totally a 30 min chore to get back to where you want to be after a good game. But not so with TSPP.