I owned 20 pins for 20 year before I even knew there were "wizard modes" to get to. Even then I did not really want to get to them since it would make me feel like I was done with the pin. I liked a big collection to actually mix it up and not get too good at a pin so it would not get boring. But of course this was before I even know about other collectors and "competition" playing.

It was so much simpler when the world was smaller. And cheaper. Then a bunch of A-holes came in and drove up the prices without even bothering to play. Now they want WOW depth like a video game.

Boom, derail. (all good just having fun)

Absolutely, much, much easier to please you and I than the pros, probably isn't a machine out there that we wouldn't like.

I have never been really good. Every time I think I have an awesome score it turns out it was just a drop in the bucket.

So very true.

Yes prime example are players on got's I try to keep up with thread I'm totally lost. When I play the got's I feel fortunate to get to black water multi ball.

Agree. I am an average player. I rarely get to any of the wizard modes. And I never have any issues with code or code completion because I’m too busy having fun playing the game.

Marc

I had a family bbq on Sunday, and I let everyone compete against eachother for a small pot. As I watched them play, I could tell they all really had no clue what they were doing on any of my machines, and just had fun flipping the ball around and having some things only becoming obvious to them after several plays.

It was a little frustrating to watch, but at the same time I felt like I missed a time when every game felt new and special, and I hadn't developed a pinball skill set that includes death saves.

The next day I played Maverick, beat it for the first time and it felt amazing, because the game had been kicking my ass (Hey, Maverick is pretty tough, and really a fun pin I think and I only recently discovered this game)

So in short, you do discover and are able to exploit undeveloped code if you're good at pinball (Wheel of Fortune comes to mind)

or...you're able to reap the rewards and feel a sense of accomplishment that not everyone can pull off with very polished code (Metallica)

So very true. I have played thousands of games in the past four years, and have never made a 'Wizard Mode'. Wouldn't even know what they are if not for reading about them. No shame. Enjoy playing, and especially enjoy the wonderful people I've met through the hobby & Pinside.

I could play better....but why bother?.....more fun, and proud to suck at Pinball!

Yeah, I really like having something to shoot for. Figuratively speaking, not only literally. Have had LOTR for 10+ years; never reached Valinor, and only very rarely reach TABA. I have managed to conquer pretty hard-to-get wizard modes on a few other pins, for example I have gotten Vacation Jackpot on White Water and reached and won the Final Battle on The Shadow. I have later sold those two pins, and having seen everything the games had to offer rule-wise was part of why I could let them go.

relieved to hear I'm not the only one. When I watch good players in YouTube it seems like the ball almost never goes into the slingshots and I ask myself how the heck do they do that.

I half agree, I play purely for fun and rarely have any interest in competitive play I just love flipping and having a blast while doing so. And I have rarely seen everything any of my past or presents games have to offer, keeps them fresh for me knowing I still have more to see and do.

But I don't think a game should have unfinished code there are a lot of better players out there than me and for them deeper code benefits them, plus it makes it more fun while watching on a multiplyer game seeing things I haven't before and some of the cool things I have to work towards seeing myself.

Wizard modes? codes? Heck I just shoot at what ever lane is lit. Been playing GOT and GB in my league for a while now. Have no clue what's going on in GB and just learned what BW multi ball is.

Hear hear!
I just flail around and shoot at the flashy blinky things
All good fun.

Glad I'm not the only one! I still haven't completed "easy" games like Scared Stiff, have only done 3 cases on Who Dunnit, have yet to conquer mars on Attack From Mars, heck haven't even hit the billion shot yet on Bride of Pinbot. Still have a blast playing them all though so whatever.

Same can be said with stern star trek , not even achieved enterprise amok yet though I have gotten to the wizard mode on avatar which is brutal. Just one of those things.

Aaah - a thread for the rest of us - I like!

I suspect this could by why I don't swap out my games very often... I don't get bored because I haven't mastered them. Certainly it at least contributes.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or for my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit

I LOVE deep rules. Make them well written rules, and the game can be a winner because it can be available to all levels of players. When a game is fun to shoot for a novice, but also has achievable goals for mid level players, and then wizard modes for great players, it's just awesome.

It's an art form to build this correctly. I'm never going to get to Valinor on my LOTR, but I keep trying to put it together. I can do almost everything to get there, but not all in one game. And I refuse to setup the game ultra easy to do it. But I think if Valinor wasn't there, I'd lose a bit of interest. Because right now as I plunge the first ball I think "maybe this is the game I get there".

if you watch those youtube videos sometimes they death save or bang back. I've sadly never gotten either of those right, a lot harder then it looks. I'm getting pretty close on GOT, I still don't really understand all this multiplyer business though. I've only gotten to the wizard mode in two easier pin TOM and CP, not sure what the wizard mode in IM is but I did get the do or die hurry up. when people talk about new code, I usually can't tell the difference myself without looking it up. I Just assume its better because the pro's say it is

ahhh... it used to be a crappy game and now it a great game, got it.

Can you imagine if "unfinished code" meant that you'd be playing an awesome game, only one shot from wizard mode, and everything goes dark and dead and the screen reads, "Code Unfinished."?

That would be some funny shit right there...except for the guy who's playing.

But isn't that the point of really deep code? I mean imagine trying to get to the 5 Year Mission if you owned a Star Trek. If you're saying you rarely reach the wizard mode on games, then wouldn't it take potentially years to see the end of this game?

It should take 5 years to be exact.....

I guess I'm a pretty good player, especially considering my age, but there are times I almost wish I wasn't. Case in point, I qualified for the A division in a tournament a couple weeks ago, getting my hopes up that maybe just once my luck would hold out long enough to garner myself a trophy (best to date was 4th) but sure enough the ball became an outlane-seeking missle in round one of the finals. Very frustrating! It's like the universe is trying to tell me I have more important things to do than to get a swelled head and start entering all the competitions I could!

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Watch the intro to Frog Frenzy on Ripley's Believe It or Not! . Scared Stiff does something similar.

+1, as most of my friends coming/playing home did not just understand 1% of what i'm criticizing in the code

(petit coucou amical à Fred lol)

I'm not very good at all but I'm better than the people allow over to my house to play. That way, I can maintain all the high scores.

So, if you're any good at pinball, you are NOT invited to my house!

I might need to steal this idea and hide it somewhere in Voltron... : P

There are two wizard modes in IM, Do or Die and Jericho. Do or Die is the harder one to get to but easier to complete.

I watched a really good player play a machine once. He trapped and cradled almost every ball. The ball was being held longer than it was in play. Yeah, he was really good, but it turned what I thought was a great pin into a bore. If that's what it takes to become a "pro", I thought, no thanks...

Hell I thought TABA and destroy the ring were wizard modes on LOTR. Owned the game for 3 years and only got to taba twice and destroy the ring twice.

Most of us decent pinball players should feel sorry for those expert players who are so good that they get bored with any game that doesn't have deep enough rules to hold their interest. It's sad they can't enjoy games that I consider some of the best ever made, like Monster Bash and Scared Stiff and Creature from the Black Lagoon.

I don't understand how pinball collectors aren't getting better at pinball through pure exposure. I had a big arcade game collection and a single pinball machine for years. Over time, as many of us do, I transitioned to a bigger pinball and a smaller arcade machine collection. But over the time period, I got WAY better at pinball. Just playing them makes you better at ball control and accuracy. You understand the common tropes better (lock X number of balls to qualify multiball, complete modes to advance to wizard modes, etc.) the more machines you're exposed to. Why wouldn't you want more out of your machines once you start to understand that?

Collecting pinball machines and having no desire to improve is like buying tons of fishing equipment and still only throwing worms on a hook into a community pond full of stocked fish. You're seriously limiting yourself from how many more aspects the hobby has to offer you.

Pinball is MUCH more satisfying when you're a better player. Try to improve your skills. There are so many games out there that it's really no big deal that stinker games (South Park, Jokerz, NFL, etc.) become overly simplistic to enjoy. Just move on from them and seek a better challenge.

Let them have their thread.

BUT I AM CONFUSED! I don't think I can think of one thing in life that I would enjoy more if I was worse at it. I would find no joy in clanking every shot I took in basketball or by gutter balling everything in bowling. I genuinely want to know what's going on here.

I'm not that good and would never join a tournament, I just like to relax and have fun. It's like a couple beers at the pub type of thing to me. That being said I am a content tourist, I make sure I see everything a pin has to offer. If I have to play with extra balls or lower the difficulty I do it. Never see everything it has to offer seems like a waste of money to me.

You get better at anything through regular practice. I was never in more than one bowling league at a time (strictly with friends or coworkers) and averaged 181.5 in the third and final league I was in years ago. My buddy and I used to play foosball in some local bars several nights a week and after a while won a couple local tournaments. I've gotten better by playing for years and consider myself a decent pinball player. These days I play outside with my two German shepherds more than I play pinball by myself indoors. I'm good enough to enjoy trying for Lost in the Zone and Rule the Universe when I play but not good enough to make it every time. But I never want to be so good at pinball that playing Monster Bash or Big Bang Bar bores me.

I will say that bowling and pinball are different from foosball in one major way. In bowling and pinball I try to score my best. If I have a great game but my buddy has an even better game it doesn't bother me a bit. In foosball you're not going for a high score, you just play to beat the other team.

That's the way you have to play GOT to get anywhere...total ball control. You flail, you die. Love the game, but I'm really divided on how to play it. Total control and more boredom, or flail away and deal with greater suckage?

I also won't enter any tournaments. I did one; couldn't believe what douchebags some guys were whenever they drained. Huge temper tantrums and they took it WAY too seriously, IMO. Crack open a beer and let's play some pinball. F the score...

I hear what they are saying a little differently. Not so much that they don't want to improve but that by not being a pro, games with "incomplete code" or "shallow rulesets" are still enjoyable for them.

Won't enter tournaments but this is my second season in a league. I'm just good enough to hang out in the bottom A-players list. But in reality I'm no where close to the top 3 A players. Not even in the same zip code.

Yeah I've been bowling off & on my entire life but never got above a cetain(T) level..doesn't mean it isn't fun.

No need to feel sorry, and I'm not trying to sound dickish - I had fun with scared stiff - stripped it down, polished every piece, rebuilt flippers, led'd the whole thing - the game was cc and I loved owning it for the 3 or 4 months we had it. Problem was that both me and my 12yr old daughter got tired of it since it was so simple - some folks just need more of a challenge.

You can make games with simpler rules difficult to play as both can be mutually exclusive. You can open (or remove) the outlane posts, set crate and coffin to hard (or extra hard), tighten the tilt, turn off ball saves and extra balls.

I find the rules for most EMs simple and easy to follow. Problem is trying to keep the ball in play long enough to do much. Getting so close to something of an epic game but never quite there is the hook to keep you coming back.

Games like TSPP are such a chore at times that after 30 minutes I know to get to this point again in the next game I'll have to play another 30 minutes.

Remember the After Patz party, when that guy was so goddamn close to breaking the high score on Subway I think it was?
That's exactly the beauty of EMs. So simple, so hard. He had the game of his life on that thing and came up just sooo short.

I wish you would enter more events and take them a bit more serious. I can see you really like it and are very good. I also like hanging w you. With a bit more practice in those finals and playoffs and you will get that trophy one day!

Ever notice very few folks mention a pin is just "fun" to play. It's true.

After playing for years I think I am at a sweet spot of pinball where I can "hang" playing tough games on my IM, but I am not spending 20+ minutes minimum every time I hit start on LOTR. I am good,but not to good. I have good games, some great games that I walk away from really satisfied and so so games that make me hit start one more time. If I get better great, but I don't care if I stay like I am now. That would be unacceptable for some, but I am ok with it. I am having fun.

This is for you my friend ..... Everyone deserves a Trophy !!!

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