I don't get it....if you played the game and enjoyed it who gives a shit what someone else says about the game? The fact that he had that much of an influence on you is the problem....maybe u should focus on your own decision process

I just heard the one recently aboot "Sliding in ona a shrimp sandwhich."
I like it.

It's ultimately a personal preference but I think GB did the best job with theme integration. The game was definitely frustrating but it had some really memorable moments. Right now I'm playing only jurassic Park premium and it's a fun game but I doubt any moments from the game will stick in my memory whenever I move into the next thing. If they could re-release GB with a few tweaks, it could be 9.5 easily.

And to think he pulled the "public figure" card.

If I tuned out every person who I've ever had a different opinion than, I'd be a very lonely person. Do I agree with everything Cary says, no, but I appreciate his commentary and putting himself out there. If you want rainbows and unicorns watch SDTM.

Thanks for recognizing your brain fart. Like you, I love LZ (and SR's work in general). Unfortunately, LZ was a big disappointment to me (I've played both the Pro and LE). Sounds like you really wanted to like it and the dude you are blasting made you reconsider your superficial/initial assessment.

"I was happy until I was told that I wasn't."

You can't help but laugh at this hobby sometimes. I absolutely agree that these games aren't giving people enough value for the price, but maybe some people should just stay plugged into the matrix.

GB has better callouts and music than GnR. Fight me!

Alright!!!

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That's just it, it can be. If one thinks it is then it is. The entire rating system for everything, stinks. How do u know what I deem greatness and vice versa. Majority? fuck them. I wouldn't care if 99 out of 100 people say it sucks. If I'm the 1 that thinks its amazing that's all that matters. 2 many pinsiders judge their own collection based on what other people think. Man is that stupid. This Hary Cary fella or those other 2 Zack and Meny whatever, who cares what they think. Twippys? what a stupid thing to have for such a small hobby. Whats the point outside of a few dickheads on this site loving that their game won GOTY. Anyway..........

I disagree with this comment for the reasons that making a pinball game is not a cheap or a simple matter. A big part of the reason why stern nearly died is that they listened to the voices that would say I want it all and I want it for less. This downward spiral nearly cost us all pinball production from any company at all.

If you want wally world prices. go to walmart. Stern even tried to make the "home models" without a coin door and other "features. Remember how that went? So if pinball is to survive in today's economic environment, it will cost more. It is not going to go down in price any time soon if not, ever. It costs money to make stuff. And to do so at the expense of the people who make their living at making these awesome toys is short sighted and selfish.

If you don't want to spend money on pinball, you will have to spend time on games that need love or you are going to get lucky. And you can't buy back time. And luck is a fickle bitch.

So go play pinball on location. rent it out, a game at a time. Quit complaining that it isn't $.50 anymore. Those days are gone. Buy an old game and give it some love. Buy a new game if that is what you want. The entrance fee for a new game is at least $6500.-. $7500.- new. Want it for less, those days are gone.

I am not a wealthy man. But I have so many games now that I trade them like kids trade baseball cards. I also have been collecting for 20 years. This may not be your case, but this is the market we are in today. Heck, if you are in my neighborhood, shoot me a message and I'll show you around or play a few with you at my place. I am happy to share. I can do that. But I also know enough about pinball to realize that it is a more fragile concept than most people care to realize. I am grateful for every new game coming out.

If this is something that you are not willing to pay for, I get it. If you are not able to afford it. I get it. I learned how to fix games because I could not afford to and have yet to buy a brand new game out of the box. Ever. 6-10 k is crazy town? OK, how about everything else going up in price?

But the whole "it isn't cheap enough for me" argument is getting old. Do you want to try pinochle? I heard you can play that for cheap... And I hate that answer. But I don't have another one for this mindset. In so many directions, on so many levels.

And I'm out like a trout...

Wait...you loved the game but now you can't buy one because someone else does not like it? I don't think the issue here is Cary Hardy.

I haven't read the last two pages, but I want to add I enjoy the CH YouTube videos. I use YouTube for about 50% of my TV viewing and have for years now, so I have embraced the format. Cary is kind of negative, but appears genuine and really enjoys the hobby. I also appreciate his DR insights he's providing in that thread.

I also like the STDM videos, and I'm not basing my purchases on any of these game reviews.

Here's the algorithm for all pinball:

1. Buy machine.
2. Play machine.
3. Sell machine.
4. Repeat.

You're good. Don't need reviews.

I mean yeah, you can think a game is whatever level of greatness, but if you give bad games a 8.6 and you consider a game that has major flaws that everyone admits (including the reviewer in question) but you still rate it as near to perfect as possible, thats no longer an objective review and even more worthless than a normal review that is just somebodies opinion. Theres lots of games out there that I like that others don't so much, and vice versa, and same with lots of other things such as music and movies. Theres still a difference though when somebody says something I disagree with (I don't like this game and heres why) and X game is nearly perfect because all games are great and the lowest score I can give any game is 8.6 out of 10.

I didn't always agree with siskel and ebert, but if they gave every single movie 2 thumbs up, I'd think they were idiots. If they considered every movie to be a masterpiece then they are even dumber. I respected their reviews even when I disagreed.

I just watched CH's two videos about STh and LZ and came to the realization that his videos are actually very helpful to me. From now on I'll be sure to buy every game he hates.

My problem is I keep skipping step 3... and now I'm putting in an RV garage/game room to handle THAT problem, which is not a really a problem to anyone except for "significant others" who give you the Spock's eyebrow when ever you talk about buying another machine.

It took me over a year to put a review on pinside for stranger things. (I gave it a hair under 8). I didn’t think it was fair until the game was baked and I had good time on it. You always have to take that into consideration when reading or watching reviews. A good amount of them are based on basically first impressions.

I have not watched Cary at all. Perhaps I will have a look.

Nope.
Its up to the reviewer, objectivity is still set by the individual rating the game. U said "everyone admits" its not enough for him to outweigh the good and give a bad rating. Does that mean he might be a bit of fuckin goof? ok but none the less. There are pinsiders who rate games 1 out of 10. Is that still objective cause they have made that rating within the provided criteria? I just realized I don't care.

Popeye sucks... Probably.

Fixed it for you

Oh yeah, we've all got one of those. One time Jack Danger pissed me off, and I made a pretty angry post about him in the heat of the moment. I forgot all about it, and then 2 months later someone went and quoted the most negative part of my post, and said how much they agreed with me! A bunch more people ended up seeing my post then I ever intended, and I wanted to go crawl into a hole, since by that point I was over the whole thing and kinda embarrassed about what I had written

Ah well, in the end what's done is done. The permanency of the Internet can be a tough teacher for us all.

Does this Cary girl ever show any T&A? If not im out.

So you come here publicly calling some dude out on his bad review and then follow it up by telling us IJ 4, one of the biggest pieces of shit ever made, is a fun game?!?
Stop digging your hole deeper man!

Ask a mod to close it and it'll drop off into oblivion...

never let a pinball nerd make your life decisions.

When I first got into the hobby I let other peoples opinions keep me from enjoying Munsters, but now I put quarters in it literally anytime I see one. I also made the mistake of buying a GnR because of all the hype and was bored out of my skull in a month.

Other peoples opinions are meaningless as to what you should and shouldn't like. I think Cary is a genuine dude giving his thoughts, but who really gives a shit what he or anyone else thinks. Its your game room, buy whatever you want.

I really like the videos other people put up that examine games before they are released. Cary helped me make the decision to get in on a Rick and Morty. TNT amusements has videos of games I watch to help me see if I’d like a game or not. Kaneda doesn’t hold back his opinion on anything. The classic pinball podcast gives cool stories on all games. I enjoy most pinball media, and will read/listen/watch what I can on machines I may be interested in to help me make a decision. Cary’s stuff is good because he is one of the few folks that speculate on things before they are released… when the folks that go in on LEs and CEs have to make their decision. I am not in that club, but it is always fun to see others opinions on games. However, that is just what they are. We all have our own tastes. The game that got me back into pinball is one that was universally panned on this site when it was first released… Stern Avengers (2012). These are just other people’s opinions. Most of the people we see putting out content are way more into pinball and way better at pinball and it skews the opinions. As long as you keep that in mind and realize that we all have our own preferences, we will be good. I also like and have used some of the “how to” videos Cary has put out. Thanks! With the exception of the set of Pinstadiums he installed, I don’t think he is on anyone’s payroll (beside free pinstadiums), and as such he is free to give opinions on games others may not give that are on the payroll or trying to get early access to things. Cary, I know you are lurking here. Do your thing and keep making your videos. You taught me how to remove mylar. You showed me how to do my insert decals. Thanks for what you are doing. You do you.

What game won GOTY??I missed hearing who won this year.

Agreed! I do the same.

The only youtuber thats opinion matters is Greg Bone!!!

Play and buy to your own taste. Watch youtube with an open mind and realize it's 2% fact and 98% opinion and innuendo.

I don't expect prices to go down. What I do expect as a customer is for a game that cost $6500 - $9000+ to be backed up with multiple features, toys, great code, etc. I'm not paying thousands of dollars for a cabinet and a couple basic orbits and ramps just because its fun.

If fun factor alone trumped features then Ford would be charging $100k for a Mustang GT but they don't. Why? The features don't justify the price at that price level. That's partially what has happened with modern pinball machine pricing. That's how you get to basic toppers costing $500 - $1k+ that look like lawn ornaments. None of what I said is about not being able to afford modern pins (I've bought a decent number of them) but rather simply wanting value (features, toys, code, build quality, etc) when dropping $6500 - $9k+ on a pinball machine of all things.

A LOTR in 2003 was around $3500 NIB. In 2021 dollars that just over $5k. Are pinball buyers getting similar featured games for $5k in 2021? No, but that should probably be expected as Stern almost went out of business 12 - 15 years ago. How about at current pro price of around $6500? No. To get a game with similar features as LOTR you now need to pay $7500+ for a premium model and the game you get doesn't have direct print artwork, doesn't have a lock down bar, doesn't have a traditional head lock, the playfield may have issues, the head itself is made out of 50% metal, etc. The sad thing is those last few items are all cost cutting decisions.

Sorry for the rant lol.

I didn't let everyone's poor opinion of JJP Pirates sway my purchase. Glad I went with what I wanted....

Cary Hardy though makes good points and reviews. If you disagree, so what?

Yes - better the Bone than the Shill

This hobby is so weird towards people who clearly love pinball and are genuinely disappointed when a product isn't excellent. I think he's pretty reasonable and makes constructive criticism overall. He's not shitting on things for the sake of shitting on things (other than some exploitative consumer practices that I think most people, who aren't wealthy, could agree with)

And it is funny to me that OP basically realized Cary made good points...and that's what upset them and somehow invalidated their feeling of enjoyment. How much did you even really like it to begin with?

I think some people can't separate a game from the experience of being with their friends, having drinks, some laughs, and a good time.

And if someone doesn't like something you enjoy...so what? You can't argue an emotional response.

SDTM had a good thing going until the "Needs of the Meny outweighed the needs of the few- "

"Or the one-" croaked Greg Bone as he sucked his last breath of life after Zach dropped a Twilight Zone off his Escalera on him.

Gregs the man! Zack on camera is different then if you email him directly. Hes alittle less shilly and no salesman shit when its a private conversation. They make a great team that works well together. Just wish they would put out more SDTM videos in general. Like revisting some old reviews now that codes complete on most of there reviews and more this or thats, there my favorite! Lets kick this shit!

I got AIQ pro well under 6k. It has:

Full color LCD with far more visual content than LOTR's DMD
Full 44.1hz stereo sound compared to LOTR pseudo-MIDI and low-res samples
3 ramps compared to LOTR's 3 ramps
A spinning disc toy, 3bank of drops and lockbar action button compared to LOTR's Balrog toy, sword ramp and Path of the Dead UPF
RGB LED inserts compared to LOTR's incandescent-lit inserts
Crappy voice acting compared to excellent movie-actor LOTR quotes
Incredibly deep ruleset compared to LOTR incredibly deep ruleset
Licensed theme compared to LOTR licensed theme
Easy to update compared to LOTR ordering or burning EPROM chips

Honestly, they seem about equal. LOTR has better voices and maybe better toys, but IMHO the disc is more fun than POTD. AIQ has better audio and video by far, and overall better technology.

Honestly you can put a positive or negative twist on any game. Heck just pretend you own it and you are trying to sell it and you can make it the next MM, AFM etc.

I think a lot of people turn in to some channels for the personality more so than the actual reviews. Keeping in mind I don't actually watch game reviews, just never got into it I guess.

Love King Diamond

\m/

Cactus Jack's may be the best pin ever made.

Not an opinion.

It was this borefest full of fat ex rock stars. I can't remember but a lot of old timer pinsiders who love flashy lights thought it was really neat.

Yeah it is I can't stand it.

Maybe Zeppelin (a far superior band) can sweep the Twipy’s next year ?

Exactly! AIQ LE should of won best pin. So much more to shoot at and doesnt feel like a rookie(Elwin is a rookie at designing i know but sure doesnt feel like it) designed it like GnR with no good shots. GnR does have the best light show in town though ill give it that but soon as everyone starts getting there machines we will see a flood of LEs on the used market, mark my words and if im wrong ill eat crow and say i was wrong but highly doubt it unless the few fan boys that only own JJP talk over everybody else.

Did OP start this thread with actual malice?