James,
I think you presented your side of issue well and with an interesting analogy. You can put me down for one of your books when available. My curiousity has been peaked as to who was interested in publishing the story though.
(Topic ID: 82869)
Quoted from gambit3113:No way. Gene has not produced anything in years, as far as I can tell. He hasn't worked on anything outside of collecting names for a project that will never happen. And you had to snail mail or sky write him just to do that.
I wanted to believe in Kingpin. I really did. But there was just no way it was actually going to happen. That ship has probably sailed forever.
With emulation making its way into production machines now... I hold a sliver of hope that the old electronic component reasons things done will be a thing of the past. Of course that is only one reason why things to get done but here's hoping
Paradise, NV
Quoted from burningman:I started in the hobby back in 1990...had to take some time off because of a divorce, etc in 2003...and am now back in the game. I have learned a ton from this thread about how things transpired in the pinball community when I was absent.
Maybe a simple question, but something I would like to know. Based on some of the comments it looks like there was a lot of rights/equipment/machines/ etc that IPB had that some may say were wasted. Is this an opprotunity for someone else to pick up these rights and/or equipment and open up more options/parts/etc to the community?
Not wishing ill will on anyone, just wanted to see if this may be a good thing...
A lot of that already happened.
Gene basically bulk bought asserts of Williams and cap com after they shutdown. Several other people got in with bulk deals to when Williams shutdown.
I can't look at the details right now but it was not too long ago say within the last two years I think it was planetary Pinball that announced they have bought much of the assets gene had been sitting on. Someone will correct me for sure on that one 
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Hoarders find it incredibly hard to part with things they own - from the mundane to the ridiculous! Nearly all the pinball hoarders I have met have stored games in awful conditions so their prized possessions just rot away.
I don't think Gene is a hoarder. I just think he is allergic to selling anything below retail, and he's willing to sit on stuff as long as it takes.
I like Gene. He's an interesting guy. But it would be easier to get blood from a turnip than get the better of him in a business deal. The last time i saw him, I pre-ordered some playfield glass that he sold out from under me before I could pick it up.
Quoted from awarner:Gene could actually claim that he had the largest collection of pinball machines in the world. I think it was over 1600 at one point. Most were non-playable, but he could honestly make that claim.
Quoted from Rarehero:What brings more joy? A small collection of functioning machines you can enjoy, or a huge collection that's just a massive burden but impresses a few collector nerds?
Greg, the problem is that you are talking logically. Obsessive hoarding can actually be a mental disorder, so logic doesn't play a role in their thinking.
Edit: I am not saying whether Gene is or isn't a "hoarder". Don't know the man, so I have no opinion on the subject.
From my interactions and going through his collection Gene was/is not a hoarder. He was/is a collector that had more $$$ than sense for most of us. When I went through the collection you could tell that over the years he just bought it to have it.
I equate it to baseball cards when I was a kid. I was not obsessed with the value but rather the collecting and as soon as I got the one I was looking for I would shove it in the sleeve and start looking for the next, rarely thinking about the one I had just got.
Gene had obviously bought machines just to buy them. Many came home from the auction he got them from, had the legs put on and then just sat there. Never to be plugged in and never to be played. Many still have auction stickers on them, few have EVER been plugged in since he bought them. He had NO idea what games he even owned and in may cases had 2, 3, 4, of the exact same title and NO idea he did. It was like he would buy out an entire auction and then take it home to sit on it forever.
At the end of the day they were poor business people. Horrible at using technology. They had so many parts - they didn't even know how many parts they had. I bet they had 5% of their total parts inventory on their website but if you called them Kim would find the part for you. They also had nothing but family working there. It would have really helped if they would have hired some IT people to help them with inventory and sales (website). I know they had a lot of family issues over the year too that distracted them away from the business. I personally think Gene bought all that parts inventory just to have it and to say he had it. Very similar to his pinball collection. I very much liked dealing with them over the years. I especially liked looking through all of those parts when they had their sale. I spent hours in there.
Quoted from PinballHelp:But it would be easier to get blood from a turnip than get the better of him in a business deal.
it sounds like he got the better of himself in the end...
Quoted from Whysnow:2, 3, 4, of the exact same titl
sounds hoardish
Quoted from viper001:When Wayne was going to build his games it was told that Gene owned the rights to the ball trough design used on MM, as well as the plastic triangles to deflect balls that fall back down the 2 plastic ramps so it doesn't always roll SDTM. Did Rick buy those patents, or did they expire, or how is that working for MMr? At one point during that project it was even told that Wayne would be allowed to include the plastic triangles but folks would have to pop rivet them on their games themselves on delivery...
I asked this in the thread where Rick is answering questions and he said that it is worked out for the owners of MMr.
Quoted from scott_freeman:sounds hoardish
nope, more like art collector that is blind to how he was devaluing his art. Hard to explain unless you saw it and talked to him about it.
A hoarder would not have them on their legs so you could see them and somewhat organized. I have seen hoarder collections and they are usually legs off and stacked so you can not even see or walk.
Quoted from Whysnow:nope, more like art collector that is blind to how he was devaluing his art. Hard to explain unless you saw it and talked to him about it.
A hoarder would not have them on their legs so you could see them and somewhat organized. I have seen hoarder collections and they are usually legs off and stacked so you can not even see or walk.
Not sure if you took the full tour - Gene had a ton of pins stacked on shelves....
Quoted from loanguy7171973:Not sure if you took the full tour - Gene had a ton of pins stacked on shelves....
Yeah, I know there were some areas with stacked wood chipper stuff.
He really is an odd duck. Either way, it was cool to get a glimpse into his very odd world.
Quoted from viper001:An argument could be made that someone with commercial amusement machines in their basement instead of on location where they can be publicly enjoyed is a hoarder. The coin doors on the front are a clear indication that earning money for an operator is what they are intended for.
Yes, you could argue that, if pinball could profit, or even break even (believe me, I've thought about it many times).
Price of pinball + maintenance + time + parts + insurance + local village license fees + federal license fees = loss
It's not coincidence most older pinballs ended up in the hands of home collectors, routers got out when they stopped making any money. Nearly every pinball venue in chicago with multiple pins is either doing an all or nothing unlimited day pass, or they're selling you high profit margin beer and the pinball is just there to lure you in.
Quoted from Whysnow:Yeah, I know there were some areas with stacked wood chipper stuff.
He really is an odd duck. Either way, it was cool to get a glimpse into his very odd world.
I agree - I was blown away when I took the tour - he took great pride in showing off everything in his house and buildings. I really enjoyed playing his BBB and seeing those Wizard Block play fields.
Dude, I don't think you've been in this hobby long enough to have seen Gene's place before he was forced to start selling some of the stuff off... he is definitely a hoarder... He had piles and piles of stuff he accumulated that was just piled. The only reason he doesn't fit the "classic" hoarder was that he was blessed to have enough money to buy lots of space to keep it. If he didn't have the $$$ to buy building after building, it would have been classic hoarder...
Jaz
Quoted from Whysnow:From my interactions and going through his collection Gene was/is not a hoarder. He was/is a collector that had more $$$ than sense for most of us. When I went through the collection you could tell that over the years he just bought it to have it.
I equate it to baseball cards when I was a kid. I was not obsessed with the value but rather the collecting and as soon as I got the one I was looking for I would shove it in the sleeve and start looking for the next, rarely thinking about the one I had just got.
Gene had obviously bought machines just to buy them. Many came home from the auction he got them from, had the legs put on and then just sat there. Never to be plugged in and never to be played. Many still have auction stickers on them, few have EVER been plugged in since he bought them. He had NO idea what games he even owned and in may cases had 2, 3, 4, of the exact same title and NO idea he did. It was like he would buy out an entire auction and then take it home to sit on it forever.
On Tuesday, the bankruptcy by the Cunninghams was converted from Chapter 11 to Chapter 7, meaning that chances to reorganize the business were unlikey and liquidation of assets could move forward.
The largest claims have been filed by First Federal Bank for $587,140; Busey Bank, $431,033 and First Farmers Bank, $159,622.
Quoted from Jazman:The only reason he doesn't fit the "classic" hoarder was that he was blessed to have enough money to buy lots of space to keep it. If he didn't have the $$$ to buy building after building, it would have been classic hoarder...
Was he blessed by the bank's loan's?
Quoted from Jazman:Dude, I don't think you've been in this hobby long enough to have seen Gene's place before he was forced to start selling some of the stuff off... he is definitely a hoarder... He had piles and piles of stuff he accumulated that was just piled. The only reason he doesn't fit the "classic" hoarder was that he was blessed to have enough money to buy lots of space to keep it. If he didn't have the $$$ to buy building after building, it would have been classic hoarder...
The one thing that I would say back to you...
Unlike the classic hoarder who otherwise fits Gene's mold pretty well, Gene was constantly actively trying to sell things. He just thought (like a classic hoarder) does that everything was worth more than it was. However, the fact that he was actively actually attempting to sell a lot of it seems to put him in a category all his own.
I've seen hoarders - my grandfather was definitely one, there were little paths all around his basement and den in his house of just random useless stuff... he was a great guy, I love him like crazy and I blame him in large part for my love of arcade machines, but there was never a real purpose to it. Gene's stuff had purpose, it was just like he was in way over his head... and he liked it.
Quoted from Whysnow:Yeah, I know there were some areas with stacked wood chipper stuff.
He really is an odd duck. Either way, it was cool to get a glimpse into his very odd world.
Another odd duck is Tom Smrt of Shireland fame. Google for stories.
Quoted from Whysnow:He really is an odd duck.
Quoted from MrBally:Another odd duck is...
This hobby is loaded with odd ducks. I see at least a handful of them in this thread alone. I'm sure some would consider me an odd duck. I'm down with that. Normal people suck.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:I don't remember them but I remember the Bearcave guys. Man, those were the days.
Wow it's been at least 15 years since I heard the term "Bearcave"... I remember them. 'Course nowadays that term may mean something different in certain social circles 
I hope everything turns out well for everybody.
And hopefully we get spare parts for our machines for a reasonable price.
Quoted from Ballypinball:IPB goes after Treasurecove for making the art files and Threatens them into paying $7500 in damages.
Well guess what IPB didn't pay Elvira for the license they claimed they had, all this came out when gene made SS playfields.
Shame on them for paying on a threat.
Some legal form of proof would be expected to collect a claim.
Gotta love people that make legal threats......
I almost had a playfield sent to me and then sadly the lockdown, now their email doesn't work with emails bouncing back as failed - sad I found them helpful with parts and looks like I missed out.
Quoted from Manic:Wow it's been at least 15 years since I heard the term "Bearcave"... I remember them. 'Course nowadays that term may mean something different in certain social circles
It meant the same thing back then.
Quoted from phishrace:This hobby is loaded with odd ducks. I see at least a handful of them in this thread alone. I'm sure some would consider me an odd duck. I'm down with that. Normal people suck.
Yeah, odd duck is a good thing in my world.
"All the freaky people make the beauty of the world"
On topic, after meeting Gene the first time and in 2 minutes I knew he was a guy that I would not do business with. It must have run in the whole family with the wheelin/dealin. When I was down at his place last year I wanted to buy a NOS creech pf (NOT a reproduction) I found in the back of a pile of stuff. He wanted over 1k and I passed. He walked away and his son-in-law offered it to me for 3 or 400. (I passed as even though it would have been sweet, it was not the son-in-laws to sell). The whole family was shady from my POV.
Seems this turned into a hoarding thread. My favorite hoarder is Jay Leno. He loves working on his car collection, he shares everything and loves to take them all out for a drive, and every one of his cars works and is road ready. Class act.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:James,
I think you presented your side of issue well and with an interesting analogy. You can put me down for one of your books when available. My curiousity has been peaked as to who was interested in publishing the story though.
We'll chat at the Atlanta Show (if not before at one of the local parties).
Quoted from NYP:Seems this turned into a hoarding thread. My favorite hoarder is Jay Leno. He loves working on his car collection, he shares everything and loves to take them all out for a drive, and every one of his cars works and is road ready. Class act.
Leno is notorious for collecing rare cars, but I would not call him a horder.
Quoted from limelime20:On Tuesday, the bankruptcy by the Cunninghams was converted from Chapter 11 to Chapter 7, meaning that chances to reorganize the business were unlikey and liquidation of assets could move forward.
The largest claims have been filed by First Federal Bank for $587,140; Busey Bank, $431,033 and First Farmers Bank, $159,622.Was he blessed by the bank's loan's?
The business of IPB is not in bankruptcy but it has been basically frozen due to Gene's "inconsistent" filings of asset ownership and financial transactions. That is why the US Attorney filed and forced the Chapter 7. Now the trustee is investigating all his inconsistencies. In his filing of Chapter 11 it appears he claims his pinball collection was worth $20K, even though he had 2 BBB games worth over $20K alone. One the original and one the remake. The flyer he sent out trying to sell just a small portion of his collection for a total of $100,000 was one of the biggest pieces of evidence. All this is public information if you search the bankruptcy court case. The pinball collection was just one part of the "inconsistencies". That and he is suspected of "moving" assets without following the proper procedures. I think this is going to get real ugly for him (and possibly a couple of others).
Quoted from Methos:Leno is notorious for collecing rare cars, but I would not call him a horder.
Agreed, I stand corrected, actually he is probably the opposite of a hoarder, my definition of a true collector.
Quoted from limelime20:On Tuesday, the bankruptcy by the Cunninghams was converted from Chapter 11 to Chapter 7, meaning that chances to reorganize the business were unlikey and liquidation of assets could move forward.
The largest claims have been filed by First Federal Bank for $587,140; Busey Bank, $431,033 and First Farmers Bank, $159,622.Was he blessed by the bank's loan's?
Gene was an investor, businessman, collector. He did a lot of positive things for the Bloomington, IL community. He was well known and well liked by many people down there.
I believe his investments in real estate are what did him in financially. When I took the tour with him a year ago, he showed me strip malls that he had developed and had been taken back by the banks. He also showed me a bunch of houses and apartments that he owned as rental properties. Not in the best neighborhoods. I am pretty sure that he got in during the boom when prices were high. Values in real estate and rental properties have been destroyed by the recession.
Here in the Midwest, it is very difficult to collect rent from any one today unless you have section 8 housing (government is paying).
Quoted from PinballInc:The business of IPB is not in bankruptcy but it has been basically frozen due to Gene's "inconsistent" filings of asset ownership and financial transactions. That is why the US Attorney filed and forced the Chapter 7. Now the trustee is investigating all his inconsistencies. In his filing of Chapter 11 it appears he claims his pinball collection was worth $20K, even though he had 2 BBB games worth over $20K alone. One the original and one the remake. The flyer he sent out trying to sell just a small portion of his collection for a total of $100,000 was one of the biggest pieces of evidence. All this is public information if you search the bankruptcy court case. The pinball collection was just one part of the "inconsistencies". That and he is suspected of "moving" assets without following the proper procedures. I think this is going to get real ugly for him (and possibly a couple of others).
Ouch... Hate to be one of the people who bought a game from his collection recently... That could me the IRS will be looking for who gave him money. Among other agencys
Melbourne, ON
Quoted from catboxer:I will miss their website most of all. So modern and frequently updated!
Looks like the website has been updated slightly - one playfield and one backglass for sale and that's it.
Quoted from lllvjr:Ouch... Hate to be one of the people who bought a game from his collection recently... That could me the IRS will be looking for who gave him money. Among other agencys
I seriously doubt that anyone who bought one or two games (less than 20) will have any issues whatsoever. Gene will most likely not remember the names anyway. Regardless if they are contacted the only information the trustee would most likely want is details of the transaction and if any outstanding balance is due it would be paid to the court and not Gene. I do know one person who purchased machines has been in contacted by the trustee and that is exactly what happened. The trustee made it very clear that the purchase of the games were not an issue and he could keep them. He did own some money for the balance and they simply told him to pay the court the balance.
The ones who may have serious concerns would be ones that may have colluded in possible "hiding" or "moving" or "using" assets since September of 2012 (six months before the chapter 11 filing). Those "large" or "suspicious" activities are very likely being closely scrutinized. If you are contacted I strongly suggest that you fully cooperate as the US attorney and trustee are NOT playing.
Quoted from PinballInc:The ones who may have serious concerns would be ones that may have colluded in possible "hiding" or "moving" or "using" assets since September of 2012 (six months before the chapter 11 filing). Those "large" or "suspicious" activities are very likely being closely scrutinized. If you are contacted I strongly suggest that you fully cooperate as the US attorney and trustee are NOT playing.
IMO if anyone was involved in anything like this they should contact an attorney immediately. They shouldn't wait for the US attorney to call them and they certainly should not discuss it without the help of an attorney.
Quoted from roc-noc:Gene was an investor, businessman, collector. He did a lot of positive things for the Bloomington, IL community. He was well known and well liked by many people down there.
I believe his investments in real estate are what did him in financially. When I took the tour with him a year ago, he showed me strip malls that he had developed and had been taken back by the banks. He also showed me a bunch of houses and apartments that he owned as rental properties. Not in the best neighborhoods. I am pretty sure that he got in during the boom when prices were high. Values in real estate and rental properties have been destroyed by the recession.
Here in the Midwest, it is very difficult to collect rent from any one today unless you have section 8 housing (government is paying).
There is far more to it but you have some of the outline. The real downfall of Gene began when the city of Bloomington began an inspection process and enforcement of a new ordinance of rental property building codes. Almost all of Gene's rental houses failed inspection and kept failing to the point where a large number were condemned and ceased by the city. If you ever saw the inside of those houses they were not fit for a dog but being a college town Gene was able to collect big $$$ from college kids who seemed to enjoy living in wrecks. All that began at the time of the.... I'm getting ahead of myself a bit, the rest will be in the book.
Quoted from michiganpinball:IMO if anyone was involved in anything like this they should contact an attorney immediately. They shouldn't wait for the US attorney to call them and they certainly should not discuss it without the help of an attorney.
Anyone who wants to volunteer information should contact the Trustee Mariann Pogge (yes it is Mariann). Her email is mpogge (at) epitrustee (dot) com
Growing up in BloNo for college and grad school there is NO DOUBT that his real estate investments are where he both made the most and lost the most. Pinball was really still just a hobby for Gene.
Quoted from Whysnow:Growing up in BloNo for college and grad school there is NO DOUBT that his real estate investments are where he both made the most and lost the most. Pinball was really still just a hobby for Gene.
BloNo, LOL....I call it Bloomingidiotown. For those who don't know the city of Normal is adjacent to Bloomington. One of funny things I heard was when Kim made the comment that her cousins went to the Normal schools and she didn't.
Well, if you are going to mess up White Collar is the way to go for sure. I feel like Gene could generate capital if he made a book, movie, or something like that, selling the rights to the story. And at some point...there is going to be one huge sale, right?
Quoted from rommy:Well, if you are going to mess up White Collar is the way to go for sure. I feel like Gene could generate capital if he made a book, movie, or something like that, selling the rights to the story. And at some point...there is going to be one huge sale, right?
probably not too huge. The "good" stuff was well picked over a while ago and anything else is likely well hidden away or 'gifted' to family long ago.
I am only guessing but many assest likely "belong to others" in some way shape or form???
Quoted from PinballInc:The business of IPB is not in bankruptcy but it has been basically frozen due to Gene's "inconsistent" filings of asset ownership and financial transactions. That is why the US Attorney filed and forced the Chapter 7. Now the trustee is investigating all his inconsistencies. In his filing of Chapter 11 it appears he claims his pinball collection was worth $20K, even though he had 2 BBB games worth over $20K alone. One the original and one the remake. The flyer he sent out trying to sell just a small portion of his collection for a total of $100,000 was one of the biggest pieces of evidence. All this is public information if you search the bankruptcy court case. The pinball collection was just one part of the "inconsistencies". That and he is suspected of "moving" assets without following the proper procedures. I think this is going to get real ugly for him (and possibly a couple of others).
Wow, this story sounds like it has a long way to go.
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