Plainfield, IL
How many remember the "first" vendor for IPB's inventory, Pinball Express? That was what Chris Werfel had setup after parts had been inventoried by him along with Tom and Christ Floros.
Brad
(Topic ID: 82869)
Sana'a
I have spent tens of thousands of dollars with Gene and never had any problems.
I'm sure some people have had problems (as they do with any business), and I don't want to trivialize their trauma.
In the times I've talked at length with Gene about Kingpin, he did at one time really believe that he was going to do it.
If you think about it, KP is actually a MUCH less challenging game to build than BBB.
Rather than mess with reverse engineering the ASIC, I think a more modern solution is emulation like MMr......
Quoted from burningman:Maybe a simple question, but something I would like to know. Based on some of the comments it looks like there was a lot of rights/equipment/machines/ etc that IPB had that some may say were wasted. Is this an opprotunity for someone else to pick up these rights and/or equipment and open up more options/parts/etc to the community?
Not wishing ill will on anyone, just wanted to see if this may be a good thing...
THAT'S what I'm hoping for. Someone to buy this stuff and actually make something we all need. Someone with ambition and drive.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:THAT'S what I'm hoping for. Someone to buy this stuff and actually make something we all need. Someone with ambition and drive.
Yes!
Quoted from jar155:He could sell so many more parts if he'd cut his prices just a bit. You think that after lugging them all out to a show that he'd like to at least take some money back.
Exactly....and just the time and effort to pack everything back up. I have to imagine leaving a show with a fraction of what you brought is the goal! Seems like he IS capable of lowering prices. Remember the $50 P2K glass? Granted, you had to pick it up locally (and once again - THANK YOU Borygard for bringing me some! 
) ...but that showed he was capable of slashing prices. Gene is an interesting mystery, that's for sure.
Quoted from Rarehero:Gene is an interesting mystery, that's for sure.
It is an interesting hobby that we all are in.
Quoted from Rarehero:Seems like he IS capable of lowering prices. Remember the $50 P2K glass?
I grabbed a couple of sheets of that glass myself along with a playfield. That brand new P2K glass looked amazing once installed.
Quoted from jar155:I grabbed a couple of sheets of that glass myself along with a playfield. That brand new P2K glass looked amazing once installed.
how did you clean the plastic/ odd residue on it from the shading process?
Quoted from Whysnow:how did you clean the plastic/ odd residue on it from the shading process?
He sold some sheets that were already ready for installation.
Quoted from centerflank:Kingpin, if made, should be this one!
Agreed! You've been munsoned
"You don't deserve to drive a car, you suck!"
Quoted from Rarehero:Gene has always struck me as the ultimate hoarder. When I see him at shows sitting at his table with ALL those parts, he doesn't seem motivated to sell anything
I hate hoarders in every hobby, whether it be pinballs or car enthusiasts (especially those that horde 30 VW buses sitting out in the elements rotting and rusting away on some farm on American Pickers). Every person who collects things should be more honest with themselves. let's say you're 40 years old, and the average lifespan is 80 (or at least that's the age you might still care about pinball) and you own 160 pins in dire need of repair, do you realistically think you're gonna shop a pinball every quarter for the next 40 years?
Quoted from toyotaboy:Agreed! You've been munsoned
"You don't deserve to drive a car, you suck!"I hate hoarders in every hobby, whether it be pinballs or car enthusiasts (especially those that horde 30 VW buses sitting out in the elements rotting and rusting away on some farm on American Pickers). Every person who collects things should be more honest with themselves. let's say you're 40 years old, and the average lifespan is 80 (or at least that's the age you might still care about pinball) and you own 160 pins in dire need of repair, do you honestly think you're gonna shop a pinball every quarter for the next 40 years?
Saw a perfect VW Bus (one piece windshield) yesterday on the Jane Addams Tollway near Schaumburg.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I hate hoarders in every hobby, whether it be pinballs or car enthusiasts (especially those that horde 30 VW buses sitting out in the elements rotting and rusting away on some farm on American Pickers). Every person who collects things should be more honest with themselves. let's say you're 40 years old, and the average lifespan is 80 (or at least that's the age you might still care about pinball) and you own 160 pins in dire need of repair, do you realistically think you're gonna shop a pinball every quarter for the next 40 years?
Bury me in my TZ.
Quoted from Rarehero:... Remember the $50 P2K glass? Granted, you had to pick it up locally (and once again - THANK YOU Borygard for bringing me some! ) ...but that showed he was capable of slashing prices. Gene is an interesting mystery, that's for sure.
Gene had nothing to do with those prices though. It wasn't his sale, it was the guys that bought all the IPB inventory.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com
Quoted from jellikit:How many remember the "first" vendor for IPB's inventory, Pinball Express? That was what Chris Werfel had setup after parts had been inventoried by him along with Tom and Christ Floros.
Brad
...and others helped with the long_ inventory as well including myself and my son David.
-Terry
Quoted from toyotaboy:I hate hoarders in every hobby, whether it be pinballs or car enthusiasts (especially those that horde 30 VW buses sitting out in the elements rotting and rusting away on some farm on American Pickers). Every person who collects things should be more honest with themselves. let's say you're 40 years old, and the average lifespan is 80 (or at least that's the age you might still care about pinball) and you own 160 pins in dire need of repair, do you realistically think you're gonna shop a pinball every quarter for the next 40 years?
An argument could be made that someone with commercial amusement machines in their basement instead of on location where they can be publicly enjoyed is a hoarder. The coin doors on the front are a clear indication that earning money for an operator is what they are intended for.
Quoted from jellikit:How many remember the "first" vendor for IPB's inventory, Pinball Express? That was what Chris Werfel had setup after parts had been inventoried by him along with Tom and Christ Floros.
Brad
I don't remember them but I remember the Bearcave guys. Man, those were the days.
Quoted from TeeJayN:...and others helped with the long_ inventory as well including myself and my son David.
-Terry
Yes, there always seems to be plenty of people willing to help in this hobby, which is something that helps to make the stories even bigger than what people might expect! How is David doing? The last time I talked with him was when he was selling the DE Playboy machine.
Brad
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:I don't remember them but I remember the Bearcave guys. Man, those were the days.
Yes, Chris was working to sell Gene's inventory prior to the Bearcave. And who could forget about them? I tell you what, this book will be quite large when it is done and will have stories from all over the world! 
Brad
Quoted from viper001:An argument could be made that someone with commercial amusement machines in their basement instead of on location where they can be publicly enjoyed is a hoarder. The coin doors on the front are a clear indication that earning money for an operator is what they are intended for.
So are old Video games, Vending machines, Jukes and coin-op washing machines and dryers...........
Quoted from viper001:An argument could be made that someone with commercial amusement machines in their basement instead of on location where they can be publicly enjoyed is a hoarder.
I agree to this point if they are not being maintained and regularly used. Which in my opinion is what defines a hoarder.
Quoted from Borygard:Gene had nothing to do with those prices though. It wasn't his sale, it was the guys that bought all the IPB inventory.
Oh, well that makes way more sense then lol ooooooh, Geeeeene!
Quoted from o-din:I agree to this point if they are not being maintained and regularly used. Which in my opinion is what defines a hoarder.
Hoarders find it incredibly hard to part with things they own - from the mundane to the ridiculous! Nearly all the pinball hoarders I have met have stored games in awful conditions so their prized possessions just rot away.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Nearly all the pinball hoarders I have met have stored games in awful conditions so their prized possessions just rot away.
It's sad. But who knows what is really the source of this condition? A lady up the street from me hoarded newspapers until she basically painted herself into a corner and then couldn't get out when her house caught on fire.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Hoarders find it incredibly hard to part with things they own - from the mundane to the ridiculous! Nearly all the pinball hoarders I have met have stored games in awful conditions so their prized possessions just rot away.
Exactly. What's the point of having stuff if you don't use it or keep it in storage forever. What's the end-game thought process? The reality is, there's only one end-game...you'll die, and stuff will just be stuff. Get out while the gettin's good, hoarders!
Quoted from toyotaboy:I hate hoarders in every hobby,
I tend to feel sorry for them.
Quoted from viper001:commercial amusement machines in their basement
Does this mean I need to dismantle and sell my Log Flume ride. The one next to the fruit cellar.
Quoted from awarner:Gene could actually claim that he had the largest collection of pinball machines in the world. I think it was over 1600 at one point. Most were non-playable, but he could honestly make that claim.
What brings more joy? A small collection of functioning machines you can enjoy, or a huge collection that's just a massive burden but impresses a few collector nerds?
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:THAT'S what I'm hoping for. Someone to buy this stuff and actually make something we all need. Someone with ambition and drive.
+1
Quoted from Rarehero:What brings more joy? A small collection of functioning machines you can enjoy, or a huge collection that's just a massive burden but impresses a few collector nerds?
Sounds like the Hoarders episode with "Randyland".
Quoted from awarner:Scary times in the Bearcave! It sucked when Gene and them had that big fight and BBB was hanging in the balance. TGFT! (Thank God for TOG)
I spent the night with TOG.....but that's another story.
Quoted from awarner:The person that really made the project work was TOG. If you don't know who that is, I can't help you.
This made me curious, so I had to research:
"Fred Fyfe (AKA - TOG) - Engineer at PMI that made sure that the BBB project was a success! I really like Fred a lot, a genuinely nice guy. The name TOG is short for "The Other Guy". Kim Carter couldn't remember his name in a posting on the BBB forum and called him "The Other Guy". I was posting a lot on the BBB forum and abbreviated it to TOG to save time. So he has Kim and I to blame (mostly Kim)."
Quoted from Rarehero:What brings more joy? A small collection of functioning machines you can enjoy, or a huge collection that's just a massive burden but impresses a few collector nerds?
It depends on the person.
Quoted from Rarehero:What brings more joy? A small collection of functioning machines you can enjoy, or a huge collection that's just a massive burden but impresses a few collector nerds?
I don't believe its to impress other most of the time.
Quoted from jar155:Having played Kingpin, it would be hard for me not to jump on a preorder list. The game is a lot of fun.
You mean it's too late now to get in on Kingpin? But Gene had 122 pre-orders and only needed 28 more.
Quoted from Rarehero:What brings more joy? A small collection of functioning machines you can enjoy, or a huge collection that's just a massive burden but impresses a few collector nerds?
If the huge collection is at least kept inside a building (even a leaky building) a case could be made the person in question is attempting to preserve the games and their history. With the car collecting hobby it's not even necessary that they be stored inside, those old junkyards are a priceless source of parts that would never individually be remade. I toured through Gene's collection a while back before he started selling if off and while there were a lot of desirable titles left for dead there were plenty of duds that in all fairness nobody would really want even if they were fixed up and running.
Quoted from Rarehero:Gene has always struck me as the ultimate hoarder. When I see him at shows sitting at his table with ALL those parts, he doesn't seem motivated to sell anything. He seemed perfectly OK with lugging all this stuff across the country and then going home with it. The bad website also attests to this. Then his personal pinball collection...just tons of stuff that he was clearly never going to really do anything with. Does anyone know if he actually enjoyed playing games? Or was it just about the thrill of the hunt & ownership?
Kneel before Zod!
Quoted from Rarehero:What's the point of having stuff if you don't use it or keep it in storage forever.
That is the point I have been trying to get across to my wife ! 
I think it's also unique. Without BBB, I wonder if the MMR would be happening at all?
Having said that, I think that it is a LOT more likely that Kingpin sees the light of day if the rights are no longer in Gene's hands - it's theoretically easier to do Kingpin now then it was!
I feel oddly indifferent about the whole thing I guess.
Quoted from toyotaboy:Agreed! You've been munsoned
"You don't deserve to drive a car, you suck!"I hate hoarders in every hobby, whether it be pinballs or car enthusiasts (especially those that horde 30 VW buses sitting out in the elements rotting and rusting away on some farm on American Pickers). Every person who collects things should be more honest with themselves. let's say you're 40 years old, and the average lifespan is 80 (or at least that's the age you might still care about pinball) and you own 160 pins in dire need of repair, do you realistically think you're gonna shop a pinball every quarter for the next 40 years?
I hear what you are saying. I feel the same way about judgmental people who think they own the hobby and set the rules of how other collectors should behave.
Utrecht
I worked with Gene on BBB and never had any problems with him. I kept my end of our deal, he kept his. He could tell great stories.
I saw first hand why things didn't work, and on some levels still don't. I suggested a very simple and fast way to get Kingpin produced (just reprogram the game code, dots and sound for a different platform), but Gene insisted on hacking the Capcom board set. Else it would not be original. I doubt if anyone would care as long as the game got done. So maybe one day...
I loaned GENE 32 uninque parts for BBB that no one had.. he said he would have them 2 weeks had them 2 months and still has 3 of them including my original manual I sold him all BBB translites for 15.00 each we shook hands in my drive and I would pay him full price for my bbb WHEN I PICKED it up.. I got SCREWED when the time came he said I DIDNT SEND IN MY MONEY?? get real..ANY normal person would have gave me a BBB for the help I gave . I also loaned hin a KING PIN playfield THE ONLY one know AND Gave him a King PIN translite which NO ONE would even sell him.. He himself will admit to this and LAUGH
Quoted from PinballInc:Like or hate Wayne, if it weren't for him the flow of parts starting in 2005-2006 would have never happened. If you were in the hobby before 2005 you will remember that the dark days of pinball parts were between 2000 and 2005.
Do you mean the alliance you guys formed to counter him?
Isn't that like saying we should be grateful for hitler for making the us a superpower?
What was the name you guys came up with again... I was trying to reference that earlier and had forgotten the name. I always liked you and Darren for continuing to push to make licensed reproductions happen
Quoted from flynnibus:Do you mean the alliance you guys formed to counter him?
Isn't that like saying we should be grateful for hitler for making the us a superpower?
What was the name you guys came up with again... I was trying to reference that earlier and had forgotten the name. I always liked you and Darren for continuing to push to make licensed reproductions happen
NAPPA......
Quoted from rommy:What were the dark days of pinball parts? I have only been in for 2 years, and I by typical stuff - bulbs, rubbers, flipper rebuild kit. I have been lucky and not had to replace anything "big". But , in the dark days, could you get those things?
Most art stuff was only being made second hand... Often poorly. People were just happy to get something that was better than what they had.
Complex parts like ramps etc. or just for not being made it was too expensive to start from scratch. Things That could be made just from metal or made if there was a determined supplier but again almost everything was being done by independence except for the core components that could be had from the likes of Pinball resource.
So yeah you could get your flipper parts but if you needed to replace the wall target in the shadow ... Or wanted new cabinet decals or translates or playfields everybody was stuck using whatever NOS parts they could find or recycle
Parting games out was way more common as blown out games from route operators was one of the best supplies of parts
Nowadays we have licensed reproductions we have people making parts from original tooling we had people inventorying parts and we have people even making better than original replacement parts for things like electronic's etc.
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