This thread seemed to go really fast. Im not sure I have the full timeline of events in my head. Im not in ops shoes. Id certainly be frustrated. But im not sure i would have sold it over just the cracked ramps. Pissed yes. Enough to sell the whole thing... I dont think so. Now if i didnt like the game etc... That might play into it.

Sound like it is working out.

This is partly why JJP is so polarizing. Some people are getting really good support, and some people are getting really bad support. Some people are getting games that work perfect, but others are getting games that take literally months and teeth pulling to get fixed.

To the people who got great games, and/or received great support, congrats. To the people who got duds, sorry you got unlucky.

My opinion, and it's from someone who got screwed hard on a RR75th, JJP can go away. I'd like to think that even if my game worked perfectly, and I heard about how they were treating people, I'd feel the same why, not sure.

At the end of the day, love or hate JJP, some people are getting great games and great service, and some people are getting screwed.

Sure, if you don't like the game, then the bad customer service would be a way to be mentally satisfied that you sold it.

But remember all the hype surrounding WOZ before it came out. The playfield would be 3/4" thick, the clearcoat so good it would never dimple, the cabinet would be digitally printed and then clearcoated - no decals, 10 channel surround sound......I mean really, how could any game ever live up to such a buildup??

I agree. I have had great experience with Stern, but I've heard others with poor experiences with Stern. I'm thinking that the majority of people get taken care of well, by Stern and JJP, but the consistency isn't 100% with either manufacturer. I have to think that for both, it's the exception rather than the rule.

See, that's just Fing bullsh*t. When I was blowing a 5v LED board on weekly basis. I knew a few people that got 7.5v replacement boards but when I asked I was told NO, one board at a time. Exactly the reason I sold my WOZ.
Exactly the reason I won't buy a Hobbit.

CQ to fourman:" Get someone over here to replace this ramp and turn down the pressure on that air driver on station 6! We're over-tightening screws!" CQ isn't that difficult.

Did you make a Pinside post about it and bitch? if not, thats the reason..

Exactly! No, I asked one of the support techs. I still have the PM.

Yeah, you missed a key point.

OP didn't post here until after he had already waited multiple WEEKS fora reply- and when it came he was told it wasn't covered.

Yes, Jack jumped in immediately after the titanic hit the ocean floor to fix the hole in the boat..... Congrats.

You need to get.... livid!

haha.

Livid la vida loca!

Lowepg - No I didn't miss the point. I deal with customer service issues all the time and no organization is perfect all the time.

This one was probably never escalated to Jack internally and it may have never been escalated to the right level to get resolved properly in the first place. This could have been a process breakdown or could have been the result of the interaction with the OP.

It's unfortunate if it took a Pinside post to get it escalated to Jack, but he deserves credit for taking care of it as soon as he heard about it.

I hope JJP learned from this and adjusted their policies on similar issues. If they didn't, then that will be the real tragedy.

I just can't believe that it can be repeated over and over that this is *not about the cracks* and yet so many just don't get it.

That's my point of view too. If you have a clear problem, fix it. Not just for a select few but for everyone. Every 25 or so games on mine, the lower right side locks up, I opened a ticket, even got a PM directly from Jack ( after I started a rip thread ), in the end, I was told take a picture or video of it. So, nothing happened!

Even though they know its a serious problem, only select few get replacement parts. It makes no sense to me.

Also, the ticket system is totally flawed, sorry JJP but it is. Shouldn't take 2-3 days for a response based on the amount of machines you have in the wild.

My fingers are crossed that sometime next week I get my new power box assembly, which by the way, I shouldnt need to pay for on a game with less than 200 total plays and I'm up and running again, then I'll just keep my camera beside the game when I play. On the other hand, I'll snap a picture and get 1 new board, then another will go later on. This is not the right way to do business.

Well, I think you've hit on another point that isn't discussed as much here...but may be growing.

I'm not suggested its widespread, but there are definitely a growing number of folks here who are NOT getting the exemplary service JJP has touted.... if its troubleshooting that can be done via phone from Lloyd - yes- its pretty good....

But, when it comes to getting replacement parts (under warranty) - that is sometimes a different story.

You are hearing SOME of these stories, but why aren't you hearing even more of them?

Simple. The affected customers are reluctant to get on JJP's bad side by publicly airing their issues- worried it will make a bad situation even worse.....

I'm sure the fans will discount this as more JJP-bashing, but they cant be helped....

I really hope JJP can start shipping TH's soon and restart the cash flow- its clearly contributing to this fall-off in warranty support.

A shitload of money coming in the door can solve a lot of problems! I truly hope that happens soon!

Argumentum ad ignorantiam. You are saying that because there is no evidence to the contrary it proves your statement is true. No, it doesn't.

and sold it to me... I agree it is pretty depressing that some customers seem to have been better taken care of than others.

I did end up getting a few boards from JJP tech support, then the boards started blowing a lot less after a few software updates. I'm not sure if it was ever really fixed... I suspect they probably found a way in software to detect if somebody has the 5V supply and turned down the power on the LED's. I've seen LED strings go out since the software upgrade but it resolves on reboot. I wish they'd offer a 7.5V upgrade kit though (yes, I'd pay for it), since I'm sure the issue is hurting the resale value.

I'd love to know the timeline and interactions behind this issue...but didn't JJ reach out and say he'd make it all right?

Just for the record, when I installed my cliffy's I lost a black hex post that goes under the right miniplayfield. Drove me crazy for hours... couldn't find it. So, I emailed tech support...asked them if I could buy the hex post. Within hours they got back to me and said "no"...they'd send it to me for free. A couple of days later I received three new black hex posts in the mail.

My experience with them was great.

too late she cried.

Looking back...this all happened in a couple of weeks. Sometimes you need to give things time to get resolved to satisfaction. Was it too late?

With social media the way it is today, every retailer needs to step up and provide good service....or else. And how do some get great service from JJP while others don't. Do those with a higher profile on Pinside get better results? Because if they don't, Jack knows they're going to talk?

^^^ Really good questions.

It would be interesting to go through and dissect all of the relevant variables... impossible task, though.
One thing for sure...folks should buy these games through distributors that they trust (and know will go to bat for them).

I am very open with the issues I am having with my Bader playfield. The playfield has been recognized as one that was in the batch of playfields with known issues yet the recourse for my situation seems vastly different than what other's have received.

I find it incredibly frustrating.

Its like Lowes / Home Depot, if you are an attractive female you have 5 guys helping you. If not its a ghost town..

is this the real reason why bruce jenner made the switch?

It's completely unacceptable that you have not received an adequate resolution to this issue.

Your situation seems to be the opposite of the theory that WOZ owners with a higher public profile get treated better than others.

No, I'm saying there IS evidence, but much of it is NOT made public here for the reasons listed. I'm spoken with multiple people in this precise situation.

Jack has well-documented reputation of lashing out at his detractors here, plenty of folks can confirm. If I were a frustrated customer - I'd think twice about painting that target on by back while waiting for JJP to fix my "$9000 toy"

Not me. I'd be reasonable and give it some time, but once I found out others were being treated differently, I'd be screaming from my rooftop. I can be an asshole when I need to be.

I can't imagine any company making decisions based on a customers social media profile.

After 227 posts on this topic, I don't believe anyone has mentioned $$ being part of the JJP decision making process. This is one of the risks buying from a newly created company that arguably didn't fire on all cylinders for their first product offering. If a large percentage (say 20%) had issues that involve pricey parts/service, then it's clear making everyone "happy" might not reconcile with their bottom line. At some point, the bean counters start sharpening the pencil and have unfortunate influence on how companies respond to service requests. Not saying this is the root cause, but having to get Jack's attention for stuff like this sounds ridiculous.

snaroff

I can be an asshole as well, but I don't scream while doing it, I sit back quietly and unfurl facts for others to argue over.

Agree 100%.

As I said previously

I think JJP was sending parts out the door like crazy in the early days of WoZ to fix the defective machines, but it's caught up to them now and NOW they are getting stingy with spending money.... Can't think of ANY other reason they haven't taken care of taylorVA's crappy PF immediately... Or an issue like this escalating to Jack and he doesnt step in with a $50 ramp until AFTER getting skewered on pinside.

I should favorite this thread, that way if I ever contemplate buying a NIB game, I can go back read it and see why it is probably not worth the extra money. Seems I would be setting myself up for disappointment. I don't require my games to be perfect, but if I paid NIB prices, I sure has heck would expect it to be.

Problem is, even with something relatively minor like this, the fact it is there and they are not responding, it would end up bothering the crap out of me, certainly more then it should, but every time I played the game I would be reminded of it, and it would take away from my enjoyment of the game.

We all thought that was a 7day a week job for you?

Exactly! I'm livid that I havnt used the word livid more... (It gets results)

Just don't be this livid

Yep. I wasn't offered the new 7.5 boards and transformer either. Some people were, others weren't. I figure I lost at least an extra $750 when I sold because of its early build date. No one wanted a game out of warranty with inferior parts and defective clear.

The livid's in the details.

What really happened...

Jack: we want to make this right, new ramps in the mail!
sparechange1974: f%(k your ramps!! @JJP #AbsolutelyLivid #NotInKansasAnymore

Machine sold for $1 profit and he kept the manual

There was a rumor some people got full board sets, there were rumors some got them one by one when they asked and then there is my case in which I have to take pictures first. I also heard that possibly they did some re-programming and that has solved the light board issues.

Through all of this, JJP has never said a word either way and I cant figure out why?

What? when did this happen? That's not what a certain podcast says.

Yes.

Over reacted. If you look hard enough at anything man made you can find an imperfection somewhere.

very f#cking poor... what is the "recourse" ?

Well said, and I'll just chime as someone who completely understands, who sold their WOZ because of the same headaches with the support ticket system. My problem was the utter and complete NIGHTMARE of the light boards. Just be thankful you never had to deal with that!

The fact that JJP would not send me all new light boards for WOZ, knowing they will all go bad, was the reason I sold mine and cancelled Hobbit pre-order (also the fact that the Smaug toy was total rubbish and the game looks boring as sin). After 4-5 support ticket sessions of determining which board is bad, them sending me a new board (with an invoice due :eyeroll: but which gets voided when they receive your bad board back), installing it to have like 3 more lights come on and the rest still be off, then get a new board two weeks later, and then 2 more lights come on, then they all work for 3 weeks and then they all go out but 3, and you start the process over again, realizing that you will eventually need to replace every board in the machine...

I asked myself, "Do you love WOZ enough to have your playfield up for the better part of the next year or two as you replace every single lightboard in the machine with their slow and tedious support ticket system?" The answer was NO. So I moved on.

WOZ became a source of frustration, not fun, and while I did enjoy the machine when it was functional, whoever came up with their Christmas tree light system is a special kind of moron. I mean, you know they figured out in the 60's that was a bad idea, right? LOL

Anyway, I still wish JJP the best, and also may consider their products in the future, but they need to revamp their support ticket system for sure. But I suspect, as some have touched on, that $$ may be a factor in how they determine what they can/can't do.

Not a company comparison but simply Service vs Service, just as an example of how the support ticket system might be improved, here's how my last warranty problem with Stern was handled: Magnet board in MET goes out, I email Pat Powers, he emails me back in like 30 mins with a couple questions, I email him back, and 2 days later I get a new board on my doorstep (no invoice), and return the defective board to them and go back to playing pinball. Simple, no headaches.

To all pinball companies: Pinball is supposed to be about FUN, and nobody NEEDS your products, we only spend ridiculous amounts of cash on them because we want to have FUN. Service depts need to remember that, always. Minimize our headaches as customers and that will help maximize our fun.

funny.jpg

Pins perfect from factory is a myth. Ain't happening. There will be cosmetic damage and play issues out of the box. It's just a matter of having the patience to set the game up correctly so it plays right and letting minor cosmetic stuff go. If you look real hard you'll find something.

Unacceptable, period. Patience has nothing to do with it, its new, it should look so. If the inspection process fails, they should replace the parts asap. Its your kind of attitude that lead to these companies not giving a shit. This thread is proof that MANY people really care, and go as far as to sell the machine.

On a $100 or $9000 machine, "letting the minor cosmetic stuff go", isn't an option for me or almost everyone else.

At less than a grand, I really don't care too much. When I am paying 9K, it better be damn close to perfect.

All good and I hear you but also fantasy island. Sorry. Just the way it is. Cars don't leave lot cosmetically perfect. Major $$ stainless steel appliances don't come out of box perfect. Trust me I've been there. Doesn't make me happy and I wish people gave a shit but they simply don't. Best you can do is negotiate a monetary adjustment that you can live with and move on.