(Topic ID: 132552)

I'm absolutely livid over this experience..Am I over reacting...


By sparechange1974

4 years ago



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#201 4 years ago

This thread seemed to go really fast. Im not sure I have the full timeline of events in my head. Im not in ops shoes. Id certainly be frustrated. But im not sure i would have sold it over just the cracked ramps. Pissed yes. Enough to sell the whole thing... I dont think so. Now if i didnt like the game etc... That might play into it.

Sound like it is working out.

#202 4 years ago

This is partly why JJP is so polarizing. Some people are getting really good support, and some people are getting really bad support. Some people are getting games that work perfect, but others are getting games that take literally months and teeth pulling to get fixed.

To the people who got great games, and/or received great support, congrats. To the people who got duds, sorry you got unlucky.

My opinion, and it's from someone who got screwed hard on a RR75th, JJP can go away. I'd like to think that even if my game worked perfectly, and I heard about how they were treating people, I'd feel the same why, not sure.

At the end of the day, love or hate JJP, some people are getting great games and great service, and some people are getting screwed.

Quoted from Hitch9:

I'm wondering if this is a remote situation. I've had nib sterns and WOZ. Anytime I had a problem with my Sterns I got great support. I had an early WOZ, like two months after production started. My warranty ended a year ago. Every time I've had an issue, I had similar or better support from JJP. Even when I broke something because of my mistake, and offered to buy the part it was sent free. They have been very kind. Once they sent a very expensive part and didn't want the old part back. It was still usable, just cosmetic. When I offered to pay a pro rated price, and I didn't feel right about accepting a brand new part, when I could use the old part, they said "too bad, you are getting it free".
I guess I'm chiming in here, because there is nothing more damaging as bad news about a company, and there usually isn't a lot of people going on here sharing positive experiences. I didn't think it fair to not share my positive experience.
So far my buying experience from both companies has been stellar.

#203 4 years ago
Quoted from Rickwh:

Now if i didnt like the game etc... That might play into it.

Sure, if you don't like the game, then the bad customer service would be a way to be mentally satisfied that you sold it.

But remember all the hype surrounding WOZ before it came out. The playfield would be 3/4" thick, the clearcoat so good it would never dimple, the cabinet would be digitally printed and then clearcoated - no decals, 10 channel surround sound......I mean really, how could any game ever live up to such a buildup??

#204 4 years ago
Quoted from usandthem:

It's awesome that you've had these great experiences. Many have come on here echoing similar sentiments. Unfortunately, that has not been everybody's experience. So, couldn't one argue that inconsistency is a big part of the problem? You never know what you're going to get.

I agree. I have had great experience with Stern, but I've heard others with poor experiences with Stern. I'm thinking that the majority of people get taken care of well, by Stern and JJP, but the consistency isn't 100% with either manufacturer. I have to think that for both, it's the exception rather than the rule.

10
#205 4 years ago
Quoted from Imeh:

I own an early production WOZECLE. I experienced all of the issues the early 5v games had with LEDs blowing and numerous other issues. JJP stood behind their product 100%. Jack spent several grand making my machine right, well beyond the warrentee period. It's is now, and has been for quite a while now, operating perfectly and is one of the finest quality machines I have ever played. JJP's commitment to customer satisfaction isn't even in question to me. I have heard a lot of complaining, but the fact is, I don't know anyone that didn't get an issue satisfactorily resolved. Lloyd and the rest of the team are superior at what they do, and they bend over backwards to get your issue taken care of. I'm glad Jack has entered the manufacturing arena and has raised the bar on tech and quality.
I will not hesitate to purchase another JJP product and intend to jump on the Lawlor pin as soon as they finish up TH.

See, that's just Fing bullsh*t. When I was blowing a 5v LED board on weekly basis. I knew a few people that got 7.5v replacement boards but when I asked I was told NO, one board at a time. Exactly the reason I sold my WOZ.
Exactly the reason I won't buy a Hobbit.

#206 4 years ago

CQ to fourman:" Get someone over here to replace this ramp and turn down the pressure on that air driver on station 6! We're over-tightening screws!" CQ isn't that difficult.

#207 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

See, that's just Fing bullsh*t. When I was blowing a 5v LED board on weekly basis. I knew a few people that got 7.5v replacement boards but when I asked I was told NO, one board at a time. Exactly the reason I sold my WOZ.
Exactly the reason I won't buy a Hobbit.

Did you make a Pinside post about it and bitch? if not, thats the reason..

#208 4 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

Did you make a Pinside post about it and bitch? if not, thats the reason..

Exactly! No, I asked one of the support techs. I still have the PM.

11
#209 4 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

Let me get this right...
Original post made yesterday.
Jack calls within 24 hrs of the original post to make things right.
.

Yeah, you missed a key point.

OP didn't post here until after he had already waited multiple WEEKS fora reply- and when it came he was told it wasn't covered.

Yes, Jack jumped in immediately after the titanic hit the ocean floor to fix the hole in the boat..... Congrats.

11
#210 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

No, I asked one of the support techs.

You need to get.... livid!

#211 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

You need to get.... livid!

haha.

#212 4 years ago

Livid la vida loca!

#213 4 years ago

Lowepg - No I didn't miss the point. I deal with customer service issues all the time and no organization is perfect all the time.

This one was probably never escalated to Jack internally and it may have never been escalated to the right level to get resolved properly in the first place. This could have been a process breakdown or could have been the result of the interaction with the OP.

It's unfortunate if it took a Pinside post to get it escalated to Jack, but he deserves credit for taking care of it as soon as he heard about it.

I hope JJP learned from this and adjusted their policies on similar issues. If they didn't, then that will be the real tragedy.

#214 4 years ago
Quoted from Jeekayjay:

I just can't believe op sold his machine over this. I bet the new buyer couldn't care less about those "cracks".

I just can't believe that it can be repeated over and over that this is *not about the cracks* and yet so many just don't get it.

#215 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

See, that's just Fing bullsh*t. When I was blowing a 5v LED board on weekly basis. I knew a few people that got 7.5v replacement boards but when I asked I was told NO, one board at a time. Exactly the reason I sold my WOZ.
Exactly the reason I won't buy a Hobbit.

That's my point of view too. If you have a clear problem, fix it. Not just for a select few but for everyone. Every 25 or so games on mine, the lower right side locks up, I opened a ticket, even got a PM directly from Jack ( after I started a rip thread ), in the end, I was told take a picture or video of it. So, nothing happened!

Even though they know its a serious problem, only select few get replacement parts. It makes no sense to me.

Also, the ticket system is totally flawed, sorry JJP but it is. Shouldn't take 2-3 days for a response based on the amount of machines you have in the wild.

My fingers are crossed that sometime next week I get my new power box assembly, which by the way, I shouldnt need to pay for on a game with less than 200 total plays and I'm up and running again, then I'll just keep my camera beside the game when I play. On the other hand, I'll snap a picture and get 1 new board, then another will go later on. This is not the right way to do business.

#216 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

That's my point of view too. If you have a clear problem, fix it. Not just for a select few but for everyone. Every 25 or so games on mine, the lower right side locks up, I opened a ticket, even got a PM directly from Jack ( after I started a rip thread ), in the end, I was told take a picture or video of it. So, nothing happened!
Even though they know its a serious problem, only select few get replacement parts. It makes no sense to me.
Also, the ticket system is totally flawed, sorry JJP but it is. Shouldn't take 2-3 days for a response based on the amount of machines you have in the wild.
My fingers are crossed that sometime next week I get my new power box assembly, which by the way, I shouldnt need to pay for on a game with less than 200 total plays and I'm up and running again, then I'll just keep my camera beside the game when I play. On the other hand, I'll snap a picture and get 1 new board, then another will go later on. This is not the right way to do business.

Well, I think you've hit on another point that isn't discussed as much here...but may be growing.

I'm not suggested its widespread, but there are definitely a growing number of folks here who are NOT getting the exemplary service JJP has touted.... if its troubleshooting that can be done via phone from Lloyd - yes- its pretty good....

But, when it comes to getting replacement parts (under warranty) - that is sometimes a different story.

You are hearing SOME of these stories, but why aren't you hearing even more of them?

Simple. The affected customers are reluctant to get on JJP's bad side by publicly airing their issues- worried it will make a bad situation even worse.....

I'm sure the fans will discount this as more JJP-bashing, but they cant be helped....

I really hope JJP can start shipping TH's soon and restart the cash flow- its clearly contributing to this fall-off in warranty support.

A shitload of money coming in the door can solve a lot of problems! I truly hope that happens soon!

-2
#217 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Simple. The affected customers are reluctant to get on JJP's bad side by publicly airing their issues- worried it will make a bad situation even worse.....

Argumentum ad ignorantiam. You are saying that because there is no evidence to the contrary it proves your statement is true. No, it doesn't.

#218 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

See, that's just Fing bullsh*t. When I was blowing a 5v LED board on weekly basis. I knew a few people that got 7.5v replacement boards but when I asked I was told NO, one board at a time. Exactly the reason I sold my WOZ.

and sold it to me... I agree it is pretty depressing that some customers seem to have been better taken care of than others.

I did end up getting a few boards from JJP tech support, then the boards started blowing a lot less after a few software updates. I'm not sure if it was ever really fixed... I suspect they probably found a way in software to detect if somebody has the 5V supply and turned down the power on the LED's. I've seen LED strings go out since the software upgrade but it resolves on reboot. I wish they'd offer a 7.5V upgrade kit though (yes, I'd pay for it), since I'm sure the issue is hurting the resale value.

#219 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

I just can't believe that it can be repeated over and over that this is *not about the cracks* and yet so many just don't get it.

I'd love to know the timeline and interactions behind this issue...but didn't JJ reach out and say he'd make it all right?

Just for the record, when I installed my cliffy's I lost a black hex post that goes under the right miniplayfield. Drove me crazy for hours... couldn't find it. So, I emailed tech support...asked them if I could buy the hex post. Within hours they got back to me and said "no"...they'd send it to me for free. A couple of days later I received three new black hex posts in the mail.

My experience with them was great.

#220 4 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

but didn't JJ reach out and say he'd make it all right?

too late she cried.

#221 4 years ago

Looking back...this all happened in a couple of weeks. Sometimes you need to give things time to get resolved to satisfaction. Was it too late?

#222 4 years ago

With social media the way it is today, every retailer needs to step up and provide good service....or else. And how do some get great service from JJP while others don't. Do those with a higher profile on Pinside get better results? Because if they don't, Jack knows they're going to talk?

-1
#223 4 years ago

^^^ Really good questions.

It would be interesting to go through and dissect all of the relevant variables... impossible task, though.
One thing for sure...folks should buy these games through distributors that they trust (and know will go to bat for them).

#224 4 years ago

I am very open with the issues I am having with my Bader playfield. The playfield has been recognized as one that was in the batch of playfields with known issues yet the recourse for my situation seems vastly different than what other's have received.

I find it incredibly frustrating.

#225 4 years ago

Its like Lowes / Home Depot, if you are an attractive female you have 5 guys helping you. If not its a ghost town..

#226 4 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

Its like Lowes / Home Depot, if you are an attractive female you have 5 guys helping you. If not its a ghost town..

is this the real reason why bruce jenner made the switch?

#227 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

I am very open with the issues I am having with my Bader playfield. The playfield has been recognized as one that was in the batch of playfields with known issues yet the recourse for my situation seems vastly different than what other's have received.
I find it incredibly frustrating.

It's completely unacceptable that you have not received an adequate resolution to this issue.

Your situation seems to be the opposite of the theory that WOZ owners with a higher public profile get treated better than others.

#228 4 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Argumentum ad ignorantiam. You are saying that because there is no evidence to the contrary it proves your statement is true. No, it doesn't.

No, I'm saying there IS evidence, but much of it is NOT made public here for the reasons listed. I'm spoken with multiple people in this precise situation.

Jack has well-documented reputation of lashing out at his detractors here, plenty of folks can confirm. If I were a frustrated customer - I'd think twice about painting that target on by back while waiting for JJP to fix my "$9000 toy"

#229 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

If I were a frustrated customer - I'd think twice about painting that target on by back while waiting for JJP to fix my "$9000 toy"

Not me. I'd be reasonable and give it some time, but once I found out others were being treated differently, I'd be screaming from my rooftop. I can be an asshole when I need to be.

#230 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

It's completely unacceptable that you have not received an adequate resolution to this issue.
Your situation seems to be the opposite of the theory that WOZ owners with a higher public profile get treated better than others.

I can't imagine any company making decisions based on a customers social media profile.

After 227 posts on this topic, I don't believe anyone has mentioned $$ being part of the JJP decision making process. This is one of the risks buying from a newly created company that arguably didn't fire on all cylinders for their first product offering. If a large percentage (say 20%) had issues that involve pricey parts/service, then it's clear making everyone "happy" might not reconcile with their bottom line. At some point, the bean counters start sharpening the pencil and have unfortunate influence on how companies respond to service requests. Not saying this is the root cause, but having to get Jack's attention for stuff like this sounds ridiculous.

snaroff

#231 4 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Not me. I'd be reasonable and give it some time, but once I found out others were being treated differently, I'd be screaming from my rooftop. I can be an asshole when I need to be.

I can be an asshole as well, but I don't scream while doing it, I sit back quietly and unfurl facts for others to argue over.

#232 4 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

After 227 posts on this topic, I don't believe anyone has mentioned $$ being part of the JJP decision making process. This is one of the risks buying from a newly created company that arguably didn't fire on all cylinders for their first product offering. If a large percentage (say 20%) had issues that involve pricey parts/service, then it's clear making everyone "happy" might not reconcile with their bottom line. At some point, the bean counters start sharpening the pencil and have unfortunate influence on how companies respond to service requests. Not saying this is the root cause, but having to get Jack's attention for stuff like this sounds ridiculous.
snaroff

Agree 100%.

As I said previously

Quoted from lowepg:

I really hope JJP can start shipping TH's soon and restart the cash flow- its clearly contributing to this fall-off in warranty support. A shitload of money coming in the door can solve a lot of problems! I truly hope that happens soon!

I think JJP was sending parts out the door like crazy in the early days of WoZ to fix the defective machines, but it's caught up to them now and NOW they are getting stingy with spending money.... Can't think of ANY other reason they haven't taken care of taylorVA's crappy PF immediately... Or an issue like this escalating to Jack and he doesnt step in with a $50 ramp until AFTER getting skewered on pinside.

#233 4 years ago

I should favorite this thread, that way if I ever contemplate buying a NIB game, I can go back read it and see why it is probably not worth the extra money. Seems I would be setting myself up for disappointment. I don't require my games to be perfect, but if I paid NIB prices, I sure has heck would expect it to be.

Problem is, even with something relatively minor like this, the fact it is there and they are not responding, it would end up bothering the crap out of me, certainly more then it should, but every time I played the game I would be reminded of it, and it would take away from my enjoyment of the game.

#234 4 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I can be an asshole when I need to be.

We all thought that was a 7day a week job for you?

#235 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

You need to get.... livid!

Exactly! I'm livid that I havnt used the word livid more... (It gets results)

#236 4 years ago

Just don't be this livid

11
#237 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

See, that's just Fing bullsh*t. When I was blowing a 5v LED board on weekly basis. I knew a few people that got 7.5v replacement boards but when I asked I was told NO, one board at a time. Exactly the reason I sold my WOZ.
Exactly the reason I won't buy a Hobbit.

Yep. I wasn't offered the new 7.5 boards and transformer either. Some people were, others weren't. I figure I lost at least an extra $750 when I sold because of its early build date. No one wanted a game out of warranty with inferior parts and defective clear.

#238 4 years ago

The livid's in the details.

#239 4 years ago

What really happened...

Jack: we want to make this right, new ramps in the mail!
sparechange1974: f%(k your ramps!! @JJP #AbsolutelyLivid #NotInKansasAnymore

Machine sold for $1 profit and he kept the manual

-1
#240 4 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

Yep. I wasn't offered the new 7.5 boards and transformer either. Some people were, others weren't. I figure I lost at least an extra $750 when I sold because of its early build date. No one wanted a game out of warranty with inferior parts and defective clear.

There was a rumor some people got full board sets, there were rumors some got them one by one when they asked and then there is my case in which I have to take pictures first. I also heard that possibly they did some re-programming and that has solved the light board issues.

Through all of this, JJP has never said a word either way and I cant figure out why?

#241 4 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Not me. I'd be reasonable and give it some time, but once I found out others were being treated differently, I'd be screaming from my rooftop. I can be an asshole when I need to be.

What? when did this happen? That's not what a certain podcast says.

#242 4 years ago

Yes.

-1
#243 4 years ago

Over reacted. If you look hard enough at anything man made you can find an imperfection somewhere.

#244 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

I am very open with the issues I am having with my Bader playfield. The playfield has been recognized as one that was in the batch of playfields with known issues yet the recourse for my situation seems vastly different than what other's have received.
I find it incredibly frustrating.

very f#cking poor... what is the "recourse" ?

19
#245 4 years ago
Quoted from sparechange1974:

**Just a quick update** Jack has reached out and said that he would make things right. Say what you will, but that means a lot to me that he would take time out of his day to try to resolve. I'm don't think I'm going to take them up on it, but I appreciate the thoght.***
This was never about some little spider cracks in a ramp. This is never about JJP being a bad company or making a bad game. I think they have some amazing talent(support), amazing games, and amazing distributors from my experience.
When I bought into the WOZ NIB experience, In my mind I bought into a relation ship and a trust that they will work with me on issues and cover them or provide solutions in a reasonable manner and we would work together on repairs. Lets face it, the price does matter. No one said it the machine would be flawless , but I had a fair expectation that I would work with them to resolve issues that were concerns for me. When I went through the proper channels and the responses made the situation worse I lost my confidence in the relationship and I felt they broke my trust, so I chose to end it. The logic was if you're going to give me this hard of a time over little ramp cracks whats coming down the line. Over reaction, maybe I'll never know.

Well said, and I'll just chime as someone who completely understands, who sold their WOZ because of the same headaches with the support ticket system. My problem was the utter and complete NIGHTMARE of the light boards. Just be thankful you never had to deal with that!

The fact that JJP would not send me all new light boards for WOZ, knowing they will all go bad, was the reason I sold mine and cancelled Hobbit pre-order (also the fact that the Smaug toy was total rubbish and the game looks boring as sin). After 4-5 support ticket sessions of determining which board is bad, them sending me a new board (with an invoice due :eyeroll: but which gets voided when they receive your bad board back), installing it to have like 3 more lights come on and the rest still be off, then get a new board two weeks later, and then 2 more lights come on, then they all work for 3 weeks and then they all go out but 3, and you start the process over again, realizing that you will eventually need to replace every board in the machine...

I asked myself, "Do you love WOZ enough to have your playfield up for the better part of the next year or two as you replace every single lightboard in the machine with their slow and tedious support ticket system?" The answer was NO. So I moved on.

WOZ became a source of frustration, not fun, and while I did enjoy the machine when it was functional, whoever came up with their Christmas tree light system is a special kind of moron. I mean, you know they figured out in the 60's that was a bad idea, right? LOL

Anyway, I still wish JJP the best, and also may consider their products in the future, but they need to revamp their support ticket system for sure. But I suspect, as some have touched on, that $$ may be a factor in how they determine what they can/can't do.

Not a company comparison but simply Service vs Service, just as an example of how the support ticket system might be improved, here's how my last warranty problem with Stern was handled: Magnet board in MET goes out, I email Pat Powers, he emails me back in like 30 mins with a couple questions, I email him back, and 2 days later I get a new board on my doorstep (no invoice), and return the defective board to them and go back to playing pinball. Simple, no headaches.

To all pinball companies: Pinball is supposed to be about FUN, and nobody NEEDS your products, we only spend ridiculous amounts of cash on them because we want to have FUN. Service depts need to remember that, always. Minimize our headaches as customers and that will help maximize our fun.

#246 4 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

whoever came up with their Christmas tree light system is a special kind of moron. I mean, you know they figured out in the 60's that was a bad idea, right?

funny.jpg

#247 4 years ago

Pins perfect from factory is a myth. Ain't happening. There will be cosmetic damage and play issues out of the box. It's just a matter of having the patience to set the game up correctly so it plays right and letting minor cosmetic stuff go. If you look real hard you'll find something.

#248 4 years ago
Quoted from Saveleaningtower:

Pins perfect from factory is a myth. Ain't happening. There will be cosmetic damage and play issues out of the box. It's just a matter of having the patience to set the game up correctly so it plays right and letting minor cosmetic stuff go. If you look real hard you'll find something.

Unacceptable, period. Patience has nothing to do with it, its new, it should look so. If the inspection process fails, they should replace the parts asap. Its your kind of attitude that lead to these companies not giving a shit. This thread is proof that MANY people really care, and go as far as to sell the machine.

On a $100 or $9000 machine, "letting the minor cosmetic stuff go", isn't an option for me or almost everyone else.

#249 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

On a $100 or $9000 machine, "letting the minor cosmetic stuff go", isn't an option for me or almost everyone else.

At less than a grand, I really don't care too much. When I am paying 9K, it better be damn close to perfect.

#250 4 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

Unacceptable, period. Patience has nothing to do with it, its new, it should look so. If the inspection process fails, they should replace the parts asap. Its your kind of attitude that lead to these companies not giving a shit. This thread is proof that MANY people really care, and go as far as to sell the machine.
On a $100 or $9000 machine, "letting the minor cosmetic stuff go", isn't an option for me or almost everyone else.

All good and I hear you but also fantasy island. Sorry. Just the way it is. Cars don't leave lot cosmetically perfect. Major $$ stainless steel appliances don't come out of box perfect. Trust me I've been there. Doesn't make me happy and I wish people gave a shit but they simply don't. Best you can do is negotiate a monetary adjustment that you can live with and move on.

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