Try other industries too.....I am retiring from Jewelry manufacturing, one reason is $30 Rubies being sold for $2000-$3000!
(same with other gems)

Purchasing these are about trust.....a consumer cant shop it, and understand the industry.

Nonetheless, in this industry, jewelry manufacturing, it has become too hard to do an honest job.

In that regard, I constantly receive emails from LED factories overseas.

Ill Paraphrase an email conversation where we were playing this last week in "Price negotiations"

The answer was, ".....I can meet your price, but out of every 1000 bulbs, Id expect my boss to have workers add 100-200 C grade
bulbs so we can still profit."

My customers deserve consistency, and whether it is bulb lots for you guys or Diamonds for Macys, Disney I have a self degree of integrity that guides me to do not only the best job, but an honest job.

Simply put, for all consumer goods, there are issues not seen yet with the Globe turning to only the lowest price type business.

I dont worry about light bulbs as much as I do the future for many of us, should things change in China....

Postal shipping is subsidized by the Chinese Government, Much like Yesterdays market collapse there, it doesnt work the same.

US and Canadian Postal bare the cost at a loss, for someone to bring to your door.
This may change soon.

I certainly am no different...lots of stuff from Ebay with Free shipping from China....but this model cant be sustained without changes
that have other issues.....like oil being removed from trading in dollars, or US currency, not being the Global Monetary Fund....another topic.

I had Chinese vendors buying my NVRAM adapters off of ebay recently. I almost did not want to ship them, but there is no real mystery to them...... Now I am just waiting for Chinese assembled FM16W08 adapters to start showing up on aliexpress and ebay for dollars each..

When buying from China, you need to find yourself a good middle man you can trust. I have a guy who i use that sources out all the ICs i sell. He can offer up to me remarks, used pulls, and new components with out one time things coming in funny. I have been working with him for a couple years now and he is very honest. Street level pricing in Shenzen is pretty crazy for a lot of things. Even me paying him the finders fee, i still do way better than domestic suppliers.

Like Ralph, I almost started getting into the LED game right from China because i realized my guy can source them out for a great price, but I decided components i am hawking have less competition.

I almost feel like the Chinese are cheating on the value of their money some how. How can stuff be that much cheaper there.....

Shenzhen is a SEZ (special economic zone). Loose regulatory laws + cheap labour. The money is made at the expense of the working class in extreme. It's capitalism on steroids.

What kinds of street level pricing did you see on LEDs?

Back on track....

Got bulbs?

Bottom pic is all the bulbs I pick up from the ground that are dropped every few weeks lol

20150727_114551.jpg

20150727_114615.jpg

I would actually love to buy a massive hodgepodge of LEDs since I'm not to educated on specifics. I know I prefer frosted LEDs, but there are so many different styles, brightness and colors, I'm a bit shy when it comes to placing orders. You listening Art?

Rob Bell
Robsgameroom.com

Hi Rob,

Right here.

When we pre packaged sample kits, we had people sending emails to remove 3. add 6, return 4, exchange...
It just got messy.

So, we ask people today to build what they want.

The site is so efficient, in 15 minutes you can try what suits your needs.

We have simplified even further, with a brightness chart to help:

http://www.cometpinball.com/category-s/1825.htm

I am not sure what else to do, because I am either informed of what I am missing to offer, or emails that say I have too much.

Ultimately, any pre made sample kit will always fall short.

But in General.

EM's 1 LED to a 2 LED maximum in Brightness
SS Some 1 LED, but 2 -LED to 1 SMD 5050
DMD 1 SMD to a Twin 2835.

Really only 2-3 choices per game, with most variations being for the GI...
This issue, and this variance is dependent on Ambient lighting, sensitivity to LEDs and personal preference.

However, I am happy to listen to any ideas and suggestions....

I did some cool colors on a TFTC DM T2 STTNG etc and have recently switched ALL to Arts super Brite 2 SMD frosted bulbs. After trying many companies and products Im very satisfied with these. I actually got tired of the different colors esp on the PF. it really takes away from the artwork on the pin itself.

I read this thread yesterday and then went and spent $200 at comet.. after sorting out all my bulbs on the weekend and not really needing more!

They do seem to build up over time!

Have you tried the Twin 2835 in Frosted in Yellow?....Sweet Bulb.....CT has them as well..

If recovery means that when I go looking for an obscure bulb amongst my containers it's not there, then I don't ever want to recover!

Not yet......

Wha, $300 sheets of glass and ColorDMDs on your games but no LED OCD! The only explanation is that you haven't had the first taste.

Oh the OCD is a must.

I actually envy you all for having things on hand. I am always ordering and finding myself short the bulbs I need to finish a game. I am hopefully in the next month or so going to drop around $300 just to stock up. Hopefully I can do 2-3 games with that.

I just had to look at this thread, it's gonna cost me a couple hundred bucks, always new ideas to try. Many thanks to Art and James for their advice and help. Whenever my wife sees a box with pinball stuff, I get how much did that cost? I say, it's just a little box with some light bulbs!

Where are you looking to put yellow in WCS? I tried most yellows from Art and James in NG and none were bright enough for me. I am using warm white (sometimes flex's) for yellow inserts and am happy with them. The yellow frosted are fine for the coin toss and such.

I agree. In most cases, people stop with a 1 SMD 5050 in yellow...it doesnt put out much light.

In progressive order, here is how yellow can work better.

Frosted (or Clear...I prefer frosted) Twin 2835 in yellow. Available at Comet and Cointaker Amazing in inserts.
Magnum or Ultra a 1 Watt Yellow Bulb, unlensed, very bright, narrow beam of 1 WATT of bright Yellow. Available at Comet and Cointaker...Focused Spot lights, Bright Yellow Object lighting.....I find its too much for yellow inserts, and costly.
Op-Max. Brightest diffused Yellow, over 300 Degree Spread, Use in GI, or Spots, not for inserts. Comet.

I hope if you or others are looking for yellow inserts, you try these out and see whether you like your yellow inserts this way, Warm White, or Pink.

In Spioderman, there are a bunch of yellow arrows clustered in the middle.....Interesting to try to make them look the same...but also to use some of these combinations, to get the yellow you want.

Nothing can be consistent, though. Different companies, plastics used, and years....so I vary what I use....some look better then others.

In My Tommy, I had one yellow Insert, where I guess a different batch of plastic was used.
With the same bulb, it looked different then the others....I could only match it with Pink....

FUN!

If you bulbaholics haven't tried the big dog Opti-max bulbs from Comet yet, they are insane. Not good everywhere, but if you have a spot that needs the brightest bulb possible and still use 6.3v, these are it. they looked great when used in the buildings of my Fire!

Fire!.jpg

The three buildings in the back all are Opti-max bulbs. Those thick plastic buildings really needed a strong bulb in order to light up nice and bright. I loved how they turned out.

I use tons of the OpMax bulbs, but I like wearing sunglasses when I play. Fantastic bulbs, can't find them for $0.07 from China!

Thanks Chuck,

I do love these as the best for TSPP Towers, My Mountains in white Water, The back of Road Show or Shadow.

Not because I sell these stuff, but because they really do kick ass, I recommend people buy 4-6, in any of the 3 shades of white,
to have on hand, so you can try them different places on a game, and see what they do for you.

I think its one of the neatest lighting bulbs to mess with...but bright and diffused!

Sorry...no $.07...HA! They really are reasonable and started as high end European auto bulbs running $38 to $76 EACH overseas. Yikes!
2 Patents, and a US Exclusive, as it took 9 months to create in 6.3V, and more money then a MM......

I do have yellow frosted pinballbulbs NG in those, and they look fine. I used all NG in my WCS as when I asked what others used, I had people say bad ghosting and others said no need to worry about ghosting, so I played it safe, albeit a bit more money.

Art, I tried your yellow 4 smd non-ghosting and ultimate optix in inserts but not enough light. Yes, optix maximus is a no go for inserts but fun to try! I think I passed on 2835 as I was trying to get everything NG, so I wouldn't have even more of a variety of bulbs. I like the yellow arrow and goal inserts in WCS to really pop, and the flex warm white let's you angle things just right. So many options to try and everyone's tastes are a little different.

fyi - I just noticed those new 11 smd pop bumper LEDs on your website. They look REALLY interesting to me. I hadn't seen them before today.

Thank you,

Non Ghosting Bulbs suffer a bit from Marketing.

In the Average DMD game, one would expect 6 bulbs to Ghost. Sometimes 2-3, and I have seen as high as 8.
Sometimes, its always an outlane in the same game, other times it varies. Some ghosting is seen only when a Jackpot, Extra Ball, and feature are lit at the same time.

Kits that are made can only solve this by selling all non ghosting Bulbs for the inserts, as its easier for everyone, and not too much more
money....in some cases.

GI bulbs in almost all games, especially all newer ones, gain no benefit from Non Ghosting.

My view, because I am a cheap bastard, is to do a game all in regular bulbs, play a while, and just change out a couple that need it.
It may save $10-$20, and if you use our Free shipping or $3.95 small package, One need not worry about doing it all at once.

Regarding Brightness, everyone sees this different. Indeed a Flex or double flex, can be made "brighter" as pushed towards the lens,
and a good choice when non ghosting is needed, especially with using Twin 2835.

If it suits you, try a couple of them in Yellow, or Sunlight...especially Sunlight in the GI....on your next project.
You might find you need a lot less non ghosting then you think, and you can see what you think about the yellows and oranges.

As you say, so many different ways to get to the end....But I like the inserts bright like you. and just am in love with Frosted Twin 2835....just me...

It pleases me to go to a show, and see all the variety....not a fan of them all looking the same.....

Art

Just a heads up on this. That probably isn't true "ghosting", that sounds like a lamp matrix issue. Demolition man is a ghosting game, for example, and all DM games will ghost, unless the rom is patched. This is one of the bad ones for ghosting though. If you are noticing things like you mentioned above go to the lamp row/column charts and find the pattern. A resistor could be shorted, touching diodes etc.

Other games, like say MM for example, do not ghost and shouldn't have any bulbs ghosting. Personally, I don't think you should expect any bulbs to ghost in a game unless the game is known to be a ghosting game. If it does, there is an entirely different problem.

All the games known to ghost can either get non-ghosting bulbs or patch the roms as well.

Thanks James,

I appreciate your wisdom and experience.

I am going by emails of Pinsiders, where the same title, has different inserts that ghost, and do get solved, (I hope)
with NG Bulbs.

Am I understanding you correctly that this variance is caused by something other...resistor, short etc?

Art

I've put the OCD board into TSPP. Huge difference, positively recommended. And very very easy to install.

I should elaborate.

LED doesn't flicker too badly on TSPP. At least not with the LEDs I bought mine with (prior owner); you'll have to judge your own setup . But restoring the warm lamp effects was worth it (imho) on this game.

WCS needs GI OCD too, don't you think that GI flicker when you lock a ball could look just $150 better!?

Not all "ghosting" is caused by that.

If a game is a known ghosting game then it will of course have inserts that ghost. However, if a game is not known to ghost and does not ghost for others, but someone says they are experiencing ghosting then their game has a lamp matrix issue most likely. Shorted transistor, diode touching etc. Easiest way to solve this is pull up lamp matrix and see all lamps ghosting and find the pattern. You can of course put in a non-ghosting bulb in those specific lamps, but many times that is like putting a bandaid on a large wound needing stitches, it'll come back to be a bigger problem later on frequently.

I have noticed there appears to be mild differences in ghosting based on the driver board used. The theory i came up with is there is minor differences in how fast/slow the transistors turn off and on at. I have had mixed results replacing a main column transistor when there is minor ghosting contained in a single lamp matrix column.

I've read that you shouldn't use non-ghosting bulbs with LED/GI OCD, is that true? What happens if you do?

You'll rip a hole in the space-time continuum.

That's about what I expected.

Do you know if it's noticeable to the human eye or is it one of those things that only exists in numbers and statistics?

The graph is in the FAQ.
http://ledocd.com/faq_led.html

Basically, with non-ghosters, you can't use as low of brightness values, so there is a bigger jump from off to low brightness. You usually can't see that, though.

A bigger problem, however, is if you have a game like Spider-Man that dims certain inserts. Since the low brightness percentages don't light (or flicker) with non-ghosters, you get lights that don't light or flicker when they're trying to light dim. To fix this, you can set the percentage higher through the LED OCD, but you won't have as much of a difference in brightness to let you be able to see what the insert is trying to tell you.

So basically a general rule of thumb is to NOT use non-ghosting bulbs with an LED OCD board?

If you want the best possible performance, yes. Certainly if you're buying bulbs with intentions to use them with an LED OCD, buy the plain ones. If you already have non-ghosters, you can adjust to accommodate them, but your results will not be as good as they could be.

Thanks for all the great info. My games all have non-ghosting LEDs in them. If I list some games, would you be able to tell me if they are games that would be worth switching to plain bulbs from the non-ghosting?

The Shadow
Johnny Mnemonic
Bram Stokers Dracula